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Hi David

>>He said he was one with the Father and would would make his followers one with the Father. That is tantamount to merging with God.

In context it goes like this :

John10:24 Then came the Jews around him, and said to him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou art the Christ, tell us plainly. 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness concerning me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said to you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give to them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, who gave them to me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shown you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

The context here is not that Jesus would at some later stage merge with the Father, but rather that He IS the Father ... Jesus and the Father are one and the same - Jesus is the Father made flesh

Here is another passage:

John1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. {comprehended: or, did not admit, or, receive}

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God was made flesh........ not the son merged into God, but the other way round ...... God begot a son.

John14:6 Jesus saith to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no man cometh to the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Here Jesus says plainly that since the disciples have seen Him, they have seen the Father ie Jesus is the Father......

John14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. {comfortless: or, orphans}
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

This Spirit dwells in flesh and blood men, not in "merged souls"...... the Holy Spirit is given to men while they are alive on earth, it is the Spirit of God that gives life, truth and direction.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved by my Father, and I will love him, and will reveal myself to him.
22 Judas, not Iscariot, saith to him, Lord, how is it that thou wilt reveal thyself to us, and not to the world?
23 Jesus answered and said to him, If a man loveth me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but that of the Father who sent me.
25 These things have I spoken to you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, who is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.

Here Jesus says that the Father and Son make their abode in men of faith ... not men of faith merge into the Father ... the Father and Son put their Spirit into man.

John15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken to you, that my joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full.

John17:6 I have manifested thy name to the men whom thou gavest to me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them to me; and they have kept thy word.

Jesus is God manifested in the flesh.

53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews to him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said to them, Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Jesus used the title I AM here to indicate that He is the same one who spoke to Moses from the burning bush. Jesus claimed the title YHWH (I am) which means "the existing one".

>>That statement was made by the writer of the Gospel of John, not by Jesus

>>All of these statement are true as far as they go. But Jesus was speaking only to his initiates, not the world.


So John the initiate didn't get it right then?

Mark16:14 Afterward he appeared to the eleven as they sat eating, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them who had seen him after he was risen. {at meat: or, together}
15 And he said to them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out demons; they shall speak in new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken to them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Jesus commands His "initiates" to tell the whole world about salvation through Him........ it is not for a select few initiates, but for "every creature"...

John10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known by mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so I know the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Jesus will bring all the "sheep" (those who believe in Him) into the fold....... not just the "initiates".......

>>And again:
Matthew 15:24
"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." >>

In context it reads:

Matthew 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same region, and cried to him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously afflicted with a demon.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not good to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.
28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it to thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
29 And Jesus departed from there, and came near to the sea of Galilee; and went up on a mountain, and sat down there.
30 And great multitudes came to him, having with them those that were lame, blind, dumb, maimed, and many others, and laid them down at Jesus’ feet; and he healed them:
31 So that the multitude wondered, when they saw the dumb to speak, the maimed to be whole, the lame to walk, and the blind to see: and they glorified the God of Israel.

This woman's faith is what counted - she certainly wasn't an "initiate".

