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You say,

I'm all for the idea that consciousness requires more than a materialist explanation.

The scientist in me demands that "consciousness" have a different material definition--even before one attempts an explanation of anything.

One problem with tying consciousness entirely and only to the material brain is that the brain structures either differentiate developmentally to specific types of environmental targets--or they don't differentiate at all. Some are quite exotic: Hartline's limulus eyes in the horseshoe crab respond to a moving high contrast edge:

[www.semanticscholar.org]

Lettvyn's "bug detector" in frogs:

[www.technologyreview.com]

1. Deny the eye visual stimulation, and the visual cortex dies. Worse, in the case of a monkey raised with eyes covered with bandages from birth, the eye ball had shrunk into the eye socket and fell out when the bandaging was removed.

2. Deny the eye appropriate visual stimulation during development, and the human visual system malfunctions. Deny social interaction and damage gets personal:

[thebrain.mcgill.ca]

3. Cat's receptive fields tune to the visual world (according to many years of single cell recordings of cats by Hubel and Weisel):

[braintour.harvard.edu]

So,

we need to conclude that certain aspect of the world are part of "consciousness." Consciousness must include this real world information in coded form in order for the physical brain to function.

Ray

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Parapsychology and wonderment 34751 Darryl Sloan 03-Jun-19 19:34
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 335 greengirl5 03-Jun-19 23:08
u-tube 318 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 03:54
Re: u-tube 311 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 06:17
Re: u-tube 313 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 19:02
Re: u-tube 304 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 18:58
Re: u-tube 282 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 22:29
Meaningful dreams 306 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 18:47
Re: Meaningful dreams 292 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 22:46
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 299 PB Bytes 04-Jun-19 22:29
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 304 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 23:08
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 292 Eddie Larry 05-Jun-19 01:08
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 306 greengirl5 05-Jun-19 03:15
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 379 Eddie Larry 05-Jun-19 20:51
Who was Jesus? 337 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 11:27
Re: Who was Jesus? 289 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 14:37
Re: Who was Jesus? 327 PB Bytes 06-Jun-19 15:49
Re: Who was Jesus? 300 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 22:21
Re: Who was Jesus? 294 PB Bytes 06-Jun-19 23:06
Re: Who was Jesus? And who were the Mayans? 293 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 23:40
And who were the Mayans? 307 PB Bytes 07-Jun-19 15:41
Winter solstice 2012 290 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 22:40
Re: Winter solstice 2012 303 PB Bytes 07-Jun-19 23:21
Re: Winter solstice 2012 281 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 23:51
Re: Who was Jesus? 290 Darryl Sloan 08-Jun-19 20:16
Questions 310 drrayeye 08-Jun-19 20:47
Re: Questions 327 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:02
Re: Questions and maybe some answers? 281 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 00:03
Re: Questions and maybe some answers? 281 Darryl Sloan 14-Jun-19 09:28
Good and evil 276 greengirl5 14-Jun-19 22:59
Re: Good and evil 269 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:19
Re: Questions 299 drrayeye 11-Jun-19 07:19
Re: Questions 281 Darryl Sloan 14-Jun-19 09:13
Scientists and Dualism 267 drrayeye 14-Jun-19 16:30
Re: Scientists and Dualism 277 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 12:03
Re: Scientists and Dualism 291 drrayeye 17-Jun-19 16:10
Re: Scientists and Dualism 298 Susan Doris 17-Jun-19 17:25
Consciousness and the perceptual environment 284 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 04:10
Re: Who was Jesus? 297 PB Bytes 08-Jun-19 21:11
Re: Who was Jesus? 295 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:20
A scholarly alternative 311 drrayeye 07-Jun-19 06:46
Re: A scholarly alternative 298 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:09
Re: A scholarly alternative 318 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 21:19
Re: A scholarly alternative 296 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 22:11
Re: A scholarly alternative 319 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 22:21
Re: A scholarly alternative 302 SandyJesse 15-Jun-19 05:14
Re: A scholarly alternative 275 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:23
Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 287 Eddie Larry 17-Jun-19 22:32
Re: Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 291 SandyJesse 18-Jun-19 02:56
Re: Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 278 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 03:03
Re: A scholarly alternative 298 Darryl Sloan 13-Jun-19 11:58
Re: A scholarly alternative 293 Eddie Larry 13-Jun-19 14:04
Re: A scholarly alternative 277 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:28
Re: A scholarly alternative 286 Eddie Larry 17-Jun-19 13:08
Follow me - on Facebook....... 273 greengirl5 17-Jun-19 23:10
Re: Follow me - on Facebook....... 286 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 01:42
After the resurrection...... 287 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 06:02
Re: After the resurrection...... 274 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 13:32
Well said 291 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 04:38
