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I guess it does get confusing; that could be part of the game or the sleight.

The way the secret society evolved, even with offshoots, speaks a disconcerting and disturbing history... sometimes protective of the freethinking heretics and serious scientists and artists, this occurring in the heydays of the Inquisition, absolute monarchy, and noble or wealthy houses seeking power. There was a problem with the way money and wealth was flowing, with the price of power for both Church, monarch, and noble being indebtedness to those in orders like the Knights Templar, and desire for the wealth of other areas and groups like the Cathars, the Medicis, etc. Between the lust for power and autonomy over people's bodies, minds, and souls; and the greed for wealth in order to maintain this power through standing and mercenary armies and wars, the secret societies would have had to resort to very arcane, codified, and obfuscatory smoke and mirrors both to keep its members alive but also its purpose, to protect, save, and hide true scientists and classical learning, as well as those the Church considered heretical or overly free thinking. Esoterica, arcana, alchemy, sacred geometry, secret rites, codes, and even perhaps a kind of spiritual belief system were all involved in the society's schema and modus operandi, though probably not all at once or in the same intensity or density, depending on the place and time and the people involved.

Over the years, the secret society devolved, due to the weakening of the monarchy, revolution, and the formation of Protestant or dissident religious factions. As the monarchy lost power, if not its name, and the Church lost its military and state function, the secret societies also lost their former raison d'etre, no longer needing to protect or hide the geniuses carrying the torch of rational science and free thinking. Thus, we see the rise of the esoteric, the arcane, the alchemical, and the rites to become ends or means in themselves; and members and their satellite groupies, mostly artists and musicians, became more interested in their own individual success and wealth. Yes, we see some very marvelous and interesting associations forming between artists, musicians, writers, and politicians, more and more interwoven with the theosophical, spiritualist, occult movement. At that point it gets nasty, anti-Semitic, more and more Aryan, Euro-centric, and difficult to defend or assess. That's why people like Plantard and others had to invent a dynasty and a way of deflecting their ties with Nazism and other insider schemes for gaining wealth and power for their members. The Bush family connection shows a little how this has worked in the latter half of the twentieth century.

Now, as you say, the rules or processes of alchemy, with its specialized and arcane language, can indeed be used to describe psychological and spiritual transformations in individual humans. Jung spent a lot of time and effort doing just that. I suppose it's fine to look at the metaphorical and symbolic aspects of the old "science" as interesting and informative in that sense. But poetry, drama, and prose can do the same thing, along with music; and so can the teachings of any mystical or spiritual tradition.

What's important, in my view, is keeping a balance between the reality and the mystical, and to keep the physical history separate from the psychologican and spiritual. Not to do so invites the same mistakes and perils that gave rise to Nazism, and is giving rise to the vicious social darwinism and corporo-fascism that neocons and Christian fundies are perpetrating on this country and the world... and these powerful people belong to the secret societies that many want to romanticize or demonize, instead of taking a good hard look at what's really going on.

