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Hi David

>>He said he was one with the Father and would would make his followers one with the Father. That is tantamount to merging with God.

In context it goes like this :

John10:24 Then came the Jews around him, and said to him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou art the Christ, tell us plainly. 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness concerning me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said to you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give to them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, who gave them to me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shown you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

The context here is not that Jesus would at some later stage merge with the Father, but rather that He IS the Father ... Jesus and the Father are one and the same - Jesus is the Father made flesh

Here is another passage:

John1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. {comprehended: or, did not admit, or, receive}

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God was made flesh........ not the son merged into God, but the other way round ...... God begot a son.

John14:6 Jesus saith to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no man cometh to the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Here Jesus says plainly that since the disciples have seen Him, they have seen the Father ie Jesus is the Father......

John14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. {comfortless: or, orphans}
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

This Spirit dwells in flesh and blood men, not in "merged souls"...... the Holy Spirit is given to men while they are alive on earth, it is the Spirit of God that gives life, truth and direction.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved by my Father, and I will love him, and will reveal myself to him.
22 Judas, not Iscariot, saith to him, Lord, how is it that thou wilt reveal thyself to us, and not to the world?
23 Jesus answered and said to him, If a man loveth me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but that of the Father who sent me.
25 These things have I spoken to you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, who is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.

Here Jesus says that the Father and Son make their abode in men of faith ... not men of faith merge into the Father ... the Father and Son put their Spirit into man.

John15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken to you, that my joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full.

John17:6 I have manifested thy name to the men whom thou gavest to me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them to me; and they have kept thy word.

Jesus is God manifested in the flesh.

53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews to him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said to them, Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Jesus used the title I AM here to indicate that He is the same one who spoke to Moses from the burning bush. Jesus claimed the title YHWH (I am) which means "the existing one".

>>That statement was made by the writer of the Gospel of John, not by Jesus

>>All of these statement are true as far as they go. But Jesus was speaking only to his initiates, not the world.


So John the initiate didn't get it right then?

Mark16:14 Afterward he appeared to the eleven as they sat eating, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them who had seen him after he was risen. {at meat: or, together}
15 And he said to them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out demons; they shall speak in new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken to them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Jesus commands His "initiates" to tell the whole world about salvation through Him........ it is not for a select few initiates, but for "every creature"...

John10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known by mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so I know the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Jesus will bring all the "sheep" (those who believe in Him) into the fold....... not just the "initiates".......

>>And again:
Matthew 15:24
"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." >>

In context it reads:

Matthew 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same region, and cried to him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously afflicted with a demon.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not good to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.
28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it to thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
29 And Jesus departed from there, and came near to the sea of Galilee; and went up on a mountain, and sat down there.
30 And great multitudes came to him, having with them those that were lame, blind, dumb, maimed, and many others, and laid them down at Jesus’ feet; and he healed them:
31 So that the multitude wondered, when they saw the dumb to speak, the maimed to be whole, the lame to walk, and the blind to see: and they glorified the God of Israel.

This woman's faith is what counted - she certainly wasn't an "initiate".

