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Hi banah
You are welcome!
I have some questions and comments on the subject of guilt.Sorry I still haven't read your entire post.Hopefully I was planning to finish it at work,but I couldn't.So I apologize if I'm writting about something you cover further along in your text.A little background before I begin.A few years ago I became involved with the cognitive(thoughts) approach to treating depression when a family member was diagnosed and couldn't afford help.The cognitive approach to depression is based upon the idea that our thoughts create our emotions.These thoughts are primarily negative and contain thinking distortions that make them appear true.It is the appearance of truth that makes depression such a debilitaing problem.One believes that they are reacting/responding in a rational manner.But they really aren't they are really reacting/responding in a irrational manner that is not giving them what they are actually trying to recieve.It is this belief that they are truthfully reacting /responding according to normal rational behavior that masks the problems created for the individual suffering from depression.The feelings of guilt are a core emotion felt by almost all sufferers of depression.Although on can feel guilt without suffering from depression.It is almost impossible to have depression without a negative core thinking pattern containing guilt.
At the core of this guilt is the concept of 'badness of self'.Usually based upon the following premises.Feeling guilty shows that I have done something or failed to have done something based upon my concepts/beliefs of morality and fairness.Because of this I am a bad person.Since I am a bad person I am inferior and/or worth less than I was before this guilty transaction.The healthy undepressed emotion for a action violating our code of fairness/morality,etc. is remorse.
Remorse is different than guilt because it focuses upon an action not upon the worth of a person.Remorse usually contains thoughts and emotions of forgiveness where guilt usually contains thoughts of self punishment.When people suffer from depression this core thought process of guilt usually makes them feel transparent or "naked".They believe that their inherent badness is so obvious that they try to hide it.Not only from others but from themselves also.Depression from a cognitive perspective is a process.It isn't something that just springs up overnight.It appears this way sometimes because it can be triggered or accelerated by events traumatic to the individual.
It seems to me that the story of Adam and Eve and the eating of the fruit shows many of the symptoms of depression of which illustrates not only feelings of guilt(nakedness)but also other depressed emotions such as anxiety(thoughts based upon fear of retaliation and/or punishment) and shame(thoughts based upon others finding out and looking down upon the person).The irrational thinking processes used by depressed people becomes automatic.Etched inside their subconscious.Depressed behavior becomes so real and true that a depressed person accepts it without question.They pick up and use depressed thinking patterns in a automatic manner just like one picks up a fork when a plate of food is set before them.
The problem with this automatic negative thought process is that it isn't based upon truth(recieving positive,negative and neutral thoughts)but upon using lies(deception of negative thoughts only) in decision making and reactions.It is this deception that presents the world as negative to the depressed individual.Is this what God was trying to prevent by forbiding them from taking of the "tree of knowledge,"falling into depression?In other words living a lie.Because this is what depression becomes.It becomes a life where one lives mainly in a world of lies.
I don't believe that God was afraid of humans having or obtaining knowledge.As you wrote,and I agree,they already had knowledge or gnosis.He was afraid,I believe,that they would fall prey to some other kind of thinking process that wasn't based upon the truth or allowed the truth to dominantly prevail.This seems to be the problem today.He was possibly afraid when he kicked Adam and Eve out of the Garden that they would also eat of the,"Tree of Life,"and would become immortal liers or people who based decisions,actions/reactions on lies not on truth.
Let me know what you think.



