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Aine wrote:

> Mitochondria would be a perfect example of this. All the
> evidence points to the mitochondria being an invading or
> captured entity now in an endosymbiotic relationship with the
> host cell. We couldn't live two minutes without them now, and
> yet they were once an independent life form on their own.

Chloroplasts too. Once a free living organism which evolved the capacity to harvest energy from the sun and turn it into structural sugars. They probably gravitated to colonies of primitive algae-like cells for protection and a symbiotic relationship ensued where each became completely dependent on the other.

> When we die, our composite cells die, too, and break down into
> their constituent atoms and molecules, whether they're brain
> cells, skin cells, blood cells, etc. They then flit off to
> become part of something else. Take the "bio" out of it, and it
> really is just plain chemistry.

Especially when you consider that individual cells within an organism - the self within a Universe of billions of other selves-are able to communicate with each other through electro-chemical signalling systems such as depolarization of cell membranes and chemical signals such as hormones which work on complex feedback loops.

This works to the point where certain cells, often located great distances from the target cell can signal other cells to die, and the targets cells just go right ahead and die for the good of the organism. This would seem to go against the instinct for self-preservation for individual cells but that is what happens.

All this seemingly happens without consciousness but at the molecular level where there would seem to be force driving it other than charge distribution and the drive to greater and greater disorder in the form of entropy - very mysterious.

> Maybe we should all take a moment and say thank you to all the
> hundreds of millions of cells we have. Without them, the larger
> organism couldn't function and wouldn't even exist.

Amen, saying thanks now.

> There are some things some of us aren't wired to understand. I
> think this is one of them LOL

Anyway, found this article in live science that explains some of the concepts the paper you found was presenting only this is actually written in English so it can be understood. Maybe this will help ease the head ache pain and stop the swelling from trying to read the other one. I finally gave up trying to make sense of something that was almost impossible to read. I am not sure that I agree with one of their conclusions that humans are the only self-aware species on the planet but that is for another thread.

[www.livescience.com]

Hope that helps, :-)

I had another thought too about what we call, for lack of a better term, instinct in animals. This seems to me to be kind of a mysterious form of behavior that would be difficult to explain without some kind of quantum cellular memory passed down through Darwinian mechanisms, which was something your paper was delving into in it's own incomprehensible way but was too poorly written to follow.

More on this later if you are interested..........



Post Edited (21-Nov-13 18:11)

"with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back"

~Hunter S. Thompson

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 267 drrayeye 14-Nov-13 15:59
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 163 brucenyc1 14-Nov-13 17:13
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 132 drrayeye 14-Nov-13 17:26
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 174 brucenyc1 14-Nov-13 18:58
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 138 drrayeye 14-Nov-13 21:11
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 163 Aine 14-Nov-13 19:45
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 178 drrayeye 14-Nov-13 21:25
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 182 Aine 15-Nov-13 13:43
Science vs. wissenschaft 253 drrayeye 16-Nov-13 08:15
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 126 Eddie Larry 15-Nov-13 03:06
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 104 drrayeye 15-Nov-13 06:34
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 149 Eddie Larry 16-Nov-13 00:22
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 180 Titus Livius 16-Nov-13 18:02
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 152 drrayeye 17-Nov-13 01:06
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 146 eyeofhorus33 16-Nov-13 18:34
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 153 drrayeye 17-Nov-13 01:11
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 128 cladking 17-Nov-13 03:11
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 180 Sirius7237 18-Nov-13 04:26
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 198 Don Carroll 18-Nov-13 20:11
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 133 Sirius7237 18-Nov-13 22:34
Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 204 Dr. Lew Graham 19-Nov-13 03:44
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 121 Sirius7237 19-Nov-13 07:52
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 157 Aine 19-Nov-13 13:54
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 170 carolb 19-Nov-13 14:17
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 197 Aine 19-Nov-13 14:48
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 173 JonnyMcA 19-Nov-13 15:11
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 167 Sirius7237 19-Nov-13 16:54
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 135 Aine 19-Nov-13 17:37
Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 117 Sirius7237 20-Nov-13 03:15
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 178 Aine 20-Nov-13 18:28
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 159 Don Carroll 20-Nov-13 21:25
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 155 Sirfiroth 21-Nov-13 00:58
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 175 Don Carroll 22-Nov-13 22:33
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 183 cladking 23-Nov-13 01:11
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 146 Don Carroll 23-Nov-13 01:46
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 109 Sirius7237 21-Nov-13 18:50
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 232 Don Carroll 23-Nov-13 00:15
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 193 Sirius7237 21-Nov-13 05:48
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 164 Aine 22-Nov-13 14:20
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 162 Sirius7237 22-Nov-13 18:56
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 161 Aine 03-Dec-13 14:15
Great Australian News Link! 162 Dr. Lew Graham 04-Dec-13 07:03
Re: Great Australian News Link! 145 Aine 04-Dec-13 12:38
Re: Great Australian News Link! 123 Sirius7237 04-Dec-13 20:45
Re: Great Australian News Link! 158 Aine 05-Dec-13 12:45
Re: Great Australian News Link! 152 Sirius7237 05-Dec-13 17:53
Re: Great Australian News Link! 158 Aine 06-Dec-13 15:12
A "Mechanism"? 186 Dr. Lew Graham 04-Dec-13 22:01
Re: A "Mechanism"? 158 Aine 05-Dec-13 12:46
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 156 D-Archer 24-Nov-13 10:49
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 169 D-Archer 24-Nov-13 10:44
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 172 Eddie Larry 24-Nov-13 15:03
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 132 cladking 24-Nov-13 16:13
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 175 laughin 08-Dec-13 16:34
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 142 David Campbell 09-Dec-13 22:15
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 145 cladking 10-Dec-13 03:21


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