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>"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day" (Jn 6:44).

>...The implication also, to me, is that no amount of proselytizing on my part (or Jesus' part, for that matter, two millennia ago) will convince another of his claim to be the Son of God except the Father himself give this person conviction of the same. This would also imply that no written history or oral account has that power either, whether it stem from India, West Africa or the Middle East.

>So then, if you also recognize this, what was the point of the so-called, "Great Commission," to go forth and preach the gospel to the whole world? Why was it necessary to forestall the end until this had been accomplished? Or is this doctrine one of those pearls of consensus got of Constantine's lock-up in Nicaea?"

Well, look at it this way. You are told the story, and if God the Father moves you, you believe it. Or maybe you believe it anyway. Or maybe you don't. But --- if you never HEAR the story, then you don't have the option to believe it, and God the Father never has the chance to convince you. Okay?

And no...there are now enough original manuscripts scientifically dated to the 2nd century AD that scholars have pretty much concluded that the gospels as translated today do accurately reflect the 2nd century manuscripts. Even 50 years ago people could say with conviction that the gospels were manufactured by "the church" in the 4th and 5th centuries, and lots of stuff was added, deleted, or whatever. Today we know that assertion is false.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
The Origin of Christ! 827 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 13:41
Re: The Origin of Christ! 174 Milo 10-Feb-04 16:34
Re: The Origin of Christ! 160 Mark Staab 10-Feb-04 17:20
Re: The Origin of Christ! 215 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 17:26
Re: The Origin of Christ! 222 Mark Staab 10-Feb-04 17:36
Re: The Origin of Christ! 182 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 18:08
Re: The Origin of Christ! 218 Milo 10-Feb-04 17:43
Re: The Origin of Christ! 179 Mark Staab 10-Feb-04 21:53
Re: The Origin of Christ! 218 Milo 10-Feb-04 22:54
Re: The Origin of Christ! 219 Mark Staab 11-Feb-04 03:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 156 Milo 11-Feb-04 04:57
For Mark Staab !!! 202 Milo 13-Feb-04 00:01
Re: For Mark Staab !!! 175 Mark Staab 13-Feb-04 00:31
Re: For Mark Staab !!! 137 Milo 13-Feb-04 01:16
Re: For Mark Staab !!! 240 Mark Staab 13-Feb-04 02:40
Re: For Mark Staab !!! 183 Milo 13-Feb-04 05:25
Re-search 192 Mark Staab 13-Feb-04 07:36
Re: Re-search 188 Nebankh 13-Feb-04 09:56
Re: Re-search 185 Mark Staab 13-Feb-04 21:08
Re: Re-search 156 Milo 14-Feb-04 00:33
Re: Re-search 184 Milo 14-Feb-04 00:30
Re: Re-search 200 Mark Staab 15-Feb-04 07:39
Re: The Origin of Christ! 271 SunSword 22-Feb-04 00:37
Re: The Origin of Christ! 227 Mark Staab 22-Feb-04 06:49
Re: The Origin of Christ! 233 SunSword 24-Feb-04 01:24
Re: The Origin of Christ! 319 Mark Staab 24-Feb-04 05:17
Satan/Grail 200 Cleopatra 11-Feb-04 11:24
Re: Satan/Grail 187 Milo 11-Feb-04 15:06
Re: Satan/Grail 191 Cleopatra 11-Feb-04 15:42
Re: Satan/Grail 216 Milo 11-Feb-04 15:57
Satan/Hell and The Dice Man 215 Cleopatra 11-Feb-04 17:31
Re: Satan/Hell and The Dice Man 167 Milo 11-Feb-04 17:44
Re: Satan/Hell and The Dice Man 213 Cleopatra 11-Feb-04 18:17
Re: The Origin of Christ! 157 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 17:23
Re: The Origin of Christ! 218 adequatedane 10-Feb-04 21:05
Re: The Origin of Christ! 147 Milo 10-Feb-04 21:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 194 adequatedane 11-Feb-04 03:06
