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Cesar wrote:
>
> Hi David,
>
> A few questions...
> What would you concider to be the youngest age one is to be
> initiated? What do you think of a surcumstance where a young
> child is initiated; would you say that if it's time it's time
> and that all things have their time and if ones ready they
> are indeed ready?

The youngest one I know of is a 7 year-old girl.(she's 8 or 9 now) My daughter was initiated fully at ten. I say "fully" because my teacher sometimes gives partial initiations. Age has nothing to do with it... When they're ready, they're ready. Now...a person still may have a lot of karma to burn through after initiation. Obviously a pre-teen child is going to have to go through the same things every young person does...in my case, I went through a lot before initiation, in other cases, people go through these things after initiation. That's the karma, the teacher knows the karma--all of it, every lifetime--and acts appropriately and accordingly. It is the Holy Spirit, the Shabd coming through the teacher, and no mistakes can be made if the teacher is real.
There are children in the world today thatt are so much more evolved, so much "older" souls than 99.999% of the adults... Like I said--age cuts no ice on the spiritual path. It's about "What level are they? What is the state of their awareness?"

> What do you think the simplest form of initiation is?, is
> simply saying a few things that open the door to a whole
> other world of occurance due to things said which cause one
> to think and advance in an alternative way to that of which
> they would have without conciderable by you as an initiation?

Words do not open any doors. A mantra is for occupying the mind--the left-brain part of us--with the purpose of stilling or slowing down the endless mental stream of chatter that we all have in our heads.
What opens doors is what the teacher does on an inner level, invisible to the initiate. Most of what an initiate needs, they already have before initiation. The teacher brings it to the fore in the initiates waking consciousness. We are all connected to God before initiation, but the longing for God and the path to God need to be jump-started. Sometimes this happens before initiation, but it never happens as a result of the effort of the seeker. It is always grace from God--directly from the Shabd, or through the teacher--and they are rreally one and the same, anyway.

> What word do you use for 'earth energy vortexi'?) when one is
> experiencing the oneness with the earth element as this one
> is the one in which something other than 'normal' occures as
> opposed to the 'normalcy' of the oneness of the other elements.

I can't help with this because I don't experience the elements the way you seem to be. The mystical elements originate in the region of Mind--they come down through all the mental and astral and etheric levels and combine to make up the creation. We have all of them in us--earth air fire water ether. Different beings--species--have different combinations of these "tattwas". In meditation, we may experience them as blobs or flashes of color. That's about all I can tell you.
David

