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The Vicarious Atonement is a con trick perpetuated by ignorant church leaders. The concept that Jesus died on the cross to save others from their sins is false and not what he himself preached about.

The Master taught that we "reap what we sow". We are either totally responsible for our sins or we are not - there can be no shades of grey in between.

What do other feel about this issue?

Cheers,
Fuzzy

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Subject Views Written By Posted
The Vicarious Atonement 627 Richard Fusniak 12-Feb-04 02:38
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 159 Dominick Ohrbeck 12-Feb-04 02:57
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 202 SunSword 17-Feb-04 01:18
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 141 Dominick Ohrbeck 18-Feb-04 21:08
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 116 Milo 12-Feb-04 03:27
Saviour concept a Jewish expectation 161 Richard Fusniak 12-Feb-04 11:17
Re: Saviour concept a Jewish expectation 200 Milo 12-Feb-04 15:25
Re: Saviour concept a Jewish expectation 138 Prue 12-Feb-04 17:17
Re: Saviour concept a Jewish expectation 134 Richard Fusniak 13-Feb-04 00:48
Re: Saviour concept a Jewish expectation 165 Dominick Ohrbeck 13-Feb-04 03:16
Re: Saviour concept a Jewish expectation 149 Prue 13-Feb-04 03:30
Re: Saviour concept a Jewish expectation 115 Mark Staab 13-Feb-04 04:20
Re: Saviour concept a Jewish expectation 148 Dominick Ohrbeck 13-Feb-04 07:08
Re: Saviour concept a Jewish expectation 159 Richard Fusniak 13-Feb-04 10:54
Re: Saviour concept a Jewish expectation 148 Prue 13-Feb-04 17:45
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 177 Zosimos 12-Feb-04 03:32
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 120 Milo 12-Feb-04 03:52
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 155 Prue 12-Feb-04 05:24
The Divine Comedy and the Harrowing of Hell 173 Milo 12-Feb-04 06:49
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 105 Saorsa 12-Feb-04 09:45
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 159 Milo 12-Feb-04 15:27
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 157 Saorsa 12-Feb-04 15:39
Riddles 155 Richard Fusniak 12-Feb-04 16:13
Re: Riddles 160 Milo 12-Feb-04 16:30
Re: Riddles 149 Ian MacFarlane 12-Feb-04 18:11
Re: Riddles 172 Milo 12-Feb-04 18:23
Re: Riddles 150 Ian MacFarlane 13-Feb-04 02:00
Re: Riddles 123 Milo 13-Feb-04 02:10
Re: Riddles 150 Ian MacFarlane 13-Feb-04 02:32
Re: Riddles 158 Milo 13-Feb-04 04:11
Key of life or the key of death 156 Richard Fusniak 12-Feb-04 18:52
Re: Key of life or the key of death 143 Milo 12-Feb-04 19:02
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 144 Mark Staab 12-Feb-04 23:45
I AM The Way, The Truth And The Life 157 Thirdwave 12-Feb-04 11:15
Paul and salvation 203 Richard Fusniak 12-Feb-04 11:21
Do As I Say 171 Thirdwave 12-Feb-04 11:25
Re: Do As I Say 139 Richard Fusniak 12-Feb-04 11:28
Re: Do As I Say 149 Thirdwave 12-Feb-04 11:31
Re: Do As I Say 154 Milo 12-Feb-04 16:10
Re: Do As I Say 126 Thirdwave 12-Feb-04 17:32
Re: Do As I Say 159 Milo 12-Feb-04 17:44
On Conscience ... 152 Thirdwave 13-Feb-04 18:49
Re: On Conscience ... 165 Milo 13-Feb-04 20:06
Re: On Conscience ... 149 Thirdwave 15-Feb-04 18:16
Re: On Conscience ... 111 Milo 15-Feb-04 18:37
Paul: Not a Bigot Afterall... 159 Cleopatra 17-Feb-04 17:42
Re: Paul: Not a Bigot Afterall... 184 David L 17-Feb-04 23:11
Re: The day of atonement 167 laughin 12-Feb-04 15:42
Re: The day of atonement 203 Milo 12-Feb-04 16:08
Day of Atonement/Yom Kippur 173 Cleopatra 18-Feb-04 14:19
Matthew 20:28 177 Cleopatra 18-Feb-04 15:37
Re: Matthew 20:28 156 Milo 18-Feb-04 16:30
Ah-Ha!!! "Ransom" had a different meaning back then... 140 Cleopatra 19-Feb-04 18:05
Whoops...meant to say she asked for them to sit as HIS rgt & lft. n/t. 126 Cleopatra 19-Feb-04 18:19
Re: Ah-Ha!!! "Ransom" had a different meaning back then... 177 Cleopatra 19-Feb-04 18:32
Re: Ah-Ha!!! "Ransom" had a different meaning back then... 180 Milo 19-Feb-04 19:15
Re: Ah-Ha!!! "Ransom" had a different meaning back then... 159 Milo 19-Feb-04 19:07
Re: Ah-Ha!!! "Ransom" had a different meaning back then... 170 SunSword 19-Feb-04 19:13
An apology...with plenty of clarification. 201 Cleopatra 20-Feb-04 11:32
Re: An apology...with plenty of clarification. 151 Milo 20-Feb-04 19:17
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 178 David L 12-Feb-04 19:26
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 181 Milo 12-Feb-04 19:40
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 151 David L 12-Feb-04 20:01
