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I don’t think people, in general, like to turn their attention towards themselves and this might be why a majority of educated and/or intelligent people embrace a materialist explanation of the world, focussing all of their attention outwards, without really interrogating it. Of course, this isn’t universally true and this is why some muse and speculate about ‘non-physical ideas’ but whether it’s because this is uncomfortable there does not seem to be a broad consideration of these problems and ideas.*

I’ve pulled a few comments out of this thread to illustrate my argument.

Q: “How would you describe the 'ethereal' parts of yourself?”
A: “… soul and spirit … 5 or 6 different bodies …”

In my opinion, this idea of spirit, ethereal parts, soul, etc. comes from the commonplace experience of the two apparent worlds: the ‘physical’, shared outside and the ‘mental’, personal inside. You can’t see my thoughts or feel my emotions and even if you use every available technology to probe my brain (more of this later) all you will see are electrical or chemical signatures which may correlate, more or less, to my inner experience.

“ … we are a combination of many different aspects, ideas and experiences, but they are all contained in the one physical body, and that’s a fact whether we think of them differently or not.”

This is a sort of materialist circular logic. There is no evidence that our experiences or ideas occur inside a physical body. This assumption comes from the idea that whatever I am lives somewhere inside my head, probably in the brain, but that idea is only an inference. In fact, the body, whatever it is, exists inside our experience.

To illustrate that there is only experience and inference it is useful to see if you can recall any dream or maybe try to imagine being immersed in a virtual reality. In the latter, current technology allows the simulation of sight, sound and motion. It is not hard to imagine that taste, smell and other sensations could be created in future evolutions of this technology. Dreams are even more sophisticated. With the exception of lucid dreamers we do not know that we are dreaming until after the fact. Only when we wake do we realise the experience was a dream even if it flew in the face of logic and physics. While it was happening we were convinced and absorbed.

It is a common theme in science fiction and even popular science that one could be living inside a simulation. The nature of a simulation is that it is an illusion; nothing is what it seems to be. In your night time dream you can live in a world all of your own imagining and interact with any number of people. In fact, if you’ve ever studied your dreams you might realise that you could even be a different character from the one you are in waking life while still being ‘me’.

The purpose of this digression into dreams and simulations was to point out that ideas, and the perceptions and sensations which tell us about the world and body are all a part of a single, undivided experience. Even ideas that there are different aspects to our life – internal or external, physical versus mental - are inferences which are not justified by a sceptical inquiry into our immediate experience.

Returning to the idea that probing the brain can tell us anything about experience, all this can ever show us is correlation. No chemical or electrical signature in the brain can explain the experience of the colour red or the taste of cheese. Even if there is consistent coincidence of the measurement and the experience there is not a single piece of evidence to show how the one could lead to the other.

