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Hey Dane, all,

I like Banah's response:

>>In order for the word truth to have any meaning, we have to assume that somewhere there is an absolute Truth - otherwise, whatever we call truth, is merely personal opinion or relative observation dressed up in a noble sounding word!<<

[www.grahamhancock.com]

The absolute, capital "T" truth, in my view, is most likely part and parcel with God and therefore inaccessible in our present incarnate form. What's left is the truth of what we can know, personally and intimately, about ourselves. Once that's been achieved, it makes sense that we will then know something fundamental, a transcendental truth, something important relative to humanity as well. And then I'm pretty sure You can get to God from there -- actually, this is something I BELIEVE with all my heart, mind and soul; but in deference to Gene's sensibilities I'll leave it at that).

There IS the small matter, however, according to one tradition, of the "cherubims" and "flaming sword" that "keep the way of the tree of life" (Gen 3:24).

This suggests (and is confirmed by me from personal experience), that this truth -- the only thing I can really KNOW about -- me, myself -- this truth is not easily nailed down. It twists and turns; it hides, it writhes, and it bites. David and Gene's analogy of the "Ego" fits well enough -- and, yes, an effort to know oneself does indeed, at times, seem to be like peeling an onion or, for that matter, a snake sloughing off its old skin.

But such an approach to self knowledge, to me, seems interminable. To me it seems a trap of the Ego. Ego is sly and crafty. Though it knows subservience and it knows somnolent, glassy-eyed slumber; it knows no master. It waits for openings -- it waits for the perfect moment. Combating the Ego is like being sealed in a small, inky black cell with a venomous reptile. Just you and the snake in the dark.

Lol - Okay, aspiring adept, or mystic, or shaman or priestess, what do you do with a venomous snake in a small, closed room in the dark? Chant at it? Make a pass?

I loved to terrorize my sisters growing up. One time in particular I found a snake, half-frozen in the snow and also had the extraordinary good fortune to have all three of them (my sisters) near at hand at the time. "Look!" I cried, picking it up by the tail. They barely glanced and were off, screaming, with the snake and I on their heels. The apartment complex we lived in had a dozen doors and half as many hallways and flights of stair. We were up and down and through them all at least twice until they made an error in judgement and tried to hide in a storage closet in the basement. Their labored breathing gave them away, so I tugged on the closet door handle and it yielded and inch or two before three pairs of hands tugged it forcefully back. I tugged at it again and the door yielded again, and they forcefully tugged it back again, making frantic sounds . . .

Now, let it be known that I have sinned greatly in my day. I am a worm. This is not in dispute. I am a craven worm, and my sisters -- and wife, for that matter -- never cease to delight in reminding me of that fact. Perfect strangers, even, seem compelled to remind me not to forget that the devil was man's invention, and that "there is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death."

[www.grahamhancock.com]

[God bless you, Kimberly. If I were given to phylactery, I'd have that one tatooed to my forehead]

Anyhow, back in the basement of our apartment complex, what seemed right, what seemed a fitting finale to the drama over the closet door between my sisters and I was to tug once real hard and toss the snake into the intervening gap . . .

Now, I only held the door for a few seconds -- they, however, will tell you it was ages longer -- I argue that this is purely a subjectivity -- their "being in the moment," as it were -- what's more, no one could have held that door more than four or five seconds max. It is as it was. The point of my little parable, however, is that there was nothing left of the snake. Roadkill has more surface features than that snake had. Caught as my sisters were, in a dark cell with a snake, they didn't try to catch it, negotiate with it, live with it. They stomped the crap out of it. In the maximum of five seconds that I leaned against`the door, they'd reduced that snake to a smear on the linoleum. Really, I'm convinced that's the only way to deal with Ego (Gene, hindsight's twenty-twenty, but perhaps that's something your mom and aunts didn't understand in their generation).

In Genesis, Chapter Two, God brings all the animals to Adam "to see what he would call them." Without much effort, one can see that this was a test of sorts. God wanted to get an idea how Adam saw himself in relation to the rest of the creation. According to the text of this tradion, we're not told what God determined about Adam in this test. All we are told is that God concluded that none of them was "an help meet for him." Adam clearly needed help; yet none of the animals God brought to him would do. So then, were told, God causes a Adam to fall into a deep sleep, removes one of his ribs, forms Eve, then wakes Adam to see if she can help. From the context, it would appear Eve is exactly what Adam was missing in order for him to form an understanding of his true relation to the rest of creation.

