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I will be happy to define the words "spiritual" and "divine". However, these are words which are used in abstract and subtly different manners by many religious faiths, so you should probably direct your frustration more to the world at large than to me. So ... "Spiritual" is an opposing word to "material". We use it as a way of subscribing to the view that reality consists of more than what is merely tangible to creatures. What that hidden aspect consists of varies from belief to belief. Some say there are spirit beings, an astral plane, etc. I have no firm belief in such. I use it in the sense that consciousness has a metaphysical foundation. It's a phenomenon that hasn't ever been understood via reductive materialism. Similarly, I use "divine" in the sense that reality is deeper than just space-time. I look at the Big Bang singularity and I don't impose the laws of nature upon it, because the laws of nature are what came out of it (see my AOM essay for more).
Thank you for your reply.

Dean Radin has undertaken a massive amount of research, mostly using meta-analyses. Psi effects tend to be small and experiments prone to failure. But a meta-analysis allows for a statistic to be drawn on the probability of psi vs. chance expectation. The results consistently favour psi. All of this is heavily documented.
Yes, and quite well criticised too!

The reason why mainstream science hasn't embraced psi phenomena is not because they don't exist, but because most scientists reason from within a paradigm where they *can't* exist.
The scientist whose talk I attended yesterday is certainly not one of those.

And unless an experimenter is able to checkmate a viewer with a big grand display, like levitating an object, it's very hard to shift the opponents philosophical biases.
That is your, and many others, personal view. One objective fact would do it.

Your position is dangerously close to an argument from popularity, and those are never any good.
And you assume to know my position from a post here?!

Let's remember that two thousand years before Copernicus, the Greek philosopher Aristarchus said that the Earth went around the sun. He was right, but went unheeded for the next two millennia.

But I'm guessing you probably think this is all word salad, and you won't read the research for yourself. You want me to convince you with an anecdote, and that's impossible.

If it matters to you at all, Albert Einstein wrote the foreword to Upton Sinclair's "Mental Radio", a 1930 book on ESP. He thought very highly of the research. In Sam Harris's "Waking Up", the author admits that there is a growing body of research that suggests psi is real.
And if the suggestion turns out to be right, following the scientific method, then it will become factual knowledge. Otherwise it will remain, as all supernatural ideas have so far remained, unknowns and therefore, so far, unable to be observed.

I have been reading all the stuff I could find on all aspects of the supernatural, apparent ETs, etc etc, all my life. When I was young the arguments on the opposing side, which my natural tendency to ask always, ‘Is this true?’ were rare but fortunately in my wide experience of life I found the sceptical side too and, on balance, I’ll take the side every time that does not require 100% faith.

Okay, I’ll now do as I said and stay out of this thread.


