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Hey Dane, all,

I like Banah's response:

>>In order for the word truth to have any meaning, we have to assume that somewhere there is an absolute Truth - otherwise, whatever we call truth, is merely personal opinion or relative observation dressed up in a noble sounding word!<<

[www.grahamhancock.com]

The absolute, capital "T" truth, in my view, is most likely part and parcel with God and therefore inaccessible in our present incarnate form. What's left is the truth of what we can know, personally and intimately, about ourselves. Once that's been achieved, it makes sense that we will then know something fundamental, a transcendental truth, something important relative to humanity as well. And then I'm pretty sure You can get to God from there -- actually, this is something I BELIEVE with all my heart, mind and soul; but in deference to Gene's sensibilities I'll leave it at that).

There IS the small matter, however, according to one tradition, of the "cherubims" and "flaming sword" that "keep the way of the tree of life" (Gen 3:24).

This suggests (and is confirmed by me from personal experience), that this truth -- the only thing I can really KNOW about -- me, myself -- this truth is not easily nailed down. It twists and turns; it hides, it writhes, and it bites. David and Gene's analogy of the "Ego" fits well enough -- and, yes, an effort to know oneself does indeed, at times, seem to be like peeling an onion or, for that matter, a snake sloughing off its old skin.

But such an approach to self knowledge, to me, seems interminable. To me it seems a trap of the Ego. Ego is sly and crafty. Though it knows subservience and it knows somnolent, glassy-eyed slumber; it knows no master. It waits for openings -- it waits for the perfect moment. Combating the Ego is like being sealed in a small, inky black cell with a venomous reptile. Just you and the snake in the dark.

Lol - Okay, aspiring adept, or mystic, or shaman or priestess, what do you do with a venomous snake in a small, closed room in the dark? Chant at it? Make a pass?

I loved to terrorize my sisters growing up. One time in particular I found a snake, half-frozen in the snow and also had the extraordinary good fortune to have all three of them (my sisters) near at hand at the time. "Look!" I cried, picking it up by the tail. They barely glanced and were off, screaming, with the snake and I on their heels. The apartment complex we lived in had a dozen doors and half as many hallways and flights of stair. We were up and down and through them all at least twice until they made an error in judgement and tried to hide in a storage closet in the basement. Their labored breathing gave them away, so I tugged on the closet door handle and it yielded and inch or two before three pairs of hands tugged it forcefully back. I tugged at it again and the door yielded again, and they forcefully tugged it back again, making frantic sounds . . .

Now, let it be known that I have sinned greatly in my day. I am a worm. This is not in dispute. I am a craven worm, and my sisters -- and wife, for that matter -- never cease to delight in reminding me of that fact. Perfect strangers, even, seem compelled to remind me not to forget that the devil was man's invention, and that "there is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death."

[www.grahamhancock.com]

[God bless you, Kimberly. If I were given to phylactery, I'd have that one tatooed to my forehead]

Anyhow, back in the basement of our apartment complex, what seemed right, what seemed a fitting finale to the drama over the closet door between my sisters and I was to tug once real hard and toss the snake into the intervening gap . . .

Now, I only held the door for a few seconds -- they, however, will tell you it was ages longer -- I argue that this is purely a subjectivity -- their "being in the moment," as it were -- what's more, no one could have held that door more than four or five seconds max. It is as it was. The point of my little parable, however, is that there was nothing left of the snake. Roadkill has more surface features than that snake had. Caught as my sisters were, in a dark cell with a snake, they didn't try to catch it, negotiate with it, live with it. They stomped the crap out of it. In the maximum of five seconds that I leaned against`the door, they'd reduced that snake to a smear on the linoleum. Really, I'm convinced that's the only way to deal with Ego (Gene, hindsight's twenty-twenty, but perhaps that's something your mom and aunts didn't understand in their generation).

In Genesis, Chapter Two, God brings all the animals to Adam "to see what he would call them." Without much effort, one can see that this was a test of sorts. God wanted to get an idea how Adam saw himself in relation to the rest of the creation. According to the text of this tradion, we're not told what God determined about Adam in this test. All we are told is that God concluded that none of them was "an help meet for him." Adam clearly needed help; yet none of the animals God brought to him would do. So then, were told, God causes a Adam to fall into a deep sleep, removes one of his ribs, forms Eve, then wakes Adam to see if she can help. From the context, it would appear Eve is exactly what Adam was missing in order for him to form an understanding of his true relation to the rest of creation.

This, in my view, is one of the earliest, objective truths -- how might this relate to Gene's anti-belief stance, or David's anti-Ego stance? How might a woman help her husband, her son, her brother to achieve victory over Ego? How, in light of through whom the "fall" is purported to have come, was Eve ever to be a help "meet" for Adam? She did seem to have a way with serpents . . .

Thoughts?