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 304 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:05
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 284 Darryl Sloan 05-Jun-19 14:48
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 289 PB Bytes 05-Jun-19 15:37
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 291 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:55
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 289 PB Bytes 06-Jun-19 15:38
au contraire 313 drrayeye 04-Jun-19 23:15
Re: au contraire 283 Darryl Sloan 05-Jun-19 15:05
Re: au contraire 316 drrayeye 05-Jun-19 19:56
Re: au contraire 299 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:08
Re: au contraire 297 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 13:48
Re: au contraire 884 PB Bytes 06-Jun-19 15:31
Re: au contraire 301 drrayeye 06-Jun-19 16:11
Re: au contraire 304 PB Bytes 06-Jun-19 16:16
Consciousness 290 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 23:27
Our brains 310 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 00:56
Re: Consciousness 299 Darryl Sloan 13-Jun-19 11:50
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 324 Susan Doris 07-Jun-19 06:03
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 352 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 07:47
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 324 Susan Doris 07-Jun-19 07:53
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 299 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 23:59
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 304 Darryl Sloan 08-Jun-19 19:22
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 295 greengirl5 08-Jun-19 22:44
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 293 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 05:23
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 305 SandyJesse 09-Jun-19 06:24
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 307 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 07:19
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 295 greengirl5 09-Jun-19 09:12
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 304 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 10:03
There it is again 286 greengirl5 09-Jun-19 12:07
Re: There it is again 297 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 14:49
You know? 310 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 00:36
Re: You know? 287 Susan Doris 10-Jun-19 10:49
Re: You know? 292 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 13:47
Re: You know? 297 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 00:09
Re: You know? 269 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 21:43
Re: You know? 287 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 21:58
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 315 SandyJesse 10-Jun-19 06:38
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 314 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 09:48
How to make gold 306 greengirl5 15-Jun-19 07:47
Re: How to make gold 278 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:07
Re: How to make gold 310 Susan Doris 17-Jun-19 17:31
Re: How to make gold 268 Darryl Sloan 18-Jun-19 08:15
Re: How to make gold 283 Susan Doris 18-Jun-19 09:41
Re: How to make gold 289 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 13:10
Re: How to make gold 291 Susan Doris 18-Jun-19 13:37
Re: How to make gold 278 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 23:30
Re: How to make gold 280 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 18:09
Re: How to make gold 277 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 23:14
Re: How to make gold 265 Darryl Sloan 20-Jun-19 11:44
The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 271 greengirl5 20-Jun-19 23:32
Re: The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 278 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 09:43
Re: The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 262 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 12:18
Re: How to make gold 278 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 06:18
Re: How to make gold 259 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 12:14
Re: How to make gold 279 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 14:42
Re: How to make gold 281 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 23:30
Re: How to make gold 268 Susan Doris 22-Jun-19 05:14
Re: How to make gold 263 greengirl5 22-Jun-19 06:26
Re: How to make gold 260 Susan Doris 22-Jun-19 07:04
Re: How to make gold 274 greengirl5 22-Jun-19 23:49
Re: How to make gold 263 Darryl Sloan 24-Jun-19 18:25
defying naturalistic explanations 277 drrayeye 24-Jun-19 23:32
Re: defying naturalistic explanations 250 Darryl Sloan 26-Jun-19 21:09
Science vs. speculation 574 drrayeye 26-Jun-19 21:57
Re: How to make gold 259 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 05:57
Great advice to scientists! 265 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 07:24
Re: Great advice to scientists! 259 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 10:07
Re: Great advice to scientists! 275 greengirl5 26-Jun-19 00:25
a very creative scientist shares his insights 262 drrayeye 25-Jun-19 11:50
Re: a very creative scientist shares his insights 277 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 14:00
Re: How to make gold 251 Darryl Sloan 24-Jun-19 18:09
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 288 rulebook54 24-Jun-19 22:35
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 279 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 00:31
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 255 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 06:05
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 259 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 07:11
Big consciousness, little consciousness. 256 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 02:37


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