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>"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day" (Jn 6:44).

>...The implication also, to me, is that no amount of proselytizing on my part (or Jesus' part, for that matter, two millennia ago) will convince another of his claim to be the Son of God except the Father himself give this person conviction of the same. This would also imply that no written history or oral account has that power either, whether it stem from India, West Africa or the Middle East.

>So then, if you also recognize this, what was the point of the so-called, "Great Commission," to go forth and preach the gospel to the whole world? Why was it necessary to forestall the end until this had been accomplished? Or is this doctrine one of those pearls of consensus got of Constantine's lock-up in Nicaea?"

Well, look at it this way. You are told the story, and if God the Father moves you, you believe it. Or maybe you believe it anyway. Or maybe you don't. But --- if you never HEAR the story, then you don't have the option to believe it, and God the Father never has the chance to convince you. Okay?

And no...there are now enough original manuscripts scientifically dated to the 2nd century AD that scholars have pretty much concluded that the gospels as translated today do accurately reflect the 2nd century manuscripts. Even 50 years ago people could say with conviction that the gospels were manufactured by "the church" in the 4th and 5th centuries, and lots of stuff was added, deleted, or whatever. Today we know that assertion is false.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
The Origin of Christ! 702 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 13:41
Re: The Origin of Christ! 122 Milo 10-Feb-04 16:34
Re: The Origin of Christ! 118 Mark Staab 10-Feb-04 17:20
Re: The Origin of Christ! 171 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 17:26
Re: The Origin of Christ! 168 Mark Staab 10-Feb-04 17:36
Re: The Origin of Christ! 138 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 18:08
Re: The Origin of Christ! 166 Milo 10-Feb-04 17:43
Re: The Origin of Christ! 130 Mark Staab 10-Feb-04 21:53
Re: The Origin of Christ! 164 Milo 10-Feb-04 22:54
Re: The Origin of Christ! 171 Mark Staab 11-Feb-04 03:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 117 Milo 11-Feb-04 04:57
For Mark Staab !!! 163 Milo 13-Feb-04 00:01
Re: For Mark Staab !!! 112 Mark Staab 13-Feb-04 00:31
Re: For Mark Staab !!! 105 Milo 13-Feb-04 01:16
Re: For Mark Staab !!! 204 Mark Staab 13-Feb-04 02:40
Re: For Mark Staab !!! 143 Milo 13-Feb-04 05:25
Re-search 146 Mark Staab 13-Feb-04 07:36
Re: Re-search 147 Nebankh 13-Feb-04 09:56
Re: Re-search 148 Mark Staab 13-Feb-04 21:08
Re: Re-search 107 Milo 14-Feb-04 00:33
Re: Re-search 145 Milo 14-Feb-04 00:30
Re: Re-search 158 Mark Staab 15-Feb-04 07:39
Re: The Origin of Christ! 217 SunSword 22-Feb-04 00:37
Re: The Origin of Christ! 176 Mark Staab 22-Feb-04 06:49
Re: The Origin of Christ! 186 SunSword 24-Feb-04 01:24
Re: The Origin of Christ! 255 Mark Staab 24-Feb-04 05:17
Satan/Grail 161 Cleopatra 11-Feb-04 11:24
Re: Satan/Grail 141 Milo 11-Feb-04 15:06
Re: Satan/Grail 150 Cleopatra 11-Feb-04 15:42
Re: Satan/Grail 175 Milo 11-Feb-04 15:57
Satan/Hell and The Dice Man 172 Cleopatra 11-Feb-04 17:31
Re: Satan/Hell and The Dice Man 115 Milo 11-Feb-04 17:44
Re: Satan/Hell and The Dice Man 169 Cleopatra 11-Feb-04 18:17
Re: The Origin of Christ! 117 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 17:23
Re: The Origin of Christ! 176 adequatedane 10-Feb-04 21:05
Re: The Origin of Christ! 104 Milo 10-Feb-04 21:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 148 adequatedane 11-Feb-04 03:06
Re: The Origin of Christ! 143 Milo 11-Feb-04 05:03