This, in my view, is one of the earliest, objective truths -- how might this relate to Gene's anti-belief stance, or David's anti-Ego stance? How might a woman help her husband, her son, her brother to achieve victory over Ego? How, in light of through whom the "fall" is purported to have come, was Eve ever to be a help "meet" for Adam? She did seem to have a way with serpents . . .

Thoughts?

Mark

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Questions about Truth 703 adequatedane 24-Jan-04 10:24
Re: Questions about Truth 166 Segestan 24-Jan-04 14:00
Re: Questions about Truth 159 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:38
Re: Questions about Truth 198 gene douglas 24-Jan-04 14:57
Re: Questions about Truth 165 Alex S 25-Jan-04 01:13
Re: Questions about Truth 165 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 04:04
Re: Questions about Truth 174 Alex S 26-Jan-04 01:18
Re: Questions about Truth 184 gene douglas 26-Jan-04 02:14
Re: Questions about Truth 168 Alex S 27-Jan-04 01:57
Re: Questions about Truth 162 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 09:44
Re: Questions about Truth 153 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:34
Re: Questions about Truth 182 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:42
Re: Questions about Truth 170 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 10:05
Re: Questions about Truth 168 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 11:21
Re: Questions about Truth 160 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 15:40
Re: Questions about Truth 177 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 16:14
Re: Questions about Truth 168 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 17:06
Re: Questions about Truth 156 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 21:51
Re: Questions about Truth 170 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:50
Re: Questions about Truth 158 David L 24-Jan-04 15:55
Re: Questions about Truth 155 newrisingsun 24-Jan-04 17:32
Re: Questions about Truth 168 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:40
Re: Questions about Truth 185 David L 25-Jan-04 03:46
Re: Questions about Truth 161 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:45
Re: Questions about Truth 167 David L 25-Jan-04 20:49
Re: Questions about Truth 186 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:37
Re: Questions about Truth 164 David L 25-Jan-04 17:31
Re: Questions about Truth 154 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:55
Re: Questions about Truth 173 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 23:04
Re: Questions about Truth 150 David L 28-Jan-04 23:28
Re: Questions about Truth 156 adequatedane 29-Jan-04 23:01
Re: Questions about Truth 162 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 23:26
Re: Questions about Truth 172 David L 30-Jan-04 03:24
Re: Questions about Truth 181 wirelessguru1 30-Jan-04 03:48
Re: Questions about Truth 188 David L 30-Jan-04 22:32
Re: Questions about Truth 157 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 00:30
Re: Questions about Truth 155 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 21:01
Re: Questions about Truth 174 David L 30-Jan-04 22:24
Re: Questions about Truth 155 banah 31-Jan-04 09:13
Re: Questions about Truth 159 David L 31-Jan-04 14:20
Re: Questions about Truth 182 banah 31-Jan-04 20:20
Re: Questions about Truth 168 David L 01-Feb-04 01:59
Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 155 Richard Fusniak 01-Feb-04 14:28
Re: Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 212 banah 01-Feb-04 17:21
Re: Questions about Truth 156 Zurg 03-Feb-04 08:12
Re: Questions about Truth 151 banah 04-Feb-04 10:58
Re: Questions about Truth 184 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:17
Re: Questions about Truth 166 banah 31-Jan-04 09:20
Re: Questions about Truth 180 David L 30-Jan-04 03:26
We don't live in a &quot;true or false&quot; world... 161 David L 30-Jan-04 03:30
Re: We don't live in a &quot;true or false&quot; world... 174 banah 31-Jan-04 09:27
Re: We don't live in a &quot;true or false&quot; world... 164 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:53
Re: We don't live in a &quot;true or false&quot; world... 155 David L 31-Jan-04 13:38
Re: We don't live in a &quot;true or false&quot; world... 163 banah 31-Jan-04 20:47
Re: Questions about Truth 140 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:50
Re: Questions about Truth 196 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:48
Re: Questions about Truth 187 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:49
Re: Questions about Truth 172 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:00
Re: Questions about Truth 196 RichardC 26-Jan-04 23:32
Re: Questions about Truth 172 banah 25-Jan-04 17:56
Re: Questions about Truth 161 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:24
No such thing 172 Nejc 25-Jan-04 23:13
Re: No such thing 177 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:40
Re: No such thing 158 Alex S 27-Jan-04 14:13
Re: No such thing 160 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 19:01
Re: Questions about Truth 176 Mark Staab 25-Jan-04 23:35
Re: Questions about Truth 163 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 00:15
Re: Questions about Truth 167 Mark Staab 27-Jan-04 02:00
Re: Questions about Truth 163 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:40
Re: Questions about Truth 177 banah 30-Jan-04 19:40
Re: Questions about Truth 157 Mark Staab 30-Jan-04 22:22
Re: Questions about Truth 171 banah 31-Jan-04 11:05
Re: Questions about Truth 206 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 06:33
Re: Questions about Truth 201 banah 01-Feb-04 11:48
Re: Questions about Truth 165 adequatedane 01-Feb-04 16:06
Re: Questions about Truth 151 banah 01-Feb-04 17:25
