Inner Space :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For discussions on all matters relating to personal development, religion, philosophy, psychology and so on. 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Hi Mark,

You asked the question:
>>How, in light of through whom the "fall" is purported to have come, was Eve
ever to be a help "meet" for Adam? She did seem to have a way with serpents

I think it's as simple as giving adam something other than himself to love..... in the focussing of ones love on another, we lose the "ego-trip" bit, without losing the self (I'm talking about absolute Love here lol, the kind that we pay lipservice to these days).

>>But such an approach to self knowledge, to me, seems interminable. To me it
seems a trap of the Ego. Ego is sly and crafty.

Yes, I agree 100%. The only way to get rid of "ego" is to forget about fixing oneself and just get on with living the best we can - if we focus our lives on getting rid of ego, we are in fact so totally absorbed in ourselves that we can't see further than our own ego! To even assume that we can fix ourselves is egotistical in the extreme.

In fact, one should define ego here, in order to discuss this constructively (people seem to have very different ideas these days as to the Real meaning of words). According to the Oxford dictionary:

ego : (Metaphysical)concious thinking subject;(Psych.) part of the mind that reacts to reality and has sense of individuality; self-esteem.

and interestingly -

ego-trip:

activity etc. devoted to one's own interests or feelings

Now I have no problem with ego as defined by the dictionary, but I do have a problem with the ego-trip! In fact I would in the metaphysical sense, like to improve my "ego" ie concious thinking part as oposed to my subconcious. And, psychologically, I believe this raising of conciousness will improve the way that I react to reality. The Psychology definition reminds me of the scene in the Matrix where Smith has multiplied into a whole host of Smith's whose motivation is to turn everone else into a Smith.... no individual's and that to me is horrific. The Smith's are threatened by anything that isn't Smith. I love the differences in people (even their ideas) - they inspire me and make me think deeper. In fact if everyone were identical, there would be no point in anything... would there?

As far as ego-trip goes, I think this is what we are actually referring to here when we say "ego" is bad and from the definition, it would seem that your statement:

>>But such an approach to self knowledge, to me, seems interminable. To me it
seems a trap of the Ego. Ego is sly and crafty. >>

is spot on. This focussing on the self is the absolute ego-trip.

What I find interesting is the Hebrew word that we have translated as "naked"

Genesis2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

The word is : arom aw-rome and is written the same way as aram aw-ram which means:

1) to be subtle, be shrewd, be crafty, beware, take crafty counsel, be prudent
1a) (Qal) to be crafty, be subtle
1b) (Hiphil) to be crafty, be or become shrewd

and is in fact used here as a past participle to describe the serpent:

Genesis3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.

So the subtlety of the serpent and the nakedness of man was the same thing!

The word serpent is also very badly transliterated. The word translated as serpent is nachash naw-khawsh’ and indeed does mean:

1) serpent, snake
1a) serpent
1b) image (of serpent)
1c) fleeing serpent (mythological)

But the word nachash is from an earlier root word nachash naw-khash’ which has a different meaning, but is written identically:

1) to practice divination, divine, observe signs, learn by experience, diligently observe, practice fortune telling, take as an omen
1a) (Piel)
1a1) to practice divination
1a2) to observe the signs or omens

The two words are identical even though they are translated differently. The latter being the older meaning of the word serpent and hence, I believe, the more correct interpretation since the story of the fall is the oldest in human history and would hence have used the earliest form of the word. When Adam said Nachash, he would had used the earliest meaning.

This ‘serpent’ is an intelligent being with “supernatural” powers and not a slithering reptile.

Another word of interest is ‘beguiled’:
nasha’ naw-shaw’
AV-deceive 12, greatly 1, beguiled me 1, seize 1, utterly 1; 16

You will notice immediately the similarity between the two words nachash (serpent) and nasha (beguiled).

Adam and Eve did possess the "knowledge" of self, but it wasn't an introspective knowledge:

genesis3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

God asks who told you that you were naked ... clearly they had eyes, they could see....The Nachash beguiled them. It was the temptation to become independant "gods" (as God) that perverted their knowledge. Instead of simply being, they were striving to become. This is the illusion - we already are everything we will ever be, but in thinking that we are not, we don't behave in the right way. Instead of walking with God in the cool, we hide from Him.

The trees in the garden are also very interesting, but that is is long study LOL so I'll leave it now...

