Inner Space :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For discussions on all matters relating to personal development, religion, philosophy, psychology and so on. 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Hi MIlo,

Milo wrote:
> Generally speaking, I think music reached its highest apogee,
> its highest point, in the 19th century. The culture of the
> 20th century became inundated with technology, electronic
> music and mass media and the fertile mind, has become less as
> common as it was in the 19th century. Great music is designed
> ultimately to reach up to a higher level, so that we become
> transfigured... music has the potential to change our lives!

I should clarify that when I mentioned that most music was electronic I meant that our experience of it whether Gregorian chant, Field Hollars or whatever, all recorded music is electronic, even most live music uses amplification, PA systems. Most of us are geared towards this type of experience to the point where just sitting playing a piano, guitar, etc. has an air of unreality about it. One wonders what we sound like and trust a recording after the fact more than our ears in the moment. Recordings of symphonic music are some of the most artificial there are, as they're said to be without overdubs, but we know there are frequent minute edits to bring the performance closer to some unrealizable ideal of perfection.

The 19th C, really the Romantic period, represented the apogee of a certain type of vertical music developed since the advent of the tempered scale. Composers took the modulation of chords into different keys and the construction of traditional harmony as far as it could go. To say this was the highest point of music though is a very ethno-centric and class oriented idea. It pretends that most of the world doesn't exist and even within the narrow western confinesof Europe and America that only the bourgeoisie and upper classes count. Your average person in the 19th C had no opportunity to even be exposed to the music you love. The same people who patronized symphonies and operas were those that were the slave owners and exploited the poor for profit. The great music of the European tradition far from uplifting people spiritually served the status quo.
>
> In the 20th century, if one examines the popular culture,
> mankind has forgotten who it is more so than in previous
> times. Hormones ruin everything and it certainly holds us
> down. We are of the musical essence but we've become so
> enamoured of our physical existence, we've forgotten who we
> are to the extent it's hard for us to get back to a higher
> awareness and that's a lesson not lost on those that would
> seek to control and subjugate us and keep us in what we could
> call, a modestly comfortable level, in terms of most peoples'
> lifestyle. They like the attachments of the body and all
> things physical and we are ever more primitive, it would
> seem, if we examine popular culture, the entertainment, the
> music, the media - it's not exactly reaching for higher
> ideals. It's reaching for reproduction in many different
> guises. Music should elevate people instead of bringing them
> to a lower state!

I think people respond to different music in very different ways. One person's spiritual sublimity is another's bete noire. I think that's okay. Look at Deano's response elewhere on this thread. He finds the sublime in Lynard Skynard, whereas to me they were little more than redneck thugs writing songs upholding unpalatable ideas about the south. I'm not criticising Deano's interest in them, people should find their spirit wherever they can. I point it out because it speaks to the essential subjectivity of the appeal of culture. If Lynard Skynard elevates Deano that's great, who am I to suggest otherwise. I think you're succumbing to a nostalgia for what never was, imbuing people of earlier centuries with qualities they didn't possess. For all it's faults the 20th C has promoted more equality of access to culture than ever before. An interesting argument could be made of the impact on today's youth culture by the democratising affect of post war UK governments giving working class kids the option to attend art school rather than be shunted off to work in factories. It's amazing how much of the British invasion was just those kinds of kids and without them Americans might never have discovered the wealth in their own folk and blues traditions. Our country was too racially stratified to pick up on our black music without it being sold back to us by white foreigners. You I guess see that music as part of the problem, the control and manipulation mechanisms that hold us down, but I think you're confusing the spirit of the music with it's commodification. That the elites have attempted to commodify and sell the trappings of rebellion without its substance is no surprise, but has it entirely worked? I find much more questioning of paradigms among those who listen to jazz, rock, folk, ethnic, or the so-called art music of the 20th C than I do with those with elitist ideas about how music died with Mahler, or whoever. You are something of an anomaly as far as that goes. I can't take that narrow a view of it. I usually have an instinctive reaction to music and then become curious as to what about it appeals or doesn't and find there are a great many answers to both those questions and they may all miss the point.

