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I don’t think people, in general, like to turn their attention towards themselves and this might be why a majority of educated and/or intelligent people embrace a materialist explanation of the world, focussing all of their attention outwards, without really interrogating it. Of course, this isn’t universally true and this is why some muse and speculate about ‘non-physical ideas’ but whether it’s because this is uncomfortable there does not seem to be a broad consideration of these problems and ideas.*

I’ve pulled a few comments out of this thread to illustrate my argument.

Q: “How would you describe the 'ethereal' parts of yourself?”
A: “… soul and spirit … 5 or 6 different bodies …”

In my opinion, this idea of spirit, ethereal parts, soul, etc. comes from the commonplace experience of the two apparent worlds: the ‘physical’, shared outside and the ‘mental’, personal inside. You can’t see my thoughts or feel my emotions and even if you use every available technology to probe my brain (more of this later) all you will see are electrical or chemical signatures which may correlate, more or less, to my inner experience.

“ … we are a combination of many different aspects, ideas and experiences, but they are all contained in the one physical body, and that’s a fact whether we think of them differently or not.”

This is a sort of materialist circular logic. There is no evidence that our experiences or ideas occur inside a physical body. This assumption comes from the idea that whatever I am lives somewhere inside my head, probably in the brain, but that idea is only an inference. In fact, the body, whatever it is, exists inside our experience.

To illustrate that there is only experience and inference it is useful to see if you can recall any dream or maybe try to imagine being immersed in a virtual reality. In the latter, current technology allows the simulation of sight, sound and motion. It is not hard to imagine that taste, smell and other sensations could be created in future evolutions of this technology. Dreams are even more sophisticated. With the exception of lucid dreamers we do not know that we are dreaming until after the fact. Only when we wake do we realise the experience was a dream even if it flew in the face of logic and physics. While it was happening we were convinced and absorbed.

It is a common theme in science fiction and even popular science that one could be living inside a simulation. The nature of a simulation is that it is an illusion; nothing is what it seems to be. In your night time dream you can live in a world all of your own imagining and interact with any number of people. In fact, if you’ve ever studied your dreams you might realise that you could even be a different character from the one you are in waking life while still being ‘me’.

The purpose of this digression into dreams and simulations was to point out that ideas, and the perceptions and sensations which tell us about the world and body are all a part of a single, undivided experience. Even ideas that there are different aspects to our life – internal or external, physical versus mental - are inferences which are not justified by a sceptical inquiry into our immediate experience.

Returning to the idea that probing the brain can tell us anything about experience, all this can ever show us is correlation. No chemical or electrical signature in the brain can explain the experience of the colour red or the taste of cheese. Even if there is consistent coincidence of the measurement and the experience there is not a single piece of evidence to show how the one could lead to the other.

