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Hi banah
You are welcome!
I have some questions and comments on the subject of guilt.Sorry I still haven't read your entire post.Hopefully I was planning to finish it at work,but I couldn't.So I apologize if I'm writting about something you cover further along in your text.A little background before I begin.A few years ago I became involved with the cognitive(thoughts) approach to treating depression when a family member was diagnosed and couldn't afford help.The cognitive approach to depression is based upon the idea that our thoughts create our emotions.These thoughts are primarily negative and contain thinking distortions that make them appear true.It is the appearance of truth that makes depression such a debilitaing problem.One believes that they are reacting/responding in a rational manner.But they really aren't they are really reacting/responding in a irrational manner that is not giving them what they are actually trying to recieve.It is this belief that they are truthfully reacting /responding according to normal rational behavior that masks the problems created for the individual suffering from depression.The feelings of guilt are a core emotion felt by almost all sufferers of depression.Although on can feel guilt without suffering from depression.It is almost impossible to have depression without a negative core thinking pattern containing guilt.
At the core of this guilt is the concept of 'badness of self'.Usually based upon the following premises.Feeling guilty shows that I have done something or failed to have done something based upon my concepts/beliefs of morality and fairness.Because of this I am a bad person.Since I am a bad person I am inferior and/or worth less than I was before this guilty transaction.The healthy undepressed emotion for a action violating our code of fairness/morality,etc. is remorse.
Remorse is different than guilt because it focuses upon an action not upon the worth of a person.Remorse usually contains thoughts and emotions of forgiveness where guilt usually contains thoughts of self punishment.When people suffer from depression this core thought process of guilt usually makes them feel transparent or "naked".They believe that their inherent badness is so obvious that they try to hide it.Not only from others but from themselves also.Depression from a cognitive perspective is a process.It isn't something that just springs up overnight.It appears this way sometimes because it can be triggered or accelerated by events traumatic to the individual.
It seems to me that the story of Adam and Eve and the eating of the fruit shows many of the symptoms of depression of which illustrates not only feelings of guilt(nakedness)but also other depressed emotions such as anxiety(thoughts based upon fear of retaliation and/or punishment) and shame(thoughts based upon others finding out and looking down upon the person).The irrational thinking processes used by depressed people becomes automatic.Etched inside their subconscious.Depressed behavior becomes so real and true that a depressed person accepts it without question.They pick up and use depressed thinking patterns in a automatic manner just like one picks up a fork when a plate of food is set before them.
The problem with this automatic negative thought process is that it isn't based upon truth(recieving positive,negative and neutral thoughts)but upon using lies(deception of negative thoughts only) in decision making and reactions.It is this deception that presents the world as negative to the depressed individual.Is this what God was trying to prevent by forbiding them from taking of the "tree of knowledge,"falling into depression?In other words living a lie.Because this is what depression becomes.It becomes a life where one lives mainly in a world of lies.
I don't believe that God was afraid of humans having or obtaining knowledge.As you wrote,and I agree,they already had knowledge or gnosis.He was afraid,I believe,that they would fall prey to some other kind of thinking process that wasn't based upon the truth or allowed the truth to dominantly prevail.This seems to be the problem today.He was possibly afraid when he kicked Adam and Eve out of the Garden that they would also eat of the,"Tree of Life,"and would become immortal liers or people who based decisions,actions/reactions on lies not on truth.
Let me know what you think.



