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drrayeye Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When Descartes tried the
> tear-it-down/build-it-back "naturalistic" approach
> to consciousness, he came to the same conclusion:
> "cogito--ergo sum."
> How does it feel to be supporting Cartesian
> dualism?

Ah, but you're invoking Cartesian dualism as if that's the only metaphysical view of consciousness available. It isn't, and it's a pretty untenable one (remember our discussion about brain damage causing mind damage).

The way I see it, if consciousness is metaphysical, but it isn't a metaphysical object that inhabits a body, what view am I left with? What makes the most sense to me is to conceive of consciousness as an aperture or a lens. Think of the whole Universe as a field of consciousness-in-potential (a deliberately abstract term). That field comes into focus through creatures.

If you remember my bucket-with-holes analogy from earlier... The water in the bucket is the "field". The individuated streams falling through the holes are the "minds". But the minds are not independent entities. They are just the field finding focus. The death of an individual body is just the Universe losing one of its focus points. There's no entity that actually winks out of existence or lifts off the body. When you lose your physical brain, you (the Universe) lose your focusing mechanism in that location.

This is a big concept I'm describing, and I realise it requires much more explaining than these few paragraphs.

Darryl

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Parapsychology and wonderment 34461 Darryl Sloan 03-Jun-19 19:34
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 241 greengirl5 03-Jun-19 23:08
u-tube 224 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 03:54
Re: u-tube 218 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 06:17
Re: u-tube 219 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 19:02
Re: u-tube 213 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 18:58
Re: u-tube 193 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 22:29
Meaningful dreams 219 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 18:47
Re: Meaningful dreams 202 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 22:46
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 213 Poster Boy 04-Jun-19 22:29
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 213 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 23:08
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 203 Eddie Larry 05-Jun-19 01:08
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 215 greengirl5 05-Jun-19 03:15
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 278 Eddie Larry 05-Jun-19 20:51
Who was Jesus? 237 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 11:27
Re: Who was Jesus? 202 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 14:37
Re: Who was Jesus? 237 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 15:49
Re: Who was Jesus? 205 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 22:21
Re: Who was Jesus? 205 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 23:06
Re: Who was Jesus? And who were the Mayans? 206 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 23:40
And who were the Mayans? 209 Poster Boy 07-Jun-19 15:41
Winter solstice 2012 199 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 22:40
Re: Winter solstice 2012 210 Poster Boy 07-Jun-19 23:21
Re: Winter solstice 2012 191 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 23:51
Re: Who was Jesus? 200 Darryl Sloan 08-Jun-19 20:16
Questions 214 drrayeye 08-Jun-19 20:47
Re: Questions 229 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:02
Re: Questions and maybe some answers? 195 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 00:03
Re: Questions and maybe some answers? 195 Darryl Sloan 14-Jun-19 09:28
Good and evil 189 greengirl5 14-Jun-19 22:59
Re: Good and evil 181 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:19
Re: Questions 202 drrayeye 11-Jun-19 07:19
Re: Questions 189 Darryl Sloan 14-Jun-19 09:13
Scientists and Dualism 181 drrayeye 14-Jun-19 16:30
Re: Scientists and Dualism 191 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 12:03
Re: Scientists and Dualism 195 drrayeye 17-Jun-19 16:10
Re: Scientists and Dualism 199 Susan Doris 17-Jun-19 17:25
Consciousness and the perceptual environment 197 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 04:10
Re: Who was Jesus? 209 Poster Boy 08-Jun-19 21:11
Re: Who was Jesus? 205 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:20
A scholarly alternative 216 drrayeye 07-Jun-19 06:46
Re: A scholarly alternative 207 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:09
Re: A scholarly alternative 220 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 21:19
Re: A scholarly alternative 208 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 22:11
Re: A scholarly alternative 229 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 22:21
Re: A scholarly alternative 205 SandyJesse 15-Jun-19 05:14
Re: A scholarly alternative 189 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:23
Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 196 Eddie Larry 17-Jun-19 22:32
Re: Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 200 SandyJesse 18-Jun-19 02:56
Re: Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 190 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 03:03
Re: A scholarly alternative 199 Darryl Sloan 13-Jun-19 11:58
Re: A scholarly alternative 207 Eddie Larry 13-Jun-19 14:04
Re: A scholarly alternative 188 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:28
Re: A scholarly alternative 193 Eddie Larry 17-Jun-19 13:08
Follow me - on Facebook....... 185 greengirl5 17-Jun-19 23:10
Re: Follow me - on Facebook....... 195 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 01:42
After the resurrection...... 196 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 06:02
Re: After the resurrection...... 188 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 13:32
Well said 195 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 04:38
