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You say,

I'm all for the idea that consciousness requires more than a materialist explanation.

The scientist in me demands that "consciousness" have a different material definition--even before one attempts an explanation of anything.

One problem with tying consciousness entirely and only to the material brain is that the brain structures either differentiate developmentally to specific types of environmental targets--or they don't differentiate at all. Some are quite exotic: Hartline's limulus eyes in the horseshoe crab respond to a moving high contrast edge:

[www.semanticscholar.org]

Lettvyn's "bug detector" in frogs:

[www.technologyreview.com]

1. Deny the eye visual stimulation, and the visual cortex dies. Worse, in the case of a monkey raised with eyes covered with bandages from birth, the eye ball had shrunk into the eye socket and fell out when the bandaging was removed.

2. Deny the eye appropriate visual stimulation during development, and the human visual system malfunctions. Deny social interaction and damage gets personal:

[thebrain.mcgill.ca]

3. Cat's receptive fields tune to the visual world (according to many years of single cell recordings of cats by Hubel and Weisel):

[braintour.harvard.edu]

So,

we need to conclude that certain aspect of the world are part of "consciousness." Consciousness must include this real world information in coded form in order for the physical brain to function.

Ray

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Parapsychology and wonderment 34159 Darryl Sloan 03-Jun-19 19:34
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 202 greengirl5 03-Jun-19 23:08
u-tube 195 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 03:54
Re: u-tube 186 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 06:17
Re: u-tube 190 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 19:02
Re: u-tube 184 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 18:58
Re: u-tube 159 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 22:29
Meaningful dreams 189 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 18:47
Re: Meaningful dreams 162 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 22:46
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 182 Poster Boy 04-Jun-19 22:29
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 180 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 23:08
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 174 Eddie Larry 05-Jun-19 01:08
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 174 greengirl5 05-Jun-19 03:15
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 241 Eddie Larry 05-Jun-19 20:51
Who was Jesus? 206 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 11:27
Re: Who was Jesus? 172 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 14:37
Re: Who was Jesus? 205 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 15:49
Re: Who was Jesus? 172 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 22:21
Re: Who was Jesus? 174 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 23:06
Re: Who was Jesus? And who were the Mayans? 178 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 23:40
And who were the Mayans? 176 Poster Boy 07-Jun-19 15:41
Winter solstice 2012 169 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 22:40
Re: Winter solstice 2012 169 Poster Boy 07-Jun-19 23:21
Re: Winter solstice 2012 161 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 23:51
Re: Who was Jesus? 167 Darryl Sloan 08-Jun-19 20:16
Questions 183 drrayeye 08-Jun-19 20:47
Re: Questions 196 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:02
Re: Questions and maybe some answers? 163 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 00:03
Re: Questions and maybe some answers? 167 Darryl Sloan 14-Jun-19 09:28
Good and evil 158 greengirl5 14-Jun-19 22:59
Re: Good and evil 152 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:19
Re: Questions 169 drrayeye 11-Jun-19 07:19
Re: Questions 162 Darryl Sloan 14-Jun-19 09:13
Scientists and Dualism 154 drrayeye 14-Jun-19 16:30
Re: Scientists and Dualism 162 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 12:03
Re: Scientists and Dualism 165 drrayeye 17-Jun-19 16:10
Re: Scientists and Dualism 170 Susan Doris 17-Jun-19 17:25
Consciousness and the perceptual environment 156 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 04:10
Re: Who was Jesus? 177 Poster Boy 08-Jun-19 21:11
Re: Who was Jesus? 170 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:20
A scholarly alternative 172 drrayeye 07-Jun-19 06:46
Re: A scholarly alternative 175 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:09
Re: A scholarly alternative 174 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 21:19
Re: A scholarly alternative 167 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 22:11
Re: A scholarly alternative 188 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 22:21
Re: A scholarly alternative 167 SandyJesse 15-Jun-19 05:14
Re: A scholarly alternative 161 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:23
Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 167 Eddie Larry 17-Jun-19 22:32
Re: Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 167 SandyJesse 18-Jun-19 02:56
Re: Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 159 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 03:03
Re: A scholarly alternative 170 Darryl Sloan 13-Jun-19 11:58
Re: A scholarly alternative 178 Eddie Larry 13-Jun-19 14:04
Re: A scholarly alternative 161 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:28
Re: A scholarly alternative 166 Eddie Larry 17-Jun-19 13:08
Follow me - on Facebook....... 159 greengirl5 17-Jun-19 23:10
Re: Follow me - on Facebook....... 168 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 01:42
After the resurrection...... 162 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 06:02
Re: After the resurrection...... 158 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 13:32
Well said 166 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 04:38