Blessings
Banah

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Questions about Truth 617 adequatedane 24-Jan-04 10:24
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Re: Questions about Truth 155 gene douglas 24-Jan-04 14:57
Re: Questions about Truth 127 Alex S 25-Jan-04 01:13
Re: Questions about Truth 122 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 04:04
Re: Questions about Truth 131 Alex S 26-Jan-04 01:18
Re: Questions about Truth 144 gene douglas 26-Jan-04 02:14
Re: Questions about Truth 130 Alex S 27-Jan-04 01:57
Re: Questions about Truth 119 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 09:44
Re: Questions about Truth 108 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:34
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Re: Questions about Truth 128 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 10:05
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Re: Questions about Truth 122 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 15:40
Re: Questions about Truth 133 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 16:14
Re: Questions about Truth 128 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 17:06
Re: Questions about Truth 115 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 21:51
Re: Questions about Truth 126 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:50
Re: Questions about Truth 120 David L 24-Jan-04 15:55
Re: Questions about Truth 109 newrisingsun 24-Jan-04 17:32
Re: Questions about Truth 128 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:40
Re: Questions about Truth 148 David L 25-Jan-04 03:46
Re: Questions about Truth 119 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:45
Re: Questions about Truth 128 David L 25-Jan-04 20:49
Re: Questions about Truth 143 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:37
Re: Questions about Truth 123 David L 25-Jan-04 17:31
Re: Questions about Truth 115 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:55
Re: Questions about Truth 134 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 23:04
Re: Questions about Truth 114 David L 28-Jan-04 23:28
Re: Questions about Truth 116 adequatedane 29-Jan-04 23:01
Re: Questions about Truth 125 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 23:26
Re: Questions about Truth 131 David L 30-Jan-04 03:24
Re: Questions about Truth 142 wirelessguru1 30-Jan-04 03:48
Re: Questions about Truth 147 David L 30-Jan-04 22:32
Re: Questions about Truth 117 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 00:30
Re: Questions about Truth 113 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 21:01
Re: Questions about Truth 131 David L 30-Jan-04 22:24
Re: Questions about Truth 117 banah 31-Jan-04 09:13
Re: Questions about Truth 121 David L 31-Jan-04 14:20
Re: Questions about Truth 142 banah 31-Jan-04 20:20
Re: Questions about Truth 128 David L 01-Feb-04 01:59
Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 116 Richard Fusniak 01-Feb-04 14:28
Re: Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 157 banah 01-Feb-04 17:21
Re: Questions about Truth 116 Zurg 03-Feb-04 08:12
Re: Questions about Truth 115 banah 04-Feb-04 10:58
Re: Questions about Truth 144 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:17
Re: Questions about Truth 130 banah 31-Jan-04 09:20
Re: Questions about Truth 141 David L 30-Jan-04 03:26
We don't live in a "true or false" world... 118 David L 30-Jan-04 03:30
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 132 banah 31-Jan-04 09:27
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 121 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:53
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 116 David L 31-Jan-04 13:38
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 122 banah 31-Jan-04 20:47
Re: Questions about Truth 103 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:50
Re: Questions about Truth 141 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:48
Re: Questions about Truth 139 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:49
Re: Questions about Truth 131 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:00
Re: Questions about Truth 152 RichardC 26-Jan-04 23:32
Re: Questions about Truth 144 banah 25-Jan-04 17:56
Re: Questions about Truth 121 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:24
No such thing 136 Nejc 25-Jan-04 23:13
Re: No such thing 137 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:40
Re: No such thing 120 Alex S 27-Jan-04 14:13
Re: No such thing 119 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 19:01
Re: Questions about Truth 135 Mark Staab 25-Jan-04 23:35
Re: Questions about Truth 124 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 00:15
Re: Questions about Truth 122 Mark Staab 27-Jan-04 02:00
Re: Questions about Truth 120 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:40
Re: Questions about Truth 136 banah 30-Jan-04 19:40
Re: Questions about Truth 116 Mark Staab 30-Jan-04 22:22
Re: Questions about Truth 127 banah 31-Jan-04 11:05
Re: Questions about Truth 161 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 06:33
Re: Questions about Truth 153 banah 01-Feb-04 11:48
Re: Questions about Truth 125 adequatedane 01-Feb-04 16:06
Re: Questions about Truth 116 banah 01-Feb-04 17:25
Re: Questions about Truth 133 adequatedane 02-Feb-04 23:58
Re: Questions about Truth 137 banah 04-Feb-04 11:04
Re: Questions about Truth 126 adequatedane 05-Feb-04 22:26
Re: Questions about Truth 109 banah 07-Feb-04 13:19
Re: Questions about Truth 146 adequatedane 07-Feb-04 14:47
Re: ps 122 banah 01-Feb-04 17:29
Re: Questions about Truth 115 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 23:42
Re: Questions about Truth 114 banah 04-Feb-04 11:07
Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 142 David L 01-Feb-04 21:33
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 142 Mark Staab 02-Feb-04 02:09
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 163 David L 02-Feb-04 23:50
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 122 Mark Staab 03-Feb-04 05:57
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 160 David L 03-Feb-04 16:11
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Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 111 David L 04-Feb-04 13:49
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Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 108 David L 05-Feb-04 01:07
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 140 banah 05-Feb-04 16:48
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 129 David L 05-Feb-04 19:51
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Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 136 wirelessguru1 06-Feb-04 02:24
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 110 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:36
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 125 adequatedane 06-Feb-04 14:09
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 125 David L 06-Feb-04 18:37
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Re: Who speaks the truth... 131 David L 07-Feb-04 06:12
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 130 banah 07-Feb-04 13:05
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 150 David L 07-Feb-04 15:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 127 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 115 wirelessguru1 07-Feb-04 02:28
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 133 Anne-Marie 07-Feb-04 08:19
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 112 banah 07-Feb-04 13:13
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 128 David L 07-Feb-04 16:17
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 127 Cesar 07-Feb-04 17:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 170 David L 07-Feb-04 17:48
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Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 130 David L 07-Feb-04 22:01
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Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 122 Cesar 08-Feb-04 18:31
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 116 David L 08-Feb-04 19:15
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Re: Questions about Truth 139 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:49
Re: Questions about Truth 121 Caduceus 29-Jan-04 04:12
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Re: Questions about Truth 121 Caduceus 27-Jan-04 10:53
Re: Questions about Truth 130 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 17:49
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Re: Questions about Truth 154 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:04
Re: Questions about Truth 137 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 21:32
Re: Questions about Truth 136 xiang 28-Jan-04 01:50
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Re: Questions about Truth 133 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 07:57
Re: Questions about Truth 122 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 23:24
Re: Questions about Truth 112 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:24
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