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Hey Dane, all,

I like Banah's response:

>>In order for the word truth to have any meaning, we have to assume that somewhere there is an absolute Truth - otherwise, whatever we call truth, is merely personal opinion or relative observation dressed up in a noble sounding word!<<

[www.grahamhancock.com]

The absolute, capital "T" truth, in my view, is most likely part and parcel with God and therefore inaccessible in our present incarnate form. What's left is the truth of what we can know, personally and intimately, about ourselves. Once that's been achieved, it makes sense that we will then know something fundamental, a transcendental truth, something important relative to humanity as well. And then I'm pretty sure You can get to God from there -- actually, this is something I BELIEVE with all my heart, mind and soul; but in deference to Gene's sensibilities I'll leave it at that).

There IS the small matter, however, according to one tradition, of the "cherubims" and "flaming sword" that "keep the way of the tree of life" (Gen 3:24).

This suggests (and is confirmed by me from personal experience), that this truth -- the only thing I can really KNOW about -- me, myself -- this truth is not easily nailed down. It twists and turns; it hides, it writhes, and it bites. David and Gene's analogy of the "Ego" fits well enough -- and, yes, an effort to know oneself does indeed, at times, seem to be like peeling an onion or, for that matter, a snake sloughing off its old skin.

But such an approach to self knowledge, to me, seems interminable. To me it seems a trap of the Ego. Ego is sly and crafty. Though it knows subservience and it knows somnolent, glassy-eyed slumber; it knows no master. It waits for openings -- it waits for the perfect moment. Combating the Ego is like being sealed in a small, inky black cell with a venomous reptile. Just you and the snake in the dark.

Lol - Okay, aspiring adept, or mystic, or shaman or priestess, what do you do with a venomous snake in a small, closed room in the dark? Chant at it? Make a pass?

I loved to terrorize my sisters growing up. One time in particular I found a snake, half-frozen in the snow and also had the extraordinary good fortune to have all three of them (my sisters) near at hand at the time. "Look!" I cried, picking it up by the tail. They barely glanced and were off, screaming, with the snake and I on their heels. The apartment complex we lived in had a dozen doors and half as many hallways and flights of stair. We were up and down and through them all at least twice until they made an error in judgement and tried to hide in a storage closet in the basement. Their labored breathing gave them away, so I tugged on the closet door handle and it yielded and inch or two before three pairs of hands tugged it forcefully back. I tugged at it again and the door yielded again, and they forcefully tugged it back again, making frantic sounds . . .

Now, let it be known that I have sinned greatly in my day. I am a worm. This is not in dispute. I am a craven worm, and my sisters -- and wife, for that matter -- never cease to delight in reminding me of that fact. Perfect strangers, even, seem compelled to remind me not to forget that the devil was man's invention, and that "there is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death."

[www.grahamhancock.com]

[God bless you, Kimberly. If I were given to phylactery, I'd have that one tatooed to my forehead]

Anyhow, back in the basement of our apartment complex, what seemed right, what seemed a fitting finale to the drama over the closet door between my sisters and I was to tug once real hard and toss the snake into the intervening gap . . .

Now, I only held the door for a few seconds -- they, however, will tell you it was ages longer -- I argue that this is purely a subjectivity -- their "being in the moment," as it were -- what's more, no one could have held that door more than four or five seconds max. It is as it was. The point of my little parable, however, is that there was nothing left of the snake. Roadkill has more surface features than that snake had. Caught as my sisters were, in a dark cell with a snake, they didn't try to catch it, negotiate with it, live with it. They stomped the crap out of it. In the maximum of five seconds that I leaned against`the door, they'd reduced that snake to a smear on the linoleum. Really, I'm convinced that's the only way to deal with Ego (Gene, hindsight's twenty-twenty, but perhaps that's something your mom and aunts didn't understand in their generation).

In Genesis, Chapter Two, God brings all the animals to Adam "to see what he would call them." Without much effort, one can see that this was a test of sorts. God wanted to get an idea how Adam saw himself in relation to the rest of the creation. According to the text of this tradion, we're not told what God determined about Adam in this test. All we are told is that God concluded that none of them was "an help meet for him." Adam clearly needed help; yet none of the animals God brought to him would do. So then, were told, God causes a Adam to fall into a deep sleep, removes one of his ribs, forms Eve, then wakes Adam to see if she can help. From the context, it would appear Eve is exactly what Adam was missing in order for him to form an understanding of his true relation to the rest of creation.