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Questions about Truth 647 adequatedane 24-Jan-04 10:24
Re: Questions about Truth 142 Segestan 24-Jan-04 14:00
Re: Questions about Truth 132 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:38
Re: Questions about Truth 169 gene douglas 24-Jan-04 14:57
Re: Questions about Truth 139 Alex S 25-Jan-04 01:13
Re: Questions about Truth 135 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 04:04
Re: Questions about Truth 144 Alex S 26-Jan-04 01:18
Re: Questions about Truth 155 gene douglas 26-Jan-04 02:14
Re: Questions about Truth 141 Alex S 27-Jan-04 01:57
Re: Questions about Truth 132 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 09:44
Re: Questions about Truth 122 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:34
Re: Questions about Truth 151 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:42
Re: Questions about Truth 141 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 10:05
Re: Questions about Truth 144 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 11:21
Re: Questions about Truth 136 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 15:40
Re: Questions about Truth 149 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 16:14
Re: Questions about Truth 141 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 17:06
Re: Questions about Truth 130 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 21:51
Re: Questions about Truth 140 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:50
Re: Questions about Truth 133 David L 24-Jan-04 15:55
Re: Questions about Truth 123 newrisingsun 24-Jan-04 17:32
Re: Questions about Truth 140 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:40
Re: Questions about Truth 161 David L 25-Jan-04 03:46
Re: Questions about Truth 133 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:45
Re: Questions about Truth 140 David L 25-Jan-04 20:49
Re: Questions about Truth 156 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:37
Re: Questions about Truth 136 David L 25-Jan-04 17:31
Re: Questions about Truth 128 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:55
Re: Questions about Truth 149 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 23:04
Re: Questions about Truth 125 David L 28-Jan-04 23:28
Re: Questions about Truth 131 adequatedane 29-Jan-04 23:01
Re: Questions about Truth 138 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 23:26
Re: Questions about Truth 144 David L 30-Jan-04 03:24
Re: Questions about Truth 153 wirelessguru1 30-Jan-04 03:48
Re: Questions about Truth 160 David L 30-Jan-04 22:32
Re: Questions about Truth 130 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 00:30
Re: Questions about Truth 127 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 21:01
Re: Questions about Truth 144 David L 30-Jan-04 22:24
Re: Questions about Truth 129 banah 31-Jan-04 09:13
Re: Questions about Truth 135 David L 31-Jan-04 14:20
Re: Questions about Truth 156 banah 31-Jan-04 20:20
Re: Questions about Truth 143 David L 01-Feb-04 01:59
Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 129 Richard Fusniak 01-Feb-04 14:28
Re: Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 177 banah 01-Feb-04 17:21
Re: Questions about Truth 129 Zurg 03-Feb-04 08:12
Re: Questions about Truth 127 banah 04-Feb-04 10:58
Re: Questions about Truth 158 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:17
Re: Questions about Truth 141 banah 31-Jan-04 09:20
Re: Questions about Truth 154 David L 30-Jan-04 03:26
We don't live in a "true or false" world... 131 David L 30-Jan-04 03:30
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 146 banah 31-Jan-04 09:27
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 134 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:53
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 128 David L 31-Jan-04 13:38
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 134 banah 31-Jan-04 20:47
Re: Questions about Truth 116 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:50
Re: Questions about Truth 159 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:48
Re: Questions about Truth 150 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:49
Re: Questions about Truth 144 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:00
Re: Questions about Truth 166 RichardC 26-Jan-04 23:32
Re: Questions about Truth 150 banah 25-Jan-04 17:56
Re: Questions about Truth 135 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:24
No such thing 148 Nejc 25-Jan-04 23:13
Re: No such thing 150 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:40
Re: No such thing 133 Alex S 27-Jan-04 14:13
Re: No such thing 132 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 19:01
Re: Questions about Truth 150 Mark Staab 25-Jan-04 23:35
Re: Questions about Truth 138 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 00:15
Re: Questions about Truth 138 Mark Staab 27-Jan-04 02:00
Re: Questions about Truth 135 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:40
Re: Questions about Truth 148 banah 30-Jan-04 19:40
Re: Questions about Truth 130 Mark Staab 30-Jan-04 22:22
Re: Questions about Truth 142 banah 31-Jan-04 11:05
Re: Questions about Truth 177 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 06:33
Re: Questions about Truth 167 banah 01-Feb-04 11:48
Re: Questions about Truth 138 adequatedane 01-Feb-04 16:06
Re: Questions about Truth 127 banah 01-Feb-04 17:25
Re: Questions about Truth 146 adequatedane 02-Feb-04 23:58
Re: Questions about Truth 149 banah 04-Feb-04 11:04
Re: Questions about Truth 139 adequatedane 05-Feb-04 22:26
Re: Questions about Truth 122 banah 07-Feb-04 13:19
Re: Questions about Truth 160 adequatedane 07-Feb-04 14:47
Re: ps 135 banah 01-Feb-04 17:29
Re: Questions about Truth 129 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 23:42
Re: Questions about Truth 127 banah 04-Feb-04 11:07
Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 153 David L 01-Feb-04 21:33
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 154 Mark Staab 02-Feb-04 02:09
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 177 David L 02-Feb-04 23:50
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 135 Mark Staab 03-Feb-04 05:57
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 170 David L 03-Feb-04 16:11
Regarding the Old Testament... 128 David L 03-Feb-04 16:19
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 141 banah 04-Feb-04 10:45
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 124 David L 04-Feb-04 13:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 142 Mark Staab 05-Feb-04 00:38
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 120 David L 05-Feb-04 01:07
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 151 banah 05-Feb-04 16:48
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 143 David L 05-Feb-04 19:51
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 139 wirelessguru1 06-Feb-04 00:50
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 161 David L 06-Feb-04 01:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 149 wirelessguru1 06-Feb-04 02:24
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 123 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:36
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 140 adequatedane 06-Feb-04 14:09
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 136 David L 06-Feb-04 18:37
Who speaks the truth... 150 wirelessguru1 07-Feb-04 01:37
Re: Who speaks the truth... 145 David L 07-Feb-04 06:12
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 143 banah 07-Feb-04 13:05
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 166 David L 07-Feb-04 15:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 139 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 128 wirelessguru1 07-Feb-04 02:28
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 146 Anne-Marie 07-Feb-04 08:19
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 124 banah 07-Feb-04 13:13
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 140 David L 07-Feb-04 16:17
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 140 Cesar 07-Feb-04 17:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 183 David L 07-Feb-04 17:48
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 137 Anne-Marie 07-Feb-04 19:59
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 147 David L 07-Feb-04 22:01
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 154 wirelessguru1 08-Feb-04 19:23
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 143 Anne-Marie 08-Feb-04 20:18
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 463 wirelessguru1 08-Feb-04 21:08
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 133 Cesar 08-Feb-04 18:31
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 129 David L 08-Feb-04 19:15
Re: Questions about Truth 149 Caduceus 27-Jan-04 01:32
Re: Questions about Truth 150 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:49
Re: Questions about Truth 134 Caduceus 29-Jan-04 04:12
Re: Questions about Truth 152 xiang 27-Jan-04 03:16
Re: Questions about Truth 134 Caduceus 27-Jan-04 10:53
Re: Questions about Truth 146 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 17:49
Re: Questions about Truth 130 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:13
Re: Questions about Truth 140 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 22:28
Re: Questions about Truth 133 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 23:16
Re: Questions about Truth 165 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:04
Re: Questions about Truth 150 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 21:32
Re: Questions about Truth 141 xiang 28-Jan-04 01:50
Re: Questions about Truth 151 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 21:55
Re: Questions about Truth 147 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 07:57
Re: Questions about Truth 136 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 23:24
Re: Questions about Truth 125 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:24
Re: Questions about Truth 133 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 22:22
Re: Questions about Truth 120 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 01:03
Re: Questions about Truth 121 adequatedane 29-Jan-04 23:35
Re: Questions about Truth 136 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 23:56
Re: Questions about Truth 156 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 02:19
Re: Questions about Truth 138 wirelessguru1 30-Jan-04 03:15
Re: Questions about Truth 129 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 21:32
Re: Questions about Truth 148 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 01:04
Re: Questions about Truth 153 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 09:23
Re: Questions about Truth 133 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 19:33
Re: Questions about Truth 145 Zurg 30-Jan-04 13:19
Re: Questions about Truth 135 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 22:07
Re: Questions about Truth 143 Dominick Ohrbeck 30-Jan-04 21:39
Re: Questions about Truth 131 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:47
Re: Questions about Truth 132 Cesar 08-Feb-04 11:51


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