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Hi Malcolm

I see room for two kinds of simulations, both of which Dawkins must acknowledge as possible.

The key phrase he makes, near the end of his answer, is that if a teenage boy could design a simulation, that he would have to have it operated normally according to rules that mimic physical laws.

Now, let's think about that.

Suppose our teen creates such a game, whereby unwitting players enter the Game without knowing it is a virtual reality. As part of his agenda, he sets things up so that mountains are "virtually" impossible to move. In time, the players learn that they can move mountains within the rules, by building trucks and cranes that meet the Game's requirements. Much labour and planning involved. And where manual labour is required the Game can be tweaked so that the player feels ever-increasing degrees of effort as he tries to take on more work, until he reaches a limit of course, as we all do within reality.

And so, after many decades where much learning is involved: learning that includes The Game being the only reality. That we all cease to exist after we leave the Game. That it takes this much science and that much physics to be able to take on the task of moving a mountain---

As one stares at the mountain from within the Game, knowing all of these things as he does, the mountain rises up in the air and appears to fly across the sky until settles some distance off to the left.

Our player is at a complete loss to explain what happened. What has happened, is a simple select-and-drag computer move, where the 'mountain' is simply re-positioned, according to higher laws that have to do with computer technology, rather than any of the rules that apply to within the Game.

Other players - some, not all - will surely say that such a think never happened because mountains don't fly. And here's the analogy. The world's spiritual tradition speak constantly of miracles. Seen more prosaically, perhaps these miracles are simply manifestations of a higher physics. Of course, it is easy to dismiss all of those testimonials as fiction, since they are relegated to an obscure past. But such denial is not so easy to apply to similar present-day events.

One such event was Fatima, which Susan recently said she supports being buried. But she failed to provide a shed of evidence that shows why this event is likely to be normal. This is typical of the denialists. At the end of the day, when evidence doesn't support them, they must deny, deny and deny. Better to ignore the evidence, as Susan recently advocated. At least that way one doesn't have to confront the embarrassment that so often accompanies carte blanche denial.

There's a lot to like about simulation theory, but it may be that the 'real' universe itself is based entirely on information, just like computers are. Staying with my one example just a little longer: rather than question whether or not tens of thousands of people actually saw the sun dance, or a ufo, etc, on an appointed day, the better question may be to question the nature of reality itself.

In recent years we've become too hooked on the myth of the physical universe being all that there is. We act this way while conceding at the same time - unless we don't mind sounding ignorant - that the physical world is 99.9999999999999 percent empty space, that thought shapes matter at the quantum level, and various other things that speak to why what greets our senses is NOT to be taken for what it appears to be.

