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>"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day" (Jn 6:44).

>...The implication also, to me, is that no amount of proselytizing on my part (or Jesus' part, for that matter, two millennia ago) will convince another of his claim to be the Son of God except the Father himself give this person conviction of the same. This would also imply that no written history or oral account has that power either, whether it stem from India, West Africa or the Middle East.

>So then, if you also recognize this, what was the point of the so-called, "Great Commission," to go forth and preach the gospel to the whole world? Why was it necessary to forestall the end until this had been accomplished? Or is this doctrine one of those pearls of consensus got of Constantine's lock-up in Nicaea?"

Well, look at it this way. You are told the story, and if God the Father moves you, you believe it. Or maybe you believe it anyway. Or maybe you don't. But --- if you never HEAR the story, then you don't have the option to believe it, and God the Father never has the chance to convince you. Okay?

And no...there are now enough original manuscripts scientifically dated to the 2nd century AD that scholars have pretty much concluded that the gospels as translated today do accurately reflect the 2nd century manuscripts. Even 50 years ago people could say with conviction that the gospels were manufactured by "the church" in the 4th and 5th centuries, and lots of stuff was added, deleted, or whatever. Today we know that assertion is false.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
The Origin of Christ! 671 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 13:41
Re: The Origin of Christ! 108 Milo 10-Feb-04 16:34
Re: The Origin of Christ! 107 Mark Staab 10-Feb-04 17:20
Re: The Origin of Christ! 158 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 17:26
Re: The Origin of Christ! 149 Mark Staab 10-Feb-04 17:36
Re: The Origin of Christ! 127 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 18:08
Re: The Origin of Christ! 151 Milo 10-Feb-04 17:43
Re: The Origin of Christ! 116 Mark Staab 10-Feb-04 21:53
Re: The Origin of Christ! 151 Milo 10-Feb-04 22:54
Re: The Origin of Christ! 149 Mark Staab 11-Feb-04 03:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 107 Milo 11-Feb-04 04:57
For Mark Staab !!! 155 Milo 13-Feb-04 00:01
Re: For Mark Staab !!! 103 Mark Staab 13-Feb-04 00:31
Re: For Mark Staab !!! 96 Milo 13-Feb-04 01:16
Re: For Mark Staab !!! 196 Mark Staab 13-Feb-04 02:40
Re: For Mark Staab !!! 136 Milo 13-Feb-04 05:25
Re-search 137 Mark Staab 13-Feb-04 07:36
Re: Re-search 141 Nebankh 13-Feb-04 09:56
Re: Re-search 140 Mark Staab 13-Feb-04 21:08
Re: Re-search 95 Milo 14-Feb-04 00:33
Re: Re-search 135 Milo 14-Feb-04 00:30
Re: Re-search 145 Mark Staab 15-Feb-04 07:39
Re: The Origin of Christ! 204 SunSword 22-Feb-04 00:37
Re: The Origin of Christ! 164 Mark Staab 22-Feb-04 06:49
Re: The Origin of Christ! 173 SunSword 24-Feb-04 01:24
Re: The Origin of Christ! 236 Mark Staab 24-Feb-04 05:17
Satan/Grail 152 Cleopatra 11-Feb-04 11:24
Re: Satan/Grail 133 Milo 11-Feb-04 15:06
Re: Satan/Grail 142 Cleopatra 11-Feb-04 15:42
Re: Satan/Grail 166 Milo 11-Feb-04 15:57
Satan/Hell and The Dice Man 162 Cleopatra 11-Feb-04 17:31
Re: Satan/Hell and The Dice Man 105 Milo 11-Feb-04 17:44
Re: Satan/Hell and The Dice Man 159 Cleopatra 11-Feb-04 18:17
Re: The Origin of Christ! 105 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 17:23
Re: The Origin of Christ! 170 adequatedane 10-Feb-04 21:05
Re: The Origin of Christ! 95 Milo 10-Feb-04 21:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 137 adequatedane 11-Feb-04 03:06
Re: The Origin of Christ! 134 Milo 11-Feb-04 05:03