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 179 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:05
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 168 Darryl Sloan 05-Jun-19 14:48
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 173 Poster Boy 05-Jun-19 15:37
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 163 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:55
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 169 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 15:38
au contraire 191 drrayeye 04-Jun-19 23:15
Re: au contraire 170 Darryl Sloan 05-Jun-19 15:05
Re: au contraire 187 drrayeye 05-Jun-19 19:56
Re: au contraire 177 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:08
Re: au contraire 167 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 13:48
Re: au contraire 760 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 15:31
Re: au contraire 177 drrayeye 06-Jun-19 16:11
Re: au contraire 178 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 16:16
Consciousness 166 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 23:27
Our brains 181 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 00:56
Re: Consciousness 166 Darryl Sloan 13-Jun-19 11:50
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 187 Susan Doris 07-Jun-19 06:03
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 213 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 07:47
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 183 Susan Doris 07-Jun-19 07:53
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 179 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 23:59
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 178 Darryl Sloan 08-Jun-19 19:22
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 173 greengirl5 08-Jun-19 22:44
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 177 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 05:23
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 180 SandyJesse 09-Jun-19 06:24
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 175 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 07:19
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 171 greengirl5 09-Jun-19 09:12
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 173 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 10:03
There it is again 162 greengirl5 09-Jun-19 12:07
Re: There it is again 177 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 14:49
You know? 182 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 00:36
Re: You know? 167 Susan Doris 10-Jun-19 10:49
Re: You know? 169 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 13:47
Re: You know? 171 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 00:09
Re: You know? 154 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 21:43
Re: You know? 164 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 21:58
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 191 SandyJesse 10-Jun-19 06:38
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 193 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 09:48
How to make gold 187 greengirl5 15-Jun-19 07:47
Re: How to make gold 161 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:07
Re: How to make gold 187 Susan Doris 17-Jun-19 17:31
Re: How to make gold 156 Darryl Sloan 18-Jun-19 08:15
Re: How to make gold 160 Susan Doris 18-Jun-19 09:41
Re: How to make gold 164 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 13:10
Re: How to make gold 167 Susan Doris 18-Jun-19 13:37
Re: How to make gold 158 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 23:30
Re: How to make gold 155 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 18:09
Re: How to make gold 156 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 23:14
Re: How to make gold 150 Darryl Sloan 20-Jun-19 11:44
The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 156 greengirl5 20-Jun-19 23:32
Re: The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 157 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 09:43
Re: The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 144 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 12:18
Re: How to make gold 160 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 06:18
Re: How to make gold 144 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 12:14
Re: How to make gold 160 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 14:42
Re: How to make gold 155 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 23:30
Re: How to make gold 155 Susan Doris 22-Jun-19 05:14
Re: How to make gold 150 greengirl5 22-Jun-19 06:26
Re: How to make gold 151 Susan Doris 22-Jun-19 07:04
Re: How to make gold 158 greengirl5 22-Jun-19 23:49
Re: How to make gold 146 Darryl Sloan 24-Jun-19 18:25
defying naturalistic explanations 152 drrayeye 24-Jun-19 23:32
Re: defying naturalistic explanations 132 Darryl Sloan 26-Jun-19 21:09
Science vs. speculation 391 drrayeye 26-Jun-19 21:57
Re: How to make gold 144 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 05:57
Great advice to scientists! 146 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 07:24
Re: Great advice to scientists! 145 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 10:07
Re: Great advice to scientists! 155 greengirl5 26-Jun-19 00:25
a very creative scientist shares his insights 142 drrayeye 25-Jun-19 11:50
Re: a very creative scientist shares his insights 161 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 14:00
Re: How to make gold 141 Darryl Sloan 24-Jun-19 18:09
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 162 rulebook54 24-Jun-19 22:35
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 158 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 00:31
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 145 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 06:05
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 145 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 07:11
Big consciousness, little consciousness. 144 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 02:37


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