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Final thought as I prepare to move on.

It is one thing to believe a carved image looks like one thing or another. That much can never be "debunked".

What can be debunked, is if one says that the interpretation is the right one AND statistically significant.

My guess, for now, is that Martin and his colleague have come up with a fairly reasonable way of framing their interpretation, so that its appearance at GT is -arguably- in a 1 in 100 million level of rarity, or thereabouts.

If they are clear about crunching numbers based on their interpretation, I still have no issue. But if they downplay the latter, or ignore the latter - the relativity if their interpretation -and say only that GT appears as it does against a 1 in 100 million chance expectation, then there is a problem that is debunkable.

The essay you reminded me of, Corpuscles,showed a table which illustrates the greater reality, which is that one already sees multiple interpretations of pillar 43, by serious researchers, with a high degree of knowledge regarding which images might make historical sense.

Four researchers, four differing interpretations.


The only way to end such a Factorial-related impasse, is by imposing consensus order, if that can be done in a legit way. And so, I said that Martin would be fully vindicated if, down the line, we began finding evidence of an alt zodiac that accorded perfectly with his interpretation. We would have to all go along because he would have provided an interface whose existence cannot be denied.

Only then, imo, can we hope to provide a reasonable probability analysis. But the task doesn't end with the imposition of common agreement.

For example, when I say that the 2nd, 3rd and 4th US presidents died on America's birthday, I have imposed common agreement, at least as far as reasonable persons are concerned, since there is so much evidence to support this claim.

And since there are 365 days in a year, it follows that this trifecta will occur about every 300 million years, if the average administration is six years, or every 50 million administrations....

If you think about it, this three-part event had only been possible since the third presidency, and it happened by the 5th administration - this outcome that shouldn't have been expected - according to the chance expectation - until around the 50 millionth presidency. A once-every-300 million years event that actually happened, on America's 55th birthday.

I see no way for anyone to argue that this was not a VERY improbable outcome, which to some will raise legit concerns about the chance interpretation. That would be my "thesis". However, in making such a conclusion I would still take care to comment further on the numbers...

The count I mention, must come down upon further scrutiny. For example, over 300 million years, its probably more likely that a president would be murdered on a July 4th than most other days...

Who knows how many of these kinds of reasonable scenarios we can come up with, upon further reflection? How much the odds will fall depends on further discussion. And so, while we should all agree that three presidents in a row died on July Fourth, we can still expect disagreement on how unlikely that outcome is.

Nonetheless, with the initial level of rarity being set so high, anyone saying that this outcome is normal, or based on subjective bias, etc, is probably going to have a very tall task convincing others of that-unless their audience is married to the notion that this outcome must be due to chance.

Bottom line, and since he hasnt explained himself, for now I'm thinking that Martin went too far, in assigning a 1-100 million number to his interpretation. Worse crimes have surely been committed. If this is indeed an error, I would hope that he owns up to that at some point, so we can focus on the others parts of his work that may expedite our understanding of GT, without being distracted by claims that ought to have been removed.

Speaking of factorials (and in trying to ignore the hazards of writing with a cellphone) , I thought you might like this, Corpuscles...


There are 52! ways to shuffle a deck of cards.

That is 8.0658175... × 1067

Just shuffle a deck of cards and it is likely that you are the first person ever with that particular order.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 13-Aug-19 01:39 by Poster Boy.

