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Hello Rebecca

Given this post's proximity to our most recent exchange, where I had asked you to show me the part of your parody essay that you had referred to, so I could take a comparative visual test, I will assume that your reply here to Martin zeroes in on what you were referring to.

So, let me share my impressions, while mentioning that prior to this month I had no idea what an ibex was. If you'd said that it was one of those small boxes that people used to keep on their desks, of clients phone numbers and addresses, I would have believed you.

Another thing, is that I really don't know how this part of this month's discussion has evolved. I've seen mention of ibexes, felines and square butts, but I haven't dug deeper.

Let's start with the image on the right. Given the nature of this discussion, I will answer to that image two ways, as I think that only one way is likely to get much attention, and that is...

1/2 -Does the "feline" carving image on the right look like the corresponding feline silhouette image?

I would say yes, most definitely. While I can't know what the artist was really trying to make, I can say that I am 'completely certain' that the artist wanted to carve a feline. The only thing I can foresee that might change my opinion, is if somebody later shows another animal that also looks quite a bit like the image. That certainly wouldn't rule out the feline interpretation, which would remain a very strong possibility.

2/2 -Here's the likely understated question: Would I consider it reasonable, for a person to say that it is highly, highly unlikely or impossible that the second image is meant to represent a feline? My answer is no in either case. I don't consider them legitimate conclusions.

As for the second image, on the left...

1/2 Does the image on the left look like the corresponding ibex silhouette?

I would say yes, it does quite a bit. The body is in decent proportion. The head and horns are also complementary. On second glance however, I see a problem with the horn angle relative to the head. If the head is looking down, the silhouette's horn would point up, rather than along the back, as one sees in the carving. I can see why this would be grounds for some to say it can't be an ibex. I wouldn't though, because I think the juxtapositioning may be stylistic and/or an attempt to economize the "ibex's" use of space. As for the former, I am reminded of those human hands on the two main stelas. Isn't there quite a bit of such "stylism" at GT? Each such example would further legitimize the possibility that the "ibex's" horns were similarly (stylistically) positioned.

As for the 'square butt', I don't see this is as a problem. In my view - and again, I haven't followed others' feedback - I would say that it is more likely that this area was more about the animals' two hindquarters. Moreover, the animal seems to be in a jumping position - that ram thing - as indicated by the bent front-quarters, in which case we can expect to see a relatively square hindquarter positioning.

That said, the carving on the back legs seem to be less elaborate than the rest of the image, so I can see why some people might not visualize legs in this region of the image.

2/2 Would I consider it reasonable, for a person to say that it is highly, highly unlikely or impossible that the second image is meant to represent an ibex?

I certainly would NOT say it is reasonable to say that this interpretation is impossible. There's enough correspondence to make this interpretation very reasonable, and the question of what seems to be under dispute - the so-called "square butt" - is an arbitrary interpretation, imo, I'm not sure we're looking at a butt, rather than coiled hind legs, or even seated hind legs.

As for this being "highly highly unlikely," at present I would say that this position is still too strong. The carved image looks too much like the ibex silhouette to be dismissed, categorically. Again, however, if others can show other information that somehow supports this interpretation, I would be open. For now though, I would say that this conclusion is too strong, given the overall quality of the match.

The bottom line for me is this: if someone were to say to me, Poster Boy, do you think the carving on the left represents a good approximation of the ibex silhouette? I would say, yes it does. Quite. Could it be something else? Certainly, but I really don't know. For now, I can see why others might say it looks a lot like an ibex, if that's really what the silhouette represents.

To summarize, I really don't know what the background to this point is, and I would imagine that Martin's says the image on the left is an ibex and that you, Rebecca, strongly feel otherwise.

But the more significant point you made, if I followed you correctly, was that a significant proportion of academics disagree with Martin on this point, and perhaps to the degree where they found the ibex interpretation truly unreasonable (?) I would agree that this is a more significant point, in the sense that it relies on the same consensus thinking that Martin relies on in his 'test'. Still, I wonder if this audience is sufficient.

Maybe it would be better to take the test to Reddit, where others can decide, with 'fresh' rather than trained-conditioned eyes, if it really is reasonable OR unreasonable to consider the pairing on the left an acceptable match. If the answer to the second question turns out to be yes, then a perhaps more significant majority thinks that such an interpretation should not be ruled out.

Considering this pairing alone, to the exclusion of all other information, would be most ideal I think. I also think it would be best if BOTH questions are asked.

(Cellphone texting is hard)



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 21-Aug-19 19:57 by Poster Boy.