ananda

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Mysticism and Knights Templars 549 Melusine 26-Feb-04 04:39
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 294 Mark Staab 26-Feb-04 05:21
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 229 Melusine 26-Feb-04 13:31
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 229 Kboldt 26-Feb-04 15:52
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 175 Melusine 26-Feb-04 18:23
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 266 Dominick Ohrbeck 15-Mar-04 18:35
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 263 Milo 26-Feb-04 15:58
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 222 Melusine 26-Feb-04 18:28
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 289 Milo 26-Feb-04 19:43
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 220 Melusine 26-Feb-04 21:06
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 231 Milo 26-Feb-04 21:13
Re: I found an interesting site for you Milo 331 Melusine 28-Feb-04 17:41
Re: I found an interesting site for you Milo 212 Milo 28-Feb-04 18:11
Re: I found an interesting site for you Milo 224 Melusine 28-Feb-04 18:21
Will do, thanks! n/t 237 Milo 28-Feb-04 18:29
Smokescreen for science and wealth? 214 ananda 02-Mar-04 15:46
Re: Smokescreen for science and wealth? 212 Milo 02-Mar-04 19:19
Re: Smokescreen for science and wealth? 226 Kboldt 02-Mar-04 20:24
Re: Smokescreen for science and wealth? 210 Milo 02-Mar-04 20:58
I forgot to add... 223 Milo 02-Mar-04 21:05
Re: I forgot to add... 271 Kboldt 02-Mar-04 21:28
Superiority raises its ugly head 197 Archietype 03-Mar-04 08:12
Re: Superiority raises its ugly head 233 Milo 03-Mar-04 15:10
Re: Superiority raises its ugly head 249 Archietype 04-Mar-04 17:25
Re: Superiority raises its ugly head 233 Milo 04-Mar-04 17:48
Re: writing 296 Archietype 04-Mar-04 18:31
Re: Superiority raises its ugly head 230 Mark Staab 04-Mar-04 18:08
Re: Smokescreen for science and wealth? 255 Alatariel 04-Mar-04 00:42
Re: Smokescreen for science and wealth? 218 Melusine 04-Mar-04 01:10
Over the Rainbow... 286 Milo 04-Mar-04 01:26
Re: Over the Rainbow... 292 Melusine 04-Mar-04 01:39
Re: Smokescreen for science and wealth? 249 Lee McGiffen 04-Mar-04 09:32
Re: Smokescreen for science and wealth? 236 Melusine 04-Mar-04 09:48
Re: Smokescreen for science and wealth? 297 Milo 04-Mar-04 01:13
Re: Smokescreen for science and wealth? 229 Melusine 04-Mar-04 10:04
Re: Smokescreen for science and wealth? 289 Melusine 04-Mar-04 10:07
My two cents... 258 Milo 04-Mar-04 16:16
Re: My two cents... 232 Kboldt 04-Mar-04 18:09
Re: My two cents... 169 Milo 04-Mar-04 19:23
Re: My two cents... 196 Kboldt 04-Mar-04 19:32
Re: My two cents... 281 Milo 04-Mar-04 20:30
Re: My two cents... 265 Melusine 05-Mar-04 09:30
Re: My two cents... 167 Kboldt 05-Mar-04 13:49
Re: My two cents... 205 Melusine 04-Mar-04 21:46
Re: My two cents... 149 Milo 04-Mar-04 22:32
On further thought... 217 Milo 05-Mar-04 06:08
Re: On further thought... 272 Melusine 06-Mar-04 15:29
Re: On further thought... 219 Milo 06-Mar-04 16:55
Re: My two cents too 178 Alatariel 05-Mar-04 01:30
Re: My two cents too 207 Milo 05-Mar-04 02:09
Re: My two cents too 204 debraregypt 07-Mar-04 17:27
Re: My two cents too 188 Milo 07-Mar-04 18:31
Re: My two cents too 266 Melusine 09-Mar-04 07:41
Re: My two cents too 251 Milo 09-Mar-04 08:07
Re: My two cents too 206 Mark Staab 09-Mar-04 08:56
Re: My two cents too 222 Melusine 09-Mar-04 22:13
Re: My two cents too 251 debraregypt 10-Mar-04 01:08
Re: My two cents too 214 Milo 10-Mar-04 01:19
Re: My two cents too 258 Kboldt 10-Mar-04 15:01
Big Misunderstanding!!! 273 Milo 10-Mar-04 16:59
Re: Big Misunderstanding!!! 245 Kboldt 10-Mar-04 17:36
Some more cents... 191 Anthony Taylor 09-Mar-04 19:37
Re: Some more cents... 208 Milo 09-Mar-04 20:12
Re: Some more cents... 218 Melusine 09-Mar-04 22:22
Re: Smokescreen for science and wealth? 159 Alatariel 05-Mar-04 01:23
Re: Smokescreen for science and wealth? 235 Milo 05-Mar-04 02:36
Re: Smokescreen for science and wealth? 271 smetters 05-Mar-04 13:31
The Message of the Marriage of Cana 280 Kboldt 05-Mar-04 17:08
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 247 smetters 05-Mar-04 17:30
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 201 Kboldt 08-Mar-04 13:52
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 237 smetters 08-Mar-04 17:47
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 260 Kboldt 08-Mar-04 19:49
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 290 Alatariel 08-Mar-04 22:40
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 268 Melusine 09-Mar-04 08:20
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 284 smetters 09-Mar-04 13:27
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 232 Kboldt 09-Mar-04 13:45
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 175 Mark Staab 09-Mar-04 15:02
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 288 smetters 09-Mar-04 15:31
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 233 Mark Staab 09-Mar-04 15:57
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 255 smetters 09-Mar-04 16:54
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 208 Melusine 09-Mar-04 22:37
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 186 Mark Staab 10-Mar-04 01:42
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 226 Melusine 11-Mar-04 01:52
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 220 Mark Staab 11-Mar-04 07:03
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 262 Mark Staab 09-Mar-04 16:35
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 146 Melusine 09-Mar-04 22:32
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 222 smetters 10-Mar-04 10:45
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 197 smetters 09-Mar-04 15:18
I for got this part... 274 Kboldt 05-Mar-04 18:03
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 270 Milo 05-Mar-04 18:21
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 240 Alatariel 07-Mar-04 03:16