Blessings
Banah

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Questions about Truth 650 adequatedane 24-Jan-04 10:24
Re: Questions about Truth 144 Segestan 24-Jan-04 14:00
Re: Questions about Truth 136 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:38
Re: Questions about Truth 171 gene douglas 24-Jan-04 14:57
Re: Questions about Truth 142 Alex S 25-Jan-04 01:13
Re: Questions about Truth 138 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 04:04
Re: Questions about Truth 147 Alex S 26-Jan-04 01:18
Re: Questions about Truth 158 gene douglas 26-Jan-04 02:14
Re: Questions about Truth 143 Alex S 27-Jan-04 01:57
Re: Questions about Truth 135 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 09:44
Re: Questions about Truth 125 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:34
Re: Questions about Truth 155 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:42
Re: Questions about Truth 144 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 10:05
Re: Questions about Truth 146 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 11:21
Re: Questions about Truth 139 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 15:40
Re: Questions about Truth 151 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 16:14
Re: Questions about Truth 144 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 17:06
Re: Questions about Truth 133 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 21:51
Re: Questions about Truth 143 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:50
Re: Questions about Truth 135 David L 24-Jan-04 15:55
Re: Questions about Truth 125 newrisingsun 24-Jan-04 17:32
Re: Questions about Truth 142 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:40
Re: Questions about Truth 164 David L 25-Jan-04 03:46
Re: Questions about Truth 135 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:45
Re: Questions about Truth 143 David L 25-Jan-04 20:49
Re: Questions about Truth 159 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:37
Re: Questions about Truth 139 David L 25-Jan-04 17:31
Re: Questions about Truth 130 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:55
Re: Questions about Truth 151 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 23:04
Re: Questions about Truth 128 David L 28-Jan-04 23:28
Re: Questions about Truth 134 adequatedane 29-Jan-04 23:01
Re: Questions about Truth 141 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 23:26
Re: Questions about Truth 146 David L 30-Jan-04 03:24
Re: Questions about Truth 155 wirelessguru1 30-Jan-04 03:48
Re: Questions about Truth 163 David L 30-Jan-04 22:32
Re: Questions about Truth 134 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 00:30
Re: Questions about Truth 130 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 21:01
Re: Questions about Truth 147 David L 30-Jan-04 22:24
Re: Questions about Truth 131 banah 31-Jan-04 09:13
Re: Questions about Truth 137 David L 31-Jan-04 14:20
Re: Questions about Truth 158 banah 31-Jan-04 20:20
Re: Questions about Truth 145 David L 01-Feb-04 01:59
Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 132 Richard Fusniak 01-Feb-04 14:28
Re: Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 180 banah 01-Feb-04 17:21
Re: Questions about Truth 131 Zurg 03-Feb-04 08:12
Re: Questions about Truth 130 banah 04-Feb-04 10:58
Re: Questions about Truth 160 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:17
Re: Questions about Truth 144 banah 31-Jan-04 09:20
Re: Questions about Truth 157 David L 30-Jan-04 03:26
We don't live in a "true or false" world... 134 David L 30-Jan-04 03:30
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 150 banah 31-Jan-04 09:27
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 136 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:53
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 130 David L 31-Jan-04 13:38
Re: We don't live in a "true or false" world... 136 banah 31-Jan-04 20:47
Re: Questions about Truth 120 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:50
Re: Questions about Truth 161 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:48
Re: Questions about Truth 153 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:49
Re: Questions about Truth 146 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:00
Re: Questions about Truth 169 RichardC 26-Jan-04 23:32
Re: Questions about Truth 150 banah 25-Jan-04 17:56
Re: Questions about Truth 138 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:24
No such thing 150 Nejc 25-Jan-04 23:13
Re: No such thing 153 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:40
Re: No such thing 136 Alex S 27-Jan-04 14:13
Re: No such thing 136 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 19:01
Re: Questions about Truth 153 Mark Staab 25-Jan-04 23:35
Re: Questions about Truth 141 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 00:15
Re: Questions about Truth 140 Mark Staab 27-Jan-04 02:00
Re: Questions about Truth 138 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:40
Re: Questions about Truth 150 banah 30-Jan-04 19:40
Re: Questions about Truth 132 Mark Staab 30-Jan-04 22:22
Re: Questions about Truth 144 banah 31-Jan-04 11:05
Re: Questions about Truth 180 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 06:33
Re: Questions about Truth 170 banah 01-Feb-04 11:48
Re: Questions about Truth 141 adequatedane 01-Feb-04 16:06
Re: Questions about Truth 129 banah 01-Feb-04 17:25
Re: Questions about Truth 150 adequatedane 02-Feb-04 23:58
Re: Questions about Truth 152 banah 04-Feb-04 11:04
Re: Questions about Truth 141 adequatedane 05-Feb-04 22:26
Re: Questions about Truth 124 banah 07-Feb-04 13:19
