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Amazing, Martin. You really do seem to believe that statistical magic can turn a feline into an ibex, a fox into an aurochs (Pillar 38) or a dog/wolf (Pillar 43). In fact, your input is not merely subjective – it is wrong. And if your input is wrong, you are in GIGO territory.

Look closely at what is probably the most significant example, your “ibex.” Note that what you call “horns” is actually located on its rear end — it’s a tail. At the other end, which you regard as the ibex’s hindquarters, is a square muzzle with a deep vertical line for the teeth and a couple of snarl lines, attributes which are shared by the other feline images at Gobekli Tepe. It is safe to say this is a feline, not an ibex.

This is not a trivial point. You identify your ibex as Gemini, and it is integral to your date-stamp for Pillar 43. You explicitly link the GT felines with the Catal Huyuk leopards, assigned to Cancer, an integral part of your solstice/equinox claim for CH. This introduces a fatal contradiction. If you were correct about the GT date-stamp, then the feline would necessarily be Gemini, and your solstice/equinox proposal for CH would fall apart. If you were correct about the constellations at CH, then the feline would necessarily be Cancer, and the date-stamp for Gobekli Tepe would fall apart. Do you not see the problem here?

The point about stick-figures is not trivial or irrelevant, either. Let’s demonstrate using Gemini again. You first calculated the winter-solstice constellation for your target date. You then looked at the image in the target position on Pillar 43, the ibex (actually a feline), and compared it to the Stellarium stick-figure: “Gemini at sunset can be interpreted as a standing quadruped.” Your matching methodology really was that simple, crude, and vulnerable to confirmation bias. (I reproduced it faithfully in my parody paper.) But go back to Stellarium and have a look at that section of sky with the 20th century stick-figures turned off: do you see a standing quadruped? Or a feline, for that matter?

And while you're at it, have a look at other traditions in the Starlore section, to see other ways that patch of sky has been visualized. Clearly, there are a number of ways to connect those dots. Do you have any basis for thinking the people of Gobekli Tepe connected them in a way that supports your ranking table?

Indeed, you insist that GT used Western Lore constellations because of your statistical results; but your statistical results were derived using Western Lore constellations, in the form of stick-figure visualizations of very recent vintage. That is circular reasoning.

So your ranking table suffers from significantly misidentified and/or replicated images, a naïve use of Stellarium stick-figures, and circular reasoning. It has been pointed out to you repeatedly, by myself and others, that your statistical test is riddled with errors and divorced from the archaeological realities — but you apparently regard your stats as a higher truth. Now, there’s religion for you.