Re: The Origin of Christ! 191 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 23:29
Re: The Origin of Christ! 139 Milo 10-Feb-04 23:36
Re: The Origin of Christ! 191 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 23:52
Re: The Origin of Christ! 147 Milo 10-Feb-04 23:59
Re: The Origin of Christ! 139 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 01:00
Re: The Origin of Christ! 103 Milo 11-Feb-04 01:09
Re: The Origin of Christ! 132 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 01:54
Re: The Origin of Christ! 111 Milo 11-Feb-04 02:10
Re: The Origin of Christ! 158 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 02:59
Re: The Origin of Christ! 178 Milo 11-Feb-04 05:21
Re: The Origin of Christ! 135 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 11:13
Re: The Origin of Christ! 117 Milo 11-Feb-04 15:10
Re: about Mexican Freemasonry 135 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 20:29
The Blue Light from the East! 99 Milo 11-Feb-04 22:37
Re: The Blue Light from the East! 180 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 23:33
Re: The Blue Light from the East! 131 Milo 12-Feb-04 00:03
Re: The Blue Light from the East! 148 gene douglas 12-Feb-04 00:52
Re: The Blue Light from the East! 160 Milo 12-Feb-04 00:58
Re: The Origin of Christ! 120 debraregypt 11-Feb-04 02:06
Re: The Origin of Christ! 152 adequatedane 11-Feb-04 03:32
Re: The Origin of Christ! 158 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 08:34
Re: The Origin of Christ! 150 David L 10-Feb-04 23:53
Re: The Origin of Christ! 162 Milo 11-Feb-04 00:02
Re: The Origin of Christ! 155 David L 11-Feb-04 00:09
Re: The Origin of Christ! 183 Milo 11-Feb-04 00:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 144 David L 11-Feb-04 00:21
Re: The Origin of Christ! 143 Milo 11-Feb-04 00:38
Re: The Origin of Christ! 143 David L 11-Feb-04 02:43
Re: The Origin of Christ! 129 Milo 11-Feb-04 05:39
Re: The Origin of Christ! 132 maria k. 11-Feb-04 06:16
Re: The Origin of Christ! 131 Milo 11-Feb-04 06:31
MOD remark to whom it may concern 130 Kees 12-Feb-04 09:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 147 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 09:01
Re: The Origin of Christ! 166 Anne-Marie 22-Feb-04 07:54
Re: The Origin of Christ! 184 Milo 22-Feb-04 12:54
The snake never evolved compassion 148 Milo 22-Feb-04 14:06
Re: The snake never evolved compassion 168 Anne-Marie 22-Feb-04 19:27
Re: The snake never evolved compassion 134 Milo 22-Feb-04 20:47
Re: The snake never evolved compassion 143 Anne-Marie 23-Feb-04 07:26
Re: The snake never evolved compassion 154 Milo 23-Feb-04 15:21
Re: The Origin of Christ! 157 Mark Staab 23-Feb-04 08:06
Re: The Origin of Christ! 139 adequatedane 11-Feb-04 03:15
Re: The Origin of Christ! 174 Dominick Ohrbeck 11-Feb-04 01:45
Re: The Origin of Christ! 133 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 02:06
Re: The Origin of Christ! 187 Dominick Ohrbeck 11-Feb-04 22:40
Re: The Origin of Christ! 142 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 23:58
Re: The Origin of Christ! 190 gene douglas 12-Feb-04 00:32
Re: The Origin of Christ! 104 Dominick Ohrbeck 12-Feb-04 01:35
Re: The Origin of Christ! 185 OakeyDokey 10-Feb-04 21:21
Re: The Origin of Christ! 131 Segestan 10-Feb-04 23:26
Re: The Origin of Christ! 136 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 23:37
Re: The Origin of Christ! 123 David L 10-Feb-04 23:47
Re: The Origin of Christ! 159 Saorsa 12-Feb-04 09:28
Re: The Origin of Christ! 133 David L 12-Feb-04 20:27
Re: The Origin of Christ! 138 Saorsa 23-Feb-04 08:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 151 jestahley3 16-Feb-04 05:58
Re: The Origin of Christ! 126 Milo 16-Feb-04 12:05


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