Re: Questions about Truth 162 adequatedane 07-Feb-04 14:47
Re: ps 137 banah 01-Feb-04 17:29
Re: Questions about Truth 131 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 23:42
Re: Questions about Truth 130 banah 04-Feb-04 11:07
Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 156 David L 01-Feb-04 21:33
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 156 Mark Staab 02-Feb-04 02:09
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 180 David L 02-Feb-04 23:50
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 139 Mark Staab 03-Feb-04 05:57
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 173 David L 03-Feb-04 16:11
Regarding the Old Testament... 132 David L 03-Feb-04 16:19
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 144 banah 04-Feb-04 10:45
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 127 David L 04-Feb-04 13:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 144 Mark Staab 05-Feb-04 00:38
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 122 David L 05-Feb-04 01:07
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 153 banah 05-Feb-04 16:48
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 145 David L 05-Feb-04 19:51
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 143 wirelessguru1 06-Feb-04 00:50
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 163 David L 06-Feb-04 01:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 152 wirelessguru1 06-Feb-04 02:24
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 125 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:36
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 142 adequatedane 06-Feb-04 14:09
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 138 David L 06-Feb-04 18:37
Who speaks the truth... 152 wirelessguru1 07-Feb-04 01:37
Re: Who speaks the truth... 148 David L 07-Feb-04 06:12
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 146 banah 07-Feb-04 13:05
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 168 David L 07-Feb-04 15:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 141 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 131 wirelessguru1 07-Feb-04 02:28
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 150 Anne-Marie 07-Feb-04 08:19
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 126 banah 07-Feb-04 13:13
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 143 David L 07-Feb-04 16:17
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 143 Cesar 07-Feb-04 17:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 185 David L 07-Feb-04 17:48
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 140 Anne-Marie 07-Feb-04 19:59
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 149 David L 07-Feb-04 22:01
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 156 wirelessguru1 08-Feb-04 19:23
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 146 Anne-Marie 08-Feb-04 20:18
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 464 wirelessguru1 08-Feb-04 21:08
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 136 Cesar 08-Feb-04 18:31
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 132 David L 08-Feb-04 19:15
Re: Questions about Truth 152 Caduceus 27-Jan-04 01:32
Re: Questions about Truth 153 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:49
Re: Questions about Truth 137 Caduceus 29-Jan-04 04:12
Re: Questions about Truth 154 xiang 27-Jan-04 03:16
Re: Questions about Truth 136 Caduceus 27-Jan-04 10:53
Re: Questions about Truth 149 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 17:49
Re: Questions about Truth 132 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:13
Re: Questions about Truth 142 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 22:28
Re: Questions about Truth 136 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 23:16
Re: Questions about Truth 167 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:04
Re: Questions about Truth 153 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 21:32
Re: Questions about Truth 141 xiang 28-Jan-04 01:50
Re: Questions about Truth 153 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 21:55
Re: Questions about Truth 149 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 07:57
Re: Questions about Truth 139 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 23:24
Re: Questions about Truth 128 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:24
Re: Questions about Truth 134 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 22:22
Re: Questions about Truth 123 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 01:03
Re: Questions about Truth 124 adequatedane 29-Jan-04 23:35
Re: Questions about Truth 138 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 23:56
Re: Questions about Truth 158 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 02:19
Re: Questions about Truth 141 wirelessguru1 30-Jan-04 03:15
Re: Questions about Truth 131 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 21:32
Re: Questions about Truth 151 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 01:04
Re: Questions about Truth 155 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 09:23
Re: Questions about Truth 136 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 19:33
Re: Questions about Truth 148 Zurg 30-Jan-04 13:19
Re: Questions about Truth 138 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 22:07
Re: Questions about Truth 145 Dominick Ohrbeck 30-Jan-04 21:39
Re: Questions about Truth 133 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:47
Re: Questions about Truth 134 Cesar 08-Feb-04 11:51


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.