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>"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day" (Jn 6:44).

>...The implication also, to me, is that no amount of proselytizing on my part (or Jesus' part, for that matter, two millennia ago) will convince another of his claim to be the Son of God except the Father himself give this person conviction of the same. This would also imply that no written history or oral account has that power either, whether it stem from India, West Africa or the Middle East.

>So then, if you also recognize this, what was the point of the so-called, "Great Commission," to go forth and preach the gospel to the whole world? Why was it necessary to forestall the end until this had been accomplished? Or is this doctrine one of those pearls of consensus got of Constantine's lock-up in Nicaea?"

Well, look at it this way. You are told the story, and if God the Father moves you, you believe it. Or maybe you believe it anyway. Or maybe you don't. But --- if you never HEAR the story, then you don't have the option to believe it, and God the Father never has the chance to convince you. Okay?

And no...there are now enough original manuscripts scientifically dated to the 2nd century AD that scholars have pretty much concluded that the gospels as translated today do accurately reflect the 2nd century manuscripts. Even 50 years ago people could say with conviction that the gospels were manufactured by "the church" in the 4th and 5th centuries, and lots of stuff was added, deleted, or whatever. Today we know that assertion is false.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
The Origin of Christ! 770 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 13:41
Re: The Origin of Christ! 155 Milo 10-Feb-04 16:34
Re: The Origin of Christ! 147 Mark Staab 10-Feb-04 17:20
Re: The Origin of Christ! 200 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 17:26
Re: The Origin of Christ! 208 Mark Staab 10-Feb-04 17:36
Re: The Origin of Christ! 168 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 18:08
Re: The Origin of Christ! 193 Milo 10-Feb-04 17:43
Re: The Origin of Christ! 162 Mark Staab 10-Feb-04 21:53
Re: The Origin of Christ! 203 Milo 10-Feb-04 22:54
Re: The Origin of Christ! 203 Mark Staab 11-Feb-04 03:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 146 Milo 11-Feb-04 04:57
For Mark Staab !!! 190 Milo 13-Feb-04 00:01
Re: For Mark Staab !!! 148 Mark Staab 13-Feb-04 00:31
Re: For Mark Staab !!! 119 Milo 13-Feb-04 01:16
Re: For Mark Staab !!! 224 Mark Staab 13-Feb-04 02:40
Re: For Mark Staab !!! 169 Milo 13-Feb-04 05:25
Re-search 176 Mark Staab 13-Feb-04 07:36
Re: Re-search 175 Nebankh 13-Feb-04 09:56
Re: Re-search 173 Mark Staab 13-Feb-04 21:08
Re: Re-search 140 Milo 14-Feb-04 00:33
Re: Re-search 170 Milo 14-Feb-04 00:30
Re: Re-search 186 Mark Staab 15-Feb-04 07:39
Re: The Origin of Christ! 249 SunSword 22-Feb-04 00:37
Re: The Origin of Christ! 205 Mark Staab 22-Feb-04 06:49
Re: The Origin of Christ! 215 SunSword 24-Feb-04 01:24
Re: The Origin of Christ! 294 Mark Staab 24-Feb-04 05:17
Satan/Grail 186 Cleopatra 11-Feb-04 11:24
Re: Satan/Grail 173 Milo 11-Feb-04 15:06
Re: Satan/Grail 176 Cleopatra 11-Feb-04 15:42
Re: Satan/Grail 200 Milo 11-Feb-04 15:57
Satan/Hell and The Dice Man 200 Cleopatra 11-Feb-04 17:31
Re: Satan/Hell and The Dice Man 145 Milo 11-Feb-04 17:44
Re: Satan/Hell and The Dice Man 201 Cleopatra 11-Feb-04 18:17
Re: The Origin of Christ! 144 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 17:23
Re: The Origin of Christ! 202 adequatedane 10-Feb-04 21:05
Re: The Origin of Christ! 133 Milo 10-Feb-04 21:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 174 adequatedane 11-Feb-04 03:06
Re: The Origin of Christ! 169 Milo 11-Feb-04 05:03
