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Hi Malcolm

I see room for two kinds of simulations, both of which Dawkins must acknowledge as possible.

The key phrase he makes, near the end of his answer, is that if a teenage boy could design a simulation, that he would have to have it operated normally according to rules that mimic physical laws.

Now, let's think about that.

Suppose our teen creates such a game, whereby unwitting players enter the Game without knowing it is a virtual reality. As part of his agenda, he sets things up so that mountains are "virtually" impossible to move. In time, the players learn that they can move mountains within the rules, by building trucks and cranes that meet the Game's requirements. Much labour and planning involved. And where manual labour is required the Game can be tweaked so that the player feels ever-increasing degrees of effort as he tries to take on more work, until he reaches a limit of course, as we all do within reality.

And so, after many decades where much learning is involved: learning that includes The Game being the only reality. That we all cease to exist after we leave the Game. That it takes this much science and that much physics to be able to take on the task of moving a mountain---

As one stares at the mountain from within the Game, knowing all of these things as he does, the mountain rises up in the air and appears to fly across the sky until settles some distance off to the left.

Our player is at a complete loss to explain what happened. What has happened, is a simple select-and-drag computer move, where the 'mountain' is simply re-positioned, according to higher laws that have to do with computer technology, rather than any of the rules that apply to within the Game.

Other players - some, not all - will surely say that such a think never happened because mountains don't fly. And here's the analogy. The world's spiritual tradition speak constantly of miracles. Seen more prosaically, perhaps these miracles are simply manifestations of a higher physics. Of course, it is easy to dismiss all of those testimonials as fiction, since they are relegated to an obscure past. But such denial is not so easy to apply to similar present-day events.

One such event was Fatima, which Susan recently said she supports being buried. But she failed to provide a shed of evidence that shows why this event is likely to be normal. This is typical of the denialists. At the end of the day, when evidence doesn't support them, they must deny, deny and deny. Better to ignore the evidence, as Susan recently advocated. At least that way one doesn't have to confront the embarrassment that so often accompanies carte blanche denial.

There's a lot to like about simulation theory, but it may be that the 'real' universe itself is based entirely on information, just like computers are. Staying with my one example just a little longer: rather than question whether or not tens of thousands of people actually saw the sun dance, or a ufo, etc, on an appointed day, the better question may be to question the nature of reality itself.

In recent years we've become too hooked on the myth of the physical universe being all that there is. We act this way while conceding at the same time - unless we don't mind sounding ignorant - that the physical world is 99.9999999999999 percent empty space, that thought shapes matter at the quantum level, and various other things that speak to why what greets our senses is NOT to be taken for what it appears to be.

