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Hi MIlo,

Milo wrote:
> Generally speaking, I think music reached its highest apogee,
> its highest point, in the 19th century. The culture of the
> 20th century became inundated with technology, electronic
> music and mass media and the fertile mind, has become less as
> common as it was in the 19th century. Great music is designed
> ultimately to reach up to a higher level, so that we become
> transfigured... music has the potential to change our lives!

I should clarify that when I mentioned that most music was electronic I meant that our experience of it whether Gregorian chant, Field Hollars or whatever, all recorded music is electronic, even most live music uses amplification, PA systems. Most of us are geared towards this type of experience to the point where just sitting playing a piano, guitar, etc. has an air of unreality about it. One wonders what we sound like and trust a recording after the fact more than our ears in the moment. Recordings of symphonic music are some of the most artificial there are, as they're said to be without overdubs, but we know there are frequent minute edits to bring the performance closer to some unrealizable ideal of perfection.

The 19th C, really the Romantic period, represented the apogee of a certain type of vertical music developed since the advent of the tempered scale. Composers took the modulation of chords into different keys and the construction of traditional harmony as far as it could go. To say this was the highest point of music though is a very ethno-centric and class oriented idea. It pretends that most of the world doesn't exist and even within the narrow western confinesof Europe and America that only the bourgeoisie and upper classes count. Your average person in the 19th C had no opportunity to even be exposed to the music you love. The same people who patronized symphonies and operas were those that were the slave owners and exploited the poor for profit. The great music of the European tradition far from uplifting people spiritually served the status quo.
>
> In the 20th century, if one examines the popular culture,
> mankind has forgotten who it is more so than in previous
> times. Hormones ruin everything and it certainly holds us
> down. We are of the musical essence but we've become so
> enamoured of our physical existence, we've forgotten who we
> are to the extent it's hard for us to get back to a higher
> awareness and that's a lesson not lost on those that would
> seek to control and subjugate us and keep us in what we could
> call, a modestly comfortable level, in terms of most peoples'
> lifestyle. They like the attachments of the body and all
> things physical and we are ever more primitive, it would
> seem, if we examine popular culture, the entertainment, the
> music, the media - it's not exactly reaching for higher
> ideals. It's reaching for reproduction in many different
> guises. Music should elevate people instead of bringing them
> to a lower state!

I think people respond to different music in very different ways. One person's spiritual sublimity is another's bete noire. I think that's okay. Look at Deano's response elewhere on this thread. He finds the sublime in Lynard Skynard, whereas to me they were little more than redneck thugs writing songs upholding unpalatable ideas about the south. I'm not criticising Deano's interest in them, people should find their spirit wherever they can. I point it out because it speaks to the essential subjectivity of the appeal of culture. If Lynard Skynard elevates Deano that's great, who am I to suggest otherwise. I think you're succumbing to a nostalgia for what never was, imbuing people of earlier centuries with qualities they didn't possess. For all it's faults the 20th C has promoted more equality of access to culture than ever before. An interesting argument could be made of the impact on today's youth culture by the democratising affect of post war UK governments giving working class kids the option to attend art school rather than be shunted off to work in factories. It's amazing how much of the British invasion was just those kinds of kids and without them Americans might never have discovered the wealth in their own folk and blues traditions. Our country was too racially stratified to pick up on our black music without it being sold back to us by white foreigners. You I guess see that music as part of the problem, the control and manipulation mechanisms that hold us down, but I think you're confusing the spirit of the music with it's commodification. That the elites have attempted to commodify and sell the trappings of rebellion without its substance is no surprise, but has it entirely worked? I find much more questioning of paradigms among those who listen to jazz, rock, folk, ethnic, or the so-called art music of the 20th C than I do with those with elitist ideas about how music died with Mahler, or whoever. You are something of an anomaly as far as that goes. I can't take that narrow a view of it. I usually have an instinctive reaction to music and then become curious as to what about it appeals or doesn't and find there are a great many answers to both those questions and they may all miss the point.