*Too little value is given to philosophy these days. David Hume, considered by many to be the greatest philosopher to write in the English language, demonstrated in the 18th Century that we cannot demonstrate either any real connection between cause and effect or that there is any substance to the world. Of course, science couldn’t operate without these assumptions but that doesn’t mean that they’re right.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
What is the point of Evolution? 1492 thirdpal 05-Nov-19 18:53
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 185 thirdpal 06-Nov-19 17:39
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 158 thirdpal 13-Nov-19 17:52
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 186 Susan Doris 14-Nov-19 06:11
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 144 thirdpal 14-Nov-19 19:22
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 140 Susan Doris 15-Nov-19 06:08
An accident 136 greengirl5 20-Nov-19 00:01
Re: An accident 130 Susan Doris 20-Nov-19 06:06
No accident 137 greengirl5 20-Nov-19 09:28
Re: No accident 128 tayga 23-Nov-19 08:13
Re: No accident 127 Susan Doris 23-Nov-19 08:33
Re: No accident 120 greengirl5 23-Nov-19 11:13
Re: No accident 112 Susan Doris 24-Nov-19 06:22
Re: No accident 118 greengirl5 24-Nov-19 09:17
Re: No accident 116 Eddie Larry 24-Nov-19 14:06
Re: No accident 112 Susan Doris 24-Nov-19 16:36
Re: No accident 115 Eddie Larry 24-Nov-19 16:52
Re: No accident 110 greengirl5 24-Nov-19 20:26
Re: No accident 108 Eddie Larry 24-Nov-19 23:38
Re: No accident 104 greengirl5 25-Nov-19 00:50
Re: No accident 109 Eddie Larry 25-Nov-19 01:01
Re: No accident 118 Susan Doris 25-Nov-19 07:07
Re: No accident 111 greengirl5 23-Nov-19 11:09
Re: An accident 109 Itatw70s 26-Nov-19 23:44
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 143 Eddie Larry 14-Nov-19 08:08
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 141 thirdpal 14-Nov-19 19:29
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 130 Eddie Larry 14-Nov-19 22:11
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 135 Susan Doris 15-Nov-19 06:36
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 136 thirdpal 15-Nov-19 16:41
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 136 Susan Doris 16-Nov-19 06:08
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 129 thirdpal 18-Nov-19 18:19
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 127 Eddie Larry 18-Nov-19 21:03
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 130 Susan Doris 19-Nov-19 08:27
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 124 thirdpal 19-Nov-19 18:30
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 122 Susan Doris 19-Nov-19 23:31
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 114 thirdpal 20-Nov-19 14:19
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 112 Susan Doris 21-Nov-19 06:24
Einstein again 112 greengirl5 21-Nov-19 12:59
Re: Einstein again 106 Eddie Larry 21-Nov-19 17:27
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 129 thirdpal 21-Nov-19 19:40
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 122 Susan Doris 22-Nov-19 08:21
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 112 tayga 23-Nov-19 13:54
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 110 Eddie Larry 23-Nov-19 14:31
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 133 greengirl5 20-Nov-19 09:34
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 149 thirdpal 20-Nov-19 14:27
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 109 Itatw70s 27-Nov-19 00:19
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 92 Eddie Larry 21-Dec-19 21:08
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 105 gulsbo 23-Dec-19 19:26
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 80 Eddie Larry 23-Dec-19 19:45
Mod Note > Topic Moved 122 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Nov-19 16:07
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 126 gulsbo 26-Nov-19 14:26
Stupid is the word! 122 greengirl5 26-Nov-19 21:28
Re: Stupid is the word! 117 gulsbo 27-Nov-19 16:12
Re: Stupid is the word! 132 Susan Doris 27-Nov-19 17:06
Re: Stupid is the word! 121 gulsbo 27-Nov-19 17:30
Re: Stupid is the word! 120 Eddie Larry 27-Nov-19 18:47
Your problem 123 drrayeye 27-Nov-19 19:20
Re: Your problem 121 Susan Doris 28-Nov-19 06:30
Lets stick to the OP 112 drrayeye 28-Nov-19 10:07
Re: Lets stick to the OP 111 Susan Doris 28-Nov-19 13:48
Re: Your problem 119 gulsbo 28-Nov-19 13:53
Re: Your problem 125 Eddie Larry 28-Nov-19 17:22
Re: Your problem 118 gulsbo 28-Nov-19 19:50
Re: Your problem 123 Eddie Larry 29-Nov-19 00:34