Thank you,dane

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Questions about Truth 589 adequatedane 24-Jan-04 10:24
Re: Questions about Truth 120 Segestan 24-Jan-04 14:00
Re: Questions about Truth 112 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:38
Re: Questions about Truth 146 gene douglas 24-Jan-04 14:57
Re: Questions about Truth 118 Alex S 25-Jan-04 01:13
Re: Questions about Truth 112 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 04:04
Re: Questions about Truth 122 Alex S 26-Jan-04 01:18
Re: Questions about Truth 133 gene douglas 26-Jan-04 02:14
Re: Questions about Truth 120 Alex S 27-Jan-04 01:57
Re: Questions about Truth 110 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 09:44
Re: Questions about Truth 100 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:34
Re: Questions about Truth 127 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:42
Re: Questions about Truth 119 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 10:05
Re: Questions about Truth 120 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 11:21
Re: Questions about Truth 114 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 15:40
Re: Questions about Truth 125 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 16:14
Re: Questions about Truth 118 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 17:06
Re: Questions about Truth 106 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 21:51
Re: Questions about Truth 116 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:50
Re: Questions about Truth 106 David L 24-Jan-04 15:55
Re: Questions about Truth 99 newrisingsun 24-Jan-04 17:32
Re: Questions about Truth 119 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:40
Re: Questions about Truth 139 David L 25-Jan-04 03:46
Re: Questions about Truth 110 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:45
Re: Questions about Truth 119 David L 25-Jan-04 20:49
Re: Questions about Truth 135 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:37
Re: Questions about Truth 114 David L 25-Jan-04 17:31
Re: Questions about Truth 107 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:55
Re: Questions about Truth 126 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 23:04
Re: Questions about Truth 107 David L 28-Jan-04 23:28
Re: Questions about Truth 109 adequatedane 29-Jan-04 23:01
Re: Questions about Truth 117 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 23:26
Re: Questions about Truth 122 David L 30-Jan-04 03:24
Re: Questions about Truth 132 wirelessguru1 30-Jan-04 03:48
Re: Questions about Truth 135 David L 30-Jan-04 22:32
Re: Questions about Truth 107 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 00:30
Re: Questions about Truth 104 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 21:01
Re: Questions about Truth 122 David L 30-Jan-04 22:24
Re: Questions about Truth 107 banah 31-Jan-04 09:13
Re: Questions about Truth 112 David L 31-Jan-04 14:20
Re: Questions about Truth 134 banah 31-Jan-04 20:20
Re: Questions about Truth 120 David L 01-Feb-04 01:59
Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 108 Richard Fusniak 01-Feb-04 14:28
Re: Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 146 banah 01-Feb-04 17:21
Re: Questions about Truth 107 Zurg 03-Feb-04 08:12
Re: Questions about Truth 108 banah 04-Feb-04 10:58
Re: Questions about Truth 135 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:17
Re: Questions about Truth 120 banah 31-Jan-04 09:20
Re: Questions about Truth 125 David L 30-Jan-04 03:26
We don't live in a "true or false" world... 107 David L 30-Jan-04 03:30
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 123 banah 31-Jan-04 09:27
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 112 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:53
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 107 David L 31-Jan-04 13:38
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 113 banah 31-Jan-04 20:47
Re: Questions about Truth 95 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:50
Re: Questions about Truth 133 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:48
Re: Questions about Truth 131 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:49
Re: Questions about Truth 122 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:00
Re: Questions about Truth 138 RichardC 26-Jan-04 23:32
Re: Questions about Truth 137 banah 25-Jan-04 17:56
Re: Questions about Truth 111 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:24
No such thing 127 Nejc 25-Jan-04 23:13
Re: No such thing 128 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:40
Re: No such thing 110 Alex S 27-Jan-04 14:13
Re: No such thing 110 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 19:01
Re: Questions about Truth 125 Mark Staab 25-Jan-04 23:35
Re: Questions about Truth 115 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 00:15
Re: Questions about Truth 114 Mark Staab 27-Jan-04 02:00
Re: Questions about Truth 111 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:40
Re: Questions about Truth 127 banah 30-Jan-04 19:40
Re: Questions about Truth 107 Mark Staab 30-Jan-04 22:22
Re: Questions about Truth 117 banah 31-Jan-04 11:05
Re: Questions about Truth 152 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 06:33
Re: Questions about Truth 144 banah 01-Feb-04 11:48
Re: Questions about Truth 116 adequatedane 01-Feb-04 16:06
Re: Questions about Truth 107 banah 01-Feb-04 17:25
Re: Questions about Truth 124 adequatedane 02-Feb-04 23:58
Re: Questions about Truth 129 banah 04-Feb-04 11:04
Re: Questions about Truth 117 adequatedane 05-Feb-04 22:26
Re: Questions about Truth 100 banah 07-Feb-04 13:19
