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Hi Malcolm

I see room for two kinds of simulations, both of which Dawkins must acknowledge as possible.

The key phrase he makes, near the end of his answer, is that if a teenage boy could design a simulation, that he would have to have it operated normally according to rules that mimic physical laws.

Now, let's think about that.

Suppose our teen creates such a game, whereby unwitting players enter the Game without knowing it is a virtual reality. As part of his agenda, he sets things up so that mountains are "virtually" impossible to move. In time, the players learn that they can move mountains within the rules, by building trucks and cranes that meet the Game's requirements. Much labour and planning involved. And where manual labour is required the Game can be tweaked so that the player feels ever-increasing degrees of effort as he tries to take on more work, until he reaches a limit of course, as we all do within reality.

And so, after many decades where much learning is involved: learning that includes The Game being the only reality. That we all cease to exist after we leave the Game. That it takes this much science and that much physics to be able to take on the task of moving a mountain---

As one stares at the mountain from within the Game, knowing all of these things as he does, the mountain rises up in the air and appears to fly across the sky until settles some distance off to the left.

Our player is at a complete loss to explain what happened. What has happened, is a simple select-and-drag computer move, where the 'mountain' is simply re-positioned, according to higher laws that have to do with computer technology, rather than any of the rules that apply to within the Game.

Other players - some, not all - will surely say that such a think never happened because mountains don't fly. And here's the analogy. The world's spiritual tradition speak constantly of miracles. Seen more prosaically, perhaps these miracles are simply manifestations of a higher physics. Of course, it is easy to dismiss all of those testimonials as fiction, since they are relegated to an obscure past. But such denial is not so easy to apply to similar present-day events.

One such event was Fatima, which Susan recently said she supports being buried. But she failed to provide a shed of evidence that shows why this event is likely to be normal. This is typical of the denialists. At the end of the day, when evidence doesn't support them, they must deny, deny and deny. Better to ignore the evidence, as Susan recently advocated. At least that way one doesn't have to confront the embarrassment that so often accompanies carte blanche denial.

There's a lot to like about simulation theory, but it may be that the 'real' universe itself is based entirely on information, just like computers are. Staying with my one example just a little longer: rather than question whether or not tens of thousands of people actually saw the sun dance, or a ufo, etc, on an appointed day, the better question may be to question the nature of reality itself.

In recent years we've become too hooked on the myth of the physical universe being all that there is. We act this way while conceding at the same time - unless we don't mind sounding ignorant - that the physical world is 99.9999999999999 percent empty space, that thought shapes matter at the quantum level, and various other things that speak to why what greets our senses is NOT to be taken for what it appears to be.

