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drrayeye Wrote:
> When Descartes tried the
> tear-it-down/build-it-back "naturalistic" approach
> to consciousness, he came to the same conclusion:
> "cogito--ergo sum."
> How does it feel to be supporting Cartesian
> dualism?

Ah, but you're invoking Cartesian dualism as if that's the only metaphysical view of consciousness available. It isn't, and it's a pretty untenable one (remember our discussion about brain damage causing mind damage).

The way I see it, if consciousness is metaphysical, but it isn't a metaphysical object that inhabits a body, what view am I left with? What makes the most sense to me is to conceive of consciousness as an aperture or a lens. Think of the whole Universe as a field of consciousness-in-potential (a deliberately abstract term). That field comes into focus through creatures.

If you remember my bucket-with-holes analogy from earlier... The water in the bucket is the "field". The individuated streams falling through the holes are the "minds". But the minds are not independent entities. They are just the field finding focus. The death of an individual body is just the Universe losing one of its focus points. There's no entity that actually winks out of existence or lifts off the body. When you lose your physical brain, you (the Universe) lose your focusing mechanism in that location.

This is a big concept I'm describing, and I realise it requires much more explaining than these few paragraphs.


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Subject Views Written By Posted
Parapsychology and wonderment 35169 Darryl Sloan 03-Jun-19 19:34
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 501 greengirl5 03-Jun-19 23:08
u-tube 491 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 03:54
Re: u-tube 463 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 06:17
Re: u-tube 470 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 19:02
Re: u-tube 460 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 18:58
Re: u-tube 442 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 22:29
Meaningful dreams 456 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 18:47
Re: Meaningful dreams 456 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 22:46
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 463 PB Bytes 04-Jun-19 22:29
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 470 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 23:08
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 456 Eddie Larry 05-Jun-19 01:08
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 469 greengirl5 05-Jun-19 03:15
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 544 Eddie Larry 05-Jun-19 20:51
Who was Jesus? 495 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 11:27
Re: Who was Jesus? 449 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 14:37
Re: Who was Jesus? 496 PB Bytes 06-Jun-19 15:49
Re: Who was Jesus? 461 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 22:21
Re: Who was Jesus? 456 PB Bytes 06-Jun-19 23:06
Re: Who was Jesus? And who were the Mayans? 444 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 23:40
And who were the Mayans? 475 PB Bytes 07-Jun-19 15:41
Winter solstice 2012 456 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 22:40
Re: Winter solstice 2012 463 PB Bytes 07-Jun-19 23:21
Re: Winter solstice 2012 443 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 23:51
Re: Who was Jesus? 451 Darryl Sloan 08-Jun-19 20:16
Questions 469 drrayeye 08-Jun-19 20:47
Re: Questions 492 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:02
Re: Questions and maybe some answers? 447 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 00:03
Re: Questions and maybe some answers? 441 Darryl Sloan 14-Jun-19 09:28
Good and evil 433 greengirl5 14-Jun-19 22:59
Re: Good and evil 429 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:19
Re: Questions 455 drrayeye 11-Jun-19 07:19
Re: Questions 444 Darryl Sloan 14-Jun-19 09:13
Scientists and Dualism 422 drrayeye 14-Jun-19 16:30
Re: Scientists and Dualism 448 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 12:03
Re: Scientists and Dualism 459 drrayeye 17-Jun-19 16:10
Re: Scientists and Dualism 456 Susan Doris 17-Jun-19 17:25
Consciousness and the perceptual environment 431 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 04:10
Re: Who was Jesus? 461 PB Bytes 08-Jun-19 21:11
Re: Who was Jesus? 453 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:20
A scholarly alternative 470 drrayeye 07-Jun-19 06:46
Re: A scholarly alternative 454 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:09
Re: A scholarly alternative 477 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 21:19
Re: A scholarly alternative 454 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 22:11
Re: A scholarly alternative 484 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 22:21
Re: A scholarly alternative 461 SandyJesse 15-Jun-19 05:14
Re: A scholarly alternative 430 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:23
Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 446 Eddie Larry 17-Jun-19 22:32
Re: Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 453 SandyJesse 18-Jun-19 02:56
Re: Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 433 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 03:03
Re: A scholarly alternative 459 Darryl Sloan 13-Jun-19 11:58
Re: A scholarly alternative 448 Eddie Larry 13-Jun-19 14:04
Re: A scholarly alternative 437 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:28
Re: A scholarly alternative 446 Eddie Larry 17-Jun-19 13:08
Follow me - on Facebook....... 427 greengirl5 17-Jun-19 23:10
Re: Follow me - on Facebook....... 444 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 01:42
After the resurrection...... 455 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 06:02
Re: After the resurrection...... 433 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 13:32
Well said 456 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 04:38
