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Martinsw1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Very likely an ibex. This is because the feline
> was probably used for Cancer in Palaeolithic art
> and Catalhoyuk shrines at least. We also find that
> the ibex was used only either for Gemini or
> Aquarius in all the places we have looked, from GT
> through to Mesopotamia and ancient Egypt. I know
> you think that it looks more like a feline, and
> you are welcome to your opinion - I can easily see
> it both ways. But the statistical case for Pillar
> 43 makes it extremely likely your are wrong.

Thank you for clarifying. Let's have a close look at the wee beastie:



You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But I have to say, that's the sorriest looking ibex I ever did see. For comparison, here are some other felines from Gobekli Tepe: (Note - AFAIK, there are no comparative images of ibexes.)





See
> also the fragment from GT we have discussed
> before. If this fragment also represents the date
> of the YD event, then the 'long-legged' quadruped
> on this fragment probably represents Gemini, and
> these legs are clearly not those of a feline. So
> there is even corroborating evidence at GT that
> Gemini is represented by an ibex, not a feline.

I assume you're talking about this slab from Enclosure D:



Note that only the bottom half of the long-legged quadruped is visible, and yet you are happy to ID it as an ibex, and claim it as corroborating evidence. I count three indefensible leaps of logic in that paragraph. However, I would say that it is very unlikely to be an ibex, on the basis of the shape of the forelegs. In GT iconography, the forelegs of prey/grazing species tend to bend forward and then down, in a kind of S-shape. Check out aurochs, sheep, mouflon, and ass. This is surely the group that would include ibex. Fiercer species, however, eg fox, boar, hyena, and feline, have big toothy grins and forelegs that go straight down and then forward in a V-shape, often with a suggestion of claws. The partial image on the slab fits into the second group, which does not include ibex. Or is all this irrelevant, because it conflicts with your statistical schema?

Details, details. Why do I keep going on about the damn ibex/feline thing? Because you insist that your statistical results empower you to wave away awkward archaeological facts, as irrelevancies. A perfectly recognizable feline can become a sad, headless ibex with a huge square butt, and you're fine with that, because in your mind, stats rule. But, Martin, this is exactly how you debunk yourself. You cannot allow the P43 feline to be itself, because it would set up an irresolvable contradiction with your claims for Catal Huyuk. You will insist that using Western-Lore stick-figures in your ranking table is just fine, because the ancients of Gobekli Tepe used the same Western-lore constellations, as proven by your statistical results based on the ranking table.

I wish you could sit down and have a chat with the poor sods who carved those images all those thousands of years ago; I have a feeling they'd set you straight, after they finished laughing themselves silly.

