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You can go after the priests etc. as much as you like, with my blessing. However, ordinary people know there is something bigger than our brains. Too bad you hang on to your brain alone. It seems a bit out of touch.
Not all church leaders are bad either. I just read about a Danish minister who in the olden days, not sure when, thundered against certain customs which included horrendous animal cruelty.

GG.



Susan Doris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote

Actually Susan, I think that what ancient
> people decided was that there were forces of
> Nature that did NOT do what people wanted. Like
> volcanoes, storms, earthquakes etc. We call them,
> even today, forces of nature. They can still
> destroy us and our plans.
> On what basis do you think they did not
> anthropomorphise these forces of nature?? Do you
> think they realised they were natural forces of
> nature? If that was the case, why do you think
> that people, as they became more stable and were
> surviving more successfully, made that natural
> system into a more and more complicated system of
> worshipping the gods/spirits that they imagined,
> and told people, were behind them?
> They worked to placate them, built places for
> these forces to be worshipped. If, right from that
> logical start, they knew they were exploiting the
> people with their apparent power to intercede with
> whatever gods they had invented, that makes
> religions and their leaders an unhelpful way of
> living – I was going to say, ‘a blight’ but
> that is too derogatory a term - on society for
> more like a million years rather than tens of
> thousands I think, don’t you?
> If ancient people went from understanding that
> natural events were just that – natural, it
> would have been a backward step, evolutionarily if
> nothing else, to thentreat them as
> gods/spirits/etc.
>
Quote

I suggest that what was superstitious was
> thinking people could do things which avert these
> natural processes.
> Well, yes, that is what superstition is, isn’t
> it?! :) To say that religious beliefs are not
> superstitions doesn’t hold water. If you believe
> they are different, can you explain why?
>
Quote

So I take it now that “alternative
> superstition “ simply means ancient
> superstitions or Susan’s interpretation of
> ancient superstitions.
> No, I’ll make it clear – ancient superstitions
> were understandable; alternative superstitions
> that followed and continue today, were and are
> religious beliefs, with supposed gods or spirits
> as their focus.
>
Quote

In terms of your last two sentences, I
> think that modern religions have already handled
> the issues of ancient or original superstitions
> quite well. God for modern religions is really
> tied to the concept of good or goodness.
> Especially, a lifestyle based on love of life and
> reciprocity towards one’s neighbors.
> That, as we have learnt from evolutionary studies,
> is a vital survival trait. As long as it continues
> to be passed on, the human race will continue to
> survive, in spite of the unevidenced ideas of
> many, whether they are meant in as kind and good a
> manner or not. Religious leaders are so deeply
> embedded and involved in the necessity for
> perpetuating these faith beliefs that I suppose
> enough of them work for the good of the people for
> them to be supported until such time as they
> become a minority view. I shake my head sadly that
> there are still such vast numbers who can
> inculcate, indoctrinate, teach as truth, etc daft
> beliefs like people flying on winged horses,
> angels with wings, resurrections of people who
> then rise – whyrise? We know enough about the
> Earth, galaxies and the universe to understand
> what is above us” – into some mythical
> heaven.
>
Quote

Now the notion that ‘god is beyond space
> and time’ was a later notion based on
>
Doesn’t matter what it was based on –
> it is a false idea which gets religious leaders
> out of the hole they are in.
> I will also say that as far as I’m concerned,
> the CofE, shaky as it is, provides the background
> stability needed by humans and should stay until
> something more able to form that background
> becomes available.
>
Quote

You know Susan, god does not have to be
> interpreted as a “supernatural
> existent”
> Of course, there is no obligation, ;ought or
> should to do that. Why do you think it should? For
> one thing, as I might have mentioned occasionally,
> there is zero evidence for any godd/spirit/etc
> existing other than as an idea in human brains.
>
Quote

and , if so, then you don’t have an
> argument at all. I can only suggest being careful
> with the argument of supernatural reality.
>
> You’ll have to explain that – I can’t see
> what you mean.
>
Quote

It works both ways. IMO, of course.
>
> What does?!! And How?
>
Quote

My definition is simple, god is the word
> people use to name the meaning they find in life.
> Not “supernatural “ at all.
> If that were true, then there would be a cessation
> of people killing others because of the others’
> beliefs. And, of course, the word God would lose
> its authority because the religious leaders
> claiming its existence would be shown to be
> spreading falsehoods.
>
Quote

Hope this helps!
> I don’t know about that, but it has made a very
> interesting start to my Saturday! Thank you.
>
> Susan