Mark

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Questions about Truth 616 adequatedane 24-Jan-04 10:24
Re: Questions about Truth 127 Segestan 24-Jan-04 14:00
Re: Questions about Truth 119 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:38
Re: Questions about Truth 155 gene douglas 24-Jan-04 14:57
Re: Questions about Truth 127 Alex S 25-Jan-04 01:13
Re: Questions about Truth 121 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 04:04
Re: Questions about Truth 131 Alex S 26-Jan-04 01:18
Re: Questions about Truth 143 gene douglas 26-Jan-04 02:14
Re: Questions about Truth 129 Alex S 27-Jan-04 01:57
Re: Questions about Truth 119 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 09:44
Re: Questions about Truth 108 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:34
Re: Questions about Truth 135 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 08:42
Re: Questions about Truth 127 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 10:05
Re: Questions about Truth 128 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 11:21
Re: Questions about Truth 122 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 15:40
Re: Questions about Truth 132 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 16:14
Re: Questions about Truth 127 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 17:06
Re: Questions about Truth 114 gene douglas 25-Jan-04 21:51
Re: Questions about Truth 126 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:50
Re: Questions about Truth 120 David L 24-Jan-04 15:55
Re: Questions about Truth 108 newrisingsun 24-Jan-04 17:32
Re: Questions about Truth 127 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:40
Re: Questions about Truth 146 David L 25-Jan-04 03:46
Re: Questions about Truth 118 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:45
Re: Questions about Truth 128 David L 25-Jan-04 20:49
Re: Questions about Truth 143 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:37
Re: Questions about Truth 123 David L 25-Jan-04 17:31
Re: Questions about Truth 113 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 22:55
Re: Questions about Truth 134 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 23:04
Re: Questions about Truth 114 David L 28-Jan-04 23:28
Re: Questions about Truth 116 adequatedane 29-Jan-04 23:01
Re: Questions about Truth 125 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 23:26
Re: Questions about Truth 131 David L 30-Jan-04 03:24
Re: Questions about Truth 140 wirelessguru1 30-Jan-04 03:48
Re: Questions about Truth 147 David L 30-Jan-04 22:32
Re: Questions about Truth 116 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 00:30
Re: Questions about Truth 113 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 21:01
Re: Questions about Truth 131 David L 30-Jan-04 22:24
Re: Questions about Truth 116 banah 31-Jan-04 09:13
Re: Questions about Truth 120 David L 31-Jan-04 14:20
Re: Questions about Truth 142 banah 31-Jan-04 20:20
Re: Questions about Truth 128 David L 01-Feb-04 01:59
Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 115 Richard Fusniak 01-Feb-04 14:28
Re: Jesus didn't say anything of the sort 157 banah 01-Feb-04 17:21
Re: Questions about Truth 116 Zurg 03-Feb-04 08:12
Re: Questions about Truth 114 banah 04-Feb-04 10:58
Re: Questions about Truth 143 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:17
Re: Questions about Truth 129 banah 31-Jan-04 09:20
Re: Questions about Truth 141 David L 30-Jan-04 03:26
We don't live in a &quot;true or false&quot; world... 117 David L 30-Jan-04 03:30
Re: We don't live in a &quot;true or false&quot; world... 132 banah 31-Jan-04 09:27
Re: We don't live in a &quot;true or false&quot; world... 121 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:53
Re: We don't live in a &quot;true or false&quot; world... 116 David L 31-Jan-04 13:38
Re: We don't live in a &quot;true or false&quot; world... 122 banah 31-Jan-04 20:47
Re: Questions about Truth 103 RichardC 24-Jan-04 23:50
Re: Questions about Truth 141 adequatedane 25-Jan-04 09:48
Re: Questions about Truth 139 RichardC 25-Jan-04 19:49
Re: Questions about Truth 131 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:00
Re: Questions about Truth 152 RichardC 26-Jan-04 23:32
Re: Questions about Truth 144 banah 25-Jan-04 17:56
Re: Questions about Truth 120 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:24
No such thing 135 Nejc 25-Jan-04 23:13
Re: No such thing 137 adequatedane 26-Jan-04 23:40
Re: No such thing 119 Alex S 27-Jan-04 14:13
Re: No such thing 119 gene douglas 27-Jan-04 19:01
Re: Questions about Truth 134 Mark Staab 25-Jan-04 23:35
Re: Questions about Truth 124 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 00:15
Re: Questions about Truth 122 Mark Staab 27-Jan-04 02:00
Re: Questions about Truth 120 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:40
Re: Questions about Truth 136 banah 30-Jan-04 19:40
Re: Questions about Truth 116 Mark Staab 30-Jan-04 22:22
Re: Questions about Truth 127 banah 31-Jan-04 11:05
Re: Questions about Truth 161 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 06:33
Re: Questions about Truth 153 banah 01-Feb-04 11:48
Re: Questions about Truth 125 adequatedane 01-Feb-04 16:06
Re: Questions about Truth 114 banah 01-Feb-04 17:25
Re: Questions about Truth 132 adequatedane 02-Feb-04 23:58
Re: Questions about Truth 135 banah 04-Feb-04 11:04
Re: Questions about Truth 126 adequatedane 05-Feb-04 22:26