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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 281 Martinsw1 08-Aug-19 14:55
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 380 Edmond 06-Aug-19 19:51
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Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 383 Edmond 07-Aug-19 08:48
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 302 Martinsw1 07-Aug-19 14:05
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 297 Martinsw1 07-Aug-19 20:28
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 282 Merrell 08-Aug-19 11:48
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 299 Martinsw1 07-Aug-19 21:28
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 317 Edmond 08-Aug-19 07:42
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 291 Martinsw1 08-Aug-19 14:35
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 285 Barbelo 09-Aug-19 01:15
Re: Sweatman's diluted pseudo archaeo astronomy 293 Edmond 09-Aug-19 16:51
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 284 Eddie Larry 07-Aug-19 22:52
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 261 Poster Boy 08-Aug-19 20:50
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 356 Susan Doris 05-Aug-19 17:32
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 302 Martinsw1 05-Aug-19 20:23
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 287 Susan Doris 06-Aug-19 05:02
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 303 Edmond 07-Aug-19 13:23
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 308 Martinsw1 07-Aug-19 14:10
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 274 Martinsw1 08-Aug-19 07:23
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 265 drrayeye 08-Aug-19 17:27
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 314 Rebecca Bradley 08-Aug-19 15:21
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 298 Poster Boy 08-Aug-19 18:34
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 276 Rebecca Bradley 10-Aug-19 03:44
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 245 Susan Doris 10-Aug-19 05:34
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 266 Rebecca Bradley 10-Aug-19 05:57
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 257 Poster Boy 10-Aug-19 14:45
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 248 Corpuscles 10-Aug-19 22:37
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 249 Poster Boy 10-Aug-19 23:05
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 307 Poster Boy 11-Aug-19 15:56
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 262 Corpuscles 12-Aug-19 05:58
Props to Corps 240 Poster Boy 12-Aug-19 17:03
Great job! 254 drrayeye 12-Aug-19 18:01
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured NONSENSE author for August 2019 294 Corpuscles 09-Aug-19 01:50
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured NONSENSE author for August 2019 260 Susan Doris 09-Aug-19 06:30
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Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 286 Martinsw1 09-Aug-19 07:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 278 Susan Doris 09-Aug-19 10:01
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 350 Martinsw1 09-Aug-19 10:40
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 264 Susan Doris 09-Aug-19 12:38
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 289 Martinsw1 09-Aug-19 13:07
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 351 unchartedxben 09-Aug-19 16:54
Plenty to talk about for thousands of years after the event! 253 greengirl5 10-Aug-19 01:29
Fall of a thousand suns 252 greengirl5 10-Aug-19 02:02
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 324 Rebecca Bradley 10-Aug-19 06:05
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 253 Eddie Larry 10-Aug-19 13:20
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 268 Rebecca Bradley 10-Aug-19 15:16
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 257 Eddie Larry 11-Aug-19 13:53
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 261 Martinsw1 11-Aug-19 19:42
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 252 Poster Boy 11-Aug-19 23:27
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 260 Martinsw1 12-Aug-19 08:49
A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 257 Barbelo 12-Aug-19 21:16
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 252 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:28
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 250 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 18:18
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 248 Barbelo 13-Aug-19 23:46
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 249 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 00:12
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 249 Barbelo 14-Aug-19 04:03
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 250 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 14:26
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 245 Barbelo 14-Aug-19 21:09
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 238 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 21:55
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 243 Poster Boy 15-Aug-19 03:19
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 254 Barbelo 15-Aug-19 04:28
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 245 Poster Boy 15-Aug-19 14:24
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 258 Eddie Larry 15-Aug-19 15:56
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 242 Poster Boy 15-Aug-19 16:49
Re: A Sealed Deal? Of Course You Jest 251 Eddie Larry 15-Aug-19 18:35
The rest of us 277 drrayeye 15-Aug-19 19:28
Little stone in the middle of nowhere 246 greengirl5 15-Aug-19 23:05