*Too little value is given to philosophy these days. David Hume, considered by many to be the greatest philosopher to write in the English language, demonstrated in the 18th Century that we cannot demonstrate either any real connection between cause and effect or that there is any substance to the world. Of course, science couldn’t operate without these assumptions but that doesn’t mean that they’re right.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
What is the point of Evolution? 1366 thirdpal 05-Nov-19 18:53
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 152 thirdpal 06-Nov-19 17:39
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 125 thirdpal 13-Nov-19 17:52
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 142 Susan Doris 14-Nov-19 06:11
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 113 thirdpal 14-Nov-19 19:22
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 107 Susan Doris 15-Nov-19 06:08
An accident 102 greengirl5 20-Nov-19 00:01
Re: An accident 97 Susan Doris 20-Nov-19 06:06
No accident 102 greengirl5 20-Nov-19 09:28
Re: No accident 95 tayga 23-Nov-19 08:13
Re: No accident 95 Susan Doris 23-Nov-19 08:33
Re: No accident 89 greengirl5 23-Nov-19 11:13
Re: No accident 79 Susan Doris 24-Nov-19 06:22
Re: No accident 84 greengirl5 24-Nov-19 09:17
Re: No accident 84 Eddie Larry 24-Nov-19 14:06
Re: No accident 79 Susan Doris 24-Nov-19 16:36
Re: No accident 82 Eddie Larry 24-Nov-19 16:52
Re: No accident 78 greengirl5 24-Nov-19 20:26
Re: No accident 76 Eddie Larry 24-Nov-19 23:38
Re: No accident 72 greengirl5 25-Nov-19 00:50
Re: No accident 73 Eddie Larry 25-Nov-19 01:01
Re: No accident 81 Susan Doris 25-Nov-19 07:07
Re: No accident 77 greengirl5 23-Nov-19 11:09
Re: An accident 76 Itatw70s 26-Nov-19 23:44
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 110 Eddie Larry 14-Nov-19 08:08
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 107 thirdpal 14-Nov-19 19:29
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 97 Eddie Larry 14-Nov-19 22:11
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 100 Susan Doris 15-Nov-19 06:36
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 99 thirdpal 15-Nov-19 16:41
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 102 Susan Doris 16-Nov-19 06:08
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 95 thirdpal 18-Nov-19 18:19
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 94 Eddie Larry 18-Nov-19 21:03
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 98 Susan Doris 19-Nov-19 08:27
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 91 thirdpal 19-Nov-19 18:30
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 90 Susan Doris 19-Nov-19 23:31
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 83 thirdpal 20-Nov-19 14:19
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 82 Susan Doris 21-Nov-19 06:24
Einstein again 80 greengirl5 21-Nov-19 12:59
Re: Einstein again 74 Eddie Larry 21-Nov-19 17:27
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 96 thirdpal 21-Nov-19 19:40
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 86 Susan Doris 22-Nov-19 08:21
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 76 tayga 23-Nov-19 13:54
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 76 Eddie Larry 23-Nov-19 14:31
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 99 greengirl5 20-Nov-19 09:34
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 117 thirdpal 20-Nov-19 14:27
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 73 Itatw70s 27-Nov-19 00:19
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 56 Eddie Larry 21-Dec-19 21:08
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 56 gulsbo 23-Dec-19 19:26
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 46 Eddie Larry 23-Dec-19 19:45
Mod Note > Topic Moved 85 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Nov-19 16:07
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 89 gulsbo 26-Nov-19 14:26
Stupid is the word! 84 greengirl5 26-Nov-19 21:28
Re: Stupid is the word! 79 gulsbo 27-Nov-19 16:12
Re: Stupid is the word! 93 Susan Doris 27-Nov-19 17:06
Re: Stupid is the word! 81 gulsbo 27-Nov-19 17:30
Re: Stupid is the word! 81 Eddie Larry 27-Nov-19 18:47
Your problem 85 drrayeye 27-Nov-19 19:20
Re: Your problem 86 Susan Doris 28-Nov-19 06:30
Lets stick to the OP 78 drrayeye 28-Nov-19 10:07
Re: Lets stick to the OP 74 Susan Doris 28-Nov-19 13:48
Re: Your problem 82 gulsbo 28-Nov-19 13:53
Re: Your problem 82 Eddie Larry 28-Nov-19 17:22
Re: Your problem 82 gulsbo 28-Nov-19 19:50
Re: Your problem 88 Eddie Larry 29-Nov-19 00:34