Think about that. Simulation theory, by it's very nature, presupposes two sets of laws of physics (as a minimum): what causes the Game to function normally, and what causes the normal process to be interrupted.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 1377 drrayeye 29-Aug-19 19:46
Is there such a thing as Spiritual Blindness? 76 drrayeye 30-Aug-19 13:28
Re: Is there such a thing as Spiritual Blindness? 73 Poster Boy 30-Aug-19 17:07
Re: Is there such a thing as Spiritual Blindness? 73 drrayeye 30-Aug-19 17:29
Re: Is there such a thing as Spiritual Blindness? 67 Eddie Larry 30-Aug-19 19:12
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 76 Susan Doris 30-Aug-19 14:53
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 77 drrayeye 30-Aug-19 15:37
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 66 Eddie Larry 30-Aug-19 20:30
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 66 drrayeye 30-Aug-19 22:04
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 61 Eddie Larry 30-Aug-19 23:10
Empirical science and spiritual experiences 61 drrayeye 30-Aug-19 23:59
Re: Empirical science and spiritual experiences 63 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 00:09
Re: Empirical science and spiritual experiences 65 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 00:40
Spirituality is one's whole inner and outer character; there is no division.... 67 Itatw70s 31-Aug-19 01:32
The Christian alternative: asceticism 67 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 01:49
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 72 Itatw70s 31-Aug-19 01:55
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 66 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 02:14
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 74 Itatw70s 31-Aug-19 20:53
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 60 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 23:08
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 56 Itatw70s 02-Sep-19 18:08
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 55 drrayeye 02-Sep-19 19:03
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 54 Itatw70s 02-Sep-19 20:39
This thread is about science 53 drrayeye 02-Sep-19 21:08
Re: This thread is about science 54 Itatw70s 02-Sep-19 21:31
Re: The Christian alternative: asceticism 59 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 02:01
Re: Empirical science and spiritual experiences 64 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 01:45
Re: Empirical science and spiritual experiences 61 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 02:18
Re: Empirical science and spiritual experiences 55 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 02:29
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 64 Jrevans 31-Aug-19 01:02
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 61 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 01:44
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 67 jazzmumbles 31-Aug-19 01:25
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 66 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 01:37
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 67 jazzmumbles 31-Aug-19 02:42
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 63 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 02:58
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 59 Itatw70s 01-Sep-19 20:31
NOPE 58 drrayeye 01-Sep-19 22:47
Re: NOPE 59 Itatw70s 02-Sep-19 20:59
Science is not a threat 61 drrayeye 02-Sep-19 21:11
Re: Science is not a threat 63 Itatw70s 02-Sep-19 21:37
Re: Science is not a threat 60 drrayeye 03-Sep-19 03:00
Re: Science is not a threat 51 Itatw70s 03-Sep-19 06:04
Re: Science is not a threat 49 drrayeye 03-Sep-19 07:31
Re: Science is not a threat 54 Susan Doris 03-Sep-19 07:47
Of course 55 drrayeye 03-Sep-19 08:05
Re: Of course 57 Susan Doris 03-Sep-19 10:14
Re: Of course 64 Itatw70s 03-Sep-19 11:40
Just Passing Through 71 drrayeye 03-Sep-19 12:54
"There is nowhere where there is not God".... 57 Itatw70s 03-Sep-19 22:17
Agreed 58 drrayeye 03-Sep-19 23:58
philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 68 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 11:54
Re: philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 69 Susan Doris 31-Aug-19 15:09
Re: philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 61 Eddie Larry 31-Aug-19 15:56
Re: philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 61 Susan Doris 31-Aug-19 17:51
Re: philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 68 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 18:49
Thought experimentation is the key.... 59 Itatw70s 01-Sep-19 21:03
From Descartes to the present 72 drrayeye 31-Aug-19 18:20
Re: From Descartes to the present 67 Susan Doris 01-Sep-19 05:12
You can lead a horse to water . . . 73 drrayeye 01-Sep-19 06:20
Re: philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 77 jazzmumbles 02-Sep-19 00:18
Nah 70 drrayeye 02-Sep-19 06:48
No not an extra you are the star. 78 grangram 03-Sep-19 07:39
Sorry 71 drrayeye 03-Sep-19 08:44
I don't think Dawkins likes the theory? 68 grangram 04-Sep-19 08:02
Re: I don't think Dawkins likes the theory? 63 drrayeye 04-Sep-19 13:15
Re: I don't think Dawkins likes the theory? 62 Poster Boy 04-Sep-19 19:44
The greatest cult of all... 61 Eddie Larry 04-Sep-19 21:08
Re: The greatest cult of all... 57 Itatw70s 04-Sep-19 22:55
Re: The greatest cult of all... 58 Eddie Larry 04-Sep-19 23:01
Re: The greatest cult of all... 62 Itatw70s 04-Sep-19 23:05
Re: The greatest cult of all... 55 Eddie Larry 05-Sep-19 02:16
Human imagination 54 grangram 05-Sep-19 10:00
Re: Human imagination 55 Eddie Larry 05-Sep-19 19:34
The better question may be to question the nature of reality itself. 67 grangram 05-Sep-19 08:29
Re: The better question may be to question the nature of reality itself. 62 Itatw70s 05-Sep-19 11:41
Re: The better question may be to question the nature of reality itself. 57 grangram 05-Sep-19 11:57
Re: The better question may be to question the nature of reality itself. 60 Susan Doris 05-Sep-19 12:18
Lazy Lazy Lazy 64 drrayeye 05-Sep-19 16:12
Re: Lazy Lazy Lazy 53 Susan Doris 06-Sep-19 05:01
The links are there 56 drrayeye 06-Sep-19 07:06
Re: The links are there 55 Susan Doris 06-Sep-19 12:21
Re: The links are there 56 drrayeye 06-Sep-19 12:51
Re: The links are there 56 Susan Doris 06-Sep-19 16:07
Further thoughts 46 drrayeye 06-Sep-19 17:56
Re: The links are there 51 Susan Doris 06-Sep-19 12:40
Re: The links are there 50 drrayeye 06-Sep-19 16:26
Re: The links are there 53 Susan Doris 06-Sep-19 18:12
One of the things I've learned 51 drrayeye 06-Sep-19 19:19
Re: One of the things I've learned 54 Poster Boy 06-Sep-19 19:47
Re: One of the things I've learned 54 Susan Doris 07-Sep-19 05:26
Dr. Sam 50 drrayeye 07-Sep-19 06:35
Re: Dr. Sam 57 Susan Doris 07-Sep-19 07:01
Re: The better question may be to question the nature of reality itself. 61 Poster Boy 05-Sep-19 20:15
Re: The better question may be to question the nature of reality itself. 54 Susan Doris 06-Sep-19 05:05
Re: The better question may be to question the nature of reality itself. 63 Poster Boy 05-Sep-19 20:13
Strongly disagree 63 drrayeye 05-Sep-19 21:09
Re: Strongly disagree 67 Poster Boy 05-Sep-19 21:28
The visual field (brain) and the visual world (mind) 68 drrayeye 05-Sep-19 20:28
Re: The visual field (brain) and the visual world (mind) 65 Susan Doris 06-Sep-19 05:12
I did 65 drrayeye 06-Sep-19 07:20
Thanks 63 grangram 06-Sep-19 08:14
Re: No not an extra you are the star. 68 jazzmumbles 07-Sep-19 22:14
Re: No not an extra you are the star. 53 grangram 11-Sep-19 20:26
Re: Empirical science, philosophy of science--and spiritual experiences 54 grangram 11-Sep-19 20:12
medical science is an oxymoron 61 drrayeye 11-Sep-19 21:41
Thank God for plumbers and electricians 52 grangram 13-Sep-19 07:38
Re: Thank God for plumbers and electricians 55 Susan Doris 13-Sep-19 10:30
Re: Thank God for plumbers and electricians 53 Poster Boy 13-Sep-19 16:09
Re: Thank God for plumbers and electricians 50 Eddie Larry 13-Sep-19 17:48
medicine vs. science 51 drrayeye 13-Sep-19 17:52
Re: medicine vs. science 57 Poster Boy 13-Sep-19 18:19
A critical distinction 57 drrayeye 13-Sep-19 19:50
Save a prayer for the scientist 62 drrayeye 13-Sep-19 11:03
James 2:14 59 grangram 14-Sep-19 11:34
Re: James 2:14 61 drrayeye 14-Sep-19 15:24
Pence's health care 52 grangram 15-Sep-19 22:18
Second Timothy 2: 15 79 drrayeye 16-Sep-19 00:32
Re: James 2:14 53 Glass Jigsaw 15-Sep-19 20:26
It's always different 43 drrayeye 16-Sep-19 00:17


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