Re: Little stone in the middle of nowhere 242 Poster Boy 15-Aug-19 23:19
Re: Little stone in the middle of nowhere 237 greengirl5 15-Aug-19 23:54
Re: Little stone in the middle of nowhere 244 greengirl5 16-Aug-19 00:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 283 Martinsw1 12-Aug-19 09:06
Re: Your scorpion or your Scorpius is back to front 314 Edmond 12-Aug-19 10:13
Re: Your scorpion or your Scorpius is back to front 265 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:30
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 264 Poster Boy 12-Aug-19 14:21
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 257 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:33
Constellation, or death-cult? 270 Merrell 13-Aug-19 06:55
Re: Constellation, or death-cult? 262 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:44
Re: Constellation, or death-cult? 265 Poster Boy 13-Aug-19 18:46
Re: Constellation, or death-cult? 258 Martinsw1 14-Aug-19 08:40
Re: Constellation, or death-cult? 260 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 14:11
Lost or last civilisation? 257 greengirl5 14-Aug-19 22:28
Re: Lost or last civilisation? 245 greengirl5 15-Aug-19 00:06
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 266 Rebecca Bradley 12-Aug-19 06:26
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 277 Martinsw1 12-Aug-19 08:56
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 265 Corpuscles 12-Aug-19 23:01
Planet destruction 246 greengirl5 13-Aug-19 00:04
Re: Planet destruction 249 Corpuscles 13-Aug-19 01:50
Re: Planet destruction 243 Eddie Larry 13-Aug-19 04:09
Re: Planet destruction 247 greengirl5 13-Aug-19 06:11
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 253 Susan Doris 13-Aug-19 05:01
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 283 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:49
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 278 Rebecca Bradley 13-Aug-19 02:47
Composite animals 239 greengirl5 13-Aug-19 06:16
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 287 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 11:02
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 281 Rebecca Bradley 14-Aug-19 06:56
Ibex or Feline? 262 greengirl5 14-Aug-19 08:40
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 331 Martinsw1 14-Aug-19 08:44
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 250 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 14:09
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 277 Rebecca Bradley 15-Aug-19 04:36
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 266 Corpuscles 15-Aug-19 06:03
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 268 cloister 15-Aug-19 07:50
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 286 Martinsw1 16-Aug-19 08:25
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 276 Poster Boy 16-Aug-19 16:35
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 281 Rebecca Bradley 17-Aug-19 06:48
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 266 Martinsw1 17-Aug-19 07:59
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 275 Susan Doris 17-Aug-19 10:21
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 259 Rebecca Bradley 18-Aug-19 07:42
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 289 Martinsw1 18-Aug-19 08:17
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 290 Rebecca Bradley 18-Aug-19 09:08
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 269 Corpuscles 18-Aug-19 22:36
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 278 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:24
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 250 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 12:54
coming from a casual reader 255 drrayeye 20-Aug-19 14:20
Re: coming from a casual reader 242 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 15:57
Re: coming from a casual reader 233 drrayeye 20-Aug-19 17:41
Re: coming from a casual reader 245 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 20:18
280 million years 250 greengirl5 20-Aug-19 21:56
Re: 280 million years 244 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 22:23
Re: 280 million years 243 greengirl5 21-Aug-19 06:41
Support for Mrs. O'Leary's "milk factory" (in song) 218 drrayeye 21-Aug-19 00:55
Re: coming from a casual gambler 227 Barbelo 20-Aug-19 21:36
Re: coming from a casual gambler 237 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 21:46
Re: coming from a casual reader 231 Eddie Larry 21-Aug-19 00:03
Re: coming from a casual reader 229 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 01:21
American joke 240 drrayeye 21-Aug-19 02:11
Re: coming from a casual reader 230 Eddie Larry 21-Aug-19 02:23
Re: coming from a casual reader 235 Poster Boy 20-Aug-19 16:32
Re: coming from a casual reader 214 drrayeye 20-Aug-19 17:46
Re: coming from a casual reader 233 Poster Boy 20-Aug-19 18:06
Re: coming from a casual reader 248 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 20:33
Re: coming from a casual reader 239 Poster Boy 20-Aug-19 22:29
Re: coming from a casual reader 233 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 22:52
Zodiacal Art & Precession 244 Barbelo 20-Aug-19 22:25
Re: Zodiacal Art & Precession 232 Poster Boy 21-Aug-19 04:36
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 254 Poster Boy 17-Aug-19 15:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 259 Rebecca Bradley 18-Aug-19 08:48
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 232 Poster Boy 18-Aug-19 16:38
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 236 Rebecca Bradley 20-Aug-19 07:53
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 241 Susan Doris 20-Aug-19 10:23