Briffits

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 573 Jergat 09-Feb-04 08:32
Moderator note 171 Richard Fusniak 09-Feb-04 19:18
Re: Moderator note 171 Jergat 09-Feb-04 22:13
Re: Moderator note 155 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 00:23
Re: Moderator note 157 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 00:30
Re: Moderator note 156 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 00:50
Re: Moderator note 156 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 02:17
About the moderation process 162 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 02:54
Re: About the moderation process 154 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 03:07
Re: About the moderation process 168 Cleopatra 10-Feb-04 20:10
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 156 Hoppy 10-Feb-04 00:59
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 159 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 02:38
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 140 Jergat 10-Feb-04 05:36
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 213 Briffits 10-Feb-04 09:27
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 174 Milo 10-Feb-04 16:17
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 170 Paul Cochrane 10-Feb-04 17:48
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 155 Milo 10-Feb-04 18:11
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 150 David L 10-Feb-04 18:36
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 142 Milo 10-Feb-04 18:46
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 162 Paul Cochrane 10-Feb-04 18:43
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 142 Briffits 10-Feb-04 22:12
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 155 Milo 10-Feb-04 23:05
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 156 Briffits 11-Feb-04 00:03
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 154 Milo 11-Feb-04 00:07
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 152 Briffits 11-Feb-04 10:25
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 153 Milo 11-Feb-04 15:19
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 147 Briffits 11-Feb-04 20:19
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 147 Milo 11-Feb-04 23:01
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 150 Briffits 12-Feb-04 00:23
Henceforth and forthwith... 162 Milo 12-Feb-04 00:53
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 150 Milo 11-Feb-04 17:08
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 152 Briffits 11-Feb-04 19:17
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 147 Milo 11-Feb-04 19:30
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 157 Hoppy 10-Feb-04 14:55
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 156 David L 10-Feb-04 01:23
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 170 Milo 10-Feb-04 02:15
Music from other spheres 166 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 02:59
Re: Music from other spheres 145 Milo 10-Feb-04 03:11
Possibly wrong again 151 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 03:15
Re: Possibly wrong again 152 Milo 10-Feb-04 03:24
Musical mediums 156 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 12:58
Musical plane 164 Kees 10-Feb-04 13:53
Re: Musical plane 149 Milo 10-Feb-04 15:48
Re: Musical plane 155 Kees 10-Feb-04 16:10
Re: Musical mediums 147 Milo 10-Feb-04 15:49
Re: Musical mediums 163 Thirdwave 10-Feb-04 16:14
Re: Musical mediums 150 Milo 10-Feb-04 16:25
Re: Musical mediums 159 Thirdwave 10-Feb-04 19:02
Re: Musical mediums 144 Milo 10-Feb-04 19:10
Poo-Pooing "channels" 152 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 22:19
Re: Poo-Pooing 150 Milo 10-Feb-04 23:09
Re: Possibly wrong again 150 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 03:49
Talking of Bach.... 156 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 09:29
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 156 David L 10-Feb-04 18:32
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 138 Milo 10-Feb-04 18:58
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 155 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 02:29
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 163 David L 10-Feb-04 18:39
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 157 Milo 10-Feb-04 19:01
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 156 David L 10-Feb-04 19:12
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 161 Milo 10-Feb-04 19:20
Gifts 131 Jergat 10-Feb-04 20:44
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 160 David L 10-Feb-04 23:35
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 201 Saorsa 10-Feb-04 14:38
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 146 David L 10-Feb-04 19:05
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 205 Saorsa 11-Feb-04 08:29
Pray Mr. Lamond, tell me... 172 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 15:05
Re: Pray Mr. Lamond, tell me... 157 David L 10-Feb-04 18:51
Re: Pray Mr. Lamond, tell me... 157 Milo 10-Feb-04 19:04
Re: Pray Mr. Lamond, tell me... 144 David L 10-Feb-04 19:13
Listening By Numbers 177 Thirdwave 10-Feb-04 15:20
Re: Listening By Numbers 155 David L 10-Feb-04 19:19
Re: Listening By Numbers 144 Thirdwave 10-Feb-04 19:43
Re: Listening By Numbers 160 David L 10-Feb-04 23:39
Re: Listening By Numbers 150 Briffits 11-Feb-04 03:11
Re: Listening By Numbers 153 Thirdwave 12-Feb-04 17:46
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 155 Kees 10-Feb-04 15:25
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 143 Hoppy 10-Feb-04 18:36
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 178 Mark Staab 11-Feb-04 06:08
Work work work 158 Kees 11-Feb-04 10:36
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 143 David L 10-Feb-04 19:24
Books 152 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 22:36
Re: Books 146 David L 10-Feb-04 23:44
Teachers 153 Richard Fusniak 11-Feb-04 02:08
Re: Teachers 142 David L 11-Feb-04 03:07
Re: Teachers 160 Kees 11-Feb-04 10:16
Re: Teachers 148 David L 11-Feb-04 17:47
The yoga of sound 167 Kees 11-Feb-04 21:55
Re: The yoga of sound 147 David L 11-Feb-04 22:07
Small world indeed 148 Kees 11-Feb-04 22:42
Re: Teachers 151 Richard Fusniak 11-Feb-04 23:24
Re: Teachers 148 David L 12-Feb-04 01:49
Spirtual arrogance and delusion 160 Richard Fusniak 12-Feb-04 02:18
An apology 147 Richard Fusniak 12-Feb-04 12:34
Re: An apology 146 fisherman 12-Feb-04 16:11
Re: An apology 171 David L 12-Feb-04 19:46
The wheel of life. 152 Richard Fusniak 13-Feb-04 01:32
The Catapillar and the Butterfly 155 Milo 13-Feb-04 01:35
Re: The Catapillar and the Butterfly 326 David L 13-Feb-04 02:52
Re: The wheel of life. 144 David L 13-Feb-04 02:50
Re: Teachers 150 Hoppy 11-Feb-04 03:19
Re: Teachers 153 David L 11-Feb-04 17:48
Re: Teachers 154 Hoppy 11-Feb-04 20:08


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.