I do not agree that the world is 'mired' in 17th century perceptions or understanding of reality. Our knowledge base has vastly increased since then and, with the objectivity of the scientific method, is far more firmly based, otherwise, for example, the technology we have would not work. At no time since the 17th century, however, has any objective evidence been found for any supernatural anything"!
Any self-understanding which involves a belief that entirely subjective ideas are objective is a diversion, a detour, or a dead end pursuit and should only be made with the clear knowledge that it is indistinguishable from, well, guessing.
> Hi Susan
> I think what people move towards when it comes to
> "shamanism," is a deeper understanding of
> reality's plasticity.
> The Western world is mired in a 17th-century
> conception of reality, based on Cartesian and
> Newtonian thinking, that this reality is all there
> is, with its laws and the absolute reality of
> things, around which these laws are based.
> That's all well and good, yet in the last few
> centuries we have also learned that this "reality"
> is 99.9999999 percent empty space. our discovery
> of the subatomic realm demonstrated, absolutely,
> that Cartesian-Newtonian paradigms are NOT
> absolute. Then in the early 20th century, a Nobel
> prize was awarded based on the finding that we do,
> in fact, affect reality through our perception.
> I have found, based on direct experience, that
> this reality is an extension of Mind, and this is
> what I was getting at when I replied to the very
> busy Evelyn regarding Eastern doctrines and what I
> called the 'Void." To shamanism then, do these
> spirits have an objective reality of their own, in
> which case they are an extension Mind? Or, are
> they an extension of 'mind'?
> I believe the former interpretation, and that the
> only way you can connect with these spirits is by
> getting down to a level where
> 17th-century paradigms are seen to be
> non-absolute, and part of a much more diversified
> reality. In other words Susan, one's
> consciousness plays a defining role.
> I suspect that shamen are connecting with real
> beings in realms that seem "imaginary" from the
> 17th-century point of view, where things are seen
> to exclusively define what is real. If this realm
> and others are projections of Mind, then they are
> equally imaginary in one sense. And since, as
> modern science affirms, this realm is
> virtually empty space AND that perception
> influences outcomes on at least one level..... I
> see plenty of room for authentic interaction with
> beings in other realms.
> Now, of course you believe none of this. And you
> may be assured that I and others will give you a
> very hard time when we're all on the other side!
> I'm teasing of course. In the meanwhile, keep up
> the dancing!