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As it stands the interbreeding between Aboriginals and Denisovans is dated to 44Kya, so that is the date we should work with. If you have evidence of other dates or another two interbreeding events I would need to see it before commenting.

My theory (the evidence is s solid that it is well beyond a hypothesis) is that Eurasia was repopulated from Australia around 60kya, but I do not say it is impossible some Africans emerged into Eurasia in the period 60 - 50Kya. They do not seem to have based on existing data.


There is high genetic diversity in Sub-Saharan Africa, yes, but also incredible diversity in Australia. Right now nobody can state that the African diversity is higher than that of Aboriginals. Until further, more comprehensive, sampling is carried out in Australasia this remains a murky area.

There is no meaningful evidence that all mtDNA and Y chromosomal data roots in Africa not Australia. Your understanding is based on a glaring assumption, that haplogroups L3, M, N and CT emerged first in Africa around 73,000 years ago. There is absolutely no proof of this, the oldest African DNA samples are a mere 8000 years old. The consensus view is based on sampling African people from the present day and then assuming all the direct ancestors of these people (myself included) lived in Africa from the present day all the way back to hundreds of thousands of years ago. This is a huge and wild assumption. The evidence does not fit well with this at all, hence recent papers that have argued for HgL3 emerging in Asia and moving into Africa - something I already had explained in my book. The mutation rates of Y-chromosomal material and mtDNA differ by 10X, the likelihood of mutations on both lines occurring at the same moment (73,000 years ago) in teh same place (East Africa) are incredibly small. The better fit has always been a migration across the Bab-el-Mandab carrying these haplogroups into the continent. Today we now know that there was a climatic disaster underway outside of Sub-Saharan Africa with every reason for humans in western Eurasia to head towards the safe-zones of sub-equtorial Africa.

Did you know that the oldest variants of HgM and HgN are all found among Aboriginals?

“The southern route hypothesis proposes that the Eurasian branches (M and N) of the macrohaplogroup L3 differentiated in or near the African continent and rapidly spread across the Asian peninsulas to reach Australia and Melanesia. Under this assumption, it is expected that, in general, coalescence ages of haplogroups should decrease from Africa to Australia. However, we have demonstrated that this is not the case. Just on the contrary, the oldest M and N haplogroups are detected in southern China and Australasia instead of India, and associations between longitudinal geographic distances and relative ages of M and N haplogroups run, against to expectation, westwards with younger haplogroup ages going to Africa.” [www.biorxiv.org]

It should also be noted that while HgL3 and both HgM & HgN are closely related, they are considered to have emerged at essentially the same time, it has never been explained how that can work, why assume HgL3 is ancestral to M & N? The answer is it is very convenient for Recent Out of Africa but makes no sense in terms of the mutation rate of mtDNA. These three lines did not all magically appear suddenly 73,000 years ago, they were driven west by the climate and therefore appear in the genome of early Africans close to that time.

It is simply a case of a 'garbage in, garbage out' model. Yes, if we place the origin of all these haplogroups in Africa without any compelling evidence, and a great deal of contrary data, then we can make all the rest of the model sound very solid. The entire thing is built on quicksand.


There is more and more doubt that AMH emerged from Africa with archaic Homo sapiens in 260Kya and fully modern humans there at least 120Kya. These early migrants have left very little genetic legacy because of the climatic event that reduced them to a handful of survivors and pushed many of them into Africa.