Re: The Origin of Christ! 182 Milo 11-Feb-04 05:03
Re: The Origin of Christ! 252 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 23:29
Re: The Origin of Christ! 199 Milo 10-Feb-04 23:36
Re: The Origin of Christ! 261 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 23:52
Re: The Origin of Christ! 197 Milo 10-Feb-04 23:59
Re: The Origin of Christ! 194 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 01:00
Re: The Origin of Christ! 148 Milo 11-Feb-04 01:09
Re: The Origin of Christ! 182 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 01:54
Re: The Origin of Christ! 157 Milo 11-Feb-04 02:10
Re: The Origin of Christ! 210 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 02:59
Re: The Origin of Christ! 248 Milo 11-Feb-04 05:21
Re: The Origin of Christ! 188 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 11:13
Re: The Origin of Christ! 186 Milo 11-Feb-04 15:10
Re: about Mexican Freemasonry 191 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 20:29
The Blue Light from the East! 151 Milo 11-Feb-04 22:37
Re: The Blue Light from the East! 234 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 23:33
Re: The Blue Light from the East! 180 Milo 12-Feb-04 00:03
Re: The Blue Light from the East! 192 gene douglas 12-Feb-04 00:52
Re: The Blue Light from the East! 219 Milo 12-Feb-04 00:58
Re: The Origin of Christ! 176 debraregypt 11-Feb-04 02:06
Re: The Origin of Christ! 202 adequatedane 11-Feb-04 03:32
Re: The Origin of Christ! 207 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 08:34
Re: The Origin of Christ! 201 David L 10-Feb-04 23:53
Re: The Origin of Christ! 218 Milo 11-Feb-04 00:02
Re: The Origin of Christ! 214 David L 11-Feb-04 00:09
Re: The Origin of Christ! 237 Milo 11-Feb-04 00:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 201 David L 11-Feb-04 00:21
Re: The Origin of Christ! 199 Milo 11-Feb-04 00:38
Re: The Origin of Christ! 197 David L 11-Feb-04 02:43
Re: The Origin of Christ! 190 Milo 11-Feb-04 05:39
Re: The Origin of Christ! 180 maria k. 11-Feb-04 06:16
Re: The Origin of Christ! 197 Milo 11-Feb-04 06:31
MOD remark to whom it may concern 178 Kees 12-Feb-04 09:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 195 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 09:01
Re: The Origin of Christ! 209 Anne-Marie 22-Feb-04 07:54
Re: The Origin of Christ! 236 Milo 22-Feb-04 12:54
The snake never evolved compassion 203 Milo 22-Feb-04 14:06
Re: The snake never evolved compassion 226 Anne-Marie 22-Feb-04 19:27
Re: The snake never evolved compassion 201 Milo 22-Feb-04 20:47
Re: The snake never evolved compassion 208 Anne-Marie 23-Feb-04 07:26
Re: The snake never evolved compassion 203 Milo 23-Feb-04 15:21
Re: The Origin of Christ! 203 Mark Staab 23-Feb-04 08:06
Re: The Origin of Christ! 193 adequatedane 11-Feb-04 03:15
Re: The Origin of Christ! 241 Dominick Ohrbeck 11-Feb-04 01:45
Re: The Origin of Christ! 184 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 02:06
Re: The Origin of Christ! 237 Dominick Ohrbeck 11-Feb-04 22:40
Re: The Origin of Christ! 197 gene douglas 11-Feb-04 23:58
Re: The Origin of Christ! 243 gene douglas 12-Feb-04 00:32
Re: The Origin of Christ! 156 Dominick Ohrbeck 12-Feb-04 01:35
Re: The Origin of Christ! 249 OakeyDokey 10-Feb-04 21:21
Re: The Origin of Christ! 186 Segestan 10-Feb-04 23:26
Re: The Origin of Christ! 186 gene douglas 10-Feb-04 23:37
Re: The Origin of Christ! 181 David L 10-Feb-04 23:47
Re: The Origin of Christ! 218 Saorsa 12-Feb-04 09:28
Re: The Origin of Christ! 195 David L 12-Feb-04 20:27
Re: The Origin of Christ! 193 Saorsa 23-Feb-04 08:12
Re: The Origin of Christ! 200 jestahley3 16-Feb-04 05:58
Re: The Origin of Christ! 176 Milo 16-Feb-04 12:05


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