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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 190 Martinsw1 05-Aug-19 12:54
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 161 Martinsw1 06-Aug-19 09:00
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 107 Martinsw1 08-Aug-19 14:55
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Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 128 Martinsw1 07-Aug-19 14:05
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 116 Martinsw1 07-Aug-19 20:28
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 112 Merrell 08-Aug-19 11:48
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 121 Martinsw1 07-Aug-19 21:28
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 143 Edmond 08-Aug-19 07:42
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 126 Martinsw1 08-Aug-19 14:35
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 113 Barbelo 09-Aug-19 01:15
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 116 Edmond 09-Aug-19 16:51
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 112 Eddie Larry 07-Aug-19 22:52
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 99 Poster Boy 08-Aug-19 20:50
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 173 Susan Doris 05-Aug-19 17:32
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 132 Martinsw1 05-Aug-19 20:23
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 124 Susan Doris 06-Aug-19 05:02
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 133 Edmond 07-Aug-19 13:23
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 133 Martinsw1 07-Aug-19 14:10
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 118 Susan Doris 07-Aug-19 15:07
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 109 Martinsw1 08-Aug-19 07:23
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 136 Merrell 08-Aug-19 08:29
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 98 drrayeye 08-Aug-19 17:27
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 147 Rebecca Bradley 08-Aug-19 15:21
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 124 Poster Boy 08-Aug-19 18:34
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 105 Rebecca Bradley 10-Aug-19 03:44
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 91 Susan Doris 10-Aug-19 05:34
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 94 Rebecca Bradley 10-Aug-19 05:57
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 89 Poster Boy 10-Aug-19 14:45
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 82 Corpuscles 10-Aug-19 22:37
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 84 Poster Boy 10-Aug-19 23:05
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 119 Poster Boy 11-Aug-19 15:56
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 94 Corpuscles 12-Aug-19 05:58
Props to Corps 83 Poster Boy 12-Aug-19 17:03
Great job! 85 drrayeye 12-Aug-19 18:01
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured NONSENSE author for August 2019 128 Corpuscles 09-Aug-19 01:50
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured NONSENSE author for August 2019 107 Susan Doris 09-Aug-19 06:30
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 115 Martinsw1 09-Aug-19 07:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 99 Susan Doris 09-Aug-19 10:01
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 129 Martinsw1 09-Aug-19 10:40
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 87 Susan Doris 09-Aug-19 12:38
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 111 Martinsw1 09-Aug-19 13:07
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 130 unchartedxben 09-Aug-19 16:54
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Fall of a thousand suns 91 greengirl5 10-Aug-19 02:02
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 130 Rebecca Bradley 10-Aug-19 06:05
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 88 Eddie Larry 10-Aug-19 13:20
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 112 Rebecca Bradley 10-Aug-19 15:16
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 90 Martinsw1 11-Aug-19 19:42
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 88 Poster Boy 11-Aug-19 23:27
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 91 Martinsw1 12-Aug-19 08:49
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Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 86 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:28
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 84 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 18:18
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 84 Barbelo 13-Aug-19 23:46
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 83 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 00:12
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 83 Barbelo 14-Aug-19 04:03
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 79 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 14:26
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 79 Barbelo 14-Aug-19 21:09
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 77 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 21:55
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 73 Poster Boy 15-Aug-19 03:19
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 78 Barbelo 15-Aug-19 04:28
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 82 Poster Boy 15-Aug-19 14:24
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 81 Eddie Larry 15-Aug-19 15:56
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 71 Poster Boy 15-Aug-19 16:49
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 71 Eddie Larry 15-Aug-19 18:35
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Re: Little stone in the middle of nowhere 77 Poster Boy 15-Aug-19 23:19