Re: Questions about Truth 109 banah 07-Feb-04 13:19
Re: Questions about Truth 146 adequatedane 07-Feb-04 14:47
Re: ps 122 banah 01-Feb-04 17:29
Re: Questions about Truth 115 Mark Staab 01-Feb-04 23:42
Re: Questions about Truth 113 banah 04-Feb-04 11:07
Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 142 David L 01-Feb-04 21:33
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 140 Mark Staab 02-Feb-04 02:09
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 163 David L 02-Feb-04 23:50
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 122 Mark Staab 03-Feb-04 05:57
Re: Tree of knowledge is the kundalini shakti 158 David L 03-Feb-04 16:11
Regarding the Old Testament... 114 David L 03-Feb-04 16:19
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 129 banah 04-Feb-04 10:45
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 109 David L 04-Feb-04 13:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 127 Mark Staab 05-Feb-04 00:38
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 108 David L 05-Feb-04 01:07
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 139 banah 05-Feb-04 16:48
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 128 David L 05-Feb-04 19:51
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 126 wirelessguru1 06-Feb-04 00:50
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 147 David L 06-Feb-04 01:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 135 wirelessguru1 06-Feb-04 02:24
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 109 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:36
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 125 adequatedane 06-Feb-04 14:09
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 125 David L 06-Feb-04 18:37
Who speaks the truth... 137 wirelessguru1 07-Feb-04 01:37
Re: Who speaks the truth... 131 David L 07-Feb-04 06:12
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 129 banah 07-Feb-04 13:05
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 150 David L 07-Feb-04 15:49
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 127 Anne-Marie 06-Feb-04 07:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 115 wirelessguru1 07-Feb-04 02:28
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 133 Anne-Marie 07-Feb-04 08:19
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 111 banah 07-Feb-04 13:13
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 128 David L 07-Feb-04 16:17
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 127 Cesar 07-Feb-04 17:22
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 169 David L 07-Feb-04 17:48
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 124 Anne-Marie 07-Feb-04 19:59
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 130 David L 07-Feb-04 22:01
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 138 wirelessguru1 08-Feb-04 19:23
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 130 Anne-Marie 08-Feb-04 20:18
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 449 wirelessguru1 08-Feb-04 21:08
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 121 Cesar 08-Feb-04 18:31
Re: Regarding the Old Testament... 116 David L 08-Feb-04 19:15
Re: Questions about Truth 134 Caduceus 27-Jan-04 01:32
Re: Questions about Truth 138 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:49
Re: Questions about Truth 120 Caduceus 29-Jan-04 04:12
Re: Questions about Truth 139 xiang 27-Jan-04 03:16
Re: Questions about Truth 120 Caduceus 27-Jan-04 10:53
Re: Questions about Truth 130 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 17:49
Re: Questions about Truth 116 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 22:13
Re: Questions about Truth 127 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 22:28
Re: Questions about Truth 120 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 23:16
Re: Questions about Truth 154 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:04
Re: Questions about Truth 137 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 21:32
Re: Questions about Truth 136 xiang 28-Jan-04 01:50
Re: Questions about Truth 136 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 21:55
Re: Questions about Truth 131 wirelessguru1 27-Jan-04 07:57
Re: Questions about Truth 122 adequatedane 27-Jan-04 23:24
Re: Questions about Truth 111 wirelessguru1 28-Jan-04 00:24
Re: Questions about Truth 120 adequatedane 28-Jan-04 22:22
Re: Questions about Truth 106 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 01:03
Re: Questions about Truth 105 adequatedane 29-Jan-04 23:35
Re: Questions about Truth 120 wirelessguru1 29-Jan-04 23:56
Re: Questions about Truth 144 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 02:19
Re: Questions about Truth 124 wirelessguru1 30-Jan-04 03:15
Re: Questions about Truth 116 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 21:32
Re: Questions about Truth 133 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 01:04
Re: Questions about Truth 139 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 09:23
Re: Questions about Truth 119 wirelessguru1 31-Jan-04 19:33
Re: Questions about Truth 132 Zurg 30-Jan-04 13:19
Re: Questions about Truth 122 adequatedane 30-Jan-04 22:07
Re: Questions about Truth 129 Dominick Ohrbeck 30-Jan-04 21:39
Re: Questions about Truth 120 adequatedane 31-Jan-04 10:47
Re: Questions about Truth 119 Cesar 08-Feb-04 11:51


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