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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 176 Corpuscles 10-Aug-19 22:37
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 176 Poster Boy 10-Aug-19 23:05
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 227 Poster Boy 11-Aug-19 15:56
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 189 Corpuscles 12-Aug-19 05:58
Props to Corps 170 Poster Boy 12-Aug-19 17:03
Great job! 176 drrayeye 12-Aug-19 18:01
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 234 Rebecca Bradley 10-Aug-19 06:05
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 184 Martinsw1 11-Aug-19 19:42
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 178 Poster Boy 11-Aug-19 23:27
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Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 177 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:28
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 178 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 18:18
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 175 Barbelo 13-Aug-19 23:46
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 174 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 00:12
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 177 Barbelo 14-Aug-19 04:03
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 175 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 14:26
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 171 Barbelo 14-Aug-19 21:09
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 164 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 21:55
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 170 Poster Boy 15-Aug-19 03:19
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 169 Barbelo 15-Aug-19 04:28
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 174 Poster Boy 15-Aug-19 14:24
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 181 Eddie Larry 15-Aug-19 15:56
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 167 Poster Boy 15-Aug-19 16:49
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 177 Eddie Larry 15-Aug-19 18:35
The rest of us 194 drrayeye 15-Aug-19 19:28
Little stone in the middle of nowhere 165 greengirl5 15-Aug-19 23:05
Re: Little stone in the middle of nowhere 169 Poster Boy 15-Aug-19 23:19
Re: Little stone in the middle of nowhere 163 greengirl5 15-Aug-19 23:54
Re: Little stone in the middle of nowhere 168 greengirl5 16-Aug-19 00:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 201 Martinsw1 12-Aug-19 09:06
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Re: Your scorpion or your Scorpius is back to front 183 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:30
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 191 Poster Boy 12-Aug-19 14:21
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Re: Constellation, or death-cult? 185 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:44
Re: Constellation, or death-cult? 190 Poster Boy 13-Aug-19 18:46
Re: Constellation, or death-cult? 180 Martinsw1 14-Aug-19 08:40
Re: Constellation, or death-cult? 182 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 14:11
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Re: Lost or last civilisation? 167 greengirl5 15-Aug-19 00:06
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 201 Rebecca Bradley 14-Aug-19 06:56
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 254 Martinsw1 14-Aug-19 08:44
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 174 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 14:09
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 198 Rebecca Bradley 17-Aug-19 06:48
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 189 Martinsw1 17-Aug-19 07:59
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 196 Susan Doris 17-Aug-19 10:21
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 180 Rebecca Bradley 18-Aug-19 07:42
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 197 Martinsw1 18-Aug-19 08:17
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 210 Rebecca Bradley 18-Aug-19 09:08
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 188 Corpuscles 18-Aug-19 22:36
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 198 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:24
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 179 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 12:54
coming from a casual reader 182 drrayeye 20-Aug-19 14:20
Re: coming from a casual reader 170 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 15:57
Re: coming from a casual reader 152 drrayeye 20-Aug-19 17:41
Re: coming from a casual reader 166 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 20:18
280 million years 173 greengirl5 20-Aug-19 21:56
Re: 280 million years 166 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 22:23
Re: 280 million years 167 greengirl5 21-Aug-19 06:41
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Re: coming from a casual gambler 153 Barbelo 20-Aug-19 21:36
Re: coming from a casual gambler 161 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 21:46
Re: coming from a casual reader 156 Eddie Larry 21-Aug-19 00:03
Re: coming from a casual reader 161 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 01:21
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Re: coming from a casual reader 161 Eddie Larry 21-Aug-19 02:23
Re: coming from a casual reader 169 Poster Boy 20-Aug-19 16:32
Re: coming from a casual reader 142 drrayeye 20-Aug-19 17:46
Re: coming from a casual reader 162 Poster Boy 20-Aug-19 18:06
Re: coming from a casual reader 173 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 20:33
Re: coming from a casual reader 163 Poster Boy 20-Aug-19 22:29
Re: coming from a casual reader 162 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 22:52
Zodiacal Art & Precession 166 Barbelo 20-Aug-19 22:25
Re: Zodiacal Art & Precession 160 Poster Boy 21-Aug-19 04:36
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 183 Poster Boy 17-Aug-19 15:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 184 Rebecca Bradley 18-Aug-19 08:48
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 164 Poster Boy 18-Aug-19 16:38