ETA Having read GG's post, I am just popping back in to say that it might change whatever image you have of me if you know that I run a weekly tap class for a group of 75-85-year-olds and we dance the Advanced Syllabus plus a variety of other dances including a super routine to the Glenn Miller 'St Louis Blues'!!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09-Jun-19 05:49 by Susan Doris.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Parapsychology and wonderment 34693 Darryl Sloan 03-Jun-19 19:34
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 309 greengirl5 03-Jun-19 23:08
u-tube 291 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 03:54
Re: u-tube 286 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 06:17
Re: u-tube 286 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 19:02
Re: u-tube 276 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 18:58
Re: u-tube 255 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 22:29
Meaningful dreams 280 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 18:47
Re: Meaningful dreams 266 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 22:46
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 274 Poster Boy 04-Jun-19 22:29
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 277 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 23:08
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 264 Eddie Larry 05-Jun-19 01:08
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 276 greengirl5 05-Jun-19 03:15
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 349 Eddie Larry 05-Jun-19 20:51
Who was Jesus? 311 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 11:27
Re: Who was Jesus? 263 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 14:37
Re: Who was Jesus? 299 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 15:49
Re: Who was Jesus? 271 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 22:21
Re: Who was Jesus? 266 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 23:06
Re: Who was Jesus? And who were the Mayans? 267 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 23:40
And who were the Mayans? 278 Poster Boy 07-Jun-19 15:41
Winter solstice 2012 263 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 22:40
Re: Winter solstice 2012 277 Poster Boy 07-Jun-19 23:21
Re: Winter solstice 2012 253 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 23:51
Re: Who was Jesus? 262 Darryl Sloan 08-Jun-19 20:16
Questions 280 drrayeye 08-Jun-19 20:47
Re: Questions 299 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:02
Re: Questions and maybe some answers? 254 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 00:03
Re: Questions and maybe some answers? 256 Darryl Sloan 14-Jun-19 09:28
Good and evil 250 greengirl5 14-Jun-19 22:59
Re: Good and evil 242 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:19
Re: Questions 270 drrayeye 11-Jun-19 07:19
Re: Questions 252 Darryl Sloan 14-Jun-19 09:13
Scientists and Dualism 241 drrayeye 14-Jun-19 16:30
Re: Scientists and Dualism 251 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 12:03
Re: Scientists and Dualism 264 drrayeye 17-Jun-19 16:10
Re: Scientists and Dualism 269 Susan Doris 17-Jun-19 17:25
Consciousness and the perceptual environment 258 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 04:10
Re: Who was Jesus? 268 Poster Boy 08-Jun-19 21:11
Re: Who was Jesus? 268 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:20
A scholarly alternative 283 drrayeye 07-Jun-19 06:46
Re: A scholarly alternative 271 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:09
Re: A scholarly alternative 291 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 21:19
Re: A scholarly alternative 271 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 22:11
Re: A scholarly alternative 292 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 22:21
Re: A scholarly alternative 275 SandyJesse 15-Jun-19 05:14
Re: A scholarly alternative 249 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:23
Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 260 Eddie Larry 17-Jun-19 22:32
Re: Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 265 SandyJesse 18-Jun-19 02:56
Re: Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 251 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 03:03
Re: A scholarly alternative 268 Darryl Sloan 13-Jun-19 11:58
Re: A scholarly alternative 266 Eddie Larry 13-Jun-19 14:04
Re: A scholarly alternative 251 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:28
Re: A scholarly alternative 258 Eddie Larry 17-Jun-19 13:08
Follow me - on Facebook....... 246 greengirl5 17-Jun-19 23:10
Re: Follow me - on Facebook....... 256 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 01:42
After the resurrection...... 260 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 06:02
Re: After the resurrection...... 248 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 13:32
Well said 260 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 04:38
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 276 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:05
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 256 Darryl Sloan 05-Jun-19 14:48
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 262 Poster Boy 05-Jun-19 15:37
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 261 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:55
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 260 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 15:38
au contraire 286 drrayeye 04-Jun-19 23:15
Re: au contraire 257 Darryl Sloan 05-Jun-19 15:05
Re: au contraire 288 drrayeye 05-Jun-19 19:56
Re: au contraire 270 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:08
Re: au contraire 268 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 13:48
Re: au contraire 857 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 15:31
Re: au contraire 274 drrayeye 06-Jun-19 16:11
Re: au contraire 276 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 16:16
Consciousness 261 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 23:27
Our brains 278 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 00:56
Re: Consciousness 267 Darryl Sloan 13-Jun-19 11:50
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 295 Susan Doris 07-Jun-19 06:03
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 322 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 07:47
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 295 Susan Doris 07-Jun-19 07:53
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 273 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 23:59
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 276 Darryl Sloan 08-Jun-19 19:22
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 267 greengirl5 08-Jun-19 22:44
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 266 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 05:23
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 278 SandyJesse 09-Jun-19 06:24
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 280 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 07:19
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 267 greengirl5 09-Jun-19 09:12
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 275 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 10:03
There it is again 258 greengirl5 09-Jun-19 12:07
Re: There it is again 271 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 14:49
You know? 280 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 00:36
Re: You know? 260 Susan Doris 10-Jun-19 10:49
Re: You know? 264 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 13:47
Re: You know? 272 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 00:09
Re: You know? 243 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 21:43
Re: You know? 262 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 21:58
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 288 SandyJesse 10-Jun-19 06:38
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 287 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 09:48
How to make gold 279 greengirl5 15-Jun-19 07:47
Re: How to make gold 251 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:07
Re: How to make gold 284 Susan Doris 17-Jun-19 17:31
Re: How to make gold 242 Darryl Sloan 18-Jun-19 08:15
Re: How to make gold 256 Susan Doris 18-Jun-19 09:41
Re: How to make gold 262 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 13:10
Re: How to make gold 266 Susan Doris 18-Jun-19 13:37
Re: How to make gold 249 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 23:30
Re: How to make gold 251 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 18:09
Re: How to make gold 250 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 23:14
Re: How to make gold 237 Darryl Sloan 20-Jun-19 11:44
The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 246 greengirl5 20-Jun-19 23:32
Re: The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 253 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 09:43
Re: The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 234 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 12:18
Re: How to make gold 251 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 06:18
Re: How to make gold 231 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 12:14
Re: How to make gold 250 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 14:42
Re: How to make gold 253 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 23:30
Re: How to make gold 241 Susan Doris 22-Jun-19 05:14
Re: How to make gold 238 greengirl5 22-Jun-19 06:26
Re: How to make gold 233 Susan Doris 22-Jun-19 07:04
Re: How to make gold 246 greengirl5 22-Jun-19 23:49
Re: How to make gold 236 Darryl Sloan 24-Jun-19 18:25
defying naturalistic explanations 249 drrayeye 24-Jun-19 23:32
Re: defying naturalistic explanations 224 Darryl Sloan 26-Jun-19 21:09
Science vs. speculation 538 drrayeye 26-Jun-19 21:57
Re: How to make gold 234 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 05:57
Great advice to scientists! 237 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 07:24
Re: Great advice to scientists! 230 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 10:07
Re: Great advice to scientists! 248 greengirl5 26-Jun-19 00:25
a very creative scientist shares his insights 232 drrayeye 25-Jun-19 11:50
Re: a very creative scientist shares his insights 253 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 14:00
Re: How to make gold 226 Darryl Sloan 24-Jun-19 18:09
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 264 rulebook54 24-Jun-19 22:35
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 251 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 00:31
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 229 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 06:05
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 234 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 07:11
Big consciousness, little consciousness. 231 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 02:37

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