The hypothesis that these founder haplogrups are African is baseless, wrong, and in collapse.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 4517 Bruce R. Fenton 01-Jun-17 11:19
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 1019 Susan Doris 02-Jun-17 05:45
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 802 Bruce R. Fenton 02-Jun-17 06:56
Related threads on GHMB 868 drrayeye 02-Jun-17 17:06
Re: Related threads on GHMB 703 Bruce R. Fenton 03-Jun-17 10:19
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 741 laughin 05-Jun-17 21:06
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 727 Bruce R. Fenton 06-Jun-17 04:03
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 729 SallyA 07-Jun-17 02:28
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 618 Bruce R. Fenton 07-Jun-17 04:40
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 928 Thanos5150 06-Jun-17 14:29
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 746 SallyA 07-Jun-17 02:55
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 696 Bruce R. Fenton 07-Jun-17 05:47
... 730 SallyA 08-Jun-17 04:00
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution ..-_-.. question one 644 Bruce R. Fenton 08-Jun-17 04:37
... 737 SallyA 08-Jun-17 06:51
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 624 Thanos5150 07-Jun-17 16:15
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 757 Thanos5150 07-Jun-17 19:38
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 724 Bruce R. Fenton 08-Jun-17 03:20
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 608 Bruce R. Fenton 07-Jun-17 05:33
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 919 Thanos5150 07-Jun-17 16:08
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 662 SallyA 08-Jun-17 05:17
... 737 SallyA 08-Jun-17 06:06
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 708 Bruce R. Fenton 09-Jun-17 02:19
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution -- thank you 664 SallyA 09-Jun-17 03:47
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 816 Thanos5150 11-Jun-17 16:13
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 598 Bruce R. Fenton 12-Jun-17 09:26
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 632 Bruce R. Fenton 09-Jun-17 02:03
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 717 Thanos5150 09-Jun-17 23:54
OOA strikes back - the sequel 763 laughin 08-Jun-17 13:09
Re: OOA strikes back - the sequel 660 Bruce R. Fenton 08-Jun-17 15:37
Re: OOA strikes back - the sequel 661 Thanos5150 08-Jun-17 17:23
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 643 Robert Jameson 11-Jun-17 06:13
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 643 Bruce R. Fenton 11-Jun-17 11:46
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 795 Robert Jameson 12-Jun-17 05:34
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 654 dong 12-Jun-17 06:51
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 718 Robert Jameson 12-Jun-17 13:32
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 724 Bruce R. Fenton 12-Jun-17 09:19
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 621 Robert Jameson 12-Jun-17 12:40
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 690 Susan Doris 14-Jun-17 05:02
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 692 Robert Jameson 14-Jun-17 05:45
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 717 michael seabrook 13-Jun-17 22:09
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 724 Robert Jameson 13-Jun-17 00:51
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 624 SallyA 13-Jun-17 01:03
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 605 Robert Jameson 13-Jun-17 02:44
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution. -- off topic .. senmutt tomb. .. Giza hosts an inland sea 791 SallyA 13-Jun-17 02:59
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution. -- off topic .. senmutt tomb 588 Robert Jameson 13-Jun-17 03:39
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution. -- off topic .. senmutt tomb 651 SallyA 13-Jun-17 04:04
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 708 Thanos5150 14-Jun-17 15:55
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 783 Robert Jameson 14-Jun-17 17:54
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 609 michael seabrook 16-Jun-17 21:03
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 629 Robert Jameson 16-Jun-17 22:47
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution Excellent and ... 698 SallyA 16-Jun-17 23:39
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution Excellent and ... 699 Robert Jameson 17-Jun-17 09:44
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 604 Susan Doris 17-Jun-17 14:17
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 668 Robert Jameson 18-Jun-17 02:43
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 621 Susan Doris 18-Jun-17 09:24
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 676 Bruce R. Fenton 18-Jun-17 11:04
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 677 Robert Jameson 18-Jun-17 11:14
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 587 Robert Jameson 18-Jun-17 11:04
Unfair diversion 518 drrayeye 18-Jun-17 21:35
Re: Proto-sumerian ... Ukraine ... a bit late for into Africa I fear, probably mis-posted 780 SallyA 19-Jun-17 03:00
Re: Unfair diversion 715 Susan Doris 19-Jun-17 05:20
Unfair diversion for sure 604 drrayeye 19-Jun-17 05:47
Re: Unfair diversion for sure 664 Susan Doris 20-Jun-17 04:56
Robert's challenge 705 drrayeye 20-Jun-17 07:24
Re: Robert's challenge 598 Robert Jameson 26-Jun-17 11:17
Tangential 592 drrayeye 27-Jun-17 05:03
Re: Tangential 603 Robert Jameson 27-Jun-17 06:12
Wrong board 622 drrayeye 27-Jun-17 06:38
Re: Wrong board 577 Robert Jameson 27-Jun-17 08:03
Re: Tangential 611 Eddie Larry 27-Jun-17 15:59
Re:Susan, do you know of a time line? 623 SallyA 19-Jun-17 17:48
Re: Unfair diversion 682 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 13:44
Re: Unfair diversion 596 drrayeye 19-Jun-17 15:40
Re: Unfair diversion 710 Robert Jameson 19-Jun-17 23:14
Re: Unfair diversion 609 drrayeye 20-Jun-17 00:31
Re: Unfair diversion 677 Robert Jameson 20-Jun-17 10:19
kicking a dead horse 621 drrayeye 20-Jun-17 14:36
Re: kicking a dead horse 526 Robert Jameson 20-Jun-17 23:49
Staying on topic 606 drrayeye 21-Jun-17 01:15
Re: Unfair diversion 618 Thanos5150 20-Jun-17 15:24
Hominids vs Homo. most obvious difference -- thumbs on feet 545 SallyA 20-Jun-17 15:59
Re: Hominids vs Homo. most obvious difference -- thumbs on feet 514 Bruce R. Fenton 26-Jun-17 10:21
Interesting 592 drrayeye 27-Jun-17 06:50
Re: Interesting 479 Bruce R. Fenton 27-Jun-17 22:32
Re: Hominids vs Homo. most obvious difference -- thumbs on feet 484 Eddie Larry 28-Jun-17 04:37
Re: Hominids vs Homo. most obvious difference -- thumbs on feet 829 Bruce R. Fenton 28-Jun-17 04:41
Re: Unfair diversion 562 drrayeye 20-Jun-17 15:59
Off Topic: re: factors which alter .. Earth's shields don't block cygnets ... nor neutrinos, ... 536 SallyA 20-Jun-17 21:13
Re: Unfair diversion 513 SallyA 21-Jun-17 01:37
Focus 612 drrayeye 21-Jun-17 07:30
Re: Focus 681 Bruce R. Fenton 26-Jun-17 10:26
Re: Focus 586 Susan Doris 26-Jun-17 16:51
Re: Focus... ah, my bad ... 490 SallyA 11-Feb-18 19:40
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 681 Bruce R. Fenton 17-Jun-17 12:12
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 615 Robert Jameson 26-Jun-17 06:32
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 593 Bruce R. Fenton 26-Jun-17 11:57
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 741 Robert Jameson 26-Jun-17 13:59
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 427 lalbee 16-Feb-18 13:39
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 411 lalbee 17-Feb-18 02:25
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 427 Bruce R. Fenton 17-Feb-18 04:13
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 406 lalbee 17-Feb-18 05:56
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 431 Bruce R. Fenton 17-Feb-18 06:27
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 565 lalbee 18-Feb-18 15:17
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 438 drrayeye 21-Feb-18 13:48
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 421 lalbee 22-Feb-18 16:45
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 418 Robert Jameson 22-Feb-18 19:39
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 798 Bruce R. Fenton 22-Feb-18 23:07
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 430 Bruce R. Fenton 22-Feb-18 23:00


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