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 327 Milo 07-Mar-04 04:13
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 192 David L 07-Mar-04 05:30
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 207 Milo 07-Mar-04 05:35
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 205 David L 07-Mar-04 05:48
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 202 Milo 07-Mar-04 06:20
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 269 Melusine 11-Mar-04 02:05
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 190 Kboldt 08-Mar-04 14:53
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 248 Milo 08-Mar-04 16:16
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 274 Alatariel 07-Mar-04 15:58
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 235 David L 07-Mar-04 05:36
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 291 Melusine 11-Mar-04 02:03
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 271 Nebankh 07-Mar-04 22:30
Re: The Message of the Marriage of Cana 223 Melusine 11-Mar-04 04:00
Re: Smokescreen for science and wealth? 208 ananda 04-Mar-04 13:10
Re: Smokescreen for science and wealth? 210 smetters 04-Mar-04 13:34
Re: Smokescreen for science and wealth? 275 ananda 02-Mar-04 23:14
Feudalism is still with us, thanks to the secret socieites 273 Milo 02-Mar-04 23:40
Re: Smokescreen for science and wealth? 213 Melusine 03-Mar-04 03:01
Re: Smokescreen for science and wealth? 291 ananda 03-Mar-04 03:36
The Biblical struggle against the anti-Christ 268 Milo 03-Mar-04 04:25
Re: The Biblical struggle against the anti-Christ 184 Melusine 03-Mar-04 11:50
Re: The Biblical struggle against the anti-Christ 249 Milo 03-Mar-04 15:21
Re: The Biblical struggle against the anti-Christ 210 Melusine 04-Mar-04 01:46
Re: The Biblical struggle against the anti-Christ 257 Milo 04-Mar-04 02:03
Re: The Biblical struggle against the anti-Christ 268 Melusine 04-Mar-04 09:52
Re: The Biblical struggle against the anti-Christ 259 Milo 04-Mar-04 16:45
Re: The Biblical struggle against the anti-Christ 201 Melusine 04-Mar-04 19:54
Re: The Biblical struggle against the anti-Christ 191 Milo 04-Mar-04 20:28
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 214 smetters 03-Mar-04 20:49
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 218 Alatariel 04-Mar-04 00:52
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 257 Melusine 04-Mar-04 01:57
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 192 Alatariel 08-Mar-04 00:03
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 265 Melusine 09-Mar-04 08:00
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 264 Melusine 04-Mar-04 01:37
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 299 smetters 04-Mar-04 13:45
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 261 Melusine 04-Mar-04 16:08
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 218 smetters 04-Mar-04 18:34
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 204 ananda 04-Mar-04 18:47
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 244 Melusine 04-Mar-04 19:45
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 215 Melusine 05-Mar-04 10:07
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 281 smetters 05-Mar-04 12:46
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 207 Melusine 05-Mar-04 16:09
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 241 smetters 05-Mar-04 16:35
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 169 Alatariel 05-Mar-04 00:58
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 197 ArmchairObserver 05-Mar-04 09:28
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 231 Milo 04-Mar-04 17:01
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 193 smetters 04-Mar-04 19:00
Lucifer and the Great Work 205 Milo 04-Mar-04 20:16
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 155 Anne-Marie 05-Mar-04 07:01
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 222 Melusine 05-Mar-04 19:41
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 246 Milo 06-Mar-04 02:07
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 266 ArmchairObserver 06-Mar-04 09:13
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 233 Milo 06-Mar-04 17:02
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 181 ArmchairObserver 06-Mar-04 18:33
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 177 Milo 06-Mar-04 19:40
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 262 Anne-Marie 07-Mar-04 00:09
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 200 Milo 07-Mar-04 01:14
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 234 Anne-Marie 07-Mar-04 07:22
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 254 Milo 07-Mar-04 09:02
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 244 Melusine 11-Mar-04 03:53
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 248 Milo 11-Mar-04 05:43
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 186 ArmchairObserver 07-Mar-04 03:19
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 246 Milo 07-Mar-04 04:07
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 201 ArmchairObserver 07-Mar-04 06:27
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 293 Milo 07-Mar-04 09:51
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 184 ArmchairObserver 07-Mar-04 21:10
The Grail Bloodline Drank Menstrual Blood 691 Milo 07-Mar-04 22:30
Re: The Grail Bloodline Drank Menstrual Blood 214 ArmchairObserver 08-Mar-04 03:28
Re: The Grail Bloodline Drank Menstrual Blood 211 Milo 08-Mar-04 04:12
Re: The Grail Bloodline Drank Menstrual Blood 290 ArmchairObserver 08-Mar-04 05:10
Re: The Grail Bloodline Drank Menstrual Blood 226 Milo 08-Mar-04 05:29
Re: The Grail Bloodline Drank Menstrual Blood 193 Alatariel 08-Mar-04 12:40
Re: The Grail Bloodline Drank Menstrual Blood 228 Milo 08-Mar-04 16:21
Re: The Grail Bloodline Drank Menstrual Blood 248 ArmchairObserver 08-Mar-04 16:32
Re: The Grail Bloodline Drank Menstrual Blood 175 Mark Staab 08-Mar-04 20:31
PPS 204 Mark Staab 08-Mar-04 20:38
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 202 smetters 08-Mar-04 18:12
