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Hi MIlo,

Milo wrote:
> Generally speaking, I think music reached its highest apogee,
> its highest point, in the 19th century. The culture of the
> 20th century became inundated with technology, electronic
> music and mass media and the fertile mind, has become less as
> common as it was in the 19th century. Great music is designed
> ultimately to reach up to a higher level, so that we become
> transfigured... music has the potential to change our lives!

I should clarify that when I mentioned that most music was electronic I meant that our experience of it whether Gregorian chant, Field Hollars or whatever, all recorded music is electronic, even most live music uses amplification, PA systems. Most of us are geared towards this type of experience to the point where just sitting playing a piano, guitar, etc. has an air of unreality about it. One wonders what we sound like and trust a recording after the fact more than our ears in the moment. Recordings of symphonic music are some of the most artificial there are, as they're said to be without overdubs, but we know there are frequent minute edits to bring the performance closer to some unrealizable ideal of perfection.

The 19th C, really the Romantic period, represented the apogee of a certain type of vertical music developed since the advent of the tempered scale. Composers took the modulation of chords into different keys and the construction of traditional harmony as far as it could go. To say this was the highest point of music though is a very ethno-centric and class oriented idea. It pretends that most of the world doesn't exist and even within the narrow western confinesof Europe and America that only the bourgeoisie and upper classes count. Your average person in the 19th C had no opportunity to even be exposed to the music you love. The same people who patronized symphonies and operas were those that were the slave owners and exploited the poor for profit. The great music of the European tradition far from uplifting people spiritually served the status quo.
>
> In the 20th century, if one examines the popular culture,
> mankind has forgotten who it is more so than in previous
> times. Hormones ruin everything and it certainly holds us
> down. We are of the musical essence but we've become so
> enamoured of our physical existence, we've forgotten who we
> are to the extent it's hard for us to get back to a higher
> awareness and that's a lesson not lost on those that would
> seek to control and subjugate us and keep us in what we could
> call, a modestly comfortable level, in terms of most peoples'
> lifestyle. They like the attachments of the body and all
> things physical and we are ever more primitive, it would
> seem, if we examine popular culture, the entertainment, the
> music, the media - it's not exactly reaching for higher
> ideals. It's reaching for reproduction in many different
> guises. Music should elevate people instead of bringing them
> to a lower state!

I think people respond to different music in very different ways. One person's spiritual sublimity is another's bete noire. I think that's okay. Look at Deano's response elewhere on this thread. He finds the sublime in Lynard Skynard, whereas to me they were little more than redneck thugs writing songs upholding unpalatable ideas about the south. I'm not criticising Deano's interest in them, people should find their spirit wherever they can. I point it out because it speaks to the essential subjectivity of the appeal of culture. If Lynard Skynard elevates Deano that's great, who am I to suggest otherwise. I think you're succumbing to a nostalgia for what never was, imbuing people of earlier centuries with qualities they didn't possess. For all it's faults the 20th C has promoted more equality of access to culture than ever before. An interesting argument could be made of the impact on today's youth culture by the democratising affect of post war UK governments giving working class kids the option to attend art school rather than be shunted off to work in factories. It's amazing how much of the British invasion was just those kinds of kids and without them Americans might never have discovered the wealth in their own folk and blues traditions. Our country was too racially stratified to pick up on our black music without it being sold back to us by white foreigners. You I guess see that music as part of the problem, the control and manipulation mechanisms that hold us down, but I think you're confusing the spirit of the music with it's commodification. That the elites have attempted to commodify and sell the trappings of rebellion without its substance is no surprise, but has it entirely worked? I find much more questioning of paradigms among those who listen to jazz, rock, folk, ethnic, or the so-called art music of the 20th C than I do with those with elitist ideas about how music died with Mahler, or whoever. You are something of an anomaly as far as that goes. I can't take that narrow a view of it. I usually have an instinctive reaction to music and then become curious as to what about it appeals or doesn't and find there are a great many answers to both those questions and they may all miss the point.