Re: Little stone in the middle of nowhere 70 greengirl5 15-Aug-19 23:54
Re: Little stone in the middle of nowhere 77 greengirl5 16-Aug-19 00:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 104 Martinsw1 12-Aug-19 09:06
Re: Your scorpion or your Scorpius is back to front 145 Edmond 12-Aug-19 10:13
Re: Your scorpion or your Scorpius is back to front 84 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:30
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 102 Poster Boy 12-Aug-19 14:21
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 82 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:33
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Re: Constellation, or death-cult? 98 Poster Boy 13-Aug-19 18:46
Re: Constellation, or death-cult? 84 Martinsw1 14-Aug-19 08:40
Re: Constellation, or death-cult? 86 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 14:11
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Re: Lost or last civilisation? 75 greengirl5 15-Aug-19 00:06
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 99 Rebecca Bradley 12-Aug-19 06:26
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 100 Martinsw1 12-Aug-19 08:56
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 90 Corpuscles 12-Aug-19 23:01
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Re: Planet destruction 83 Corpuscles 13-Aug-19 01:50
Re: Planet destruction 79 Eddie Larry 13-Aug-19 04:09
Re: Planet destruction 70 greengirl5 13-Aug-19 06:11
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 81 Susan Doris 13-Aug-19 05:01
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 90 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:49
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 97 Rebecca Bradley 13-Aug-19 02:47
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 107 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 11:02
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 107 Rebecca Bradley 14-Aug-19 06:56
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 165 Martinsw1 14-Aug-19 08:44
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 87 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 14:09
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 108 Rebecca Bradley 15-Aug-19 04:36
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 95 Corpuscles 15-Aug-19 06:03
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 92 cloister 15-Aug-19 07:50
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 108 Martinsw1 16-Aug-19 08:25
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 86 Poster Boy 16-Aug-19 16:35
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 100 Rebecca Bradley 17-Aug-19 06:48
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 96 Martinsw1 17-Aug-19 07:59
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 98 Susan Doris 17-Aug-19 10:21
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 84 Rebecca Bradley 18-Aug-19 07:42
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 91 Martinsw1 18-Aug-19 08:17
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 108 Rebecca Bradley 18-Aug-19 09:08
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 90 Corpuscles 18-Aug-19 22:36
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 93 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:24
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 83 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 12:54
coming from a casual reader 84 drrayeye 20-Aug-19 14:20
Re: coming from a casual reader 79 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 15:57
Re: coming from a casual reader 70 drrayeye 20-Aug-19 17:41
Re: coming from a casual reader 73 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 20:18
280 million years 74 greengirl5 20-Aug-19 21:56
Re: 280 million years 72 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 22:23
Re: 280 million years 73 greengirl5 21-Aug-19 06:41
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Re: coming from a casual gambler 68 Barbelo 20-Aug-19 21:36
Re: coming from a casual gambler 66 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 21:46
Re: coming from a casual reader 68 Eddie Larry 21-Aug-19 00:03
Re: coming from a casual reader 65 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 01:21
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Re: coming from a casual reader 67 Eddie Larry 21-Aug-19 02:23
Re: coming from a casual reader 79 Poster Boy 20-Aug-19 16:32
Re: coming from a casual reader 64 drrayeye 20-Aug-19 17:46
Re: coming from a casual reader 70 Poster Boy 20-Aug-19 18:06
Re: coming from a casual reader 76 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 20:33
Re: coming from a casual reader 66 Poster Boy 20-Aug-19 22:29
Re: coming from a casual reader 67 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 22:52
Zodiacal Art & Precession 73 Barbelo 20-Aug-19 22:25
Re: Zodiacal Art & Precession 72 Poster Boy 21-Aug-19 04:36
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 92 Poster Boy 17-Aug-19 15:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 89 Rebecca Bradley 18-Aug-19 08:48
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 84 Poster Boy 18-Aug-19 16:38
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 76 Rebecca Bradley 20-Aug-19 07:53
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 71 Susan Doris 20-Aug-19 10:23
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 74 Poster Boy 20-Aug-19 19:36
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 81 Martinsw1 20-Aug-19 08:17
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 79 Rebecca Bradley 20-Aug-19 22:55