Re: Questions about Truth 172 adequatedane 02-Feb-04 23:58
Re: Questions about Truth 173 banah 04-Feb-04 11:04
Re: Questions about Truth 167 adequatedane 05-Feb-04 22:26
Re: Questions about Truth 151 banah 07-Feb-04 13:19
Re: Questions about Truth 186 adequatedane 07-Feb-04 14:47
Re: ps 160 banah 01-Feb-04 17:29
Re: Questions about Truth 156 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 23:42
Re: Questions about Truth 150 banah 04-Feb-04 11:07
Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 177 David L 01-Feb-04 21:33
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 181 Mark Staab 02-Feb-04 02:09
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 214 David L 02-Feb-04 23:50
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 162 Mark Staab 03-Feb-04 05:57
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 193 David L 03-Feb-04 16:11
Regarding the Old Testament... 153 David L 03-Feb-04 16:19
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 167 banah 04-Feb-04 10:45
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 149 David L 04-Feb-04 13:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 169 Mark Staab 05-Feb-04 00:38
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 149 David L 05-Feb-04 01:07
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 178 banah 05-Feb-04 16:48
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 173 David L 05-Feb-04 19:51
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 165 wirelessguru1 06-Feb-04 00:50
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 190 David L 06-Feb-04 01:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 173 wirelessguru1 06-Feb-04 02:24
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 152 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:36
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 170 adequatedane 06-Feb-04 14:09
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 164 David L 06-Feb-04 18:37
Who speaks the truth... 181 wirelessguru1 07-Feb-04 01:37
Re: Who speaks the truth... 177 David L 07-Feb-04 06:12
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 171 banah 07-Feb-04 13:05
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 192 David L 07-Feb-04 15:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 171 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 154 wirelessguru1 07-Feb-04 02:28
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 172 Anne-Marie 07-Feb-04 08:19
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 149 banah 07-Feb-04 13:13
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 171 David L 07-Feb-04 16:17
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 166 Cesar 07-Feb-04 17:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 209 David L 07-Feb-04 17:48
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 164 Anne-Marie 07-Feb-04 19:59
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 177 David L 07-Feb-04 22:01
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 178 wirelessguru1 08-Feb-04 19:23
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 172 Anne-Marie 08-Feb-04 20:18
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 505 wirelessguru1 08-Feb-04 21:08
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 157 Cesar 08-Feb-04 18:31
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 155 David L 08-Feb-04 19:15
Re: Questions about Truth 177 Caduceus 27-Jan-04 01:32
Re: Questions about Truth 178 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:49
Re: Questions about Truth 166 Caduceus 29-Jan-04 04:12
Re: Questions about Truth 175 xiang 27-Jan-04 03:16
Re: Questions about Truth 160 Caduceus 27-Jan-04 10:53
Re: Questions about Truth 186 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 17:49
Re: Questions about Truth 157 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:13
Re: Questions about Truth 169 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 22:28
Re: Questions about Truth 157 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 23:16
Re: Questions about Truth 193 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:04
Re: Questions about Truth 178 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 21:32
Re: Questions about Truth 165 xiang 28-Jan-04 01:50
Re: Questions about Truth 175 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 21:55
Re: Questions about Truth 170 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 07:57
Re: Questions about Truth 161 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 23:24
Re: Questions about Truth 151 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:24
Re: Questions about Truth 157 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 22:22
Re: Questions about Truth 143 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 01:03
Re: Questions about Truth 144 adequatedane 29-Jan-04 23:35
Re: Questions about Truth 161 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 23:56
Re: Questions about Truth 182 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 02:19
Re: Questions about Truth 164 wirelessguru1 30-Jan-04 03:15
Re: Questions about Truth 151 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 21:32
Re: Questions about Truth 170 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 01:04
Re: Questions about Truth 181 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 09:23
Re: Questions about Truth 160 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 19:33
Re: Questions about Truth 177 Zurg 30-Jan-04 13:19
Re: Questions about Truth 160 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 22:07
Re: Questions about Truth 169 Dominick Ohrbeck 30-Jan-04 21:39
Re: Questions about Truth 158 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:47
Re: Questions about Truth 160 Cesar 08-Feb-04 11:51


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