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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 349 Martinsw1 06-Aug-19 09:00
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 287 cloister 07-Aug-19 10:54
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 280 Martinsw1 08-Aug-19 14:55
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 380 Edmond 06-Aug-19 19:51
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 308 Martinsw1 07-Aug-19 05:51
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 383 Edmond 07-Aug-19 08:48
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 302 Martinsw1 07-Aug-19 14:05
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 297 Martinsw1 07-Aug-19 20:28
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 282 Merrell 08-Aug-19 11:48
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 299 Martinsw1 07-Aug-19 21:28
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 317 Edmond 08-Aug-19 07:42
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 291 Martinsw1 08-Aug-19 14:35
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 285 Barbelo 09-Aug-19 01:15
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 293 Edmond 09-Aug-19 16:51
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 284 Eddie Larry 07-Aug-19 22:52
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 261 Poster Boy 08-Aug-19 20:50
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 356 Susan Doris 05-Aug-19 17:32
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 302 Martinsw1 05-Aug-19 20:23
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 287 Susan Doris 06-Aug-19 05:02
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 302 Edmond 07-Aug-19 13:23
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 308 Martinsw1 07-Aug-19 14:10
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 278 Susan Doris 07-Aug-19 15:07
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 288 drrayeye 08-Aug-19 04:15
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 274 Martinsw1 08-Aug-19 07:23
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 312 Merrell 08-Aug-19 08:29
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 265 drrayeye 08-Aug-19 17:27
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 314 Rebecca Bradley 08-Aug-19 15:21
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 298 Poster Boy 08-Aug-19 18:34
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 276 Rebecca Bradley 10-Aug-19 03:44
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 245 Susan Doris 10-Aug-19 05:34
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 266 Rebecca Bradley 10-Aug-19 05:57
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 257 Poster Boy 10-Aug-19 14:45
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 248 Corpuscles 10-Aug-19 22:37
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 249 Poster Boy 10-Aug-19 23:05
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 307 Poster Boy 11-Aug-19 15:56
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 262 Corpuscles 12-Aug-19 05:58
Props to Corps 240 Poster Boy 12-Aug-19 17:03
Great job! 254 drrayeye 12-Aug-19 18:01
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured NONSENSE author for August 2019 294 Corpuscles 09-Aug-19 01:50
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured NONSENSE author for August 2019 260 Susan Doris 09-Aug-19 06:30
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured NONSENSE author for August 2019 264 Rebecca Bradley 10-Aug-19 03:46
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 286 Martinsw1 09-Aug-19 07:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 278 Susan Doris 09-Aug-19 10:01
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 349 Martinsw1 09-Aug-19 10:40
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 264 Susan Doris 09-Aug-19 12:38
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 289 Martinsw1 09-Aug-19 13:07
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 351 unchartedxben 09-Aug-19 16:54
Plenty to talk about for thousands of years after the event! 253 greengirl5 10-Aug-19 01:29
Fall of a thousand suns 252 greengirl5 10-Aug-19 02:02
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 324 Rebecca Bradley 10-Aug-19 06:05
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 253 Eddie Larry 10-Aug-19 13:20
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 268 Rebecca Bradley 10-Aug-19 15:16
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 257 Eddie Larry 11-Aug-19 13:53
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 261 Martinsw1 11-Aug-19 19:42
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 252 Poster Boy 11-Aug-19 23:27
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 260 Martinsw1 12-Aug-19 08:49
A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 257 Barbelo 12-Aug-19 21:16
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 252 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:28
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 250 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 18:18
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 248 Barbelo 13-Aug-19 23:46
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 249 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 00:12
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 249 Barbelo 14-Aug-19 04:03
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 250 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 14:26
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 245 Barbelo 14-Aug-19 21:09
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 238 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 21:55
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 243 Poster Boy 15-Aug-19 03:19
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 254 Barbelo 15-Aug-19 04:28
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 245 Poster Boy 15-Aug-19 14:24
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 258 Eddie Larry 15-Aug-19 15:56