Blessings
Banah

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Questions about Truth 722 adequatedane 24-Jan-04 10:24
Re: Questions about Truth 171 Segestan 24-Jan-04 14:00
Re: Questions about Truth 163 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:38
Re: Questions about Truth 204 gene douglas 24-Jan-04 14:57
Re: Questions about Truth 170 Alex S 25-Jan-04 01:13
Re: Questions about Truth 170 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 04:04
Re: Questions about Truth 179 Alex S 26-Jan-04 01:18
Re: Questions about Truth 189 gene douglas 26-Jan-04 02:14
Re: Questions about Truth 172 Alex S 27-Jan-04 01:57
Re: Questions about Truth 167 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 09:44
Re: Questions about Truth 158 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:34
Re: Questions about Truth 187 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:42
Re: Questions about Truth 176 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 10:05
Re: Questions about Truth 172 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 11:21
Re: Questions about Truth 164 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 15:40
Re: Questions about Truth 183 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 16:14
Re: Questions about Truth 172 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 17:06
Re: Questions about Truth 160 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 21:51
Re: Questions about Truth 176 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:50
Re: Questions about Truth 163 David L 24-Jan-04 15:55
Re: Questions about Truth 159 newrisingsun 24-Jan-04 17:32
Re: Questions about Truth 172 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:40
Re: Questions about Truth 189 David L 25-Jan-04 03:46
Re: Questions about Truth 166 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:45
Re: Questions about Truth 173 David L 25-Jan-04 20:49
Re: Questions about Truth 190 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:37
Re: Questions about Truth 168 David L 25-Jan-04 17:31
Re: Questions about Truth 157 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:55
Re: Questions about Truth 177 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 23:04
Re: Questions about Truth 154 David L 28-Jan-04 23:28
Re: Questions about Truth 159 adequatedane 29-Jan-04 23:01
Re: Questions about Truth 166 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 23:26
Re: Questions about Truth 178 David L 30-Jan-04 03:24
Re: Questions about Truth 184 wirelessguru1 30-Jan-04 03:48
Re: Questions about Truth 192 David L 30-Jan-04 22:32
Re: Questions about Truth 162 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 00:30
Re: Questions about Truth 160 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 21:01
Re: Questions about Truth 178 David L 30-Jan-04 22:24
Re: Questions about Truth 160 banah 31-Jan-04 09:13
Re: Questions about Truth 163 David L 31-Jan-04 14:20
Re: Questions about Truth 186 banah 31-Jan-04 20:20
Re: Questions about Truth 172 David L 01-Feb-04 01:59
Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 161 Richard Fusniak 01-Feb-04 14:28
Re: Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 216 banah 01-Feb-04 17:21
Re: Questions about Truth 162 Zurg 03-Feb-04 08:12
Re: Questions about Truth 155 banah 04-Feb-04 10:58
Re: Questions about Truth 189 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:17
Re: Questions about Truth 171 banah 31-Jan-04 09:20
Re: Questions about Truth 186 David L 30-Jan-04 03:26
We don't live in a "true or false" world... 166 David L 30-Jan-04 03:30
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 178 banah 31-Jan-04 09:27
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 168 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:53
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 159 David L 31-Jan-04 13:38
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 167 banah 31-Jan-04 20:47
Re: Questions about Truth 145 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:50
Re: Questions about Truth 204 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:48
Re: Questions about Truth 192 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:49
Re: Questions about Truth 177 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:00
Re: Questions about Truth 200 RichardC 26-Jan-04 23:32
Re: Questions about Truth 177 banah 25-Jan-04 17:56
Re: Questions about Truth 166 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:24
No such thing 177 Nejc 25-Jan-04 23:13
Re: No such thing 182 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:40
Re: No such thing 164 Alex S 27-Jan-04 14:13
Re: No such thing 165 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 19:01
Re: Questions about Truth 180 Mark Staab 25-Jan-04 23:35
Re: Questions about Truth 168 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 00:15
Re: Questions about Truth 171 Mark Staab 27-Jan-04 02:00
Re: Questions about Truth 168 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:40
Re: Questions about Truth 181 banah 30-Jan-04 19:40
Re: Questions about Truth 160 Mark Staab 30-Jan-04 22:22
Re: Questions about Truth 175 banah 31-Jan-04 11:05
Re: Questions about Truth 210 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 06:33
Re: Questions about Truth 206 banah 01-Feb-04 11:48
Re: Questions about Truth 170 adequatedane 01-Feb-04 16:06
Re: Questions about Truth 156 banah 01-Feb-04 17:25
Re: Questions about Truth 178 adequatedane 02-Feb-04 23:58
Re: Questions about Truth 178 banah 04-Feb-04 11:04
Re: Questions about Truth 172 adequatedane 05-Feb-04 22:26
Re: Questions about Truth 155 banah 07-Feb-04 13:19
