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drrayeye wrote:


> > So, do you also adhere to Kuhn's Eurocentrism and ignore the
> > non-Hellenistic influence of other cultures on the history of
> > science? I'll remind you that the reason the cradles of
> > science--specifically the Middle East--fell behind is because
> > of one thing: religion.
>
> RAY: the part that I embrace is paradigm shifts through
> empirical falsification--the data driven part.

Except for one thing: Maybe paradigms as you and Kuhn describe aren't nearly as entrenched as believed. Science is constantly revising its theories as new evidence is discovered. We only hear about the most stubborn: geocentrism, plate tectonics, climate change, Clovis First.

> RAY: Caltech's motto is "The truth shall make you free."
>
> Do you honestly think that they are making a philosophical
> statement?

Yes. Freedom is also a philosophical concept.

> > I do not view God as a Creator of any kind. The logical
> > failures of such a position are just too much.
>
> RAY; As a scientist, I agree. As a Christian, I strongly
> disagree.

And your faith is stronger than your common sense. No offense, Ray, but you'd have a really hard time in a hard science. Not that there aren't people in those sciences that aren't spiritual or religious; there are. But they don't wear it on their sleeves. It's kind of hard to disbelieve evolution when you see it happening in front of your eyes every day. Or that the rings of Saturn have a natural explanation that can be accounted for by the laws of physics.

Think Spinoza and that more or less encapsulates what I believe. I don't distinguish between God and the natural world. God doesn't have intelligence, or personality (much less being a narcissistic egomaniac as he is in the OT), or intent, plans, or purposes for us, and there's no way he could love or hate anyone.

> RAY: that's essentially "intelligent design." I don't like
> that as much, but I can accept it to some extent.

No, it's not "intelligent design" in any sense. There is no intelligent force driving it at all. It's simply that our universe obeys the laws of physics as dictated by this particular universe (assuming other universes exist). We exist in it because we evolved to its conditions.


> RAY; The concept of Creator and Intelligent Design are things
> that I sense spiritually--not things that I could even begin to
> test with data.

That's the problem. It can't be tested. That's not the reason I reject it, though. And I do allow for the possibility that I could be wrong--I never could make the leap into pure atheism, so I sit comfortably on the altar of agnosticism. Could there be a creator? Sure. The probability for or against never reaches zero, after all. I just don't see why there HAS to be one.

> So, I sort of both agree and disagree--I am a Gemini, you know.

There's a scary thought. LOL So am I. :O:



In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like earth. ~ Margaret Atwood

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 266 drrayeye 14-Nov-13 15:59
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 163 brucenyc1 14-Nov-13 17:13
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 132 drrayeye 14-Nov-13 17:26
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 174 brucenyc1 14-Nov-13 18:58
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 138 drrayeye 14-Nov-13 21:11
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 163 Aine 14-Nov-13 19:45
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 177 drrayeye 14-Nov-13 21:25
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 181 Aine 15-Nov-13 13:43
Science vs. wissenschaft 253 drrayeye 16-Nov-13 08:15
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 126 Eddie Larry 15-Nov-13 03:06
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 103 drrayeye 15-Nov-13 06:34
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 148 Eddie Larry 16-Nov-13 00:22
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 179 Titus Livius 16-Nov-13 18:02
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 152 drrayeye 17-Nov-13 01:06
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 146 eyeofhorus33 16-Nov-13 18:34
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 153 drrayeye 17-Nov-13 01:11
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 128 cladking 17-Nov-13 03:11
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 180 Sirius7237 18-Nov-13 04:26
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 198 Don Carroll 18-Nov-13 20:11
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 132 Sirius7237 18-Nov-13 22:34
Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 204 Dr. Lew Graham 19-Nov-13 03:44
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 121 Sirius7237 19-Nov-13 07:52
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 157 Aine 19-Nov-13 13:54
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 170 carolb 19-Nov-13 14:17
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 196 Aine 19-Nov-13 14:48
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 173 JonnyMcA 19-Nov-13 15:11
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 167 Sirius7237 19-Nov-13 16:54
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 134 Aine 19-Nov-13 17:37
Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 117 Sirius7237 20-Nov-13 03:15
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 178 Aine 20-Nov-13 18:28
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 159 Don Carroll 20-Nov-13 21:25
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 155 Sirfiroth 21-Nov-13 00:58
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 175 Don Carroll 22-Nov-13 22:33
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 183 cladking 23-Nov-13 01:11
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 146 Don Carroll 23-Nov-13 01:46
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 109 Sirius7237 21-Nov-13 18:50
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 232 Don Carroll 23-Nov-13 00:15
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 193 Sirius7237 21-Nov-13 05:48
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 164 Aine 22-Nov-13 14:20
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 162 Sirius7237 22-Nov-13 18:56
Re: Quantum evolution of entangled particles in neural nets and consciousness! 161 Aine 03-Dec-13 14:15
Great Australian News Link! 162 Dr. Lew Graham 04-Dec-13 07:03
Re: Great Australian News Link! 144 Aine 04-Dec-13 12:38
Re: Great Australian News Link! 123 Sirius7237 04-Dec-13 20:45
Re: Great Australian News Link! 158 Aine 05-Dec-13 12:45
Re: Great Australian News Link! 151 Sirius7237 05-Dec-13 17:53
Re: Great Australian News Link! 157 Aine 06-Dec-13 15:12
A "Mechanism"? 186 Dr. Lew Graham 04-Dec-13 22:01
Re: A "Mechanism"? 158 Aine 05-Dec-13 12:46
Re: Separated electron pairs remain "connected" with respect to opposite polarity 156 D-Archer 24-Nov-13 10:49
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 169 D-Archer 24-Nov-13 10:44
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 172 Eddie Larry 24-Nov-13 15:03
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 132 cladking 24-Nov-13 16:13
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 174 laughin 08-Dec-13 16:34
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 141 David Campbell 09-Dec-13 22:15
Re: Can one be both a scientist and a spiritualist? 145 cladking 10-Dec-13 03:21


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