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I will be happy to define the words "spiritual" and "divine". However, these are words which are used in abstract and subtly different manners by many religious faiths, so you should probably direct your frustration more to the world at large than to me. So ... "Spiritual" is an opposing word to "material". We use it as a way of subscribing to the view that reality consists of more than what is merely tangible to creatures. What that hidden aspect consists of varies from belief to belief. Some say there are spirit beings, an astral plane, etc. I have no firm belief in such. I use it in the sense that consciousness has a metaphysical foundation. It's a phenomenon that hasn't ever been understood via reductive materialism. Similarly, I use "divine" in the sense that reality is deeper than just space-time. I look at the Big Bang singularity and I don't impose the laws of nature upon it, because the laws of nature are what came out of it (see my AOM essay for more).
Thank you for your reply.

Dean Radin has undertaken a massive amount of research, mostly using meta-analyses. Psi effects tend to be small and experiments prone to failure. But a meta-analysis allows for a statistic to be drawn on the probability of psi vs. chance expectation. The results consistently favour psi. All of this is heavily documented.
Yes, and quite well criticised too!

The reason why mainstream science hasn't embraced psi phenomena is not because they don't exist, but because most scientists reason from within a paradigm where they *can't* exist.
The scientist whose talk I attended yesterday is certainly not one of those.

And unless an experimenter is able to checkmate a viewer with a big grand display, like levitating an object, it's very hard to shift the opponents philosophical biases.
That is your, and many others, personal view. One objective fact would do it.

Your position is dangerously close to an argument from popularity, and those are never any good.
And you assume to know my position from a post here?!

Let's remember that two thousand years before Copernicus, the Greek philosopher Aristarchus said that the Earth went around the sun. He was right, but went unheeded for the next two millennia.

But I'm guessing you probably think this is all word salad, and you won't read the research for yourself. You want me to convince you with an anecdote, and that's impossible.

If it matters to you at all, Albert Einstein wrote the foreword to Upton Sinclair's "Mental Radio", a 1930 book on ESP. He thought very highly of the research. In Sam Harris's "Waking Up", the author admits that there is a growing body of research that suggests psi is real.
And if the suggestion turns out to be right, following the scientific method, then it will become factual knowledge. Otherwise it will remain, as all supernatural ideas have so far remained, unknowns and therefore, so far, unable to be observed.

I have been reading all the stuff I could find on all aspects of the supernatural, apparent ETs, etc etc, all my life. When I was young the arguments on the opposing side, which my natural tendency to ask always, ‘Is this true?’ were rare but fortunately in my wide experience of life I found the sceptical side too and, on balance, I’ll take the side every time that does not require 100% faith.

Okay, I’ll now do as I said and stay out of this thread.