Thank you,dane

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Questions about Truth 660 adequatedane 24-Jan-04 10:24
Re: Questions about Truth 151 Segestan 24-Jan-04 14:00
Re: Questions about Truth 142 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:38
Re: Questions about Truth 180 gene douglas 24-Jan-04 14:57
Re: Questions about Truth 150 Alex S 25-Jan-04 01:13
Re: Questions about Truth 150 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 04:04
Re: Questions about Truth 156 Alex S 26-Jan-04 01:18
Re: Questions about Truth 167 gene douglas 26-Jan-04 02:14
Re: Questions about Truth 153 Alex S 27-Jan-04 01:57
Re: Questions about Truth 146 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 09:44
Re: Questions about Truth 136 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:34
Re: Questions about Truth 166 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:42
Re: Questions about Truth 153 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 10:05
Re: Questions about Truth 151 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 11:21
Re: Questions about Truth 143 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 15:40
Re: Questions about Truth 161 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 16:14
Re: Questions about Truth 151 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 17:06
Re: Questions about Truth 138 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 21:51
Re: Questions about Truth 151 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:50
Re: Questions about Truth 143 David L 24-Jan-04 15:55
Re: Questions about Truth 136 newrisingsun 24-Jan-04 17:32
Re: Questions about Truth 152 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:40
Re: Questions about Truth 170 David L 25-Jan-04 03:46
Re: Questions about Truth 144 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:45
Re: Questions about Truth 152 David L 25-Jan-04 20:49
Re: Questions about Truth 169 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:37
Re: Questions about Truth 148 David L 25-Jan-04 17:31
Re: Questions about Truth 139 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:55
Re: Questions about Truth 155 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 23:04
Re: Questions about Truth 131 David L 28-Jan-04 23:28
Re: Questions about Truth 138 adequatedane 29-Jan-04 23:01
Re: Questions about Truth 145 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 23:26
Re: Questions about Truth 156 David L 30-Jan-04 03:24
Re: Questions about Truth 163 wirelessguru1 30-Jan-04 03:48
Re: Questions about Truth 172 David L 30-Jan-04 22:32
Re: Questions about Truth 138 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 00:30
Re: Questions about Truth 139 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 21:01
Re: Questions about Truth 157 David L 30-Jan-04 22:24
Re: Questions about Truth 138 banah 31-Jan-04 09:13
Re: Questions about Truth 142 David L 31-Jan-04 14:20
Re: Questions about Truth 163 banah 31-Jan-04 20:20
Re: Questions about Truth 150 David L 01-Feb-04 01:59
Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 138 Richard Fusniak 01-Feb-04 14:28
Re: Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 190 banah 01-Feb-04 17:21
Re: Questions about Truth 141 Zurg 03-Feb-04 08:12
Re: Questions about Truth 136 banah 04-Feb-04 10:58
Re: Questions about Truth 167 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:17
Re: Questions about Truth 149 banah 31-Jan-04 09:20
Re: Questions about Truth 165 David L 30-Jan-04 03:26
We don't live in a "true or false" world... 144 David L 30-Jan-04 03:30
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 159 banah 31-Jan-04 09:27
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 146 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:53
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 140 David L 31-Jan-04 13:38
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 147 banah 31-Jan-04 20:47
Re: Questions about Truth 125 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:50
Re: Questions about Truth 172 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:48
Re: Questions about Truth 162 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:49
Re: Questions about Truth 158 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:00
Re: Questions about Truth 178 RichardC 26-Jan-04 23:32
Re: Questions about Truth 158 banah 25-Jan-04 17:56
Re: Questions about Truth 146 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:24
No such thing 157 Nejc 25-Jan-04 23:13
Re: No such thing 160 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:40
Re: No such thing 141 Alex S 27-Jan-04 14:13
Re: No such thing 144 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 19:01
Re: Questions about Truth 161 Mark Staab 25-Jan-04 23:35
Re: Questions about Truth 148 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 00:15
Re: Questions about Truth 149 Mark Staab 27-Jan-04 02:00
Re: Questions about Truth 146 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:40
Re: Questions about Truth 161 banah 30-Jan-04 19:40
Re: Questions about Truth 141 Mark Staab 30-Jan-04 22:22
Re: Questions about Truth 153 banah 31-Jan-04 11:05
Re: Questions about Truth 189 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 06:33
Re: Questions about Truth 181 banah 01-Feb-04 11:48
Re: Questions about Truth 149 adequatedane 01-Feb-04 16:06
Re: Questions about Truth 135 banah 01-Feb-04 17:25
Re: Questions about Truth 156 adequatedane 02-Feb-04 23:58
Re: Questions about Truth 159 banah 04-Feb-04 11:04
Re: Questions about Truth 153 adequatedane 05-Feb-04 22:26
Re: Questions about Truth 133 banah 07-Feb-04 13:19