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Free will or not? 1085 greengirl5 04-Nov-18 21:54
Re: Free will or not? 207 Itatw70s 04-Nov-18 22:51
Re: Free will or not? 171 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 00:02
Re: Free will or not? 154 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 03:19
Re: Free will or not? 158 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 04:01
Re: Free will or not? 154 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 05:01
Re: Free will or not? 152 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 05:10
Re: Free will or not? 142 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 05:25
Re: Free will or not? 151 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 06:18
The chocolate made me do it 145 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 07:35
Re: The chocolate made me do it 143 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 08:00
Re: The chocolate made me do it 145 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 09:18
Re: The chocolate made me do it 158 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 10:00
Re: The chocolate made me do it 154 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 12:18
Re: The chocolate made me do it 134 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 12:57
Re: The chocolate made me do it, but did not make me think! 139 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:25
Re: The chocolate made me do it 145 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 15:05
Security and randomness 145 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 08:19
Re: Security and randomness 136 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 12:51
Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 143 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 11:40
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 143 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 12:22
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 147 Itatw70s 05-Nov-18 12:48
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 139 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:35
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 143 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 13:04
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 142 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 15:28
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 142 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 19:57
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 146 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 20:39
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 133 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 06:21
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 138 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 09:19
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 138 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 10:37
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 137 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 14:09
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 138 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 14:23
scientific vs. clinical perspective on consciousness 139 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 19:01
Various states of consciousness 139 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:32
Re: Various states of consciousness 145 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 00:37
Re: Various states of consciousness 138 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:11
Re: Various states of consciousness 135 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 06:11
Re: Various states of consciousness 135 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 07:28
Re: Various states of consciousness 147 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 08:28
you're totally lost here 141 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 08:55
Re: you're totally lost here 139 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 09:52
Re: you're totally lost here 137 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 12:02
Re: you're totally lost here 141 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 16:03
Keep the science out 148 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 18:25
Re: Various states of consciousness 142 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 08:58
Re: Various states of consciousness 135 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 10:14
Re: Various states of consciousness 141 Eddie Larry 07-Nov-18 19:04
Re: Various states of consciousness 132 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 21:18
Was Einstein a scientist? 131 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 21:55
Not a materialist 141 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 22:14
Re: Not a materialist 133 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:16
Butting in 137 drrayeye 08-Nov-18 06:24
Re: Not a materialist 130 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 02:30
Re: Not a materialist 131 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 05:58
Re: Not a materialist 129 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 07:19
Re: Various states of consciousness 137 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:13
Re: Various states of consciousness 137 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:08
Re: Various states of consciousness 138 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 02:17
Re: Various states of consciousness 136 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 06:07
Interpretations 141 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 07:23
Re: Various states of consciousness 153 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 07:32
Re: Various states of consciousness 136 Eddie Larry 08-Nov-18 18:26
Re: Various states of consciousness 126 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:16
Re: Various states of consciousness 130 Eddie Larry 09-Nov-18 23:57
May the force be with you! 136 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 01:57
Re: May the force be with you! 136 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 02:20
Re: May the force be with you! 142 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 04:10
Re: May the force be with you! 135 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 14:10
Re: May the force be with you! 131 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 20:26
Re: Various states of consciousness 144 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 08:15
Religious leaders and others 134 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 09:55
Re: Religious leaders and others 139 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 12:04
Pathological disbeliever 144 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 20:32
Re: Pathological disbeliever 135 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:01
Re: Various states of consciousness 140 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 14:27
Whose fault? 137 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 21:00
Re: Whose fault? 133 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 21:12
Re: Whose fault? 141 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:05
Re: Whose fault? 136 greengirl5 11-Nov-18 06:38
Re: Whose fault? 138 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 07:14
Susan's sociological theory of religions 127 drrayeye 10-Nov-18 19:10
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 135 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 20:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 134 drrayeye 11-Nov-18 02:16
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 131 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 135 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 12:46
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 125 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 03:54
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 124 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 06:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 131 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 04:11
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 135 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 06:29
Maybe a cheer leader for science 128 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 08:34
"T of E" vs. "t of e"? 129 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 08:41
N R F 137 greengirl5 13-Nov-18 09:28
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 140 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 17:59
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 131 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 20:16
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 231 Susan Doris 14-Nov-18 02:16
Superstitious behavior 136 drrayeye 08-Nov-18 20:40
Re: Superstitious behavior 133 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 20:53
Re: Superstitious behavior 134 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:30
another day--another rant. 132 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 09:15
Re: another day--another rant. 138 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 11:11
Free will 126 drrayeye 10-Nov-18 08:20
Superstitions 118 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 20:48
Re: Various states of consciousness 124 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 20:49
Re: Various states of consciousness 133 Eddie Larry 08-Nov-18 04:08
You're not following 146 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 08:47
Re: Free will or not? 147 Jock 06-Nov-18 17:00
Re: Free will or not? 150 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 18:04
Re: Free will or not? 138 Jock 08-Nov-18 21:38
Re: Free will or not? 138 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:41
Re: Free will or not? 128 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 07:32
Re: Free will or not? 141 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 07:48
Completely off the wall 132 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 13:01
Re: Completely off the wall 139 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 13:56
Re: Completely off the wall 126 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 18:00
Re: Completely off the wall 136 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 18:31
Re: Completely off the wall 139 Jock 09-Nov-18 20:11
Contumelious 131 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:29
Re: Completely off the wall 135 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 08:25
Re: Completely off the wall 129 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:17
Re-education 129 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:08
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 158 M. J. Thomas 05-Nov-18 14:45
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 160 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 15:46
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 148 M. J. Thomas 06-Nov-18 10:43
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 143 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 14:13
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 140 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 14:28
So what is God to you? 143 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:47
Re: So what is God to you? 151 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 00:48
Re: So what is God to you? 138 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:21
Re: So what is God to you? 143 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 01:38
Re: So what is God to you? 137 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 02:07
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 155 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 20:04
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 152 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:51
Me too! 144 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:47
No-Name freedom.... 155 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 01:12
The way 153 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 02:19
Re: Free will or not? 156 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 12:25
Re: Free will or not? 148 Eddie Larry 06-Nov-18 14:34
Re: Free will or not? 144 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 16:42
Way to go! 147 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:52
The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 157 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 00:41
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 159 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:24
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 162 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 12:40
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 165 Enigcom 07-Nov-18 16:15
Re: Free will or not? 169 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 20:55
Re: Free will or not? 137 Enigcom 11-Nov-18 22:10
Re: Free will or not? 148 wilpsy3 10-Nov-18 21:39


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