ETA Having read GG's post, I am just popping back in to say that it might change whatever image you have of me if you know that I run a weekly tap class for a group of 75-85-year-olds and we dance the Advanced Syllabus plus a variety of other dances including a super routine to the Glenn Miller 'St Louis Blues'!!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09-Jun-19 05:49 by Susan Doris.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Parapsychology and wonderment 34517 Darryl Sloan 03-Jun-19 19:34
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 259 greengirl5 03-Jun-19 23:08
u-tube 243 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 03:54
Re: u-tube 237 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 06:17
Re: u-tube 238 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 19:02
Re: u-tube 228 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 18:58
Re: u-tube 210 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 22:29
Meaningful dreams 233 Darryl Sloan 04-Jun-19 18:47
Re: Meaningful dreams 217 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 22:46
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 228 Poster Boy 04-Jun-19 22:29
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 231 greengirl5 04-Jun-19 23:08
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 218 Eddie Larry 05-Jun-19 01:08
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 230 greengirl5 05-Jun-19 03:15
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 294 Eddie Larry 05-Jun-19 20:51
Who was Jesus? 252 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 11:27
Re: Who was Jesus? 216 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 14:37
Re: Who was Jesus? 251 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 15:49
Re: Who was Jesus? 223 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 22:21
Re: Who was Jesus? 221 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 23:06
Re: Who was Jesus? And who were the Mayans? 220 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 23:40
And who were the Mayans? 228 Poster Boy 07-Jun-19 15:41
Winter solstice 2012 215 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 22:40
Re: Winter solstice 2012 229 Poster Boy 07-Jun-19 23:21
Re: Winter solstice 2012 207 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 23:51
Re: Who was Jesus? 216 Darryl Sloan 08-Jun-19 20:16
Questions 233 drrayeye 08-Jun-19 20:47
Re: Questions 244 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:02
Re: Questions and maybe some answers? 208 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 00:03
Re: Questions and maybe some answers? 209 Darryl Sloan 14-Jun-19 09:28
Good and evil 205 greengirl5 14-Jun-19 22:59
Re: Good and evil 198 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:19
Re: Questions 220 drrayeye 11-Jun-19 07:19
Re: Questions 207 Darryl Sloan 14-Jun-19 09:13
Scientists and Dualism 196 drrayeye 14-Jun-19 16:30
Re: Scientists and Dualism 209 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 12:03
Re: Scientists and Dualism 214 drrayeye 17-Jun-19 16:10
Re: Scientists and Dualism 218 Susan Doris 17-Jun-19 17:25
Consciousness and the perceptual environment 211 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 04:10
Re: Who was Jesus? 223 Poster Boy 08-Jun-19 21:11
Re: Who was Jesus? 222 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:20
A scholarly alternative 235 drrayeye 07-Jun-19 06:46
Re: A scholarly alternative 224 Darryl Sloan 10-Jun-19 19:09
Re: A scholarly alternative 242 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 21:19
Re: A scholarly alternative 224 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 22:11
Re: A scholarly alternative 243 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 22:21
Re: A scholarly alternative 227 SandyJesse 15-Jun-19 05:14
Re: A scholarly alternative 202 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:23
Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 213 Eddie Larry 17-Jun-19 22:32
Re: Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 221 SandyJesse 18-Jun-19 02:56
Re: Tiberius Julius Cotys Philocaesar Eusebes 206 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 03:03
Re: A scholarly alternative 220 Darryl Sloan 13-Jun-19 11:58
Re: A scholarly alternative 220 Eddie Larry 13-Jun-19 14:04
Re: A scholarly alternative 204 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:28
Re: A scholarly alternative 209 Eddie Larry 17-Jun-19 13:08
Follow me - on Facebook....... 200 greengirl5 17-Jun-19 23:10
Re: Follow me - on Facebook....... 208 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 01:42
After the resurrection...... 214 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 06:02
Re: After the resurrection...... 203 Eddie Larry 18-Jun-19 13:32
Well said 213 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 04:38
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 227 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:05
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 210 Darryl Sloan 05-Jun-19 14:48
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 215 Poster Boy 05-Jun-19 15:37
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 216 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:55
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 215 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 15:38
au contraire 239 drrayeye 04-Jun-19 23:15
Re: au contraire 214 Darryl Sloan 05-Jun-19 15:05
Re: au contraire 240 drrayeye 05-Jun-19 19:56
Re: au contraire 221 Darryl Sloan 06-Jun-19 10:08
Re: au contraire 218 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 13:48
Re: au contraire 806 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 15:31
Re: au contraire 225 drrayeye 06-Jun-19 16:11
Re: au contraire 229 Poster Boy 06-Jun-19 16:16
Consciousness 213 greengirl5 06-Jun-19 23:27
Our brains 225 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 00:56
Re: Consciousness 218 Darryl Sloan 13-Jun-19 11:50
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 246 Susan Doris 07-Jun-19 06:03
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 274 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 07:47
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 243 Susan Doris 07-Jun-19 07:53
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 228 greengirl5 07-Jun-19 23:59
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 230 Darryl Sloan 08-Jun-19 19:22
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 220 greengirl5 08-Jun-19 22:44
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 221 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 05:23
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 231 SandyJesse 09-Jun-19 06:24
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 234 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 07:19
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 218 greengirl5 09-Jun-19 09:12
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 230 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 10:03
There it is again 210 greengirl5 09-Jun-19 12:07
Re: There it is again 227 Susan Doris 09-Jun-19 14:49
You know? 233 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 00:36
Re: You know? 214 Susan Doris 10-Jun-19 10:49
Re: You know? 217 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 13:47
Re: You know? 222 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 00:09
Re: You know? 196 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-19 21:43
Re: You know? 214 greengirl5 11-Jun-19 21:58
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 241 SandyJesse 10-Jun-19 06:38
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 240 greengirl5 10-Jun-19 09:48
How to make gold 231 greengirl5 15-Jun-19 07:47
Re: How to make gold 205 Darryl Sloan 17-Jun-19 11:07
Re: How to make gold 239 Susan Doris 17-Jun-19 17:31
Re: How to make gold 196 Darryl Sloan 18-Jun-19 08:15
Re: How to make gold 208 Susan Doris 18-Jun-19 09:41
Re: How to make gold 218 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 13:10
Re: How to make gold 220 Susan Doris 18-Jun-19 13:37
Re: How to make gold 206 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 23:30
Re: How to make gold 205 drrayeye 18-Jun-19 18:09
Re: How to make gold 204 greengirl5 18-Jun-19 23:14
Re: How to make gold 194 Darryl Sloan 20-Jun-19 11:44
The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 201 greengirl5 20-Jun-19 23:32
Re: The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 209 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 09:43
Re: The "para" is not going away, it is getting stronger. 190 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 12:18
Re: How to make gold 205 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 06:18
Re: How to make gold 187 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 12:14
Re: How to make gold 204 Susan Doris 21-Jun-19 14:42
Re: How to make gold 211 greengirl5 21-Jun-19 23:30
Re: How to make gold 197 Susan Doris 22-Jun-19 05:14
Re: How to make gold 195 greengirl5 22-Jun-19 06:26
Re: How to make gold 191 Susan Doris 22-Jun-19 07:04
Re: How to make gold 203 greengirl5 22-Jun-19 23:49
Re: How to make gold 190 Darryl Sloan 24-Jun-19 18:25
defying naturalistic explanations 202 drrayeye 24-Jun-19 23:32
Re: defying naturalistic explanations 179 Darryl Sloan 26-Jun-19 21:09
Science vs. speculation 462 drrayeye 26-Jun-19 21:57
Re: How to make gold 190 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 05:57
Great advice to scientists! 193 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 07:24
Re: Great advice to scientists! 186 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 10:07
Re: Great advice to scientists! 202 greengirl5 26-Jun-19 00:25
a very creative scientist shares his insights 188 drrayeye 25-Jun-19 11:50
Re: a very creative scientist shares his insights 205 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 14:00
Re: How to make gold 180 Darryl Sloan 24-Jun-19 18:09
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 215 rulebook54 24-Jun-19 22:35
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 205 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 00:31
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 185 Susan Doris 25-Jun-19 06:05
Re: Parapsychology and wonderment 191 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 07:11
Big consciousness, little consciousness. 187 greengirl5 25-Jun-19 02:37

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