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 110 Milo 12-Feb-04 20:48
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 149 Richard Fusniak 13-Feb-04 00:59
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 144 Milo 13-Feb-04 01:28
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 186 David L 13-Feb-04 03:02
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 153 wirelessguru1 25-Feb-04 01:08
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 143 David L 25-Feb-04 01:49
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 149 Alex S 13-Feb-04 00:09
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 124 Milo 13-Feb-04 00:23
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 183 Alex S 13-Feb-04 03:09
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 147 Lee McGiffen 14-Feb-04 12:08
Ding Dong Bel 133 Richard Fusniak 14-Feb-04 14:13
Re: Ding Dong Bel 139 Milo 14-Feb-04 15:47
Saviours are scapegoats 156 Richard Fusniak 14-Feb-04 18:37
Re: Saviours are scapegoats 169 Milo 14-Feb-04 19:20
Definition of saviour 146 Richard Fusniak 14-Feb-04 19:51
Re: Definition of saviour 137 Milo 14-Feb-04 20:07
Re: Definition of saviour 139 Richard Fusniak 15-Feb-04 00:00
Re: Definition of saviour 160 Milo 15-Feb-04 00:15
Re: Definition of saviour 188 Ian MacFarlane 15-Feb-04 03:23
Re: Definition of saviour 107 Milo 15-Feb-04 04:50
Re: Definition of saviour 151 Richard Fusniak 15-Feb-04 11:25
Re: Definition of saviour 189 Milo 15-Feb-04 13:21
Help and save 153 Richard Fusniak 15-Feb-04 11:33
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 155 SunSword 17-Feb-04 01:55
Theory falls flat on its face 145 Richard Fusniak 17-Feb-04 03:06
Re: Theory falls flat on its face 212 SunSword 17-Feb-04 14:36
Coming down to earth 132 Richard Fusniak 17-Feb-04 15:25
Re: Coming down to earth 136 SunSword 17-Feb-04 18:26
Is there a Holy Spirit? 155 Richard Fusniak 17-Feb-04 20:23
Re: Is there a Holy Spirit? 132 SunSword 18-Feb-04 14:25
Re: Is there a God/Holy Spirit? 171 Nebankh 18-Feb-04 15:52
Re: Coming down to earth 169 David L 18-Feb-04 19:10
Re: Coming down to earth 140 Milo 18-Feb-04 20:45
So who do you think inspired this stuff? 159 David L 19-Feb-04 01:26
What's New? 198 Milo 19-Feb-04 01:56
In context? 143 David L 19-Feb-04 05:08
You're Resorting to Abuse David 154 Milo 19-Feb-04 14:52
Beliefs 195 ArmchairObserver 19-Feb-04 16:32
Thanks! 137 Milo 19-Feb-04 17:21
Re: Thanks 134 Richard Fusniak 20-Feb-04 01:06
Re: Thanks 155 Milo 20-Feb-04 01:09
Re: You're Resorting to Abuse David 133 David L 19-Feb-04 18:07
Re: You're Resorting to Abuse David 146 Milo 19-Feb-04 18:18
Someone should've told Paul 201 David L 19-Feb-04 22:51
Paul was talking about temple prostitutes. n/t 148 Milo 19-Feb-04 23:14
Really? Read this again... 141 David L 20-Feb-04 02:39
Re: Really? Read this again... 156 Milo 20-Feb-04 14:29
Re: Really? Read this again... 143 SunSword 20-Feb-04 15:28
Re: Really? Read this again... 149 Milo 20-Feb-04 15:37
Re: Really? Read this again... 208 SunSword 20-Feb-04 16:35
Re: Really? Read this again... 150 Milo 20-Feb-04 16:56
Re: Really? Read this again... 141 ArmchairObserver 20-Feb-04 19:13
Re: Really? Read this again... 161 Milo 20-Feb-04 19:22
Re: Really? Read this again... 167 SunSword 21-Feb-04 02:15
Re: Really? Read this again... 154 Milo 21-Feb-04 02:44
Re: Really? Read this again... 156 Ian MacFarlane 24-Feb-04 16:04
Re: Really? Read this again... 117 Milo 24-Feb-04 16:19
Re: Really? Read this again... 168 Kboldt 24-Feb-04 17:01
Re: Really? Read this again... 114 Milo 24-Feb-04 17:44
Re: Really? Read this again... 118 Kboldt 24-Feb-04 17:47
Mod remark 174 Kees 24-Feb-04 23:07
Re: Mod remark 122 Milo 25-Feb-04 00:06
Re: Mod remark 157 ArmchairObserver 25-Feb-04 00:24
Re: Mod remark 156 Milo 25-Feb-04 00:48
Re: Mod remark 161 ArmchairObserver 25-Feb-04 07:07
Manners - moderator note 151 Richard Fusniak 25-Feb-04 00:29
Re: Manners - moderator note 156 Milo 25-Feb-04 00:46
Re: Manners - moderator note 154 Thirdwave 25-Feb-04 00:58
Re: Manners - moderator note 149 Milo 25-Feb-04 01:05
Re: Manners - moderator note 114 Kees 25-Feb-04 18:34
Re: Manners - moderator note 159 Milo 25-Feb-04 19:48
Re: Manners - moderator note 284 Kees 25-Feb-04 21:34
Re: Coming down to earth 117 Dominick Ohrbeck 19-Feb-04 07:49
Re: Coming down to earth 138 David L 19-Feb-04 17:53
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 124 Kboldt 23-Feb-04 22:40
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 132 wirelessguru1 25-Feb-04 01:24
Re: The Vicarious Atonement 151 Kboldt 25-Feb-04 15:31


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