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 271 ArmchairObserver 08-Mar-04 20:04
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 200 smetters 09-Mar-04 12:23
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 202 ArmchairObserver 09-Mar-04 19:57
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 261 smetters 10-Mar-04 17:41
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 214 ArmchairObserver 10-Mar-04 18:36
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 216 smetters 11-Mar-04 13:03
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 249 ArmchairObserver 11-Mar-04 18:57
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 263 smetters 12-Mar-04 12:15
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 196 Melusine 09-Mar-04 22:54
Re: Left-Handed and Red Hair 281 Kboldt 09-Mar-04 23:00
Re: Left-Handed and Red Hair 297 ArmchairObserver 10-Mar-04 06:54
Re: Left-Handed and Red Hair 211 Briffits 10-Mar-04 08:21
Re: Left-Handed and Red Hair 178 ArmchairObserver 10-Mar-04 18:38
Re: Left-Handed and Red Hair 228 Artificer 10-Mar-04 23:35
Re: Left-Handed and Red Hair 187 smetters 11-Mar-04 12:50
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 250 ArmchairObserver 10-Mar-04 07:15
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 188 Melusine 11-Mar-04 02:36
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 194 ArmchairObserver 11-Mar-04 05:13
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 248 Milo 11-Mar-04 05:50
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 245 ArmchairObserver 11-Mar-04 21:43
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 227 Milo 12-Mar-04 01:13
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 221 ArmchairObserver 12-Mar-04 04:56
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 189 Melusine 06-Mar-04 14:45
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 238 Milo 06-Mar-04 17:04
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 228 Melusine 06-Mar-04 19:16
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 204 Milo 06-Mar-04 20:14
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 169 Melusine 06-Mar-04 20:32
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 186 Milo 06-Mar-04 21:01
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 236 smetters 05-Mar-04 13:25
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 281 Milo 05-Mar-04 18:18
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 170 smetters 08-Mar-04 17:54
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 193 Milo 08-Mar-04 22:35
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 217 smetters 09-Mar-04 12:28
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 223 Melusine 05-Mar-04 20:11
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 211 Alatariel 07-Mar-04 03:54
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 194 David L 07-Mar-04 04:59
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 248 Milo 07-Mar-04 05:07
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 165 David L 07-Mar-04 05:09
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 236 Milo 07-Mar-04 05:16
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 212 smetters 08-Mar-04 13:50
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 243 Milo 08-Mar-04 16:25
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 202 Milo 08-Mar-04 16:27
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 270 Kboldt 08-Mar-04 16:31
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 237 smetters 08-Mar-04 17:29
Re: Lucifer and the Great Work 250 smetters 08-Mar-04 17:56
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 204 David L 07-Mar-04 04:07
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 253 Milo 07-Mar-04 04:22
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 200 David L 07-Mar-04 04:52
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 242 Milo 07-Mar-04 05:03
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 250 David L 07-Mar-04 05:07
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 217 Milo 07-Mar-04 05:18
Mod comment 172 ArmchairObserver 07-Mar-04 06:57
Re: Mod comment 213 Milo 07-Mar-04 09:55
Re: Mod comment 283 ArmchairObserver 07-Mar-04 18:24
Re: Mod comment 297 Milo 07-Mar-04 18:44
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 189 smetters 08-Mar-04 13:31
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 212 David L 08-Mar-04 15:16
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 211 smetters 08-Mar-04 17:00
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 177 David L 07-Mar-04 04:34
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 257 Milo 07-Mar-04 04:58
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 205 David L 07-Mar-04 05:03
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 205 Milo 07-Mar-04 05:11
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 193 Melusine 11-Mar-04 03:57
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 188 Milo 11-Mar-04 06:08
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 240 Melusine 15-Mar-04 23:44
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 191 Milo 16-Mar-04 00:10
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 254 Milo 16-Mar-04 00:50
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 274 Melusine 17-Mar-04 03:00
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 246 Milo 17-Mar-04 06:25
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 239 Melusine 17-Mar-04 23:15
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 222 Milo 17-Mar-04 23:59
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 459 Joyeuse 18-Mar-04 00:38
Re: Mysticism and Knights Templars 209 Dominick Ohrbeck 12-Mar-04 07:38
Templar Cross at Temple of Karnak, Egypt 189 fisherman 15-Mar-04 23:50
fixed link 193 Dominick Ohrbeck 12-Mar-04 18:09
Re: fixed link 208 Melusine 15-Mar-04 23:31
Re: fixed link 211 Dominick Ohrbeck 16-Mar-04 01:47
Re: fixed link 242 Dominick Ohrbeck 17-Mar-04 18:00


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