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I will be happy to define the words "spiritual" and "divine". However, these are words which are used in abstract and subtly different manners by many religious faiths, so you should probably direct your frustration more to the world at large than to me. So ... "Spiritual" is an opposing word to "material". We use it as a way of subscribing to the view that reality consists of more than what is merely tangible to creatures. What that hidden aspect consists of varies from belief to belief. Some say there are spirit beings, an astral plane, etc. I have no firm belief in such. I use it in the sense that consciousness has a metaphysical foundation. It's a phenomenon that hasn't ever been understood via reductive materialism. Similarly, I use "divine" in the sense that reality is deeper than just space-time. I look at the Big Bang singularity and I don't impose the laws of nature upon it, because the laws of nature are what came out of it (see my AOM essay for more).
Thank you for your reply.
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Dean Radin has undertaken a massive amount of research, mostly using meta-analyses. Psi effects tend to be small and experiments prone to failure. But a meta-analysis allows for a statistic to be drawn on the probability of psi vs. chance expectation. The results consistently favour psi. All of this is heavily documented.
Yes, and quite well criticised too!
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The reason why mainstream science hasn't embraced psi phenomena is not because they don't exist, but because most scientists reason from within a paradigm where they *can't* exist.
The scientist whose talk I attended yesterday is certainly not one of those.
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And unless an experimenter is able to checkmate a viewer with a big grand display, like levitating an object, it's very hard to shift the opponents philosophical biases.
That is your, and many others, personal view. One objective fact would do it.
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Your position is dangerously close to an argument from popularity, and those are never any good.
And you assume to know my position from a post here?!
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Let's remember that two thousand years before Copernicus, the Greek philosopher Aristarchus said that the Earth went around the sun. He was right, but went unheeded for the next two millennia.

But I'm guessing you probably think this is all word salad, and you won't read the research for yourself. You want me to convince you with an anecdote, and that's impossible.

If it matters to you at all, Albert Einstein wrote the foreword to Upton Sinclair's "Mental Radio", a 1930 book on ESP. He thought very highly of the research. In Sam Harris's "Waking Up", the author admits that there is a growing body of research that suggests psi is real.
And if the suggestion turns out to be right, following the scientific method, then it will become factual knowledge. Otherwise it will remain, as all supernatural ideas have so far remained, unknowns and therefore, so far, unable to be observed.

I have been reading all the stuff I could find on all aspects of the supernatural, apparent ETs, etc etc, all my life. When I was young the arguments on the opposing side, which my natural tendency to ask always, ‘Is this true?’ were rare but fortunately in my wide experience of life I found the sceptical side too and, on balance, I’ll take the side every time that does not require 100% faith.

Okay, I’ll now do as I said and stay out of this thread.