Briffits

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 437 Jergat 09-Feb-04 08:32
Moderator note 120 Richard Fusniak 09-Feb-04 19:18
Re: Moderator note 121 Jergat 09-Feb-04 22:13
Re: Moderator note 104 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 00:23
Re: Moderator note 108 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 00:30
Re: Moderator note 106 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 00:50
Re: Moderator note 106 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 02:17
About the moderation process 113 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 02:54
Re: About the moderation process 99 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 03:07
Re: About the moderation process 115 Cleopatra 10-Feb-04 20:10
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 107 Hoppy 10-Feb-04 00:59
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 103 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 02:38
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 95 Jergat 10-Feb-04 05:36
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 164 Briffits 10-Feb-04 09:27
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 119 Milo 10-Feb-04 16:17
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 121 Paul Cochrane 10-Feb-04 17:48
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 107 Milo 10-Feb-04 18:11
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 102 David L 10-Feb-04 18:36
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 92 Milo 10-Feb-04 18:46
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 116 Paul Cochrane 10-Feb-04 18:43
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 93 Briffits 10-Feb-04 22:12
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 105 Milo 10-Feb-04 23:05
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 105 Briffits 11-Feb-04 00:03
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 100 Milo 11-Feb-04 00:07
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 103 Briffits 11-Feb-04 10:25
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 103 Milo 11-Feb-04 15:19
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 98 Briffits 11-Feb-04 20:19
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 97 Milo 11-Feb-04 23:01
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 100 Briffits 12-Feb-04 00:23
Henceforth and forthwith... 118 Milo 12-Feb-04 00:53
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 98 Milo 11-Feb-04 17:08
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 107 Briffits 11-Feb-04 19:17
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 96 Milo 11-Feb-04 19:30
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 106 Hoppy 10-Feb-04 14:55
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 106 David L 10-Feb-04 01:23
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 115 Milo 10-Feb-04 02:15
Music from other spheres 118 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 02:59
Re: Music from other spheres 92 Milo 10-Feb-04 03:11
Possibly wrong again 102 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 03:15
Re: Possibly wrong again 104 Milo 10-Feb-04 03:24
Musical mediums 106 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 12:58
Musical plane 116 Kees 10-Feb-04 13:53
Re: Musical plane 101 Milo 10-Feb-04 15:48
Re: Musical plane 107 Kees 10-Feb-04 16:10
Re: Musical mediums 100 Milo 10-Feb-04 15:49
Re: Musical mediums 112 Thirdwave 10-Feb-04 16:14
Re: Musical mediums 96 Milo 10-Feb-04 16:25
Re: Musical mediums 107 Thirdwave 10-Feb-04 19:02
Re: Musical mediums 97 Milo 10-Feb-04 19:10
Poo-Pooing "channels" 99 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 22:19
Re: Poo-Pooing 103 Milo 10-Feb-04 23:09
Re: Possibly wrong again 100 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 03:49
Talking of Bach.... 102 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 09:29
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 107 David L 10-Feb-04 18:32
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 88 Milo 10-Feb-04 18:58
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 106 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 02:29
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 115 David L 10-Feb-04 18:39
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 102 Milo 10-Feb-04 19:01
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 100 David L 10-Feb-04 19:12
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 101 Milo 10-Feb-04 19:20
Gifts 91 Jergat 10-Feb-04 20:44
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 107 David L 10-Feb-04 23:35
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 150 Saorsa 10-Feb-04 14:38
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 96 David L 10-Feb-04 19:05
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 153 Saorsa 11-Feb-04 08:29
Pray Mr. Lamond, tell me... 118 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 15:05
Re: Pray Mr. Lamond, tell me... 106 David L 10-Feb-04 18:51
Re: Pray Mr. Lamond, tell me... 109 Milo 10-Feb-04 19:04
Re: Pray Mr. Lamond, tell me... 97 David L 10-Feb-04 19:13
Listening By Numbers 124 Thirdwave 10-Feb-04 15:20
Re: Listening By Numbers 102 David L 10-Feb-04 19:19
Re: Listening By Numbers 93 Thirdwave 10-Feb-04 19:43
Re: Listening By Numbers 110 David L 10-Feb-04 23:39
Re: Listening By Numbers 103 Briffits 11-Feb-04 03:11
Re: Listening By Numbers 107 Thirdwave 12-Feb-04 17:46
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 105 Kees 10-Feb-04 15:25
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 94 Hoppy 10-Feb-04 18:36
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 130 Mark Staab 11-Feb-04 06:08
Work work work 106 Kees 11-Feb-04 10:36
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 95 David L 10-Feb-04 19:24
Books 98 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 22:36
Re: Books 98 David L 10-Feb-04 23:44
Teachers 104 Richard Fusniak 11-Feb-04 02:08
Re: Teachers 98 David L 11-Feb-04 03:07
Re: Teachers 112 Kees 11-Feb-04 10:16
Re: Teachers 100 David L 11-Feb-04 17:47
The yoga of sound 115 Kees 11-Feb-04 21:55
Re: The yoga of sound 98 David L 11-Feb-04 22:07
Small world indeed 98 Kees 11-Feb-04 22:42
Re: Teachers 99 Richard Fusniak 11-Feb-04 23:24
Re: Teachers 98 David L 12-Feb-04 01:49
Spirtual arrogance and delusion 107 Richard Fusniak 12-Feb-04 02:18
An apology 93 Richard Fusniak 12-Feb-04 12:34
Re: An apology 92 fisherman 12-Feb-04 16:11
Re: An apology 117 David L 12-Feb-04 19:46
The wheel of life. 102 Richard Fusniak 13-Feb-04 01:32
The Catapillar and the Butterfly 106 Milo 13-Feb-04 01:35
Re: The Catapillar and the Butterfly 247 David L 13-Feb-04 02:52
Re: The wheel of life. 94 David L 13-Feb-04 02:50
Re: Teachers 96 Hoppy 11-Feb-04 03:19
Re: Teachers 100 David L 11-Feb-04 17:48
Re: Teachers 100 Hoppy 11-Feb-04 20:08


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