Re: The Origin of Christ! 236 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 23:29
Re: The Origin of Christ! 177 Milo 10-Feb-04 23:36
Re: The Origin of Christ! 235 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 23:52
Re: The Origin of Christ! 184 Milo 10-Feb-04 23:59
Re: The Origin of Christ! 174 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 01:00
Re: The Origin of Christ! 138 Milo 11-Feb-04 01:09
Re: The Origin of Christ! 169 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 01:54
Re: The Origin of Christ! 143 Milo 11-Feb-04 02:10
Re: The Origin of Christ! 199 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 02:59
Re: The Origin of Christ! 226 Milo 11-Feb-04 05:21
Re: The Origin of Christ! 177 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 11:13
Re: The Origin of Christ! 167 Milo 11-Feb-04 15:10
Re: about Mexican Freemasonry 172 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 20:29
The Blue Light from the East! 136 Milo 11-Feb-04 22:37
Re: The Blue Light from the East! 214 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 23:33
Re: The Blue Light from the East! 168 Milo 12-Feb-04 00:03
Re: The Blue Light from the East! 178 gene douglas 12-Feb-04 00:52
Re: The Blue Light from the East! 202 Milo 12-Feb-04 00:58
Re: The Origin of Christ! 156 debraregypt 11-Feb-04 02:06
Re: The Origin of Christ! 191 adequatedane 11-Feb-04 03:32
Re: The Origin of Christ! 194 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 08:34
Re: The Origin of Christ! 186 David L 10-Feb-04 23:53
Re: The Origin of Christ! 205 Milo 11-Feb-04 00:02
Re: The Origin of Christ! 198 David L 11-Feb-04 00:09
Re: The Origin of Christ! 225 Milo 11-Feb-04 00:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 185 David L 11-Feb-04 00:21
Re: The Origin of Christ! 182 Milo 11-Feb-04 00:38
Re: The Origin of Christ! 181 David L 11-Feb-04 02:43
Re: The Origin of Christ! 173 Milo 11-Feb-04 05:39
Re: The Origin of Christ! 168 maria k. 11-Feb-04 06:16
Re: The Origin of Christ! 175 Milo 11-Feb-04 06:31
MOD remark to whom it may concern 164 Kees 12-Feb-04 09:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 182 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 09:01
Re: The Origin of Christ! 190 Anne-Marie 22-Feb-04 07:54
Re: The Origin of Christ! 222 Milo 22-Feb-04 12:54
The snake never evolved compassion 187 Milo 22-Feb-04 14:06
Re: The snake never evolved compassion 205 Anne-Marie 22-Feb-04 19:27
Re: The snake never evolved compassion 179 Milo 22-Feb-04 20:47
Re: The snake never evolved compassion 191 Anne-Marie 23-Feb-04 07:26
Re: The snake never evolved compassion 189 Milo 23-Feb-04 15:21
Re: The Origin of Christ! 191 Mark Staab 23-Feb-04 08:06
Re: The Origin of Christ! 177 adequatedane 11-Feb-04 03:15
Re: The Origin of Christ! 220 Dominick Ohrbeck 11-Feb-04 01:45
Re: The Origin of Christ! 170 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 02:06
Re: The Origin of Christ! 224 Dominick Ohrbeck 11-Feb-04 22:40
Re: The Origin of Christ! 183 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 23:58
Re: The Origin of Christ! 230 gene douglas 12-Feb-04 00:32
Re: The Origin of Christ! 141 Dominick Ohrbeck 12-Feb-04 01:35
Re: The Origin of Christ! 229 OakeyDokey 10-Feb-04 21:21
Re: The Origin of Christ! 168 Segestan 10-Feb-04 23:26
Re: The Origin of Christ! 170 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 23:37
Re: The Origin of Christ! 162 David L 10-Feb-04 23:47
Re: The Origin of Christ! 201 Saorsa 12-Feb-04 09:28
Re: The Origin of Christ! 177 David L 12-Feb-04 20:27
Re: The Origin of Christ! 174 Saorsa 23-Feb-04 08:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 189 jestahley3 16-Feb-04 05:58
Re: The Origin of Christ! 164 Milo 16-Feb-04 12:05


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