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 242 Poster Boy 15-Aug-19 16:49
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 251 Eddie Larry 15-Aug-19 18:35
The rest of us 277 drrayeye 15-Aug-19 19:28
Little stone in the middle of nowhere 246 greengirl5 15-Aug-19 23:05
Re: Little stone in the middle of nowhere 242 Poster Boy 15-Aug-19 23:19
Re: Little stone in the middle of nowhere 237 greengirl5 15-Aug-19 23:54
Re: Little stone in the middle of nowhere 244 greengirl5 16-Aug-19 00:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 283 Martinsw1 12-Aug-19 09:06
Re: Your scorpion or your Scorpius is back to front 314 Edmond 12-Aug-19 10:13
Re: Your scorpion or your Scorpius is back to front 265 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:30
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 264 Poster Boy 12-Aug-19 14:21
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 257 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:33
Constellation, or death-cult? 270 Merrell 13-Aug-19 06:55
Re: Constellation, or death-cult? 262 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:44
Re: Constellation, or death-cult? 265 Poster Boy 13-Aug-19 18:46
Re: Constellation, or death-cult? 258 Martinsw1 14-Aug-19 08:40
Re: Constellation, or death-cult? 260 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 14:11
Lost or last civilisation? 257 greengirl5 14-Aug-19 22:28
Re: Lost or last civilisation? 245 greengirl5 15-Aug-19 00:06
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 265 Rebecca Bradley 12-Aug-19 06:26
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 277 Martinsw1 12-Aug-19 08:56
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 265 Corpuscles 12-Aug-19 23:01
Planet destruction 246 greengirl5 13-Aug-19 00:04
Re: Planet destruction 249 Corpuscles 13-Aug-19 01:50
Re: Planet destruction 243 Eddie Larry 13-Aug-19 04:09
Re: Planet destruction 247 greengirl5 13-Aug-19 06:11
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 253 Susan Doris 13-Aug-19 05:01
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 283 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:49
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 278 Rebecca Bradley 13-Aug-19 02:47
Composite animals 239 greengirl5 13-Aug-19 06:16
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 287 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 11:02
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 281 Rebecca Bradley 14-Aug-19 06:56
Ibex or Feline? 261 greengirl5 14-Aug-19 08:40
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 331 Martinsw1 14-Aug-19 08:44
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 250 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 14:09
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 277 Rebecca Bradley 15-Aug-19 04:36
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 266 Corpuscles 15-Aug-19 06:03
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 267 cloister 15-Aug-19 07:50
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 286 Martinsw1 16-Aug-19 08:25
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 276 Poster Boy 16-Aug-19 16:35
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 281 Rebecca Bradley 17-Aug-19 06:48
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 266 Martinsw1 17-Aug-19 07:59
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 275 Susan Doris 17-Aug-19 10:21
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 259 Rebecca Bradley 18-Aug-19 07:42
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 289 Martinsw1 18-Aug-19 08:17
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 290 Rebecca Bradley 18-Aug-19 09:08
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 269 Corpuscles 18-Aug-19 22:36
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 278 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:24
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 250 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 12:54
coming from a casual reader 255 drrayeye 20-Aug-19 14:20
Re: coming from a casual reader 242 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 15:57
Re: coming from a casual reader 233 drrayeye 20-Aug-19 17:41
Re: coming from a casual reader 245 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 20:18
280 million years 249 greengirl5 20-Aug-19 21:56
Re: 280 million years 244 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 22:23
Re: 280 million years 243 greengirl5 21-Aug-19 06:41
Support for Mrs. O'Leary's "milk factory" (in song) 217 drrayeye 21-Aug-19 00:55
Re: coming from a casual gambler 227 Barbelo 20-Aug-19 21:36
Re: coming from a casual gambler 237 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 21:46
Re: coming from a casual reader 231 Eddie Larry 21-Aug-19 00:03
Re: coming from a casual reader 229 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 01:21
American joke 239 drrayeye 21-Aug-19 02:11
Re: coming from a casual reader 230 Eddie Larry 21-Aug-19 02:23
Re: coming from a casual reader 235 Poster Boy 20-Aug-19 16:32
Re: coming from a casual reader 213 drrayeye 20-Aug-19 17:46
Re: coming from a casual reader 232 Poster Boy 20-Aug-19 18:06
Re: coming from a casual reader 248 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 20:33
Re: coming from a casual reader 239 Poster Boy 20-Aug-19 22:29
Re: coming from a casual reader 233 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 22:52
Zodiacal Art & Precession 243 Barbelo 20-Aug-19 22:25
Re: Zodiacal Art & Precession 232 Poster Boy 21-Aug-19 04:36
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 254 Poster Boy 17-Aug-19 15:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 259 Rebecca Bradley 18-Aug-19 08:48
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 232 Poster Boy 18-Aug-19 16:38
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 236 Rebecca Bradley 20-Aug-19 07:53
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 241 Susan Doris 20-Aug-19 10:23