Re: Questions about Truth 170 adequatedane 07-Feb-04 14:47
Re: ps 144 banah 01-Feb-04 17:29
Re: Questions about Truth 139 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 23:42
Re: Questions about Truth 136 banah 04-Feb-04 11:07
Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 162 David L 01-Feb-04 21:33
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 166 Mark Staab 02-Feb-04 02:09
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 196 David L 02-Feb-04 23:50
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 147 Mark Staab 03-Feb-04 05:57
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 179 David L 03-Feb-04 16:11
Regarding the Old Testament... 137 David L 03-Feb-04 16:19
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 153 banah 04-Feb-04 10:45
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 135 David L 04-Feb-04 13:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 155 Mark Staab 05-Feb-04 00:38
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 133 David L 05-Feb-04 01:07
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 162 banah 05-Feb-04 16:48
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 156 David L 05-Feb-04 19:51
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 151 wirelessguru1 06-Feb-04 00:50
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 171 David L 06-Feb-04 01:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 157 wirelessguru1 06-Feb-04 02:24
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 136 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:36
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 152 adequatedane 06-Feb-04 14:09
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 146 David L 06-Feb-04 18:37
Who speaks the truth... 166 wirelessguru1 07-Feb-04 01:37
Re: Who speaks the truth... 160 David L 07-Feb-04 06:12
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 155 banah 07-Feb-04 13:05
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 177 David L 07-Feb-04 15:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 155 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 139 wirelessguru1 07-Feb-04 02:28
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 158 Anne-Marie 07-Feb-04 08:19
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 132 banah 07-Feb-04 13:13
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 154 David L 07-Feb-04 16:17
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 150 Cesar 07-Feb-04 17:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 193 David L 07-Feb-04 17:48
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 149 Anne-Marie 07-Feb-04 19:59
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 161 David L 07-Feb-04 22:01
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 160 wirelessguru1 08-Feb-04 19:23
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 154 Anne-Marie 08-Feb-04 20:18
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 478 wirelessguru1 08-Feb-04 21:08
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 142 Cesar 08-Feb-04 18:31
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 140 David L 08-Feb-04 19:15
Re: Questions about Truth 162 Caduceus 27-Jan-04 01:32
Re: Questions about Truth 163 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:49
Re: Questions about Truth 146 Caduceus 29-Jan-04 04:12
Re: Questions about Truth 160 xiang 27-Jan-04 03:16
Re: Questions about Truth 144 Caduceus 27-Jan-04 10:53
Re: Questions about Truth 162 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 17:49
Re: Questions about Truth 141 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:13
Re: Questions about Truth 152 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 22:28
Re: Questions about Truth 140 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 23:16
Re: Questions about Truth 178 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:04
Re: Questions about Truth 163 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 21:32
Re: Questions about Truth 151 xiang 28-Jan-04 01:50
Re: Questions about Truth 160 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 21:55
Re: Questions about Truth 156 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 07:57
Re: Questions about Truth 147 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 23:24
Re: Questions about Truth 136 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:24
Re: Questions about Truth 142 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 22:22
Re: Questions about Truth 130 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 01:03
Re: Questions about Truth 129 adequatedane 29-Jan-04 23:35
Re: Questions about Truth 146 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 23:56
Re: Questions about Truth 169 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 02:19
Re: Questions about Truth 149 wirelessguru1 30-Jan-04 03:15
Re: Questions about Truth 137 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 21:32
Re: Questions about Truth 155 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 01:04
Re: Questions about Truth 168 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 09:23
Re: Questions about Truth 147 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 19:33
Re: Questions about Truth 163 Zurg 30-Jan-04 13:19
Re: Questions about Truth 148 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 22:07
Re: Questions about Truth 155 Dominick Ohrbeck 30-Jan-04 21:39
Re: Questions about Truth 142 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:47
Re: Questions about Truth 146 Cesar 08-Feb-04 11:51


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