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As it stands the interbreeding between Aboriginals and Denisovans is dated to 44Kya, so that is the date we should work with. If you have evidence of other dates or another two interbreeding events I would need to see it before commenting.

My theory (the evidence is s solid that it is well beyond a hypothesis) is that Eurasia was repopulated from Australia around 60kya, but I do not say it is impossible some Africans emerged into Eurasia in the period 60 - 50Kya. They do not seem to have based on existing data.


There is high genetic diversity in Sub-Saharan Africa, yes, but also incredible diversity in Australia. Right now nobody can state that the African diversity is higher than that of Aboriginals. Until further, more comprehensive, sampling is carried out in Australasia this remains a murky area.

There is no meaningful evidence that all mtDNA and Y chromosomal data roots in Africa not Australia. Your understanding is based on a glaring assumption, that haplogroups L3, M, N and CT emerged first in Africa around 73,000 years ago. There is absolutely no proof of this, the oldest African DNA samples are a mere 8000 years old. The consensus view is based on sampling African people from the present day and then assuming all the direct ancestors of these people (myself included) lived in Africa from the present day all the way back to hundreds of thousands of years ago. This is a huge and wild assumption. The evidence does not fit well with this at all, hence recent papers that have argued for HgL3 emerging in Asia and moving into Africa - something I already had explained in my book. The mutation rates of Y-chromosomal material and mtDNA differ by 10X, the likelihood of mutations on both lines occurring at the same moment (73,000 years ago) in teh same place (East Africa) are incredibly small. The better fit has always been a migration across the Bab-el-Mandab carrying these haplogroups into the continent. Today we now know that there was a climatic disaster underway outside of Sub-Saharan Africa with every reason for humans in western Eurasia to head towards the safe-zones of sub-equtorial Africa.

Did you know that the oldest variants of HgM and HgN are all found among Aboriginals?

“The southern route hypothesis proposes that the Eurasian branches (M and N) of the macrohaplogroup L3 differentiated in or near the African continent and rapidly spread across the Asian peninsulas to reach Australia and Melanesia. Under this assumption, it is expected that, in general, coalescence ages of haplogroups should decrease from Africa to Australia. However, we have demonstrated that this is not the case. Just on the contrary, the oldest M and N haplogroups are detected in southern China and Australasia instead of India, and associations between longitudinal geographic distances and relative ages of M and N haplogroups run, against to expectation, westwards with younger haplogroup ages going to Africa.” [www.biorxiv.org]

It should also be noted that while HgL3 and both HgM & HgN are closely related, they are considered to have emerged at essentially the same time, it has never been explained how that can work, why assume HgL3 is ancestral to M & N? The answer is it is very convenient for Recent Out of Africa but makes no sense in terms of the mutation rate of mtDNA. These three lines did not all magically appear suddenly 73,000 years ago, they were driven west by the climate and therefore appear in the genome of early Africans close to that time.

It is simply a case of a 'garbage in, garbage out' model. Yes, if we place the origin of all these haplogroups in Africa without any compelling evidence, and a great deal of contrary data, then we can make all the rest of the model sound very solid. The entire thing is built on quicksand.


There is more and more doubt that AMH emerged from Africa with archaic Homo sapiens in 260Kya and fully modern humans there at least 120Kya. These early migrants have left very little genetic legacy because of the climatic event that reduced them to a handful of survivors and pushed many of them into Africa.