Think about that. Simulation theory, by it's very nature, presupposes two sets of laws of physics (as a minimum): what causes the Game to function normally, and what causes the normal process to be interrupted.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 1623 drrayeye 29-Aug-19 19:46
Is there such a thing as Spiritual Blindness? 145 drrayeye 30-Aug-19 13:28
Re: Is there such a thing as Spiritual Blindness? 135 PB Bytes 30-Aug-19 17:07
Re: Is there such a thing as Spiritual Blindness? 152 drrayeye 30-Aug-19 17:29
Re: Is there such a thing as Spiritual Blindness? 134 Eddie Larry 30-Aug-19 19:12
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 156 Susan Doris 30-Aug-19 14:53
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 146 drrayeye 30-Aug-19 15:37
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 137 Eddie Larry 30-Aug-19 20:30
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 138 drrayeye 30-Aug-19 22:04
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 132 Eddie Larry 30-Aug-19 23:10
Empirical science and spiritual experiences 121 drrayeye 30-Aug-19 23:59
Re: Empirical science and spiritual experiences 129 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 00:09
Re: Empirical science and spiritual experiences 141 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 00:40
Spirituality is one's whole inner and outer character; there is no division.... 139 Itatw70s 31-Aug-19 01:32
The Christian alternative: asceticism 124 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 01:49
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 147 Itatw70s 31-Aug-19 01:55
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 139 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 02:14
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 154 Itatw70s 31-Aug-19 20:53
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 129 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 23:08
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 121 Itatw70s 02-Sep-19 18:08
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 125 drrayeye 02-Sep-19 19:03
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 120 Itatw70s 02-Sep-19 20:39
This thread is about science 116 drrayeye 02-Sep-19 21:08
Re: This thread is about science 119 Itatw70s 02-Sep-19 21:31
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 136 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 02:01
Re: Empirical science and spiritual experiences 133 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 01:45
Re: Empirical science and spiritual experiences 153 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 02:18
Re: Empirical science and spiritual experiences 118 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 02:29
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 132 Jrevans 31-Aug-19 01:02
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 130 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 01:44
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 149 jazzmumbles 31-Aug-19 01:25
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 136 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 01:37
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 140 jazzmumbles 31-Aug-19 02:42
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 126 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 02:58
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 122 Itatw70s 01-Sep-19 20:31
NOPE 126 drrayeye 01-Sep-19 22:47
Re: NOPE 128 Itatw70s 02-Sep-19 20:59
Science is not a threat 137 drrayeye 02-Sep-19 21:11
Re: Science is not a threat 132 Itatw70s 02-Sep-19 21:37
Re: Science is not a threat 136 drrayeye 03-Sep-19 03:00
Re: Science is not a threat 118 Itatw70s 03-Sep-19 06:04
Re: Science is not a threat 136 drrayeye 03-Sep-19 07:31
Re: Science is not a threat 119 Susan Doris 03-Sep-19 07:47
Of course 126 drrayeye 03-Sep-19 08:05
Re: Of course 122 Susan Doris 03-Sep-19 10:14
Re: Of course 125 Itatw70s 03-Sep-19 11:40
Just Passing Through 152 drrayeye 03-Sep-19 12:54
"There is nowhere where there is not God".... 125 Itatw70s 03-Sep-19 22:17
Agreed 132 drrayeye 03-Sep-19 23:58
philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 132 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 11:54
Re: philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 136 Susan Doris 31-Aug-19 15:09
Re: philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 132 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 15:56
Re: philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 125 Susan Doris 31-Aug-19 17:51
Re: philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 137 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 18:49
Thought experimentation is the key.... 135 Itatw70s 01-Sep-19 21:03
From Descartes to the present 136 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 18:20
Re: From Descartes to the present 137 Susan Doris 01-Sep-19 05:12
You can lead a horse to water . . . 139 drrayeye 01-Sep-19 06:20
Re: philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 152 jazzmumbles 02-Sep-19 00:18
Nah 136 drrayeye 02-Sep-19 06:48
No not an extra you are the star. 163 grangram 03-Sep-19 07:39
Sorry 154 drrayeye 03-Sep-19 08:44
I don't think Dawkins likes the theory? 130 grangram 04-Sep-19 08:02
Re: I don't think Dawkins likes the theory? 142 drrayeye 04-Sep-19 13:15
Re: I don't think Dawkins likes the theory? 130 PB Bytes 04-Sep-19 19:44
The greatest cult of all... 126 Eddie Larry 04-Sep-19 21:08
Re: The greatest cult of all... 135 Itatw70s 04-Sep-19 22:55
Re: The greatest cult of all... 119 Eddie Larry 04-Sep-19 23:01
Re: The greatest cult of all... 135 Itatw70s 04-Sep-19 23:05
Re: The greatest cult of all... 118 Eddie Larry 05-Sep-19 02:16
Human imagination 116 grangram 05-Sep-19 10:00
Re: Human imagination 120 Eddie Larry 05-Sep-19 19:34
The better question may be to question the nature of reality itself. 148 grangram 05-Sep-19 08:29
Re: The better question may be to question the nature of reality itself. 137 Itatw70s 05-Sep-19 11:41
Re: The better question may be to question the nature of reality itself. 136 grangram 05-Sep-19 11:57
Re: The better question may be to question the nature of reality itself. 124 Susan Doris 05-Sep-19 12:18
Lazy Lazy Lazy 135 drrayeye 05-Sep-19 16:12
Re: Lazy Lazy Lazy 126 Susan Doris 06-Sep-19 05:01
The links are there 124 drrayeye 06-Sep-19 07:06
Re: The links are there 127 Susan Doris 06-Sep-19 12:21
Re: The links are there 127 drrayeye 06-Sep-19 12:51
Re: The links are there 122 Susan Doris 06-Sep-19 16:07
Further thoughts 109 drrayeye 06-Sep-19 17:56
Re: The links are there 116 Susan Doris 06-Sep-19 12:40
Re: The links are there 113 drrayeye 06-Sep-19 16:26
Re: The links are there 117 Susan Doris 06-Sep-19 18:12
One of the things I've learned 109 drrayeye 06-Sep-19 19:19
Re: One of the things I've learned 118 PB Bytes 06-Sep-19 19:47
Re: One of the things I've learned 123 Susan Doris 07-Sep-19 05:26
Dr. Sam 116 drrayeye 07-Sep-19 06:35
Re: Dr. Sam 120 Susan Doris 07-Sep-19 07:01
Re: The better question may be to question the nature of reality itself. 124 PB Bytes 05-Sep-19 20:15
Re: The better question may be to question the nature of reality itself. 129 Susan Doris 06-Sep-19 05:05
Re: The better question may be to question the nature of reality itself. 130 PB Bytes 05-Sep-19 20:13
Strongly disagree 143 drrayeye 05-Sep-19 21:09
Re: Strongly disagree 128 PB Bytes 05-Sep-19 21:28
The visual field (brain) and the visual world (mind) 154 drrayeye 05-Sep-19 20:28
Re: The visual field (brain) and the visual world (mind) 125 Susan Doris 06-Sep-19 05:12
I did 130 drrayeye 06-Sep-19 07:20
Thanks 137 grangram 06-Sep-19 08:14
Re: No not an extra you are the star. 153 jazzmumbles 07-Sep-19 22:14
Re: No not an extra you are the star. 126 grangram 11-Sep-19 20:26
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 116 grangram 11-Sep-19 20:12
medical science is an oxymoron 138 drrayeye 11-Sep-19 21:41
Thank God for plumbers and electricians 128 grangram 13-Sep-19 07:38
Re: Thank God for plumbers and electricians 147 Susan Doris 13-Sep-19 10:30
Re: Thank God for plumbers and electricians 115 PB Bytes 13-Sep-19 16:09
Re: Thank God for plumbers and electricians 118 Eddie Larry 13-Sep-19 17:48
medicine vs. science 113 drrayeye 13-Sep-19 17:52
Re: medicine vs. science 122 PB Bytes 13-Sep-19 18:19
A critical distinction 119 drrayeye 13-Sep-19 19:50
Save a prayer for the scientist 127 drrayeye 13-Sep-19 11:03
James 2:14 122 grangram 14-Sep-19 11:34
Re: James 2:14 125 drrayeye 14-Sep-19 15:24
Pence's health care 115 grangram 15-Sep-19 22:18
Second Timothy 2: 15 206 drrayeye 16-Sep-19 00:32
Re: James 2:14 120 Glass Jigsaw 15-Sep-19 20:26
It's always different 101 drrayeye 16-Sep-19 00:17


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