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Cesar wrote:
>
> Hi David,
>
> A few questions...
> What would you concider to be the youngest age one is to be
> initiated? What do you think of a surcumstance where a young
> child is initiated; would you say that if it's time it's time
> and that all things have their time and if ones ready they
> are indeed ready?

The youngest one I know of is a 7 year-old girl.(she's 8 or 9 now) My daughter was initiated fully at ten. I say "fully" because my teacher sometimes gives partial initiations. Age has nothing to do with it... When they're ready, they're ready. Now...a person still may have a lot of karma to burn through after initiation. Obviously a pre-teen child is going to have to go through the same things every young person does...in my case, I went through a lot before initiation, in other cases, people go through these things after initiation. That's the karma, the teacher knows the karma--all of it, every lifetime--and acts appropriately and accordingly. It is the Holy Spirit, the Shabd coming through the teacher, and no mistakes can be made if the teacher is real.
There are children in the world today thatt are so much more evolved, so much "older" souls than 99.999% of the adults... Like I said--age cuts no ice on the spiritual path. It's about "What level are they? What is the state of their awareness?"

> What do you think the simplest form of initiation is?, is
> simply saying a few things that open the door to a whole
> other world of occurance due to things said which cause one
> to think and advance in an alternative way to that of which
> they would have without conciderable by you as an initiation?

Words do not open any doors. A mantra is for occupying the mind--the left-brain part of us--with the purpose of stilling or slowing down the endless mental stream of chatter that we all have in our heads.
What opens doors is what the teacher does on an inner level, invisible to the initiate. Most of what an initiate needs, they already have before initiation. The teacher brings it to the fore in the initiates waking consciousness. We are all connected to God before initiation, but the longing for God and the path to God need to be jump-started. Sometimes this happens before initiation, but it never happens as a result of the effort of the seeker. It is always grace from God--directly from the Shabd, or through the teacher--and they are rreally one and the same, anyway.

> What word do you use for 'earth energy vortexi'?) when one is
> experiencing the oneness with the earth element as this one
> is the one in which something other than 'normal' occures as
> opposed to the 'normalcy' of the oneness of the other elements.

I can't help with this because I don't experience the elements the way you seem to be. The mystical elements originate in the region of Mind--they come down through all the mental and astral and etheric levels and combine to make up the creation. We have all of them in us--earth air fire water ether. Different beings--species--have different combinations of these "tattwas". In meditation, we may experience them as blobs or flashes of color. That's about all I can tell you.
David