The hypothesis that these founder haplogrups are African is baseless, wrong, and in collapse.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 4427 Bruce R. Fenton 01-Jun-17 11:19
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 957 Susan Doris 02-Jun-17 05:45
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 779 Bruce R. Fenton 02-Jun-17 06:56
Related threads on GHMB 842 drrayeye 02-Jun-17 17:06
Re: Related threads on GHMB 674 Bruce R. Fenton 03-Jun-17 10:19
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 720 laughin 05-Jun-17 21:06
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 689 Bruce R. Fenton 06-Jun-17 04:03
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 706 SallyA 07-Jun-17 02:28
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 595 Bruce R. Fenton 07-Jun-17 04:40
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 872 Thanos5150 06-Jun-17 14:29
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 725 SallyA 07-Jun-17 02:55
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 662 Bruce R. Fenton 07-Jun-17 05:47
... 703 SallyA 08-Jun-17 04:00
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution ..-_-.. question one 622 Bruce R. Fenton 08-Jun-17 04:37
... 702 SallyA 08-Jun-17 06:51
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 600 Thanos5150 07-Jun-17 16:15
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 733 Thanos5150 07-Jun-17 19:38
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 703 Bruce R. Fenton 08-Jun-17 03:20
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 583 Bruce R. Fenton 07-Jun-17 05:33
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 845 Thanos5150 07-Jun-17 16:08
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 639 SallyA 08-Jun-17 05:17
... 711 SallyA 08-Jun-17 06:06
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 684 Bruce R. Fenton 09-Jun-17 02:19
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution -- thank you 642 SallyA 09-Jun-17 03:47
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 765 Thanos5150 11-Jun-17 16:13
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 575 Bruce R. Fenton 12-Jun-17 09:26
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 606 Bruce R. Fenton 09-Jun-17 02:03
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 694 Thanos5150 09-Jun-17 23:54
OOA strikes back - the sequel 737 laughin 08-Jun-17 13:09
Re: OOA strikes back - the sequel 635 Bruce R. Fenton 08-Jun-17 15:37
Re: OOA strikes back - the sequel 639 Thanos5150 08-Jun-17 17:23
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 616 Robert Jameson 11-Jun-17 06:13
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 617 Bruce R. Fenton 11-Jun-17 11:46
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 772 Robert Jameson 12-Jun-17 05:34
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 628 dong 12-Jun-17 06:51
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 683 Robert Jameson 12-Jun-17 13:32
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 696 Bruce R. Fenton 12-Jun-17 09:19
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 597 Robert Jameson 12-Jun-17 12:40
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 667 Susan Doris 14-Jun-17 05:02
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 668 Robert Jameson 14-Jun-17 05:45
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 692 michael seabrook 13-Jun-17 22:09
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 695 Robert Jameson 13-Jun-17 00:51
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 598 SallyA 13-Jun-17 01:03
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 581 Robert Jameson 13-Jun-17 02:44
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution. -- off topic .. senmutt tomb. .. Giza hosts an inland sea 758 SallyA 13-Jun-17 02:59
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution. -- off topic .. senmutt tomb 563 Robert Jameson 13-Jun-17 03:39
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution. -- off topic .. senmutt tomb 623 SallyA 13-Jun-17 04:04
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 679 Thanos5150 14-Jun-17 15:55
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 760 Robert Jameson 14-Jun-17 17:54
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 586 michael seabrook 16-Jun-17 21:03
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 603 Robert Jameson 16-Jun-17 22:47
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution Excellent and ... 673 SallyA 16-Jun-17 23:39
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution Excellent and ... 675 Robert Jameson 17-Jun-17 09:44
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 584 Susan Doris 17-Jun-17 14:17
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 646 Robert Jameson 18-Jun-17 02:43
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 596 Susan Doris 18-Jun-17 09:24
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 654 Bruce R. Fenton 18-Jun-17 11:04
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 649 Robert Jameson 18-Jun-17 11:14
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 563 Robert Jameson 18-Jun-17 11:04
Unfair diversion 490 drrayeye 18-Jun-17 21:35
Re: Proto-sumerian ... Ukraine ... a bit late for into Africa I fear, probably mis-posted 753 SallyA 19-Jun-17 03:00
Re: Unfair diversion 693 Susan Doris 19-Jun-17 05:20
Unfair diversion for sure 581 drrayeye 19-Jun-17 05:47
Re: Unfair diversion for sure 639 Susan Doris 20-Jun-17 04:56
Robert's challenge 666 drrayeye 20-Jun-17 07:24
Re: Robert's challenge 575 Robert Jameson 26-Jun-17 11:17
Tangential 571 drrayeye 27-Jun-17 05:03
Re: Tangential 581 Robert Jameson 27-Jun-17 06:12
Wrong board 598 drrayeye 27-Jun-17 06:38
Re: Wrong board 554 Robert Jameson 27-Jun-17 08:03
Re: Tangential 588 Eddie Larry 27-Jun-17 15:59
Re:Susan, do you know of a time line? 602 SallyA 19-Jun-17 17:48
Re: Unfair diversion 659 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 13:44
Re: Unfair diversion 574 drrayeye 19-Jun-17 15:40
Re: Unfair diversion 683 Robert Jameson 19-Jun-17 23:14
Re: Unfair diversion 584 drrayeye 20-Jun-17 00:31
Re: Unfair diversion 651 Robert Jameson 20-Jun-17 10:19
kicking a dead horse 599 drrayeye 20-Jun-17 14:36
Re: kicking a dead horse 503 Robert Jameson 20-Jun-17 23:49
Staying on topic 583 drrayeye 21-Jun-17 01:15
Re: Unfair diversion 589 Thanos5150 20-Jun-17 15:24
Hominids vs Homo. most obvious difference -- thumbs on feet 519 SallyA 20-Jun-17 15:59
Re: Hominids vs Homo. most obvious difference -- thumbs on feet 491 Bruce R. Fenton 26-Jun-17 10:21
Interesting 569 drrayeye 27-Jun-17 06:50
Re: Interesting 458 Bruce R. Fenton 27-Jun-17 22:32
Re: Hominids vs Homo. most obvious difference -- thumbs on feet 465 Eddie Larry 28-Jun-17 04:37
Re: Hominids vs Homo. most obvious difference -- thumbs on feet 793 Bruce R. Fenton 28-Jun-17 04:41
Re: Unfair diversion 535 drrayeye 20-Jun-17 15:59
Off Topic: re: factors which alter .. Earth's shields don't block cygnets ... nor neutrinos, ... 510 SallyA 20-Jun-17 21:13
Re: Unfair diversion 488 SallyA 21-Jun-17 01:37
Focus 585 drrayeye 21-Jun-17 07:30
Re: Focus 650 Bruce R. Fenton 26-Jun-17 10:26
Re: Focus 563 Susan Doris 26-Jun-17 16:51
Re: Focus... ah, my bad ... 468 SallyA 11-Feb-18 19:40
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 651 Bruce R. Fenton 17-Jun-17 12:12
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 592 Robert Jameson 26-Jun-17 06:32
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 571 Bruce R. Fenton 26-Jun-17 11:57
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 715 Robert Jameson 26-Jun-17 13:59
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 405 lalbee 16-Feb-18 13:39
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 386 lalbee 17-Feb-18 02:25
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 404 Bruce R. Fenton 17-Feb-18 04:13
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 384 lalbee 17-Feb-18 05:56
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 405 Bruce R. Fenton 17-Feb-18 06:27
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 526 lalbee 18-Feb-18 15:17
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 410 drrayeye 21-Feb-18 13:48
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 396 lalbee 22-Feb-18 16:45
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 392 Robert Jameson 22-Feb-18 19:39
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 747 Bruce R. Fenton 22-Feb-18 23:07
Re: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution 402 Bruce R. Fenton 22-Feb-18 23:00


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