Re: Your problem 119 gulsbo 29-Nov-19 15:49
Re: Your problem 113 Eddie Larry 29-Nov-19 17:30
Re: Your problem 105 gulsbo 30-Nov-19 13:49
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 105 Eddie Larry 30-Nov-19 15:40
Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 101 drrayeye 30-Nov-19 20:58
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 107 Eddie Larry 01-Dec-19 00:17
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 107 drrayeye 01-Dec-19 04:19
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 104 Eddie Larry 01-Dec-19 04:35
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 100 Susan Doris 01-Dec-19 06:03
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 106 Eddie Larry 01-Dec-19 14:41
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 105 gulsbo 02-Dec-19 16:30
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 101 drrayeye 03-Dec-19 03:54
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 103 gulsbo 03-Dec-19 21:36
Your "philosophical" evolution 105 drrayeye 04-Dec-19 14:19
Re: Your "philosophical" evolution 102 gulsbo 04-Dec-19 15:14
Re: Your "philosophical" evolution 101 Glass Jigsaw 04-Dec-19 15:19
Re: Your "philosophical" evolution 100 drrayeye 05-Dec-19 08:02
Re: Your "philosophical" evolution 101 Susan Doris 05-Dec-19 13:10
Re: Your "philosophical" evolution 98 drrayeye 05-Dec-19 19:10
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 105 Glass Jigsaw 03-Dec-19 11:50
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 106 gulsbo 03-Dec-19 21:43
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 100 Susan Doris 04-Dec-19 06:39
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 105 gulsbo 04-Dec-19 06:59
Your "philosophical" evolution 108 drrayeye 04-Dec-19 14:33
Re: Your "philosophical" evolution 116 gulsbo 04-Dec-19 15:33
It's still philosophy 105 drrayeye 05-Dec-19 00:06
Re: It's still philosophy 118 gulsbo 05-Dec-19 15:10
Re: It's still philosophy 96 Susan Doris 05-Dec-19 15:33
Re: It's still philosophy 122 gulsbo 05-Dec-19 16:36
Re: It's still philosophy 100 Susan Doris 06-Dec-19 01:21
Re: It's still philosophy 123 gulsbo 06-Dec-19 08:02
Re: It's still philosophy 99 Susan Doris 06-Dec-19 14:21
Re: It's still philosophy 121 gulsbo 07-Dec-19 11:41
Re: It's still philosophy 102 Susan Doris 07-Dec-19 13:21
Re: It's still philosophy 125 gulsbo 07-Dec-19 22:26
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 103 Susan Doris 01-Dec-19 06:00
Scientists don't refute 118 drrayeye 01-Dec-19 06:33
Re: Scientists don't refute 108 Glass Jigsaw 01-Dec-19 19:01
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 111 Eddie Larry 01-Dec-19 21:27
NOPE 104 drrayeye 02-Dec-19 00:11
Re: NOPE 109 Eddie Larry 02-Dec-19 01:18
Re: NOPE 106 drrayeye 02-Dec-19 06:28
Re: NOPE 100 Eddie Larry 02-Dec-19 14:53
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 96 Susan Doris 02-Dec-19 06:04
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 100 Eddie Larry 02-Dec-19 14:50
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 95 Susan Doris 02-Dec-19 18:05
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 96 Eddie Larry 02-Dec-19 18:10
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 103 Glass Jigsaw 02-Dec-19 12:52
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 98 drrayeye 02-Dec-19 14:29
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 96 Glass Jigsaw 02-Dec-19 14:49
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 96 Eddie Larry 02-Dec-19 15:13
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 96 gulsbo 02-Dec-19 16:39
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 93 Eddie Larry 02-Dec-19 17:39
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 117 gulsbo 05-Dec-19 18:31
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 101 Susan Doris 01-Dec-19 13:32
100% faith 102 greengirl5 01-Dec-19 21:17
Re: 100% faith 100 Susan Doris 02-Dec-19 06:27
Re: 99 % faith and something new to do 105 greengirl5 02-Dec-19 20:44
Re: 99 % faith and something new to do 98 Susan Doris 03-Dec-19 06:04
Re: 100% faith 101 Susan Doris 03-Dec-19 16:08
Short email sent 96 greengirl5 03-Dec-19 21:19
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 101 drrayeye 02-Dec-19 00:29
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 95 Susan Doris 02-Dec-19 06:37
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 98 Susan Doris 01-Dec-19 05:44
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 96 gulsbo 03-Dec-19 11:39
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 103 Glass Jigsaw 03-Dec-19 12:35
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 101 Eddie Larry 03-Dec-19 18:40