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Questions about Truth 594 adequatedane 24-Jan-04 10:24
Re: Questions about Truth 121 Segestan 24-Jan-04 14:00
Re: Questions about Truth 113 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:38
Re: Questions about Truth 146 gene douglas 24-Jan-04 14:57
Re: Questions about Truth 119 Alex S 25-Jan-04 01:13
Re: Questions about Truth 112 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 04:04
Re: Questions about Truth 123 Alex S 26-Jan-04 01:18
Re: Questions about Truth 133 gene douglas 26-Jan-04 02:14
Re: Questions about Truth 121 Alex S 27-Jan-04 01:57
Re: Questions about Truth 110 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 09:44
Re: Questions about Truth 101 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:34
Re: Questions about Truth 127 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:42
Re: Questions about Truth 119 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 10:05
Re: Questions about Truth 121 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 11:21
Re: Questions about Truth 115 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 15:40
Re: Questions about Truth 125 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 16:14
Re: Questions about Truth 119 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 17:06
Re: Questions about Truth 107 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 21:51
Re: Questions about Truth 116 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:50
Re: Questions about Truth 108 David L 24-Jan-04 15:55
Re: Questions about Truth 99 newrisingsun 24-Jan-04 17:32
Re: Questions about Truth 120 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:40
Re: Questions about Truth 140 David L 25-Jan-04 03:46
Re: Questions about Truth 110 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:45
Re: Questions about Truth 121 David L 25-Jan-04 20:49
Re: Questions about Truth 136 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:37
Re: Questions about Truth 115 David L 25-Jan-04 17:31
Re: Questions about Truth 107 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:55
Re: Questions about Truth 127 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 23:04
Re: Questions about Truth 108 David L 28-Jan-04 23:28
Re: Questions about Truth 110 adequatedane 29-Jan-04 23:01
Re: Questions about Truth 118 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 23:26
Re: Questions about Truth 123 David L 30-Jan-04 03:24
Re: Questions about Truth 132 wirelessguru1 30-Jan-04 03:48
Re: Questions about Truth 138 David L 30-Jan-04 22:32
Re: Questions about Truth 108 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 00:30
Re: Questions about Truth 104 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 21:01
Re: Questions about Truth 123 David L 30-Jan-04 22:24
Re: Questions about Truth 108 banah 31-Jan-04 09:13
Re: Questions about Truth 113 David L 31-Jan-04 14:20
Re: Questions about Truth 135 banah 31-Jan-04 20:20
Re: Questions about Truth 121 David L 01-Feb-04 01:59
Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 108 Richard Fusniak 01-Feb-04 14:28
Re: Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 146 banah 01-Feb-04 17:21
Re: Questions about Truth 107 Zurg 03-Feb-04 08:12
Re: Questions about Truth 108 banah 04-Feb-04 10:58
Re: Questions about Truth 136 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:17
Re: Questions about Truth 121 banah 31-Jan-04 09:20
Re: Questions about Truth 128 David L 30-Jan-04 03:26
We don't live in a "true or false" world... 107 David L 30-Jan-04 03:30
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 124 banah 31-Jan-04 09:27
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 113 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:53
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 108 David L 31-Jan-04 13:38
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 115 banah 31-Jan-04 20:47
Re: Questions about Truth 95 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:50
Re: Questions about Truth 134 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:48
Re: Questions about Truth 132 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:49
Re: Questions about Truth 123 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:00
Re: Questions about Truth 139 RichardC 26-Jan-04 23:32
Re: Questions about Truth 137 banah 25-Jan-04 17:56
Re: Questions about Truth 112 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:24
No such thing 128 Nejc 25-Jan-04 23:13
Re: No such thing 129 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:40
Re: No such thing 111 Alex S 27-Jan-04 14:13
Re: No such thing 110 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 19:01
Re: Questions about Truth 125 Mark Staab 25-Jan-04 23:35
Re: Questions about Truth 116 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 00:15
Re: Questions about Truth 115 Mark Staab 27-Jan-04 02:00
Re: Questions about Truth 111 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:40
Re: Questions about Truth 128 banah 30-Jan-04 19:40
Re: Questions about Truth 107 Mark Staab 30-Jan-04 22:22
Re: Questions about Truth 117 banah 31-Jan-04 11:05
Re: Questions about Truth 153 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 06:33
Re: Questions about Truth 145 banah 01-Feb-04 11:48
Re: Questions about Truth 117 adequatedane 01-Feb-04 16:06
Re: Questions about Truth 107 banah 01-Feb-04 17:25
Re: Questions about Truth 125 adequatedane 02-Feb-04 23:58
Re: Questions about Truth 129 banah 04-Feb-04 11:04
Re: Questions about Truth 117 adequatedane 05-Feb-04 22:26
Re: Questions about Truth 101 banah 07-Feb-04 13:19
Re: Questions about Truth 138 adequatedane 07-Feb-04 14:47
Re: ps 114 banah 01-Feb-04 17:29
Re: Questions about Truth 107 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 23:42
Re: Questions about Truth 107 banah 04-Feb-04 11:07
Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 136 David L 01-Feb-04 21:33
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 132 Mark Staab 02-Feb-04 02:09
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 149 David L 02-Feb-04 23:50
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 114 Mark Staab 03-Feb-04 05:57
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 152 David L 03-Feb-04 16:11
Regarding the Old Testament... 107 David L 03-Feb-04 16:19
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 121 banah 04-Feb-04 10:45
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 103 David L 04-Feb-04 13:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 119 Mark Staab 05-Feb-04 00:38
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 100 David L 05-Feb-04 01:07
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 131 banah 05-Feb-04 16:48
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 118 David L 05-Feb-04 19:51
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 119 wirelessguru1 06-Feb-04 00:50
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 138 David L 06-Feb-04 01:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 128 wirelessguru1 06-Feb-04 02:24
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 102 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:36
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 115 adequatedane 06-Feb-04 14:09
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 117 David L 06-Feb-04 18:37
Who speaks the truth... 129 wirelessguru1 07-Feb-04 01:37
Re: Who speaks the truth... 121 David L 07-Feb-04 06:12
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 118 banah 07-Feb-04 13:05
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 142 David L 07-Feb-04 15:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 120 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 106 wirelessguru1 07-Feb-04 02:28
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 124 Anne-Marie 07-Feb-04 08:19
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 104 banah 07-Feb-04 13:13
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 119 David L 07-Feb-04 16:17
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 119 Cesar 07-Feb-04 17:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 162 David L 07-Feb-04 17:48
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 116 Anne-Marie 07-Feb-04 19:59
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 118 David L 07-Feb-04 22:01
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 123 wirelessguru1 08-Feb-04 19:23
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 122 Anne-Marie 08-Feb-04 20:18
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 432 wirelessguru1 08-Feb-04 21:08
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 114 Cesar 08-Feb-04 18:31
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 106 David L 08-Feb-04 19:15
Re: Questions about Truth 125 Caduceus 27-Jan-04 01:32
Re: Questions about Truth 131 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:49
Re: Questions about Truth 110 Caduceus 29-Jan-04 04:12
Re: Questions about Truth 124 xiang 27-Jan-04 03:16
Re: Questions about Truth 113 Caduceus 27-Jan-04 10:53
Re: Questions about Truth 121 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 17:49
Re: Questions about Truth 108 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:13
Re: Questions about Truth 119 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 22:28
Re: Questions about Truth 113 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 23:16
Re: Questions about Truth 137 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:04
Re: Questions about Truth 129 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 21:32
Re: Questions about Truth 127 xiang 28-Jan-04 01:50
Re: Questions about Truth 129 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 21:55
Re: Questions about Truth 126 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 07:57
Re: Questions about Truth 114 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 23:24
Re: Questions about Truth 106 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:24
Re: Questions about Truth 111 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 22:22
Re: Questions about Truth 102 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 01:03
Re: Questions about Truth 101 adequatedane 29-Jan-04 23:35
Re: Questions about Truth 116 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 23:56
Re: Questions about Truth 139 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 02:19
Re: Questions about Truth 119 wirelessguru1 30-Jan-04 03:15
Re: Questions about Truth 112 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 21:32
Re: Questions about Truth 128 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 01:04
Re: Questions about Truth 134 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 09:23
Re: Questions about Truth 114 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 19:33
Re: Questions about Truth 127 Zurg 30-Jan-04 13:19
Re: Questions about Truth 117 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 22:07
Re: Questions about Truth 123 Dominick Ohrbeck 30-Jan-04 21:39
Re: Questions about Truth 114 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:47
Re: Questions about Truth 114 Cesar 08-Feb-04 11:51


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