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 233 Poster Boy 20-Aug-19 19:36
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 241 Martinsw1 20-Aug-19 08:17
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 247 Rebecca Bradley 20-Aug-19 22:55
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 260 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 23:16
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 281 Rebecca Bradley 22-Aug-19 06:48
The Test? 263 Poster Boy 21-Aug-19 15:59
Re: The Test? 245 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 21:25
Re: The Test? 230 Poster Boy 21-Aug-19 21:58
Re: The Test? 240 Barbelo 21-Aug-19 22:05
Re: The Test? 245 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 22:52
Re: The Test? 248 Rebecca Bradley 22-Aug-19 05:31
Re: The Test? 239 Barbelo 22-Aug-19 05:48
Re: The Test? 251 Poster Boy 22-Aug-19 14:21
Revising... The Test? 259 Poster Boy 22-Aug-19 16:48
animal anatomy lesson #1 260 hendrik dirker 22-Aug-19 19:02
Re: animal anatomy lesson #1 277 Poster Boy 22-Aug-19 19:06
Re: animal anatomy 257 hendrik dirker 24-Aug-19 06:09
Re: animal anatomy 268 Poster Boy 24-Aug-19 16:25
Re: Revising... The Test? 244 Rebecca Bradley 24-Aug-19 07:22
Re: Revising... The Test? 234 Poster Boy 24-Aug-19 15:30
Re: Revising... The Test? 228 Rebecca Bradley 31-Aug-19 06:03
Re: Revising... The Test? 228 Poster Boy 31-Aug-19 17:08
Re: Revising... The Test? 217 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 17:32
Re: Revising... The Test? 222 Poster Boy 31-Aug-19 19:52
Re: Revising... The Test? 222 Rebecca Bradley 01-Sep-19 04:03
Re: Revising... The Test? 202 Poster Boy 01-Sep-19 15:30
Re: Revising... The Test? 225 Eddie Larry 01-Sep-19 15:45
Re: Revising... The Test? 229 Rebecca Bradley 01-Sep-19 04:15
Research design perspective 252 drrayeye 14-Aug-19 22:21
Re: Research design perspective 225 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 22:43
Re: Research design perspective 246 Susan Doris 15-Aug-19 05:01
Re: Research design perspective 266 Martinsw1 15-Aug-19 07:08
Re: Research design perspective 242 Poster Boy 17-Aug-19 15:43
Re: Research design perspective 249 drrayeye 17-Aug-19 17:25
Re: Research design perspective 238 Martinsw1 18-Aug-19 08:00
Re: Research design perspective 227 drrayeye 18-Aug-19 21:42
Re: Research design perspective 248 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:32
Re: Research design perspective 240 Corpuscles 19-Aug-19 22:32
Not Science, No Proof 268 Barbelo 18-Aug-19 22:44
Re: Not Science, No Proof 280 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:35
Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 242 Barbelo 19-Aug-19 11:03
Re: Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 271 Martinsw1 20-Aug-19 08:58
Re: Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 250 Barbelo 20-Aug-19 12:00
Earth orbital antics 283 hendrik dirker 20-Aug-19 18:39
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 304 Martinsw1 11-Aug-19 19:56
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 287 Corpuscles 12-Aug-19 06:12
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 291 Rebecca Bradley 12-Aug-19 06:42
individual subjectivity and objective consensus 276 Poster Boy 12-Aug-19 16:59
Re: individual subjectivity and objective consensus 278 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:40
Other thoughts. 266 Poster Boy 13-Aug-19 16:32
Re: Other thoughts. 256 drrayeye 13-Aug-19 17:48
Re: Other thoughts. 256 Poster Boy 13-Aug-19 18:42
Re: Other thoughts. 262 drrayeye 13-Aug-19 19:06
Reading the book 260 greengirl5 13-Aug-19 22:40
Re: Reading the book 255 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 03:11
Re: Other thoughts. 250 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 01:20
Re: Other thoughts. 262 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 02:51
Re: Other thoughts. 261 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 03:35
Re: Other thoughts. 238 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 03:53
Re: Other thoughts. 246 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 17:54
Re: Other thoughts. 256 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 19:02
Re: Other thoughts. 257 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 19:32
Re: Other thoughts. 246 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 20:24
Re: Other thoughts. 258 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 04:49
Re: Other thoughts. 265 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 05:13
Re: Other thoughts. 256 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 14:35
Dr. Sweatman, in case you didn't know... 326 Poster Boy 09-Aug-19 15:56
The Zodiac 269 hendrik dirker 10-Aug-19 12:00
Re: The Zodiac 273 Poster Boy 10-Aug-19 14:58
Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 250 greengirl5 10-Aug-19 23:15
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 240 Poster Boy 10-Aug-19 23:52
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 264 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 00:07
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 248 Poster Boy 11-Aug-19 00:20
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 260 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 00:26
Just been outside to see Scorpius 261 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 11:40
Re: Just been outside to see Scorpius 256 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 12:51
Re: Just been outside to see Scorpius 277 Susan Doris 11-Aug-19 12:53
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 283 Poster Boy 12-Aug-19 14:18
Regarding the wider picture down the line 279 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 16:47
Re: Regarding the wider picture down the line 308 Martinsw1 15-Aug-19 07:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 297 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 23:13
A new question 233 Poster Boy 01-Sep-19 17:25
Re: A new question 676 Rebecca Bradley 02-Sep-19 04:20


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