This, in my view, is one of the earliest, objective truths -- how might this relate to Gene's anti-belief stance, or David's anti-Ego stance? How might a woman help her husband, her son, her brother to achieve victory over Ego? How, in light of through whom the "fall" is purported to have come, was Eve ever to be a help "meet" for Adam? She did seem to have a way with serpents . . .

Thoughts?

Mark

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Questions about Truth 594 adequatedane 24-Jan-04 10:24
Re: Questions about Truth 121 Segestan 24-Jan-04 14:00
Re: Questions about Truth 113 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:38
Re: Questions about Truth 147 gene douglas 24-Jan-04 14:57
Re: Questions about Truth 120 Alex S 25-Jan-04 01:13
Re: Questions about Truth 113 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 04:04
Re: Questions about Truth 123 Alex S 26-Jan-04 01:18
Re: Questions about Truth 135 gene douglas 26-Jan-04 02:14
Re: Questions about Truth 121 Alex S 27-Jan-04 01:57
Re: Questions about Truth 111 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 09:44
Re: Questions about Truth 101 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:34
Re: Questions about Truth 127 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:42
Re: Questions about Truth 119 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 10:05
Re: Questions about Truth 121 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 11:21
Re: Questions about Truth 115 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 15:40
Re: Questions about Truth 126 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 16:14
Re: Questions about Truth 119 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 17:06
Re: Questions about Truth 107 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 21:51
Re: Questions about Truth 117 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:50
Re: Questions about Truth 108 David L 24-Jan-04 15:55
Re: Questions about Truth 100 newrisingsun 24-Jan-04 17:32
Re: Questions about Truth 120 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:40
Re: Questions about Truth 140 David L 25-Jan-04 03:46
Re: Questions about Truth 110 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:45
Re: Questions about Truth 121 David L 25-Jan-04 20:49
Re: Questions about Truth 136 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:37
Re: Questions about Truth 115 David L 25-Jan-04 17:31
Re: Questions about Truth 107 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:55
Re: Questions about Truth 127 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 23:04
Re: Questions about Truth 108 David L 28-Jan-04 23:28
Re: Questions about Truth 110 adequatedane 29-Jan-04 23:01
Re: Questions about Truth 118 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 23:26
Re: Questions about Truth 123 David L 30-Jan-04 03:24
Re: Questions about Truth 132 wirelessguru1 30-Jan-04 03:48
Re: Questions about Truth 139 David L 30-Jan-04 22:32
Re: Questions about Truth 108 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 00:30
Re: Questions about Truth 105 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 21:01
Re: Questions about Truth 124 David L 30-Jan-04 22:24
Re: Questions about Truth 108 banah 31-Jan-04 09:13
Re: Questions about Truth 113 David L 31-Jan-04 14:20
Re: Questions about Truth 135 banah 31-Jan-04 20:20
Re: Questions about Truth 121 David L 01-Feb-04 01:59
Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 108 Richard Fusniak 01-Feb-04 14:28
Re: Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 147 banah 01-Feb-04 17:21
Re: Questions about Truth 108 Zurg 03-Feb-04 08:12
Re: Questions about Truth 108 banah 04-Feb-04 10:58
Re: Questions about Truth 136 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:17
Re: Questions about Truth 122 banah 31-Jan-04 09:20
Re: Questions about Truth 129 David L 30-Jan-04 03:26
We don't live in a &quot;true or false&quot; world... 108 David L 30-Jan-04 03:30
Re: We don't live in a &quot;true or false&quot; world... 124 banah 31-Jan-04 09:27
Re: We don't live in a &quot;true or false&quot; world... 113 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:53
Re: We don't live in a &quot;true or false&quot; world... 109 David L 31-Jan-04 13:38
Re: We don't live in a &quot;true or false&quot; world... 115 banah 31-Jan-04 20:47
Re: Questions about Truth 96 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:50
Re: Questions about Truth 134 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:48
Re: Questions about Truth 132 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:49
Re: Questions about Truth 123 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:00
Re: Questions about Truth 139 RichardC 26-Jan-04 23:32
Re: Questions about Truth 137 banah 25-Jan-04 17:56
Re: Questions about Truth 112 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:24
No such thing 128 Nejc 25-Jan-04 23:13
Re: No such thing 129 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:40
Re: No such thing 111 Alex S 27-Jan-04 14:13
Re: No such thing 111 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 19:01
Re: Questions about Truth 125 Mark Staab 25-Jan-04 23:35
Re: Questions about Truth 117 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 00:15
Re: Questions about Truth 115 Mark Staab 27-Jan-04 02:00
Re: Questions about Truth 112 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:40
Re: Questions about Truth 128 banah 30-Jan-04 19:40
Re: Questions about Truth 107 Mark Staab 30-Jan-04 22:22
Re: Questions about Truth 118 banah 31-Jan-04 11:05
Re: Questions about Truth 153 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 06:33
Re: Questions about Truth 146 banah 01-Feb-04 11:48
Re: Questions about Truth 117 adequatedane 01-Feb-04 16:06
Re: Questions about Truth 107 banah 01-Feb-04 17:25
