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Andrew writes “Hi, I have looked into the place-name Qesem and see that its usual interpretation as a Hebrew word is "diviniation", as in casting objects that are interpreting as both meaningful and inspired by supernatural means.

The cave itself was only discovered in 2000 when road construction collapsed its hidden roof, so there is very little chance of a direct continuity relating to the function of the cave before its abandonment some 200 kya. That said I believe in site perpetuation - the idea that the role of a site or location can be carried forward unconsciously by the inhabitants of a place. Thus there has to be an importance in the name.

It would be my suggestion to look into the root of the word beyond Hebrew, in say East Semitic Akkadian, or in West Semitic Phoenician, Canaanite, or Carthaginian. This might provide even even closer idea of its root.”

Hello again Andrew,

The cave was re-discovered in 2000. That has no impact on the name unless someone can prove that it was attributed to the place in modern times. Qesem doesn’t mean ‘cave’ so, unless absolutely no-one knew of that region at any time in the past, I suggest that it is indeed an ancient name applied to more than just that relatively small underground area. I don’t see the logic in the ‘unconscious’ transmission. That might possibly apply to the ‘magical’ qualities of the place but not to the pronunciation of its name. What I do see is the vocal relaying of a name from generation to generation across a vast swathe of territory when the meaning (but not the importance of it) is already long lost.

I had come across the Hebrew ‘divination’, translation of Qesem as used in the biblical texts. It doesn’t detract from the root in Sumerian KE-SEM or KE-EZEM. Divination is also in the interpretation of the night skies and you will be fully aware that it would once have been a major element in the ‘magic’ taking place in that area – whether inside the cave or out. Having translated quite a bit of the earliest Sumerian at this stage, Hebrew is not a language that I primarily consult for similarities. It seemed to me, finding Qesem there, that this was a brilliant example of a name that couldn’t be destroyed. Kurdish qesem, the oath, is a better indicator of the antiquity and spread of the sound.

The root of the word is, as I said, to be found in the earliest form of Sumerian. All the languages you mention above derive from there. They all came after. I don’t think anyone would contest that fact with regard to Akkadian. Sumerian is the root of all the Semitic (SEM once again, from the same root and for the same reasons) languages, of Greek and Latin. See my website for a few interesting examples given in the form of translated Sumerian proverbs based on the transliterations of the Electronic Text Corpus of Sumerian Literature (ETCSL).

[madeleinedaines.com]

I ommitted from my previous message that KI-EZEM is given as ‘locus’ on ePSD (electronic Pennsylvania Sumerian Dictionary), ‘a place where something is situated or occurs’.

Madeleine

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 2075 drew 02-Oct-19 09:33
Re: Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 309 Andrew Collins 02-Oct-19 11:54
Re: Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 292 Alexander4450 02-Oct-19 20:27
Re: Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 284 Andrew Collins 02-Oct-19 22:33
Qesem Cave and swan wing 247 drew 06-Oct-19 03:07
Re: Qesem Cave and swan wing 224 Andrew Collins Author 06-Oct-19 04:50
Re: Qesem Cave and swan wing 269 MDaines 06-Oct-19 07:13
Re: Qesem Cave and swan wing 234 Andrew Collins Author 10-Oct-19 03:05
Qesem KE-SEM 248 MDaines 11-Oct-19 09:03
Re: Qesem KE-SEM 208 Andrew Collins 17-Oct-19 22:42
KE-EZEM the Locus 207 MDaines 18-Oct-19 09:26
Re: Qesem Cave and swan wing 241 drew 08-Oct-19 00:21
Re: Qesem Cave and swan wing 219 Andrew Collins Author 10-Oct-19 03:04
Re: Qesem Cave and swan wing 228 drew 11-Oct-19 00:49
Re: Qesem Cave and swan wing 176 Andrew Collins 17-Oct-19 22:33
Swan wing 236 drew 08-Oct-19 23:27
Re: Swan wing 201 Andrew Collins Author 10-Oct-19 03:06
Re: Swan wing 194 PB Bytes 10-Oct-19 20:24
Re: Swan wing 224 drew 15-Oct-19 06:36
Re: Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 199 seasmith 18-Oct-19 22:47
Re: Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 194 Thanos5150 24-Oct-19 01:57
Re: Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 184 seasmith 24-Oct-19 03:27
Re: Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 238 Thanos5150 24-Oct-19 04:13
Re: Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 177 seasmith 04-Nov-19 00:11
Re: Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 269 Thanos5150 05-Nov-19 02:32
Re: Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 217 Andrew Collins Author 06-Oct-19 04:47
Re: Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 275 drew 03-Oct-19 00:32
Re: Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 208 Andrew Collins Author 06-Oct-19 04:58
Re: Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 231 Susan Doris 05-Oct-19 14:42
Re: Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 228 Andrew Collins Author 06-Oct-19 05:06
Re: Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 227 Susan Doris 06-Oct-19 06:19
Re: Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 224 Greg Little 08-Oct-19 00:17
Re: Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 264 Susan Doris 08-Oct-19 05:19
Re: Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 194 Andrew Collins 17-Oct-19 22:21
Swans and stuff 216 drew 17-Oct-19 00:40
Re: Swans and stuff 209 Andrew Collins 17-Oct-19 22:27
Re: Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 200 Greg Little 20-Oct-19 19:59
Re: Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 191 seasmith 21-Oct-19 03:15
Re: Who influenced the Denisovans...or should that be what? 196 Greg Little 21-Oct-19 10:42


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