Re: The Origin of Christ! 208 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 23:29
Re: The Origin of Christ! 147 Milo 10-Feb-04 23:36
Re: The Origin of Christ! 202 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 23:52
Re: The Origin of Christ! 154 Milo 10-Feb-04 23:59
Re: The Origin of Christ! 146 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 01:00
Re: The Origin of Christ! 112 Milo 11-Feb-04 01:09
Re: The Origin of Christ! 141 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 01:54
Re: The Origin of Christ! 120 Milo 11-Feb-04 02:10
Re: The Origin of Christ! 168 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 02:59
Re: The Origin of Christ! 189 Milo 11-Feb-04 05:21
Re: The Origin of Christ! 146 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 11:13
Re: The Origin of Christ! 135 Milo 11-Feb-04 15:10
Re: about Mexican Freemasonry 144 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 20:29
The Blue Light from the East! 109 Milo 11-Feb-04 22:37
Re: The Blue Light from the East! 187 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 23:33
Re: The Blue Light from the East! 140 Milo 12-Feb-04 00:03
Re: The Blue Light from the East! 156 gene douglas 12-Feb-04 00:52
Re: The Blue Light from the East! 169 Milo 12-Feb-04 00:58
Re: The Origin of Christ! 130 debraregypt 11-Feb-04 02:06
Re: The Origin of Christ! 162 adequatedane 11-Feb-04 03:32
Re: The Origin of Christ! 168 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 08:34
Re: The Origin of Christ! 159 David L 10-Feb-04 23:53
Re: The Origin of Christ! 174 Milo 11-Feb-04 00:02
Re: The Origin of Christ! 170 David L 11-Feb-04 00:09
Re: The Origin of Christ! 195 Milo 11-Feb-04 00:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 155 David L 11-Feb-04 00:21
Re: The Origin of Christ! 152 Milo 11-Feb-04 00:38
Re: The Origin of Christ! 153 David L 11-Feb-04 02:43
Re: The Origin of Christ! 137 Milo 11-Feb-04 05:39
Re: The Origin of Christ! 140 maria k. 11-Feb-04 06:16
Re: The Origin of Christ! 145 Milo 11-Feb-04 06:31
MOD remark to whom it may concern 139 Kees 12-Feb-04 09:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 154 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 09:01
Re: The Origin of Christ! 174 Anne-Marie 22-Feb-04 07:54
Re: The Origin of Christ! 192 Milo 22-Feb-04 12:54
The snake never evolved compassion 159 Milo 22-Feb-04 14:06
Re: The snake never evolved compassion 177 Anne-Marie 22-Feb-04 19:27
Re: The snake never evolved compassion 149 Milo 22-Feb-04 20:47
Re: The snake never evolved compassion 158 Anne-Marie 23-Feb-04 07:26
Re: The snake never evolved compassion 161 Milo 23-Feb-04 15:21
Re: The Origin of Christ! 166 Mark Staab 23-Feb-04 08:06
Re: The Origin of Christ! 150 adequatedane 11-Feb-04 03:15
Re: The Origin of Christ! 188 Dominick Ohrbeck 11-Feb-04 01:45
Re: The Origin of Christ! 143 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 02:06
Re: The Origin of Christ! 197 Dominick Ohrbeck 11-Feb-04 22:40
Re: The Origin of Christ! 150 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 23:58
Re: The Origin of Christ! 205 gene douglas 12-Feb-04 00:32
Re: The Origin of Christ! 113 Dominick Ohrbeck 12-Feb-04 01:35
Re: The Origin of Christ! 199 OakeyDokey 10-Feb-04 21:21
Re: The Origin of Christ! 140 Segestan 10-Feb-04 23:26
Re: The Origin of Christ! 143 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 23:37
Re: The Origin of Christ! 132 David L 10-Feb-04 23:47
Re: The Origin of Christ! 169 Saorsa 12-Feb-04 09:28
Re: The Origin of Christ! 145 David L 12-Feb-04 20:27
Re: The Origin of Christ! 148 Saorsa 23-Feb-04 08:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 160 jestahley3 16-Feb-04 05:58
Re: The Origin of Christ! 136 Milo 16-Feb-04 12:05


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