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 233 Poster Boy 20-Aug-19 19:36
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 241 Martinsw1 20-Aug-19 08:17
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 247 Rebecca Bradley 20-Aug-19 22:55
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 261 Corpuscles 20-Aug-19 23:16
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 281 Rebecca Bradley 22-Aug-19 06:48
The Test? 263 Poster Boy 21-Aug-19 15:59
Re: The Test? 245 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 21:25
Re: The Test? 230 Poster Boy 21-Aug-19 21:58
Re: The Test? 240 Barbelo 21-Aug-19 22:05
Re: The Test? 245 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 22:52
Re: The Test? 248 Rebecca Bradley 22-Aug-19 05:31
Re: The Test? 239 Barbelo 22-Aug-19 05:48
Re: The Test? 251 Poster Boy 22-Aug-19 14:21
Revising... The Test? 259 Poster Boy 22-Aug-19 16:48
animal anatomy lesson #1 260 hendrik dirker 22-Aug-19 19:02
Re: animal anatomy lesson #1 278 Poster Boy 22-Aug-19 19:06
Re: animal anatomy 257 hendrik dirker 24-Aug-19 06:09
Re: animal anatomy 268 Poster Boy 24-Aug-19 16:25
Re: Revising... The Test? 244 Rebecca Bradley 24-Aug-19 07:22
Re: Revising... The Test? 234 Poster Boy 24-Aug-19 15:30
Re: Revising... The Test? 228 Rebecca Bradley 31-Aug-19 06:03
Re: Revising... The Test? 229 Poster Boy 31-Aug-19 17:08
Re: Revising... The Test? 217 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 17:32
Re: Revising... The Test? 222 Poster Boy 31-Aug-19 19:52
Re: Revising... The Test? 222 Rebecca Bradley 01-Sep-19 04:03
Re: Revising... The Test? 202 Poster Boy 01-Sep-19 15:30
Re: Revising... The Test? 225 Eddie Larry 01-Sep-19 15:45
Re: Revising... The Test? 229 Rebecca Bradley 01-Sep-19 04:15
Research design perspective 252 drrayeye 14-Aug-19 22:21
Re: Research design perspective 225 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 22:43
Re: Research design perspective 246 Susan Doris 15-Aug-19 05:01
Re: Research design perspective 266 Martinsw1 15-Aug-19 07:08
Re: Research design perspective 242 Poster Boy 17-Aug-19 15:43
Re: Research design perspective 249 drrayeye 17-Aug-19 17:25
Re: Research design perspective 238 Martinsw1 18-Aug-19 08:00
Re: Research design perspective 227 drrayeye 18-Aug-19 21:42
Re: Research design perspective 248 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:32
Re: Research design perspective 240 Corpuscles 19-Aug-19 22:32
Not Science, No Proof 268 Barbelo 18-Aug-19 22:44
Re: Not Science, No Proof 281 Martinsw1 19-Aug-19 08:35
Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 242 Barbelo 19-Aug-19 11:03
Re: Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 271 Martinsw1 20-Aug-19 08:58
Re: Pomposity Levels Not Exceeded On This Board 250 Barbelo 20-Aug-19 12:00
Earth orbital antics 284 hendrik dirker 20-Aug-19 18:39
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 304 Martinsw1 11-Aug-19 19:56
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 287 Corpuscles 12-Aug-19 06:12
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 291 Rebecca Bradley 12-Aug-19 06:42
individual subjectivity and objective consensus 276 Poster Boy 12-Aug-19 16:59
Re: individual subjectivity and objective consensus 278 Martinsw1 13-Aug-19 10:40
Other thoughts. 266 Poster Boy 13-Aug-19 16:32
Re: Other thoughts. 256 drrayeye 13-Aug-19 17:48
Re: Other thoughts. 256 Poster Boy 13-Aug-19 18:42
Re: Other thoughts. 262 drrayeye 13-Aug-19 19:06
Reading the book 260 greengirl5 13-Aug-19 22:40
Re: Reading the book 255 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 03:11
Re: Other thoughts. 250 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 01:20
Re: Other thoughts. 262 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 02:51
Re: Other thoughts. 261 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 03:35
Re: Other thoughts. 238 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 03:53
Re: Other thoughts. 246 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 17:54
Re: Other thoughts. 256 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 19:02
Re: Other thoughts. 257 Eddie Larry 14-Aug-19 19:32
Re: Other thoughts. 246 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 20:24
Re: Other thoughts. 258 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 04:49
Re: Other thoughts. 265 Corpuscles 14-Aug-19 05:13
Re: Other thoughts. 256 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 14:35
Dr. Sweatman, in case you didn't know... 327 Poster Boy 09-Aug-19 15:56
The Zodiac 269 hendrik dirker 10-Aug-19 12:00
Re: The Zodiac 273 Poster Boy 10-Aug-19 14:58
Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 250 greengirl5 10-Aug-19 23:15
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 240 Poster Boy 10-Aug-19 23:52
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 264 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 00:07
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 248 Poster Boy 11-Aug-19 00:20
Re: Scorpius, Orions belt, pareidolia 260 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 00:26
Just been outside to see Scorpius 261 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 11:40
Re: Just been outside to see Scorpius 256 greengirl5 11-Aug-19 12:51
Re: Just been outside to see Scorpius 277 Susan Doris 11-Aug-19 12:53
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 283 Poster Boy 12-Aug-19 14:18
Regarding the wider picture down the line 279 Poster Boy 14-Aug-19 16:47
Re: Regarding the wider picture down the line 308 Martinsw1 15-Aug-19 07:14
Re: Welcoming Dr Martin Sweatman our featured author for August 2019 298 Corpuscles 21-Aug-19 23:13
A new question 233 Poster Boy 01-Sep-19 17:25
Re: A new question 680 Rebecca Bradley 02-Sep-19 04:20


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