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 165 Rebecca Bradley 20-Aug-19 07:53
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 166 Susan Doris 20-Aug-19 10:23
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 164 Poster Boy 20-Aug-19 19:36
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 171 Martinsw1 20-Aug-19 08:17
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 175 Rebecca Bradley 20-Aug-19 22:55
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 176 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 23:16
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 194 Rebecca Bradley 22-Aug-19 06:48
The Test? 191 Poster Boy 21-Aug-19 15:59
Re: The Test? 168 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 21:25
Re: The Test? 160 Poster Boy 21-Aug-19 21:58
Re: The Test? 164 Barbelo 21-Aug-19 22:05
Re: The Test? 168 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 22:52
Re: The Test? 178 Rebecca Bradley 22-Aug-19 05:31
Re: The Test? 168 Barbelo 22-Aug-19 05:48
Re: The Test? 173 Poster Boy 22-Aug-19 14:21
Revising... The Test? 187 Poster Boy 22-Aug-19 16:48
animal anatomy lesson #1 186 hendrik dirker 22-Aug-19 19:02
Re: animal anatomy lesson #1 193 Poster Boy 22-Aug-19 19:06
Re: animal anatomy 183 hendrik dirker 24-Aug-19 06:09
Re: animal anatomy 191 Poster Boy 24-Aug-19 16:25
Re: Revising... The Test? 174 Rebecca Bradley 24-Aug-19 07:22
Re: Revising... The Test? 161 Poster Boy 24-Aug-19 15:30
Re: Revising... The Test? 155 Rebecca Bradley 31-Aug-19 06:03
Re: Revising... The Test? 159 Poster Boy 31-Aug-19 17:08
Re: Revising... The Test? 149 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 17:32
Re: Revising... The Test? 154 Poster Boy 31-Aug-19 19:52
Re: Revising... The Test? 152 Rebecca Bradley 01-Sep-19 04:03
Re: Revising... The Test? 131 Poster Boy 01-Sep-19 15:30
Re: Revising... The Test? 147 Eddie Larry 01-Sep-19 15:45
Re: Revising... The Test? 155 Rebecca Bradley 01-Sep-19 04:15
Research design perspective 181 drrayeye 14-Aug-19 22:21
Re: Research design perspective 155 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 22:43
Re: Research design perspective 172 Susan Doris 15-Aug-19 05:01
Re: Research design perspective 188 Martinsw1 15-Aug-19 07:08
Re: Research design perspective 169 Poster Boy 17-Aug-19 15:43
Re: Research design perspective 179 drrayeye 17-Aug-19 17:25
Re: Research design perspective 163 Martinsw1 18-Aug-19 08:00
Re: Research design perspective 157 drrayeye 18-Aug-19 21:42
Re: Research design perspective 169 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:32
Re: Research design perspective 168 Corpuscles 19-Aug-19 22:32
Not Science, No Proof 194 Barbelo 18-Aug-19 22:44
Re: Not Science, No Proof 193 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:35
Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 174 Barbelo 19-Aug-19 11:03
Re: Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 192 Martinsw1 20-Aug-19 08:58
Re: Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 174 Barbelo 20-Aug-19 12:00
Earth orbital antics 208 hendrik dirker 20-Aug-19 18:39
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 228 Martinsw1 11-Aug-19 19:56
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 196 Corpuscles 12-Aug-19 06:12
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 215 Rebecca Bradley 12-Aug-19 06:42
individual subjectivity and objective consensus 196 Poster Boy 12-Aug-19 16:59
Re: individual subjectivity and objective consensus 200 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:40
Other thoughts. 186 Poster Boy 13-Aug-19 16:32
Re: Other thoughts. 182 drrayeye 13-Aug-19 17:48
Re: Other thoughts. 179 Poster Boy 13-Aug-19 18:42
Re: Other thoughts. 183 drrayeye 13-Aug-19 19:06
Reading the book 179 greengirl5 13-Aug-19 22:40
Re: Reading the book 176 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 03:11
Re: Other thoughts. 174 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 01:20
Re: Other thoughts. 184 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 02:51
Re: Other thoughts. 177 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 03:35
Re: Other thoughts. 161 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 03:53
Re: Other thoughts. 169 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 17:54
Re: Other thoughts. 170 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 19:02
Re: Other thoughts. 179 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 19:32
Re: Other thoughts. 172 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 20:24
Re: Other thoughts. 186 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 04:49
Re: Other thoughts. 187 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 05:13
Re: Other thoughts. 180 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 14:35
Dr. Sweatman, in case you didn't know... 249 Poster Boy 09-Aug-19 15:56
The Zodiac 200 hendrik dirker 10-Aug-19 12:00
Re: The Zodiac 191 Poster Boy 10-Aug-19 14:58
Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 178 greengirl5 10-Aug-19 23:15
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 171 Poster Boy 10-Aug-19 23:52
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 189 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 00:07
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 178 Poster Boy 11-Aug-19 00:20
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 190 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 00:26
Just been outside to see Scorpius 191 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 11:40
Re: Just been outside to see Scorpius 184 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 12:51
Re: Just been outside to see Scorpius 208 Susan Doris 11-Aug-19 12:53
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 212 Poster Boy 12-Aug-19 14:18
Regarding the wider picture down the line 211 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 16:47
Re: Regarding the wider picture down the line 226 Martinsw1 15-Aug-19 07:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 206 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 23:13
A new question 162 Poster Boy 01-Sep-19 17:25
Re: A new question 529 Rebecca Bradley 02-Sep-19 04:20


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