Re: Your problem 79 gulsbo 29-Nov-19 15:49
Re: Your problem 81 Eddie Larry 29-Nov-19 17:30
Re: Your problem 70 gulsbo 30-Nov-19 13:49
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 73 Eddie Larry 30-Nov-19 15:40
Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 71 drrayeye 30-Nov-19 20:58
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 73 Eddie Larry 01-Dec-19 00:17
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 71 drrayeye 01-Dec-19 04:19
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 71 Eddie Larry 01-Dec-19 04:35
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 70 Susan Doris 01-Dec-19 06:03
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 74 Eddie Larry 01-Dec-19 14:41
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 73 gulsbo 02-Dec-19 16:30
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 70 drrayeye 03-Dec-19 03:54
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 69 gulsbo 03-Dec-19 21:36
Your "philosophical" evolution 71 drrayeye 04-Dec-19 14:19
Re: Your "philosophical" evolution 69 gulsbo 04-Dec-19 15:14
Re: Your "philosophical" evolution 68 Glass Jigsaw 04-Dec-19 15:19
Re: Your "philosophical" evolution 66 drrayeye 05-Dec-19 08:02
Re: Your "philosophical" evolution 67 Susan Doris 05-Dec-19 13:10
Re: Your "philosophical" evolution 60 drrayeye 05-Dec-19 19:10
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 71 Glass Jigsaw 03-Dec-19 11:50
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 70 gulsbo 03-Dec-19 21:43
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 66 Susan Doris 04-Dec-19 06:39
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 69 gulsbo 04-Dec-19 06:59
Your "philosophical" evolution 74 drrayeye 04-Dec-19 14:33
Re: Your "philosophical" evolution 72 gulsbo 04-Dec-19 15:33
It's still philosophy 72 drrayeye 05-Dec-19 00:06
Re: It's still philosophy 71 gulsbo 05-Dec-19 15:10
Re: It's still philosophy 61 Susan Doris 05-Dec-19 15:33
Re: It's still philosophy 74 gulsbo 05-Dec-19 16:36
Re: It's still philosophy 67 Susan Doris 06-Dec-19 01:21
Re: It's still philosophy 74 gulsbo 06-Dec-19 08:02
Re: It's still philosophy 66 Susan Doris 06-Dec-19 14:21
Re: It's still philosophy 73 gulsbo 07-Dec-19 11:41
Re: It's still philosophy 68 Susan Doris 07-Dec-19 13:21
Re: It's still philosophy 75 gulsbo 07-Dec-19 22:26
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 71 Susan Doris 01-Dec-19 06:00
Scientists don't refute 86 drrayeye 01-Dec-19 06:33
Re: Scientists don't refute 75 Glass Jigsaw 01-Dec-19 19:01
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 78 Eddie Larry 01-Dec-19 21:27
NOPE 70 drrayeye 02-Dec-19 00:11
Re: NOPE 77 Eddie Larry 02-Dec-19 01:18
Re: NOPE 71 drrayeye 02-Dec-19 06:28
Re: NOPE 68 Eddie Larry 02-Dec-19 14:53
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 63 Susan Doris 02-Dec-19 06:04
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 67 Eddie Larry 02-Dec-19 14:50
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 62 Susan Doris 02-Dec-19 18:05
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 64 Eddie Larry 02-Dec-19 18:10
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 69 Glass Jigsaw 02-Dec-19 12:52
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 66 drrayeye 02-Dec-19 14:29
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 63 Glass Jigsaw 02-Dec-19 14:49
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 63 Eddie Larry 02-Dec-19 15:13
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 62 gulsbo 02-Dec-19 16:39
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 59 Eddie Larry 02-Dec-19 17:39
Re: Scientists don't refute - They evolve 68 gulsbo 05-Dec-19 18:31
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 69 Susan Doris 01-Dec-19 13:32
100% faith 69 greengirl5 01-Dec-19 21:17
Re: 100% faith 69 Susan Doris 02-Dec-19 06:27
Re: 99 % faith and something new to do 73 greengirl5 02-Dec-19 20:44
Re: 99 % faith and something new to do 65 Susan Doris 03-Dec-19 06:04
Re: 100% faith 68 Susan Doris 03-Dec-19 16:08
Short email sent 62 greengirl5 03-Dec-19 21:19
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 66 drrayeye 02-Dec-19 00:29
Re: Scientific vs. "philosophical" evolution 62 Susan Doris 02-Dec-19 06:37
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 66 Susan Doris 01-Dec-19 05:44
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 62 gulsbo 03-Dec-19 11:39
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 71 Glass Jigsaw 03-Dec-19 12:35
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 66 Eddie Larry 03-Dec-19 18:40