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 461 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:05
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 443 Darryl Sloan 05-Jun-19 14:48
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 454 PB Bytes 05-Jun-19 15:37
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 450 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:55
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 453 PB Bytes 06-Jun-19 15:38
au contraire 474 drrayeye 04-Jun-19 23:15
Re: au contraire 438 Darryl Sloan 05-Jun-19 15:05
Re: au contraire 467 drrayeye 05-Jun-19 19:56
Re: au contraire 458 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:08
Re: au contraire 453 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 13:48
Re: au contraire 1047 PB Bytes 06-Jun-19 15:31
Re: au contraire 459 drrayeye 06-Jun-19 16:11
Re: au contraire 476 PB Bytes 06-Jun-19 16:16
Consciousness 458 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 23:27
Our brains 470 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 00:56
Re: Consciousness 457 Darryl Sloan 13-Jun-19 11:50
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 484 Susan Doris 07-Jun-19 06:03
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 517 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 07:47
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 479 Susan Doris 07-Jun-19 07:53
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 460 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 23:59
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 467 Darryl Sloan 08-Jun-19 19:22
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 456 greengirl5 08-Jun-19 22:44
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 459 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 05:23
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 465 SandyJesse 09-Jun-19 06:24
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 482 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 07:19
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 459 greengirl5 09-Jun-19 09:12
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 465 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 10:03
There it is again 449 greengirl5 09-Jun-19 12:07
Re: There it is again 448 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 14:49
You know? 472 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 00:36
Re: You know? 453 Susan Doris 10-Jun-19 10:49
Re: You know? 456 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 13:47
Re: You know? 456 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 00:09
Re: You know? 425 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 21:43
Re: You know? 437 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 21:58
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 473 SandyJesse 10-Jun-19 06:38
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 475 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 09:48
How to make gold 461 greengirl5 15-Jun-19 07:47
Re: How to make gold 440 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:07
Re: How to make gold 465 Susan Doris 17-Jun-19 17:31
Re: How to make gold 429 Darryl Sloan 18-Jun-19 08:15
Re: How to make gold 452 Susan Doris 18-Jun-19 09:41
Re: How to make gold 452 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 13:10
Re: How to make gold 451 Susan Doris 18-Jun-19 13:37
Re: How to make gold 444 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 23:30
Re: How to make gold 449 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 18:09
Re: How to make gold 443 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 23:14
Re: How to make gold 431 Darryl Sloan 20-Jun-19 11:44
The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 432 greengirl5 20-Jun-19 23:32
Re: The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 429 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 09:43
Re: The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 421 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 12:18
Re: How to make gold 433 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 06:18
Re: How to make gold 426 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 12:14
Re: How to make gold 443 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 14:42
Re: How to make gold 440 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 23:30
Re: How to make gold 433 Susan Doris 22-Jun-19 05:14
Re: How to make gold 426 greengirl5 22-Jun-19 06:26
Re: How to make gold 415 Susan Doris 22-Jun-19 07:04
Re: How to make gold 435 greengirl5 22-Jun-19 23:49
Re: How to make gold 420 Darryl Sloan 24-Jun-19 18:25
defying naturalistic explanations 444 drrayeye 24-Jun-19 23:32
Re: defying naturalistic explanations 404 Darryl Sloan 26-Jun-19 21:09
Science vs. speculation 797 drrayeye 26-Jun-19 21:57
Re: How to make gold 423 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 05:57
Great advice to scientists! 438 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 07:24
Re: Great advice to scientists! 413 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 10:07
Re: Great advice to scientists! 433 greengirl5 26-Jun-19 00:25
a very creative scientist shares his insights 430 drrayeye 25-Jun-19 11:50
Re: a very creative scientist shares his insights 426 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 14:00
Re: How to make gold 404 Darryl Sloan 24-Jun-19 18:09
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 431 rulebook54 24-Jun-19 22:35
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 426 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 00:31
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 409 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 06:05
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 410 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 07:11
Big consciousness, little consciousness. 402 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 02:37

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