Re: Questions about Truth 191 adequatedane 07-Feb-04 14:47
Re: ps 165 banah 01-Feb-04 17:29
Re: Questions about Truth 160 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 23:42
Re: Questions about Truth 157 banah 04-Feb-04 11:07
Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 181 David L 01-Feb-04 21:33
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 187 Mark Staab 02-Feb-04 02:09
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 218 David L 02-Feb-04 23:50
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 167 Mark Staab 03-Feb-04 05:57
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 199 David L 03-Feb-04 16:11
Regarding the Old Testament... 157 David L 03-Feb-04 16:19
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 171 banah 04-Feb-04 10:45
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 154 David L 04-Feb-04 13:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 176 Mark Staab 05-Feb-04 00:38
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 154 David L 05-Feb-04 01:07
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 183 banah 05-Feb-04 16:48
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 178 David L 05-Feb-04 19:51
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 168 wirelessguru1 06-Feb-04 00:50
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 194 David L 06-Feb-04 01:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 178 wirelessguru1 06-Feb-04 02:24
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 155 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:36
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 175 adequatedane 06-Feb-04 14:09
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 167 David L 06-Feb-04 18:37
Who speaks the truth... 186 wirelessguru1 07-Feb-04 01:37
Re: Who speaks the truth... 181 David L 07-Feb-04 06:12
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 177 banah 07-Feb-04 13:05
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 196 David L 07-Feb-04 15:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 175 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 159 wirelessguru1 07-Feb-04 02:28
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 177 Anne-Marie 07-Feb-04 08:19
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 153 banah 07-Feb-04 13:13
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 175 David L 07-Feb-04 16:17
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 170 Cesar 07-Feb-04 17:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 214 David L 07-Feb-04 17:48
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 168 Anne-Marie 07-Feb-04 19:59
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 181 David L 07-Feb-04 22:01
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 185 wirelessguru1 08-Feb-04 19:23
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 176 Anne-Marie 08-Feb-04 20:18
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 516 wirelessguru1 08-Feb-04 21:08
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 162 Cesar 08-Feb-04 18:31
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 160 David L 08-Feb-04 19:15
Re: Questions about Truth 180 Caduceus 27-Jan-04 01:32
Re: Questions about Truth 182 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:49
Re: Questions about Truth 169 Caduceus 29-Jan-04 04:12
Re: Questions about Truth 180 xiang 27-Jan-04 03:16
Re: Questions about Truth 165 Caduceus 27-Jan-04 10:53
Re: Questions about Truth 192 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 17:49
Re: Questions about Truth 161 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:13
Re: Questions about Truth 173 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 22:28
Re: Questions about Truth 160 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 23:16
Re: Questions about Truth 198 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:04
Re: Questions about Truth 182 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 21:32
Re: Questions about Truth 169 xiang 28-Jan-04 01:50
Re: Questions about Truth 179 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 21:55
Re: Questions about Truth 174 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 07:57
Re: Questions about Truth 165 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 23:24
Re: Questions about Truth 156 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:24
Re: Questions about Truth 163 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 22:22
Re: Questions about Truth 147 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 01:03
Re: Questions about Truth 150 adequatedane 29-Jan-04 23:35
Re: Questions about Truth 166 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 23:56
Re: Questions about Truth 186 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 02:19
Re: Questions about Truth 169 wirelessguru1 30-Jan-04 03:15
Re: Questions about Truth 155 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 21:32
Re: Questions about Truth 175 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 01:04
Re: Questions about Truth 185 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 09:23
Re: Questions about Truth 165 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 19:33
Re: Questions about Truth 183 Zurg 30-Jan-04 13:19
Re: Questions about Truth 164 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 22:07
Re: Questions about Truth 172 Dominick Ohrbeck 30-Jan-04 21:39
Re: Questions about Truth 163 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:47
Re: Questions about Truth 165 Cesar 08-Feb-04 11:51


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