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 66 gulsbo 03-Dec-19 21:54
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 71 Eddie Larry 04-Dec-19 15:37
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 69 gulsbo 05-Dec-19 15:17
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 66 Susan Doris 05-Dec-19 15:37
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 67 gulsbo 05-Dec-19 16:39
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 64 Eddie Larry 05-Dec-19 16:58
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 73 gulsbo 05-Dec-19 20:23
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 66 Eddie Larry 05-Dec-19 23:14
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 62 Glass Jigsaw 06-Dec-19 00:31
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 59 Susan Doris 06-Dec-19 01:30
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 65 Eddie Larry 06-Dec-19 05:03
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 65 Susan Doris 06-Dec-19 06:00
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 57 Eddie Larry 06-Dec-19 17:17
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 55 Susan Doris 06-Dec-19 18:24
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 59 Eddie Larry 06-Dec-19 19:00
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 59 Susan Doris 07-Dec-19 06:08
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 47 Eddie Larry 10-Dec-19 19:20
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 65 Glass Jigsaw 06-Dec-19 12:09
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 63 Susan Doris 06-Dec-19 14:37
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 67 gulsbo 07-Dec-19 11:50
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 58 Eddie Larry 07-Dec-19 23:58
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 64 Glass Jigsaw 06-Dec-19 17:59
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 64 Eddie Larry 06-Dec-19 19:03
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 65 Glass Jigsaw 06-Dec-19 19:28
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 66 Eddie Larry 06-Dec-19 20:47
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 69 gulsbo 07-Dec-19 11:53
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 60 Glass Jigsaw 07-Dec-19 13:01
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 65 gulsbo 07-Dec-19 22:35
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 63 Glass Jigsaw 08-Dec-19 13:23
Re: Your problem - “The intermediates!” 55 gulsbo 23-Dec-19 12:34
Re: Your problem 77 greengirl5 29-Nov-19 20:51
Re: Your problem 78 Glass Jigsaw 29-Nov-19 19:26
Re: Your problem 74 Susan Doris 30-Nov-19 06:14
Re: Your problem 66 gulsbo 30-Nov-19 14:11
Re: Your problem 65 Glass Jigsaw 30-Nov-19 15:19
Re: Your problem 64 Susan Doris 01-Dec-19 06:08
Re: Your problem 68 Eddie Larry 30-Nov-19 15:25
Re: Your problem 67 Glass Jigsaw 30-Nov-19 15:45
Re: Your problem 68 Eddie Larry 30-Nov-19 15:57
Re: Your problem 73 Glass Jigsaw 30-Nov-19 16:04
Re: Your problem 74 gulsbo 30-Nov-19 17:43
Re: Your problem 75 Eddie Larry 30-Nov-19 20:26
Re: Your problem 63 gulsbo 01-Dec-19 14:57
Re: Your problem 69 Eddie Larry 01-Dec-19 16:36
Re: Your problem 63 gulsbo 02-Dec-19 11:38
Re: Your problem 69 Eddie Larry 02-Dec-19 14:59
Re: Your problem 67 Glass Jigsaw 02-Dec-19 15:11
Re: Your problem 66 Eddie Larry 02-Dec-19 17:45
Re: Your problem 67 gulsbo 03-Dec-19 10:54
Re: Your problem 73 Eddie Larry 03-Dec-19 15:11
Re: Your problem 64 gulsbo 03-Dec-19 21:59
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 93 Enigcom 01-Dec-19 04:02
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 86 Susan Doris 01-Dec-19 06:17
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 69 Enigcom 04-Dec-19 14:49
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 68 Susan Doris 04-Dec-19 15:36
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 85 gulsbo 01-Dec-19 15:07
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 87 Susan Doris 01-Dec-19 16:36
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 77 gulsbo 03-Dec-19 11:09
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 81 Enigcom 04-Dec-19 14:54
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 90 Enigcom 03-Dec-19 18:58
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 93 gulsbo 05-Dec-19 16:41
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 86 Susan Doris 06-Dec-19 01:32
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 76 gulsbo 07-Dec-19 11:56
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 71 Susan Doris 07-Dec-19 13:54
Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 74 Mayavitch 07-Dec-19 20:50
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 90 gulsbo 07-Dec-19 22:44
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 75 Mayavitch 07-Dec-19 23:27
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 75 Susan Doris 08-Dec-19 05:55
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 75 Mayavitch 08-Dec-19 17:53
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 63 Susan Doris 09-Dec-19 07:13
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 59 Eddie Larry 09-Dec-19 13:33
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 58 Susan Doris 09-Dec-19 14:01
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 61 Eddie Larry 09-Dec-19 15:34
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 57 Susan Doris 09-Dec-19 18:41
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 57 Eddie Larry 09-Dec-19 20:57
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 58 Susan Doris 10-Dec-19 01:38
Perhaps “bossy” would be better! 57 Eddie Larry 10-Dec-19 19:34
Re: Perhaps “bossy” would be better! 57 Susan Doris 11-Dec-19 06:34
Evidence never good enough for some 50 greengirl5 11-Dec-19 11:24
Re: Evidence never good enough for some 51 Susan Doris 11-Dec-19 16:13
Re: Perhaps “bossy” would be better! 56 drrayeye 11-Dec-19 11:36
Re: Perhaps “bossy” would be better! 51 Susan Doris 11-Dec-19 16:21
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 65 Mayavitch 09-Dec-19 18:55
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 66 Susan Doris 09-Dec-19 19:15
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 63 Mayavitch 09-Dec-19 19:34
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 67 Susan Doris 09-Dec-19 19:51
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 74 Mayavitch 09-Dec-19 21:13
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 65 Eddie Larry 09-Dec-19 22:45
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 65 Mayavitch 10-Dec-19 22:07
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 61 Eddie Larry 10-Dec-19 23:28
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 74 Susan Doris 10-Dec-19 01:49
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 66 Mayavitch 10-Dec-19 19:21
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 64 Susan Doris 11-Dec-19 01:39
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 60 greengirl5 11-Dec-19 11:48
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 68 Susan Doris 11-Dec-19 16:35
A tip for you 56 greengirl5 11-Dec-19 21:24
Re: A tip for you 59 Susan Doris 11-Dec-19 22:30
Re: A tip for you 63 greengirl5 12-Dec-19 02:45
Re: A tip for you 66 drrayeye 12-Dec-19 14:27
Re: A tip for you 58 Susan Doris 12-Dec-19 15:15
My way 52 drrayeye 12-Dec-19 17:47
Re: My way 60 Susan Doris 12-Dec-19 18:18
All roads lead to beliefs 61 Eddie Larry 12-Dec-19 18:51
Re: All roads lead to beliefs 57 greengirl5 12-Dec-19 22:00
Seek and you will find 58 greengirl5 12-Dec-19 21:58
Re: My way 68 drrayeye 12-Dec-19 23:05
Re: My way 62 Susan Doris 13-Dec-19 06:19
Re: My way 56 Glass Jigsaw 13-Dec-19 11:57
Re: Evolution is inexorably on the ascendent 60 greengirl5 11-Dec-19 11:38
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 72 D-Archer 10-Dec-19 14:51
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 76 Susan Doris 10-Dec-19 15:18
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 67 D-Archer 12-Dec-19 15:46
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 70 greengirl5 12-Dec-19 22:03
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 76 D-Archer 13-Dec-19 13:26
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 72 drrayeye 10-Dec-19 18:01
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 60 gulsbo 21-Dec-19 21:04
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 56 Kaaron 23-Dec-19 22:09
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 49 Susan Doris 24-Dec-19 07:12
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 57 Kaaron 24-Dec-19 09:54
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 49 Susan Doris 24-Dec-19 18:15
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 55 Eddie Larry 24-Dec-19 18:44
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 53 gulsbo 29-Dec-19 19:36
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 41 Kaaron 29-Dec-19 19:45
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 81 Eddie Larry 29-Dec-19 21:11
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 61 Kaaron 25-Dec-19 07:07
Re: What is the point of Evolution? 48 gulsbo 29-Dec-19 19:30


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