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Hello Rebecca

Given this post's proximity to our most recent exchange, where I had asked you to show me the part of your parody essay that you had referred to, so I could take a comparative visual test, I will assume that your reply here to Martin zeroes in on what you were referring to.

So, let me share my impressions, while mentioning that prior to this month I had no idea what an ibex was. If you'd said that it was one of those small boxes that people used to keep on their desks, of clients phone numbers and addresses, I would have believed you.

Another thing, is that I really don't know how this part of this month's discussion has evolved. I've seen mention of ibexes, felines and square butts, but I haven't dug deeper.

Let's start with the image on the right. Given the nature of this discussion, I will answer to that image two ways, as I think that only one way is likely to get much attention, and that is...

1/2 -Does the "feline" carving image on the right look like the corresponding feline silhouette image?

I would say yes, most definitely. While I can't know what the artist was really trying to make, I can say that I am 'completely certain' that the artist wanted to carve a feline. The only thing I can foresee that might change my opinion, is if somebody later shows another animal that also looks quite a bit like the image. That certainly wouldn't rule out the feline interpretation, which would remain a very strong possibility.

2/2 -Here's the likely understated question: Would I consider it reasonable, for a person to say that it is highly, highly unlikely or impossible that the second image is meant to represent a feline? My answer is no in either case. I don't consider them legitimate conclusions.

As for the second image, on the left...

1/2 Does the image on the left look like the corresponding ibex silhouette?

I would say yes, it does quite a bit. The body is in decent proportion. The head and horns are also complementary. On second glance however, I see a problem with the horn angle relative to the head. If the head is looking down, the silhouette's horn would point up, rather than along the back, as one sees in the carving. I can see why this would be grounds for some to say it can't be an ibex. I wouldn't though, because I think the juxtapositioning may be stylistic and/or an attempt to economize the "ibex's" use of space. As for the former, I am reminded of those human hands on the two main stelas. Isn't there quite a bit of such "stylism" at GT? Each such example would further legitimize the possibility that the "ibex's" horns were similarly (stylistically) positioned.

As for the 'square butt', I don't see this is as a problem. In my view - and again, I haven't followed others' feedback - I would say that it is more likely that this area was more about the animals' two hindquarters. Moreover, the animal seems to be in a jumping position - that ram thing - as indicated by the bent front-quarters, in which case we can expect to see a relatively square hindquarter positioning.

That said, the carving on the back legs seem to be less elaborate than the rest of the image, so I can see why some people might not visualize legs in this region of the image.

2/2 Would I consider it reasonable, for a person to say that it is highly, highly unlikely or impossible that the second image is meant to represent an ibex?

I certainly would NOT say it is reasonable to say that this interpretation is impossible. There's enough correspondence to make this interpretation very reasonable, and the question of what seems to be under dispute - the so-called "square butt" - is an arbitrary interpretation, imo, I'm not sure we're looking at a butt, rather than coiled hind legs, or even seated hind legs.

As for this being "highly highly unlikely," at present I would say that this position is still too strong. The carved image looks too much like the ibex silhouette to be dismissed, categorically. Again, however, if others can show other information that somehow supports this interpretation, I would be open. For now though, I would say that this conclusion is too strong, given the overall quality of the match.

The bottom line for me is this: if someone were to say to me, Poster Boy, do you think the carving on the left represents a good approximation of the ibex silhouette? I would say, yes it does. Quite. Could it be something else? Certainly, but I really don't know. For now, I can see why others might say it looks a lot like an ibex, if that's really what the silhouette represents.

To summarize, I really don't know what the background to this point is, and I would imagine that Martin's says the image on the left is an ibex and that you, Rebecca, strongly feel otherwise.

But the more significant point you made, if I followed you correctly, was that a significant proportion of academics disagree with Martin on this point, and perhaps to the degree where they found the ibex interpretation truly unreasonable (?) I would agree that this is a more significant point, in the sense that it relies on the same consensus thinking that Martin relies on in his 'test'. Still, I wonder if this audience is sufficient.

Maybe it would be better to take the test to Reddit, where others can decide, with 'fresh' rather than trained-conditioned eyes, if it really is reasonable OR unreasonable to consider the pairing on the left an acceptable match. If the answer to the second question turns out to be yes, then a perhaps more significant majority thinks that such an interpretation should not be ruled out.

Considering this pairing alone, to the exclusion of all other information, would be most ideal I think. I also think it would be best if BOTH questions are asked.

(Cellphone texting is hard)



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 21-Aug-19 19:57 by Poster Boy.