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 102 gulsbo 03-Dec-19 21:54
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 105 Eddie Larry 04-Dec-19 15:37
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 117 gulsbo 05-Dec-19 15:17
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 98 Susan Doris 05-Dec-19 15:37
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 115 gulsbo 05-Dec-19 16:39
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 97 Eddie Larry 05-Dec-19 16:58
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 121 gulsbo 05-Dec-19 20:23
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 101 Eddie Larry 05-Dec-19 23:14
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 98 Glass Jigsaw 06-Dec-19 00:31
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 94 Susan Doris 06-Dec-19 01:30
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 102 Eddie Larry 06-Dec-19 05:03
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 98 Susan Doris 06-Dec-19 06:00
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 90 Eddie Larry 06-Dec-19 17:17
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 88 Susan Doris 06-Dec-19 18:24
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 93 Eddie Larry 06-Dec-19 19:00
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 95 Susan Doris 07-Dec-19 06:08
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 80 Eddie Larry 10-Dec-19 19:20
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 99 Glass Jigsaw 06-Dec-19 12:09
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 95 Susan Doris 06-Dec-19 14:37
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 115 gulsbo 07-Dec-19 11:50
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 92 Eddie Larry 07-Dec-19 23:58
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 100 Glass Jigsaw 06-Dec-19 17:59
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 96 Eddie Larry 06-Dec-19 19:03
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 98 Glass Jigsaw 06-Dec-19 19:28
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 101 Eddie Larry 06-Dec-19 20:47
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 116 gulsbo 07-Dec-19 11:53
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 91 Glass Jigsaw 07-Dec-19 13:01
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 116 gulsbo 07-Dec-19 22:35
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 99 Glass Jigsaw 08-Dec-19 13:23
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 107 gulsbo 23-Dec-19 12:34
Re: Your problem 112 greengirl5 29-Nov-19 20:51
Re: Your problem 112 Glass Jigsaw 29-Nov-19 19:26
Re: Your problem 107 Susan Doris 30-Nov-19 06:14
Re: Your problem 100 gulsbo 30-Nov-19 14:11
Re: Your problem 99 Glass Jigsaw 30-Nov-19 15:19
Re: Your problem 96 Susan Doris 01-Dec-19 06:08
Re: Your problem 100 Eddie Larry 30-Nov-19 15:25
Re: Your problem 100 Glass Jigsaw 30-Nov-19 15:45
Re: Your problem 101 Eddie Larry 30-Nov-19 15:57
Re: Your problem 107 Glass Jigsaw 30-Nov-19 16:04
Re: Your problem 109 gulsbo 30-Nov-19 17:43
Re: Your problem 107 Eddie Larry 30-Nov-19 20:26
Re: Your problem 96 gulsbo 01-Dec-19 14:57
Re: Your problem 103 Eddie Larry 01-Dec-19 16:36
Re: Your problem 97 gulsbo 02-Dec-19 11:38
Re: Your problem 101 Eddie Larry 02-Dec-19 14:59
Re: Your problem 103 Glass Jigsaw 02-Dec-19 15:11
Re: Your problem 98 Eddie Larry 02-Dec-19 17:45
Re: Your problem 101 gulsbo 03-Dec-19 10:54
Re: Your problem 107 Eddie Larry 03-Dec-19 15:11
Re: Your problem 98 gulsbo 03-Dec-19 21:59
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 128 Enigcom 01-Dec-19 04:02
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 118 Susan Doris 01-Dec-19 06:17
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 103 Enigcom 04-Dec-19 14:49
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 100 Susan Doris 04-Dec-19 15:36
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 119 gulsbo 01-Dec-19 15:07
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 121 Susan Doris 01-Dec-19 16:36
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 112 gulsbo 03-Dec-19 11:09
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 112 Enigcom 04-Dec-19 14:54
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 124 Enigcom 03-Dec-19 18:58
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 139 gulsbo 05-Dec-19 16:41
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 120 Susan Doris 06-Dec-19 01:32
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 124 gulsbo 07-Dec-19 11:56
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 106 Susan Doris 07-Dec-19 13:54
Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 106 Mayavitch 07-Dec-19 20:50
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 139 gulsbo 07-Dec-19 22:44
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 108 Mayavitch 07-Dec-19 23:27
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 111 Susan Doris 08-Dec-19 05:55
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 113 Mayavitch 08-Dec-19 17:53
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 99 Susan Doris 09-Dec-19 07:13
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 91 Eddie Larry 09-Dec-19 13:33
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 92 Susan Doris 09-Dec-19 14:01
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 94 Eddie Larry 09-Dec-19 15:34
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 92 Susan Doris 09-Dec-19 18:41
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 90 Eddie Larry 09-Dec-19 20:57
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 91 Susan Doris 10-Dec-19 01:38
Perhaps “bossy” would be better! 90 Eddie Larry 10-Dec-19 19:34
Re: Perhaps “bossy” would be better! 92 Susan Doris 11-Dec-19 06:34
Evidence never good enough for some 83 greengirl5 11-Dec-19 11:24
Re: Evidence never good enough for some 84 Susan Doris 11-Dec-19 16:13
Re: Perhaps “bossy” would be better! 89 drrayeye 11-Dec-19 11:36
Re: Perhaps “bossy” would be better! 83 Susan Doris 11-Dec-19 16:21
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 99 Mayavitch 09-Dec-19 18:55
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 100 Susan Doris 09-Dec-19 19:15
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 95 Mayavitch 09-Dec-19 19:34
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 100 Susan Doris 09-Dec-19 19:51
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 107 Mayavitch 09-Dec-19 21:13
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 97 Eddie Larry 09-Dec-19 22:45
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 98 Mayavitch 10-Dec-19 22:07
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 94 Eddie Larry 10-Dec-19 23:28
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 108 Susan Doris 10-Dec-19 01:49
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 99 Mayavitch 10-Dec-19 19:21
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 98 Susan Doris 11-Dec-19 01:39
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 91 greengirl5 11-Dec-19 11:48
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 102 Susan Doris 11-Dec-19 16:35
A tip for you 88 greengirl5 11-Dec-19 21:24
Re: A tip for you 91 Susan Doris 11-Dec-19 22:30
Re: A tip for you 96 greengirl5 12-Dec-19 02:45
Re: A tip for you 97 drrayeye 12-Dec-19 14:27
Re: A tip for you 90 Susan Doris 12-Dec-19 15:15
My way 85 drrayeye 12-Dec-19 17:47
Re: My way 94 Susan Doris 12-Dec-19 18:18
All roads lead to beliefs 94 Eddie Larry 12-Dec-19 18:51
Re: All roads lead to beliefs 90 greengirl5 12-Dec-19 22:00
Seek and you will find 91 greengirl5 12-Dec-19 21:58
Re: My way 100 drrayeye 12-Dec-19 23:05
Re: My way 96 Susan Doris 13-Dec-19 06:19
Re: My way 89 Glass Jigsaw 13-Dec-19 11:57
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 93 greengirl5 11-Dec-19 11:38
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 107 D-Archer 10-Dec-19 14:51
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 108 Susan Doris 10-Dec-19 15:18
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 99 D-Archer 12-Dec-19 15:46
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 103 greengirl5 12-Dec-19 22:03
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 116 D-Archer 13-Dec-19 13:26
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 106 drrayeye 10-Dec-19 18:01
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 109 gulsbo 21-Dec-19 21:04
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 94 Kaaron 23-Dec-19 22:09
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 81 Susan Doris 24-Dec-19 07:12
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 96 Kaaron 24-Dec-19 09:54
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 82 Susan Doris 24-Dec-19 18:15
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 88 Eddie Larry 24-Dec-19 18:44
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 101 gulsbo 29-Dec-19 19:36
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 79 Kaaron 29-Dec-19 19:45
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 156 Eddie Larry 29-Dec-19 21:11
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 101 Kaaron 25-Dec-19 07:07
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 96 gulsbo 29-Dec-19 19:30


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