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Sirius7237 wrote:


> Chloroplasts too. Once a free living organism which evolved the
> capacity to harvest energy from the sun and turn it into
> structural sugars. They probably gravitated to colonies of
> primitive algae-like cells for protection and a symbiotic
> relationship ensued where each became completely dependent on
> the other.

Yep. :)) Slightly out of the way, but it's interesting that it was bacteria that invented photosynthesis, not plants.

> Especially when you consider that individual cells within an
> organism - the self within a Universe of billions of other
> selves-are able to communicate with each other through
> electro-chemical signalling systems such as depolarization of
> cell membranes and chemical signals such as hormones which work
> on complex feedback loops.

And...it works with DNA and proteins not even speaking the same language!

> This works to the point where certain cells, often located
> great distances from the target cell can signal other cells to
> die, and the targets cells just go right ahead and die for the
> good of the organism. This would seem to go against the
> instinct for self-preservation for individual cells but that is
> what happens.

Most of the time. When it doesn't, we get cancer.

> All this seemingly happens without consciousness but at the
> molecular level where there would seem to be force driving it
> other than charge distribution and the drive to greater and
> greater disorder in the form of entropy - very mysterious.

I was going to mention entropy but thought it might be off topic. Isn't it very interesting that cells operate at near-perfect thermodynamic efficiency?

> Anyway, found this article in live science that explains some
> of the concepts the paper you found was presenting only this is
> actually written in English so it can be understood. Maybe this
> will help ease the head ache pain and stop the swelling from
> trying to read the other one. I finally gave up trying to make
> sense of something that was almost impossible to read. I am not
> sure that I agree with one of their conclusions that humans are
> the only self-aware species on the planet but that is for
> another thread.
>
> [www.livescience.com]
>
> Hope that helps, :-)

Yep, and there are those microtubules again. :)) I agree with you; I think that their rejection of the model is a tad premature: how in the world do we know that we're the only species with consciousness? Their entire conclusion is based on a piece of anthrocentric snobbery that may or may not be correct. IMO it is still a valid hypothesis until proven otherwise.

> I had another thought too about what we call, for lack of a
> better term, instinct in animals. This seems to me to be kind
> of a mysterious form of behavior that would be difficult to
> explain without some kind of quantum cellular memory passed
> down through Darwinian mechanisms, which was something your
> paper was delving into in it's own incomprehensible way but was
> too poorly written to follow.

I think we touched on this in another thread a long time ago. At what point does a behavior become instinctive--encoded in our DNA, so to speak? And how does that happen?

This was brought up in one of my Facebook groups just a few days ago as well--the example was brought up about birds in different parts of the world knowing when to migrate and where to migrate to, etc.



In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like earth. ~ Margaret Atwood

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 266 drrayeye 14-Nov-13 15:59
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 163 brucenyc1 14-Nov-13 17:13
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 131 drrayeye 14-Nov-13 17:26
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 174 brucenyc1 14-Nov-13 18:58
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 138 drrayeye 14-Nov-13 21:11
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 162 Aine 14-Nov-13 19:45
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 177 drrayeye 14-Nov-13 21:25
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 181 Aine 15-Nov-13 13:43
Science vs. wissenschaft 252 drrayeye 16-Nov-13 08:15
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 126 Eddie Larry 15-Nov-13 03:06
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 103 drrayeye 15-Nov-13 06:34
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 148 Eddie Larry 16-Nov-13 00:22
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 179 Titus Livius 16-Nov-13 18:02
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 152 drrayeye 17-Nov-13 01:06
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 145 eyeofhorus33 16-Nov-13 18:34
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 152 drrayeye 17-Nov-13 01:11
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 128 cladking 17-Nov-13 03:11
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 179 Sirius7237 18-Nov-13 04:26
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 197 Don Carroll 18-Nov-13 20:11
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 132 Sirius7237 18-Nov-13 22:34
Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 204 Dr. Lew Graham 19-Nov-13 03:44
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 121 Sirius7237 19-Nov-13 07:52
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 156 Aine 19-Nov-13 13:54
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 170 carolb 19-Nov-13 14:17
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 196 Aine 19-Nov-13 14:48
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 173 JonnyMcA 19-Nov-13 15:11
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 167 Sirius7237 19-Nov-13 16:54
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 134 Aine 19-Nov-13 17:37
Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 117 Sirius7237 20-Nov-13 03:15
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 178 Aine 20-Nov-13 18:28
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 159 Don Carroll 20-Nov-13 21:25
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 155 Sirfiroth 21-Nov-13 00:58
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 175 Don Carroll 22-Nov-13 22:33
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 183 cladking 23-Nov-13 01:11
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 146 Don Carroll 23-Nov-13 01:46
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 108 Sirius7237 21-Nov-13 18:50
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 232 Don Carroll 23-Nov-13 00:15
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 193 Sirius7237 21-Nov-13 05:48
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 163 Aine 22-Nov-13 14:20
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 162 Sirius7237 22-Nov-13 18:56
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 160 Aine 03-Dec-13 14:15
Great Australian News Link! 162 Dr. Lew Graham 04-Dec-13 07:03
Re: Great Australian News Link! 144 Aine 04-Dec-13 12:38
Re: Great Australian News Link! 123 Sirius7237 04-Dec-13 20:45
Re: Great Australian News Link! 158 Aine 05-Dec-13 12:45
Re: Great Australian News Link! 151 Sirius7237 05-Dec-13 17:53
Re: Great Australian News Link! 157 Aine 06-Dec-13 15:12
A "Mechanism"? 186 Dr. Lew Graham 04-Dec-13 22:01
Re: A "Mechanism"? 158 Aine 05-Dec-13 12:46
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 156 D-Archer 24-Nov-13 10:49
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 168 D-Archer 24-Nov-13 10:44
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 172 Eddie Larry 24-Nov-13 15:03
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 131 cladking 24-Nov-13 16:13
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 174 laughin 08-Dec-13 16:34
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 141 David Campbell 09-Dec-13 22:15
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 144 cladking 10-Dec-13 03:21


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