Re: Questions about Truth 125 adequatedane 02-Feb-04 23:58
Re: Questions about Truth 130 banah 04-Feb-04 11:04
Re: Questions about Truth 118 adequatedane 05-Feb-04 22:26
Re: Questions about Truth 101 banah 07-Feb-04 13:19
Re: Questions about Truth 138 adequatedane 07-Feb-04 14:47
Re: ps 114 banah 01-Feb-04 17:29
Re: Questions about Truth 107 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 23:42
Re: Questions about Truth 107 banah 04-Feb-04 11:07
Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 136 David L 01-Feb-04 21:33
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 132 Mark Staab 02-Feb-04 02:09
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 149 David L 02-Feb-04 23:50
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 114 Mark Staab 03-Feb-04 05:57
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 152 David L 03-Feb-04 16:11
Regarding the Old Testament... 107 David L 03-Feb-04 16:19
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 122 banah 04-Feb-04 10:45
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 104 David L 04-Feb-04 13:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 119 Mark Staab 05-Feb-04 00:38
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 100 David L 05-Feb-04 01:07
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 132 banah 05-Feb-04 16:48
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 120 David L 05-Feb-04 19:51
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 119 wirelessguru1 06-Feb-04 00:50
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 138 David L 06-Feb-04 01:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 128 wirelessguru1 06-Feb-04 02:24
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 102 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:36
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 116 adequatedane 06-Feb-04 14:09
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 117 David L 06-Feb-04 18:37
Who speaks the truth... 129 wirelessguru1 07-Feb-04 01:37
Re: Who speaks the truth... 122 David L 07-Feb-04 06:12
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 120 banah 07-Feb-04 13:05
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 142 David L 07-Feb-04 15:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 120 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 108 wirelessguru1 07-Feb-04 02:28
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 125 Anne-Marie 07-Feb-04 08:19
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 104 banah 07-Feb-04 13:13
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 120 David L 07-Feb-04 16:17
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 119 Cesar 07-Feb-04 17:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 162 David L 07-Feb-04 17:48
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 116 Anne-Marie 07-Feb-04 19:59
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 118 David L 07-Feb-04 22:01
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 123 wirelessguru1 08-Feb-04 19:23
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 122 Anne-Marie 08-Feb-04 20:18
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 432 wirelessguru1 08-Feb-04 21:08
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 114 Cesar 08-Feb-04 18:31
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 107 David L 08-Feb-04 19:15
Re: Questions about Truth 125 Caduceus 27-Jan-04 01:32
Re: Questions about Truth 131 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:49
Re: Questions about Truth 111 Caduceus 29-Jan-04 04:12
Re: Questions about Truth 125 xiang 27-Jan-04 03:16
Re: Questions about Truth 113 Caduceus 27-Jan-04 10:53
Re: Questions about Truth 121 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 17:49
Re: Questions about Truth 108 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:13
Re: Questions about Truth 119 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 22:28
Re: Questions about Truth 113 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 23:16
Re: Questions about Truth 137 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:04
Re: Questions about Truth 129 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 21:32
Re: Questions about Truth 128 xiang 28-Jan-04 01:50
Re: Questions about Truth 129 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 21:55
Re: Questions about Truth 126 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 07:57
Re: Questions about Truth 116 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 23:24
Re: Questions about Truth 106 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:24
Re: Questions about Truth 112 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 22:22
Re: Questions about Truth 102 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 01:03
Re: Questions about Truth 101 adequatedane 29-Jan-04 23:35
Re: Questions about Truth 116 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 23:56
Re: Questions about Truth 139 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 02:19
Re: Questions about Truth 119 wirelessguru1 30-Jan-04 03:15
Re: Questions about Truth 112 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 21:32
Re: Questions about Truth 128 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 01:04
Re: Questions about Truth 134 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 09:23
Re: Questions about Truth 115 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 19:33
Re: Questions about Truth 127 Zurg 30-Jan-04 13:19
Re: Questions about Truth 117 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 22:07
Re: Questions about Truth 123 Dominick Ohrbeck 30-Jan-04 21:39
Re: Questions about Truth 114 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:47
Re: Questions about Truth 114 Cesar 08-Feb-04 11:51


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