Briffits

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 501 Jergat 09-Feb-04 08:32
Moderator note 147 Richard Fusniak 09-Feb-04 19:18
Re: Moderator note 146 Jergat 09-Feb-04 22:13
Re: Moderator note 128 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 00:23
Re: Moderator note 131 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 00:30
Re: Moderator note 132 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 00:50
Re: Moderator note 130 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 02:17
About the moderation process 139 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 02:54
Re: About the moderation process 126 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 03:07
Re: About the moderation process 141 Cleopatra 10-Feb-04 20:10
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 133 Hoppy 10-Feb-04 00:59
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 130 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 02:38
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 117 Jergat 10-Feb-04 05:36
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 188 Briffits 10-Feb-04 09:27
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 147 Milo 10-Feb-04 16:17
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 147 Paul Cochrane 10-Feb-04 17:48
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 131 Milo 10-Feb-04 18:11
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 127 David L 10-Feb-04 18:36
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 118 Milo 10-Feb-04 18:46
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 139 Paul Cochrane 10-Feb-04 18:43
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 118 Briffits 10-Feb-04 22:12
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 130 Milo 10-Feb-04 23:05
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 133 Briffits 11-Feb-04 00:03
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 127 Milo 11-Feb-04 00:07
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 128 Briffits 11-Feb-04 10:25
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 130 Milo 11-Feb-04 15:19
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 124 Briffits 11-Feb-04 20:19
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 124 Milo 11-Feb-04 23:01
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 127 Briffits 12-Feb-04 00:23
Henceforth and forthwith... 142 Milo 12-Feb-04 00:53
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 125 Milo 11-Feb-04 17:08
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 131 Briffits 11-Feb-04 19:17
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 123 Milo 11-Feb-04 19:30
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 132 Hoppy 10-Feb-04 14:55
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 131 David L 10-Feb-04 01:23
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 139 Milo 10-Feb-04 02:15
Music from other spheres 143 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 02:59
Re: Music from other spheres 117 Milo 10-Feb-04 03:11
Possibly wrong again 127 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 03:15
Re: Possibly wrong again 128 Milo 10-Feb-04 03:24
Musical mediums 131 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 12:58
Musical plane 141 Kees 10-Feb-04 13:53
Re: Musical plane 126 Milo 10-Feb-04 15:48
Re: Musical plane 132 Kees 10-Feb-04 16:10
Re: Musical mediums 124 Milo 10-Feb-04 15:49
Re: Musical mediums 139 Thirdwave 10-Feb-04 16:14
Re: Musical mediums 122 Milo 10-Feb-04 16:25
Re: Musical mediums 132 Thirdwave 10-Feb-04 19:02
Re: Musical mediums 122 Milo 10-Feb-04 19:10
Poo-Pooing "channels" 127 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 22:19
Re: Poo-Pooing 127 Milo 10-Feb-04 23:09
Re: Possibly wrong again 126 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 03:49
Talking of Bach.... 128 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 09:29
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 133 David L 10-Feb-04 18:32
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 114 Milo 10-Feb-04 18:58
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 132 fiascohoho 10-Feb-04 02:29
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 140 David L 10-Feb-04 18:39
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 127 Milo 10-Feb-04 19:01
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 130 David L 10-Feb-04 19:12
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 129 Milo 10-Feb-04 19:20
Gifts 107 Jergat 10-Feb-04 20:44
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 134 David L 10-Feb-04 23:35
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 175 Saorsa 10-Feb-04 14:38
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 122 David L 10-Feb-04 19:05
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 179 Saorsa 11-Feb-04 08:29
Pray Mr. Lamond, tell me... 147 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 15:05
Re: Pray Mr. Lamond, tell me... 131 David L 10-Feb-04 18:51
Re: Pray Mr. Lamond, tell me... 133 Milo 10-Feb-04 19:04
Re: Pray Mr. Lamond, tell me... 121 David L 10-Feb-04 19:13
Listening By Numbers 153 Thirdwave 10-Feb-04 15:20
Re: Listening By Numbers 128 David L 10-Feb-04 19:19
Re: Listening By Numbers 121 Thirdwave 10-Feb-04 19:43
Re: Listening By Numbers 136 David L 10-Feb-04 23:39
Re: Listening By Numbers 127 Briffits 11-Feb-04 03:11
Re: Listening By Numbers 130 Thirdwave 12-Feb-04 17:46
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 132 Kees 10-Feb-04 15:25
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 120 Hoppy 10-Feb-04 18:36
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 155 Mark Staab 11-Feb-04 06:08
Work work work 132 Kees 11-Feb-04 10:36
Re: Music Synchronicity Part 2: Music vs. Idea 119 David L 10-Feb-04 19:24
Books 123 Richard Fusniak 10-Feb-04 22:36
Re: Books 123 David L 10-Feb-04 23:44
Teachers 129 Richard Fusniak 11-Feb-04 02:08
Re: Teachers 122 David L 11-Feb-04 03:07
Re: Teachers 136 Kees 11-Feb-04 10:16
Re: Teachers 124 David L 11-Feb-04 17:47
The yoga of sound 143 Kees 11-Feb-04 21:55
Re: The yoga of sound 123 David L 11-Feb-04 22:07
Small world indeed 124 Kees 11-Feb-04 22:42
Re: Teachers 126 Richard Fusniak 11-Feb-04 23:24
Re: Teachers 123 David L 12-Feb-04 01:49
Spirtual arrogance and delusion 133 Richard Fusniak 12-Feb-04 02:18
An apology 119 Richard Fusniak 12-Feb-04 12:34
Re: An apology 119 fisherman 12-Feb-04 16:11
Re: An apology 146 David L 12-Feb-04 19:46
The wheel of life. 128 Richard Fusniak 13-Feb-04 01:32
The Catapillar and the Butterfly 131 Milo 13-Feb-04 01:35
Re: The Catapillar and the Butterfly 282 David L 13-Feb-04 02:52
Re: The wheel of life. 119 David L 13-Feb-04 02:50
Re: Teachers 121 Hoppy 11-Feb-04 03:19
Re: Teachers 125 David L 11-Feb-04 17:48
Re: Teachers 126 Hoppy 11-Feb-04 20:08


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