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 211 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:05
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 196 Darryl Sloan 05-Jun-19 14:48
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 202 Poster Boy 05-Jun-19 15:37
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 196 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:55
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 197 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 15:38
au contraire 222 drrayeye 04-Jun-19 23:15
Re: au contraire 198 Darryl Sloan 05-Jun-19 15:05
Re: au contraire 220 drrayeye 05-Jun-19 19:56
Re: au contraire 208 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:08
Re: au contraire 200 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 13:48
Re: au contraire 792 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 15:31
Re: au contraire 208 drrayeye 06-Jun-19 16:11
Re: au contraire 212 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 16:16
Consciousness 197 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 23:27
Our brains 213 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 00:56
Re: Consciousness 198 Darryl Sloan 13-Jun-19 11:50
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 231 Susan Doris 07-Jun-19 06:03
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 258 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 07:47
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 225 Susan Doris 07-Jun-19 07:53
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 212 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 23:59
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 213 Darryl Sloan 08-Jun-19 19:22
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 203 greengirl5 08-Jun-19 22:44
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 205 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 05:23
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 210 SandyJesse 09-Jun-19 06:24
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 218 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 07:19
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 203 greengirl5 09-Jun-19 09:12
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 207 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 10:03
There it is again 193 greengirl5 09-Jun-19 12:07
Re: There it is again 208 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 14:49
You know? 216 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 00:36
Re: You know? 197 Susan Doris 10-Jun-19 10:49
Re: You know? 200 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 13:47
Re: You know? 203 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 00:09
Re: You know? 182 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 21:43
Re: You know? 194 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 21:58
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 221 SandyJesse 10-Jun-19 06:38
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 223 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 09:48
How to make gold 216 greengirl5 15-Jun-19 07:47
Re: How to make gold 191 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:07
Re: How to make gold 218 Susan Doris 17-Jun-19 17:31
Re: How to make gold 183 Darryl Sloan 18-Jun-19 08:15
Re: How to make gold 189 Susan Doris 18-Jun-19 09:41
Re: How to make gold 204 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 13:10
Re: How to make gold 200 Susan Doris 18-Jun-19 13:37
Re: How to make gold 188 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 23:30
Re: How to make gold 185 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 18:09
Re: How to make gold 187 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 23:14
Re: How to make gold 177 Darryl Sloan 20-Jun-19 11:44
The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 185 greengirl5 20-Jun-19 23:32
Re: The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 190 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 09:43
Re: The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 173 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 12:18
Re: How to make gold 192 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 06:18
Re: How to make gold 173 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 12:14
Re: How to make gold 189 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 14:42
Re: How to make gold 194 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 23:30
Re: How to make gold 183 Susan Doris 22-Jun-19 05:14
Re: How to make gold 181 greengirl5 22-Jun-19 06:26
Re: How to make gold 178 Susan Doris 22-Jun-19 07:04
Re: How to make gold 186 greengirl5 22-Jun-19 23:49
Re: How to make gold 173 Darryl Sloan 24-Jun-19 18:25
defying naturalistic explanations 185 drrayeye 24-Jun-19 23:32
Re: defying naturalistic explanations 160 Darryl Sloan 26-Jun-19 21:09
Science vs. speculation 431 drrayeye 26-Jun-19 21:57
Re: How to make gold 174 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 05:57
Great advice to scientists! 176 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 07:24
Re: Great advice to scientists! 172 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 10:07
Re: Great advice to scientists! 186 greengirl5 26-Jun-19 00:25
a very creative scientist shares his insights 169 drrayeye 25-Jun-19 11:50
Re: a very creative scientist shares his insights 190 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 14:00
Re: How to make gold 168 Darryl Sloan 24-Jun-19 18:09
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 194 rulebook54 24-Jun-19 22:35
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 189 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 00:31
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 171 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 06:05
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 174 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 07:11
Big consciousness, little consciousness. 174 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 02:37


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