Re: Questions about Truth 137 adequatedane 07-Feb-04 14:47
Re: ps 113 banah 01-Feb-04 17:29
Re: Questions about Truth 106 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 23:42
Re: Questions about Truth 107 banah 04-Feb-04 11:07
Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 135 David L 01-Feb-04 21:33
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 132 Mark Staab 02-Feb-04 02:09
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 148 David L 02-Feb-04 23:50
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 113 Mark Staab 03-Feb-04 05:57
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 151 David L 03-Feb-04 16:11
Regarding the Old Testament... 106 David L 03-Feb-04 16:19
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 121 banah 04-Feb-04 10:45
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 103 David L 04-Feb-04 13:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 119 Mark Staab 05-Feb-04 00:38
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 99 David L 05-Feb-04 01:07
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 131 banah 05-Feb-04 16:48
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 118 David L 05-Feb-04 19:51
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 118 wirelessguru1 06-Feb-04 00:50
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 137 David L 06-Feb-04 01:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 127 wirelessguru1 06-Feb-04 02:24
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 101 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:36
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 115 adequatedane 06-Feb-04 14:09
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 116 David L 06-Feb-04 18:37
Who speaks the truth... 128 wirelessguru1 07-Feb-04 01:37
Re: Who speaks the truth... 121 David L 07-Feb-04 06:12
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 118 banah 07-Feb-04 13:05
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 141 David L 07-Feb-04 15:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 119 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 106 wirelessguru1 07-Feb-04 02:28
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 124 Anne-Marie 07-Feb-04 08:19
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 103 banah 07-Feb-04 13:13
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 119 David L 07-Feb-04 16:17
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 118 Cesar 07-Feb-04 17:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 162 David L 07-Feb-04 17:48
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 115 Anne-Marie 07-Feb-04 19:59
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 118 David L 07-Feb-04 22:01
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 122 wirelessguru1 08-Feb-04 19:23
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 121 Anne-Marie 08-Feb-04 20:18
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 425 wirelessguru1 08-Feb-04 21:08
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 112 Cesar 08-Feb-04 18:31
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 106 David L 08-Feb-04 19:15
Re: Questions about Truth 124 Caduceus 27-Jan-04 01:32
Re: Questions about Truth 129 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:49
Re: Questions about Truth 110 Caduceus 29-Jan-04 04:12
Re: Questions about Truth 123 xiang 27-Jan-04 03:16
Re: Questions about Truth 112 Caduceus 27-Jan-04 10:53
Re: Questions about Truth 121 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 17:49
Re: Questions about Truth 107 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:13
Re: Questions about Truth 118 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 22:28
Re: Questions about Truth 112 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 23:16
Re: Questions about Truth 136 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:04
Re: Questions about Truth 128 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 21:32
Re: Questions about Truth 127 xiang 28-Jan-04 01:50
Re: Questions about Truth 128 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 21:55
Re: Questions about Truth 125 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 07:57
Re: Questions about Truth 114 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 23:24
Re: Questions about Truth 105 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:24
Re: Questions about Truth 111 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 22:22
Re: Questions about Truth 101 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 01:03
Re: Questions about Truth 100 adequatedane 29-Jan-04 23:35
Re: Questions about Truth 115 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 23:56
Re: Questions about Truth 138 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 02:19
Re: Questions about Truth 118 wirelessguru1 30-Jan-04 03:15
Re: Questions about Truth 112 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 21:32
Re: Questions about Truth 127 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 01:04
Re: Questions about Truth 132 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 09:23
Re: Questions about Truth 113 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 19:33
Re: Questions about Truth 126 Zurg 30-Jan-04 13:19
Re: Questions about Truth 116 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 22:07
Re: Questions about Truth 121 Dominick Ohrbeck 30-Jan-04 21:39
Re: Questions about Truth 113 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:47
Re: Questions about Truth 113 Cesar 08-Feb-04 11:51


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