Susan

ETA Having read GG's post, I am just popping back in to say that it might change whatever image you have of me if you know that I run a weekly tap class for a group of 75-85-year-olds and we dance the Advanced Syllabus plus a variety of other dances including a super routine to the Glenn Miller 'St Louis Blues'!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09-Jun-19 05:49 by Susan Doris.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Parapsychology and wonderment 33907 Darryl Sloan 03-Jun-19 19:34
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 183 greengirl5 03-Jun-19 23:08
u-tube 173 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 03:54
Re: u-tube 167 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 06:17
Re: u-tube 168 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 19:02
Re: u-tube 165 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 18:58
Re: u-tube 142 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 22:29
Meaningful dreams 170 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 18:47
Re: Meaningful dreams 143 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 22:46
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 161 Poster Boy 04-Jun-19 22:29
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 161 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 23:08
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 156 Eddie Larry 05-Jun-19 01:08
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 156 greengirl5 05-Jun-19 03:15
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 208 Eddie Larry 05-Jun-19 20:51
Who was Jesus? 182 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 11:27
Re: Who was Jesus? 153 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 14:37
Re: Who was Jesus? 176 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 15:49
Re: Who was Jesus? 152 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 22:21
Re: Who was Jesus? 155 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 23:06
Re: Who was Jesus? And who were the Mayans? 158 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 23:40
And who were the Mayans? 157 Poster Boy 07-Jun-19 15:41
Winter solstice 2012 151 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 22:40
Re: Winter solstice 2012 148 Poster Boy 07-Jun-19 23:21
Re: Winter solstice 2012 143 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 23:51
Re: Who was Jesus? 153 Darryl Sloan 08-Jun-19 20:16
Questions 165 drrayeye 08-Jun-19 20:47
Re: Questions 170 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:02
Re: Questions and maybe some answers? 144 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 00:03
Re: Questions and maybe some answers? 147 Darryl Sloan 14-Jun-19 09:28
Good and evil 139 greengirl5 14-Jun-19 22:59
Re: Good and evil 135 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:19
Re: Questions 150 drrayeye 11-Jun-19 07:19
Re: Questions 140 Darryl Sloan 14-Jun-19 09:13
Scientists and Dualism 136 drrayeye 14-Jun-19 16:30
Re: Scientists and Dualism 142 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 12:03
Re: Scientists and Dualism 144 drrayeye 17-Jun-19 16:10
Re: Scientists and Dualism 148 Susan Doris 17-Jun-19 17:25
Consciousness and the perceptual environment 136 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 04:10
Re: Who was Jesus? 161 Poster Boy 08-Jun-19 21:11
Re: Who was Jesus? 150 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:20
A scholarly alternative 153 drrayeye 07-Jun-19 06:46
Re: A scholarly alternative 156 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:09
Re: A scholarly alternative 152 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 21:19
Re: A scholarly alternative 146 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 22:11
Re: A scholarly alternative 167 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 22:21
Re: A scholarly alternative 148 SandyJesse 15-Jun-19 05:14
Re: A scholarly alternative 139 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:23
Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 147 Eddie Larry 17-Jun-19 22:32
Re: Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 147 SandyJesse 18-Jun-19 02:56
Re: Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 140 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 03:03
Re: A scholarly alternative 149 Darryl Sloan 13-Jun-19 11:58
Re: A scholarly alternative 160 Eddie Larry 13-Jun-19 14:04
Re: A scholarly alternative 138 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:28
Re: A scholarly alternative 145 Eddie Larry 17-Jun-19 13:08
Follow me - on Facebook....... 139 greengirl5 17-Jun-19 23:10
Re: Follow me - on Facebook....... 147 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 01:42
After the resurrection...... 139 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 06:02
Re: After the resurrection...... 138 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 13:32
Well said 148 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 04:38
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 160 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:05
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 148 Darryl Sloan 05-Jun-19 14:48
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 154 Poster Boy 05-Jun-19 15:37
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 147 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:55
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 150 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 15:38
au contraire 171 drrayeye 04-Jun-19 23:15
Re: au contraire 153 Darryl Sloan 05-Jun-19 15:05
Re: au contraire 166 drrayeye 05-Jun-19 19:56
Re: au contraire 158 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:08
Re: au contraire 149 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 13:48
Re: au contraire 740 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 15:31
Re: au contraire 158 drrayeye 06-Jun-19 16:11
Re: au contraire 160 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 16:16
Consciousness 150 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 23:27
Our brains 161 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 00:56
Re: Consciousness 145 Darryl Sloan 13-Jun-19 11:50
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 166 Susan Doris 07-Jun-19 06:03
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 171 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 07:47
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 166 Susan Doris 07-Jun-19 07:53
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 160 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 23:59
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 160 Darryl Sloan 08-Jun-19 19:22
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 150 greengirl5 08-Jun-19 22:44
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 159 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 05:23
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 160 SandyJesse 09-Jun-19 06:24
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 154 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 07:19
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 152 greengirl5 09-Jun-19 09:12
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 152 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 10:03
There it is again 144 greengirl5 09-Jun-19 12:07
Re: There it is again 160 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 14:49
You know? 162 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 00:36
Re: You know? 148 Susan Doris 10-Jun-19 10:49
Re: You know? 148 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 13:47
Re: You know? 154 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 00:09
Re: You know? 136 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 21:43
Re: You know? 144 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 21:58
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 171 SandyJesse 10-Jun-19 06:38
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 174 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 09:48
How to make gold 168 greengirl5 15-Jun-19 07:47
Re: How to make gold 144 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:07
Re: How to make gold 166 Susan Doris 17-Jun-19 17:31
Re: How to make gold 137 Darryl Sloan 18-Jun-19 08:15
Re: How to make gold 141 Susan Doris 18-Jun-19 09:41
Re: How to make gold 144 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 13:10
Re: How to make gold 145 Susan Doris 18-Jun-19 13:37
Re: How to make gold 140 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 23:30
Re: How to make gold 136 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 18:09
Re: How to make gold 137 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 23:14
Re: How to make gold 133 Darryl Sloan 20-Jun-19 11:44
The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 136 greengirl5 20-Jun-19 23:32
Re: The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 138 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 09:43
Re: The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 125 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 12:18
Re: How to make gold 140 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 06:18
Re: How to make gold 126 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 12:14
Re: How to make gold 143 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 14:42
Re: How to make gold 137 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 23:30
Re: How to make gold 139 Susan Doris 22-Jun-19 05:14
Re: How to make gold 131 greengirl5 22-Jun-19 06:26
Re: How to make gold 134 Susan Doris 22-Jun-19 07:04
Re: How to make gold 139 greengirl5 22-Jun-19 23:49
Re: How to make gold 127 Darryl Sloan 24-Jun-19 18:25
defying naturalistic explanations 133 drrayeye 24-Jun-19 23:32
Re: defying naturalistic explanations 116 Darryl Sloan 26-Jun-19 21:09
Science vs. speculation 360 drrayeye 26-Jun-19 21:57
Re: How to make gold 128 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 05:57
Great advice to scientists! 129 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 07:24
Re: Great advice to scientists! 128 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 10:07
Re: Great advice to scientists! 134 greengirl5 26-Jun-19 00:25
a very creative scientist shares his insights 124 drrayeye 25-Jun-19 11:50
Re: a very creative scientist shares his insights 141 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 14:00
Re: How to make gold 126 Darryl Sloan 24-Jun-19 18:09
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 143 rulebook54 24-Jun-19 22:35
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 139 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 00:31
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 127 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 06:05
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 123 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 07:11
Big consciousness, little consciousness. 128 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 02:37


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