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 77 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 23:16
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 89 Rebecca Bradley 22-Aug-19 06:48
The Test? 103 Poster Boy 21-Aug-19 15:59
Re: The Test? 73 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 21:25
Re: The Test? 61 Poster Boy 21-Aug-19 21:58
Re: The Test? 67 Barbelo 21-Aug-19 22:05
Re: The Test? 70 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 22:52
Re: The Test? 83 Rebecca Bradley 22-Aug-19 05:31
Re: The Test? 79 Barbelo 22-Aug-19 05:48
Re: The Test? 76 Poster Boy 22-Aug-19 14:21
Revising... The Test? 95 Poster Boy 22-Aug-19 16:48
animal anatomy lesson #1 96 hendrik dirker 22-Aug-19 19:02
Re: animal anatomy lesson #1 99 Poster Boy 22-Aug-19 19:06
Re: animal anatomy 79 hendrik dirker 24-Aug-19 06:09
Re: animal anatomy 91 Poster Boy 24-Aug-19 16:25
Re: Revising... The Test? 80 Rebecca Bradley 24-Aug-19 07:22
Re: Revising... The Test? 72 Poster Boy 24-Aug-19 15:30
Re: Revising... The Test? 61 Rebecca Bradley 31-Aug-19 06:03
Re: Revising... The Test? 55 Poster Boy 31-Aug-19 17:08
Re: Revising... The Test? 52 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 17:32
Re: Revising... The Test? 57 Poster Boy 31-Aug-19 19:52
Re: Revising... The Test? 61 Rebecca Bradley 01-Sep-19 04:03
Re: Revising... The Test? 51 Poster Boy 01-Sep-19 15:30
Re: Revising... The Test? 52 Eddie Larry 01-Sep-19 15:45
Re: Revising... The Test? 61 Rebecca Bradley 01-Sep-19 04:15
Research design perspective 95 drrayeye 14-Aug-19 22:21
Re: Research design perspective 77 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 22:43
Re: Research design perspective 77 Susan Doris 15-Aug-19 05:01
Re: Research design perspective 88 Martinsw1 15-Aug-19 07:08
Re: Research design perspective 74 Poster Boy 17-Aug-19 15:43
Re: Research design perspective 87 drrayeye 17-Aug-19 17:25
Re: Research design perspective 81 Martinsw1 18-Aug-19 08:00
Re: Research design perspective 76 drrayeye 18-Aug-19 21:42
Re: Research design perspective 79 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:32
Re: Research design perspective 77 Corpuscles 19-Aug-19 22:32
Not Science, No Proof 100 Barbelo 18-Aug-19 22:44
Re: Not Science, No Proof 94 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:35
Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 84 Barbelo 19-Aug-19 11:03
Re: Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 96 Martinsw1 20-Aug-19 08:58
Re: Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 81 Barbelo 20-Aug-19 12:00
Earth orbital antics 96 hendrik dirker 20-Aug-19 18:39
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 130 Martinsw1 11-Aug-19 19:56
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 99 Corpuscles 12-Aug-19 06:12
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 111 Rebecca Bradley 12-Aug-19 06:42
individual subjectivity and objective consensus 94 Poster Boy 12-Aug-19 16:59
Re: individual subjectivity and objective consensus 96 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:40
Other thoughts. 89 Poster Boy 13-Aug-19 16:32
Re: Other thoughts. 82 drrayeye 13-Aug-19 17:48
Re: Other thoughts. 85 Poster Boy 13-Aug-19 18:42
Re: Other thoughts. 82 drrayeye 13-Aug-19 19:06
Reading the book 80 greengirl5 13-Aug-19 22:40
Re: Reading the book 81 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 03:11
Re: Other thoughts. 82 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 01:20
Re: Other thoughts. 85 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 02:51
Re: Other thoughts. 79 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 03:35
Re: Other thoughts. 77 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 03:53
Re: Other thoughts. 78 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 17:54
Re: Other thoughts. 74 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 19:02
Re: Other thoughts. 78 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 19:32
Re: Other thoughts. 76 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 20:24
Re: Other thoughts. 92 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 04:49
Re: Other thoughts. 91 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 05:13
Re: Other thoughts. 86 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 14:35
Dr. Sweatman, in case you didn't know... 152 Poster Boy 09-Aug-19 15:56
The Zodiac 110 hendrik dirker 10-Aug-19 12:00
Re: The Zodiac 99 Poster Boy 10-Aug-19 14:58
Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 84 greengirl5 10-Aug-19 23:15
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 82 Poster Boy 10-Aug-19 23:52
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 89 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 00:07
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 87 Poster Boy 11-Aug-19 00:20
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 98 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 00:26
Just been outside to see Scorpius 96 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 11:40
Re: Just been outside to see Scorpius 104 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 12:51
Re: Just been outside to see Scorpius 127 Susan Doris 11-Aug-19 12:53
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 119 Poster Boy 12-Aug-19 14:18
Regarding the wider picture down the line 124 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 16:47
Re: Regarding the wider picture down the line 130 Martinsw1 15-Aug-19 07:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 97 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 23:13
A new question 69 Poster Boy 01-Sep-19 17:25
Re: A new question 394 Rebecca Bradley 02-Sep-19 04:20


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