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Props to Corps 82 Poster Boy 12-Aug-19 17:03
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Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 69 Eddie Larry 15-Aug-19 18:35
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Re: Little stone in the middle of nowhere 76 Poster Boy 15-Aug-19 23:19
Re: Little stone in the middle of nowhere 69 greengirl5 15-Aug-19 23:54
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coming from a casual reader 82 drrayeye 20-Aug-19 14:20
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Re: coming from a casual reader 72 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 20:18
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Re: 280 million years 71 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 22:23
Re: 280 million years 73 greengirl5 21-Aug-19 06:41
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Re: coming from a casual reader 64 drrayeye 20-Aug-19 17:46
Re: coming from a casual reader 70 Poster Boy 20-Aug-19 18:06
Re: coming from a casual reader 76 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 20:33
Re: coming from a casual reader 66 Poster Boy 20-Aug-19 22:29
Re: coming from a casual reader 66 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 22:52
Zodiacal Art & Precession 73 Barbelo 20-Aug-19 22:25
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 89 Rebecca Bradley 18-Aug-19 08:48
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 84 Poster Boy 18-Aug-19 16:38
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 76 Rebecca Bradley 20-Aug-19 07:53
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 71 Susan Doris 20-Aug-19 10:23
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 73 Poster Boy 20-Aug-19 19:36
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 81 Martinsw1 20-Aug-19 08:17
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 79 Rebecca Bradley 20-Aug-19 22:55
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 77 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 23:16
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 89 Rebecca Bradley 22-Aug-19 06:48
The Test? 102 Poster Boy 21-Aug-19 15:59
Re: The Test? 73 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 21:25
Re: The Test? 60 Poster Boy 21-Aug-19 21:58
Re: The Test? 67 Barbelo 21-Aug-19 22:05
Re: The Test? 69 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 22:52
Re: The Test? 83 Rebecca Bradley 22-Aug-19 05:31
Re: The Test? 79 Barbelo 22-Aug-19 05:48
Re: The Test? 76 Poster Boy 22-Aug-19 14:21
Revising... The Test? 95 Poster Boy 22-Aug-19 16:48
animal anatomy lesson #1 96 hendrik dirker 22-Aug-19 19:02
Re: animal anatomy lesson #1 98 Poster Boy 22-Aug-19 19:06
Re: animal anatomy 79 hendrik dirker 24-Aug-19 06:09
Re: animal anatomy 91 Poster Boy 24-Aug-19 16:25
Re: Revising... The Test? 80 Rebecca Bradley 24-Aug-19 07:22
Re: Revising... The Test? 71 Poster Boy 24-Aug-19 15:30
Re: Revising... The Test? 61 Rebecca Bradley 31-Aug-19 06:03
Re: Revising... The Test? 55 Poster Boy 31-Aug-19 17:08
Re: Revising... The Test? 52 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 17:32
Re: Revising... The Test? 57 Poster Boy 31-Aug-19 19:52
Re: Revising... The Test? 61 Rebecca Bradley 01-Sep-19 04:03
Re: Revising... The Test? 51 Poster Boy 01-Sep-19 15:30
Re: Revising... The Test? 52 Eddie Larry 01-Sep-19 15:45
Re: Revising... The Test? 61 Rebecca Bradley 01-Sep-19 04:15
Research design perspective 95 drrayeye 14-Aug-19 22:21
Re: Research design perspective 77 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 22:43
Re: Research design perspective 77 Susan Doris 15-Aug-19 05:01
Re: Research design perspective 88 Martinsw1 15-Aug-19 07:08
Re: Research design perspective 74 Poster Boy 17-Aug-19 15:43
Re: Research design perspective 87 drrayeye 17-Aug-19 17:25
Re: Research design perspective 81 Martinsw1 18-Aug-19 08:00
Re: Research design perspective 76 drrayeye 18-Aug-19 21:42
Re: Research design perspective 79 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:32
Re: Research design perspective 75 Corpuscles 19-Aug-19 22:32
Not Science, No Proof 100 Barbelo 18-Aug-19 22:44
Re: Not Science, No Proof 94 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:35
Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 83 Barbelo 19-Aug-19 11:03
Re: Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 96 Martinsw1 20-Aug-19 08:58
Re: Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 80 Barbelo 20-Aug-19 12:00
Earth orbital antics 96 hendrik dirker 20-Aug-19 18:39
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 130 Martinsw1 11-Aug-19 19:56
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 99 Corpuscles 12-Aug-19 06:12
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individual subjectivity and objective consensus 94 Poster Boy 12-Aug-19 16:59
Re: individual subjectivity and objective consensus 96 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:40
Other thoughts. 88 Poster Boy 13-Aug-19 16:32
Re: Other thoughts. 82 drrayeye 13-Aug-19 17:48
Re: Other thoughts. 85 Poster Boy 13-Aug-19 18:42
Re: Other thoughts. 82 drrayeye 13-Aug-19 19:06
Reading the book 79 greengirl5 13-Aug-19 22:40
Re: Reading the book 79 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 03:11
Re: Other thoughts. 82 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 01:20
Re: Other thoughts. 85 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 02:51
Re: Other thoughts. 78 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 03:35
Re: Other thoughts. 77 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 03:53
Re: Other thoughts. 77 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 17:54
Re: Other thoughts. 74 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 19:02
Re: Other thoughts. 78 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 19:32
Re: Other thoughts. 76 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 20:24
Re: Other thoughts. 91 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 04:49
Re: Other thoughts. 90 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 05:13
Re: Other thoughts. 86 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 14:35
Dr. Sweatman, in case you didn't know... 151 Poster Boy 09-Aug-19 15:56
The Zodiac 110 hendrik dirker 10-Aug-19 12:00
Re: The Zodiac 99 Poster Boy 10-Aug-19 14:58
Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 83 greengirl5 10-Aug-19 23:15
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 82 Poster Boy 10-Aug-19 23:52
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 89 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 00:07
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 87 Poster Boy 11-Aug-19 00:20
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 98 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 00:26
Just been outside to see Scorpius 96 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 11:40
Re: Just been outside to see Scorpius 104 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 12:51
Re: Just been outside to see Scorpius 127 Susan Doris 11-Aug-19 12:53
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 119 Poster Boy 12-Aug-19 14:18
Regarding the wider picture down the line 124 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 16:47
Re: Regarding the wider picture down the line 129 Martinsw1 15-Aug-19 07:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 97 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 23:13
A new question 68 Poster Boy 01-Sep-19 17:25
Re: A new question 392 Rebecca Bradley 02-Sep-19 04:20


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