Think about that. Simulation theory, by it's very nature, presupposes two sets of laws of physics (as a minimum): what causes the Game to function normally, and what causes the normal process to be interrupted.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 1537 drrayeye 29-Aug-19 19:46
Is there such a thing as Spiritual Blindness? 120 drrayeye 30-Aug-19 13:28
Re: Is there such a thing as Spiritual Blindness? 112 Poster Boy 30-Aug-19 17:07
Re: Is there such a thing as Spiritual Blindness? 128 drrayeye 30-Aug-19 17:29
Re: Is there such a thing as Spiritual Blindness? 109 Eddie Larry 30-Aug-19 19:12
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 132 Susan Doris 30-Aug-19 14:53
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 124 drrayeye 30-Aug-19 15:37
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 114 Eddie Larry 30-Aug-19 20:30
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 109 drrayeye 30-Aug-19 22:04
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 109 Eddie Larry 30-Aug-19 23:10
Empirical science and spiritual experiences 99 drrayeye 30-Aug-19 23:59
Re: Empirical science and spiritual experiences 104 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 00:09
Re: Empirical science and spiritual experiences 119 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 00:40
Spirituality is one's whole inner and outer character; there is no division.... 114 Itatw70s 31-Aug-19 01:32
The Christian alternative: asceticism 101 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 01:49
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 121 Itatw70s 31-Aug-19 01:55
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 115 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 02:14
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 131 Itatw70s 31-Aug-19 20:53
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 104 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 23:08
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 97 Itatw70s 02-Sep-19 18:08
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 100 drrayeye 02-Sep-19 19:03
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 96 Itatw70s 02-Sep-19 20:39
This thread is about science 93 drrayeye 02-Sep-19 21:08
Re: This thread is about science 96 Itatw70s 02-Sep-19 21:31
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 113 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 02:01
Re: Empirical science and spiritual experiences 109 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 01:45
Re: Empirical science and spiritual experiences 129 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 02:18
Re: Empirical science and spiritual experiences 95 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 02:29
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 107 Jrevans 31-Aug-19 01:02
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 105 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 01:44
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 126 jazzmumbles 31-Aug-19 01:25
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 109 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 01:37
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 114 jazzmumbles 31-Aug-19 02:42
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 102 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 02:58
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 99 Itatw70s 01-Sep-19 20:31
NOPE 102 drrayeye 01-Sep-19 22:47
Re: NOPE 102 Itatw70s 02-Sep-19 20:59
Science is not a threat 115 drrayeye 02-Sep-19 21:11
Re: Science is not a threat 108 Itatw70s 02-Sep-19 21:37
Re: Science is not a threat 113 drrayeye 03-Sep-19 03:00
Re: Science is not a threat 95 Itatw70s 03-Sep-19 06:04
Re: Science is not a threat 112 drrayeye 03-Sep-19 07:31
Re: Science is not a threat 94 Susan Doris 03-Sep-19 07:47
Of course 104 drrayeye 03-Sep-19 08:05
Re: Of course 97 Susan Doris 03-Sep-19 10:14
Re: Of course 102 Itatw70s 03-Sep-19 11:40
Just Passing Through 129 drrayeye 03-Sep-19 12:54
"There is nowhere where there is not God".... 98 Itatw70s 03-Sep-19 22:17
Agreed 109 drrayeye 03-Sep-19 23:58
philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 107 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 11:54
Re: philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 114 Susan Doris 31-Aug-19 15:09
Re: philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 101 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 15:56
Re: philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 101 Susan Doris 31-Aug-19 17:51
Re: philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 113 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 18:49
Thought experimentation is the key.... 110 Itatw70s 01-Sep-19 21:03
From Descartes to the present 112 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 18:20
Re: From Descartes to the present 114 Susan Doris 01-Sep-19 05:12
You can lead a horse to water . . . 112 drrayeye 01-Sep-19 06:20
Re: philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 125 jazzmumbles 02-Sep-19 00:18
Nah 112 drrayeye 02-Sep-19 06:48
No not an extra you are the star. 134 grangram 03-Sep-19 07:39
Sorry 130 drrayeye 03-Sep-19 08:44
I don't think Dawkins likes the theory? 107 grangram 04-Sep-19 08:02
Re: I don't think Dawkins likes the theory? 119 drrayeye 04-Sep-19 13:15
Re: I don't think Dawkins likes the theory? 108 Poster Boy 04-Sep-19 19:44
The greatest cult of all... 100 Eddie Larry 04-Sep-19 21:08
Re: The greatest cult of all... 114 Itatw70s 04-Sep-19 22:55
Re: The greatest cult of all... 95 Eddie Larry 04-Sep-19 23:01
Re: The greatest cult of all... 112 Itatw70s 04-Sep-19 23:05
Re: The greatest cult of all... 96 Eddie Larry 05-Sep-19 02:16
Human imagination 93 grangram 05-Sep-19 10:00
Re: Human imagination 97 Eddie Larry 05-Sep-19 19:34
The better question may be to question the nature of reality itself. 125 grangram 05-Sep-19 08:29
Re: The better question may be to question the nature of reality itself. 113 Itatw70s 05-Sep-19 11:41
Re: The better question may be to question the nature of reality itself. 112 grangram 05-Sep-19 11:57
Re: The better question may be to question the nature of reality itself. 101 Susan Doris 05-Sep-19 12:18
Lazy Lazy Lazy 112 drrayeye 05-Sep-19 16:12
Re: Lazy Lazy Lazy 101 Susan Doris 06-Sep-19 05:01
The links are there 101 drrayeye 06-Sep-19 07:06
Re: The links are there 103 Susan Doris 06-Sep-19 12:21
Re: The links are there 102 drrayeye 06-Sep-19 12:51
Re: The links are there 100 Susan Doris 06-Sep-19 16:07
Further thoughts 84 drrayeye 06-Sep-19 17:56
Re: The links are there 95 Susan Doris 06-Sep-19 12:40
Re: The links are there 91 drrayeye 06-Sep-19 16:26
Re: The links are there 91 Susan Doris 06-Sep-19 18:12
One of the things I've learned 88 drrayeye 06-Sep-19 19:19
Re: One of the things I've learned 94 Poster Boy 06-Sep-19 19:47
Re: One of the things I've learned 98 Susan Doris 07-Sep-19 05:26
Dr. Sam 92 drrayeye 07-Sep-19 06:35
Re: Dr. Sam 93 Susan Doris 07-Sep-19 07:01
Re: The better question may be to question the nature of reality itself. 102 Poster Boy 05-Sep-19 20:15
Re: The better question may be to question the nature of reality itself. 106 Susan Doris 06-Sep-19 05:05
Re: The better question may be to question the nature of reality itself. 106 Poster Boy 05-Sep-19 20:13
Strongly disagree 119 drrayeye 05-Sep-19 21:09
Re: Strongly disagree 106 Poster Boy 05-Sep-19 21:28
The visual field (brain) and the visual world (mind) 130 drrayeye 05-Sep-19 20:28
Re: The visual field (brain) and the visual world (mind) 103 Susan Doris 06-Sep-19 05:12
I did 105 drrayeye 06-Sep-19 07:20
Thanks 114 grangram 06-Sep-19 08:14
Re: No not an extra you are the star. 123 jazzmumbles 07-Sep-19 22:14
Re: No not an extra you are the star. 100 grangram 11-Sep-19 20:26
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 93 grangram 11-Sep-19 20:12
medical science is an oxymoron 109 drrayeye 11-Sep-19 21:41
Thank God for plumbers and electricians 106 grangram 13-Sep-19 07:38
Re: Thank God for plumbers and electricians 112 Susan Doris 13-Sep-19 10:30
Re: Thank God for plumbers and electricians 91 Poster Boy 13-Sep-19 16:09
Re: Thank God for plumbers and electricians 92 Eddie Larry 13-Sep-19 17:48
medicine vs. science 91 drrayeye 13-Sep-19 17:52
Re: medicine vs. science 99 Poster Boy 13-Sep-19 18:19
A critical distinction 95 drrayeye 13-Sep-19 19:50
Save a prayer for the scientist 102 drrayeye 13-Sep-19 11:03
James 2:14 97 grangram 14-Sep-19 11:34
Re: James 2:14 102 drrayeye 14-Sep-19 15:24
Pence's health care 94 grangram 15-Sep-19 22:18
Second Timothy 2: 15 153 drrayeye 16-Sep-19 00:32
Re: James 2:14 94 Glass Jigsaw 15-Sep-19 20:26
It's always different 77 drrayeye 16-Sep-19 00:17


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