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You can go after the priests etc. as much as you like, with my blessing. However, ordinary people know there is something bigger than our brains. Too bad you hang on to your brain alone. It seems a bit out of touch.
Not all church leaders are bad either. I just read about a Danish minister who in the olden days, not sure when, thundered against certain customs which included horrendous animal cruelty.

GG.



Susan Doris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote

Actually Susan, I think that what ancient
> people decided was that there were forces of
> Nature that did NOT do what people wanted. Like
> volcanoes, storms, earthquakes etc. We call them,
> even today, forces of nature. They can still
> destroy us and our plans.
> On what basis do you think they did not
> anthropomorphise these forces of nature?? Do you
> think they realised they were natural forces of
> nature? If that was the case, why do you think
> that people, as they became more stable and were
> surviving more successfully, made that natural
> system into a more and more complicated system of
> worshipping the gods/spirits that they imagined,
> and told people, were behind them?
> They worked to placate them, built places for
> these forces to be worshipped. If, right from that
> logical start, they knew they were exploiting the
> people with their apparent power to intercede with
> whatever gods they had invented, that makes
> religions and their leaders an unhelpful way of
> living – I was going to say, ‘a blight’ but
> that is too derogatory a term - on society for
> more like a million years rather than tens of
> thousands I think, don’t you?
> If ancient people went from understanding that
> natural events were just that – natural, it
> would have been a backward step, evolutionarily if
> nothing else, to thentreat them as
> gods/spirits/etc.
>
Quote

I suggest that what was superstitious was
> thinking people could do things which avert these
> natural processes.
> Well, yes, that is what superstition is, isn’t
> it?! :) To say that religious beliefs are not
> superstitions doesn’t hold water. If you believe
> they are different, can you explain why?
>
Quote

So I take it now that “alternative
> superstition “ simply means ancient
> superstitions or Susan’s interpretation of
> ancient superstitions.
> No, I’ll make it clear – ancient superstitions
> were understandable; alternative superstitions
> that followed and continue today, were and are
> religious beliefs, with supposed gods or spirits
> as their focus.
>
Quote

In terms of your last two sentences, I
> think that modern religions have already handled
> the issues of ancient or original superstitions
> quite well. God for modern religions is really
> tied to the concept of good or goodness.
> Especially, a lifestyle based on love of life and
> reciprocity towards one’s neighbors.
> That, as we have learnt from evolutionary studies,
> is a vital survival trait. As long as it continues
> to be passed on, the human race will continue to
> survive, in spite of the unevidenced ideas of
> many, whether they are meant in as kind and good a
> manner or not. Religious leaders are so deeply
> embedded and involved in the necessity for
> perpetuating these faith beliefs that I suppose
> enough of them work for the good of the people for
> them to be supported until such time as they
> become a minority view. I shake my head sadly that
> there are still such vast numbers who can
> inculcate, indoctrinate, teach as truth, etc daft
> beliefs like people flying on winged horses,
> angels with wings, resurrections of people who
> then rise – whyrise? We know enough about the
> Earth, galaxies and the universe to understand
> what is above us” – into some mythical
> heaven.
>
Quote

Now the notion that ‘god is beyond space
> and time’ was a later notion based on
>
Doesn’t matter what it was based on –
> it is a false idea which gets religious leaders
> out of the hole they are in.
> I will also say that as far as I’m concerned,
> the CofE, shaky as it is, provides the background
> stability needed by humans and should stay until
> something more able to form that background
> becomes available.
>
Quote

You know Susan, god does not have to be
> interpreted as a “supernatural
> existent”
> Of course, there is no obligation, ;ought or
> should to do that. Why do you think it should? For
> one thing, as I might have mentioned occasionally,
> there is zero evidence for any godd/spirit/etc
> existing other than as an idea in human brains.
>
Quote

and , if so, then you don’t have an
> argument at all. I can only suggest being careful
> with the argument of supernatural reality.
>
> You’ll have to explain that – I can’t see
> what you mean.
>
Quote

It works both ways. IMO, of course.
>
> What does?!! And How?
>
Quote

My definition is simple, god is the word
> people use to name the meaning they find in life.
> Not “supernatural “ at all.
> If that were true, then there would be a cessation
> of people killing others because of the others’
> beliefs. And, of course, the word God would lose
> its authority because the religious leaders
> claiming its existence would be shown to be
> spreading falsehoods.
>
Quote

Hope this helps!
> I don’t know about that, but it has made a very
> interesting start to my Saturday! Thank you.
>
> Susan

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Free will or not? 1195 greengirl5 04-Nov-18 21:54
Re: Free will or not? 240 Itatw70s 04-Nov-18 22:51
Re: Free will or not? 204 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 00:02
Re: Free will or not? 187 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 03:19
Re: Free will or not? 178 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 04:01
Re: Free will or not? 178 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 05:01
Re: Free will or not? 180 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 05:10
Re: Free will or not? 168 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 05:25
Re: Free will or not? 181 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 06:18
The chocolate made me do it 161 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 07:35
Re: The chocolate made me do it 166 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 08:00
Re: The chocolate made me do it 182 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 09:18
Re: The chocolate made me do it 182 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 10:00
Re: The chocolate made me do it 178 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 12:18
Re: The chocolate made me do it 157 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 12:57
Re: The chocolate made me do it, but did not make me think! 165 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:25
Re: The chocolate made me do it 177 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 15:05
Security and randomness 170 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 08:19
Re: Security and randomness 159 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 12:51
Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 167 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 11:40
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 164 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 12:22
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 169 Itatw70s 05-Nov-18 12:48
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 168 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:35
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 164 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 13:04
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 160 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 15:28
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 159 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 19:57
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 173 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 20:39
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 154 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 06:21
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 172 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 09:19
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 165 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 10:37
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 159 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 14:09
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 163 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 14:23
scientific vs. clinical perspective on consciousness 162 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 19:01
Various states of consciousness 161 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:32
Re: Various states of consciousness 168 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 00:37
Re: Various states of consciousness 168 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:11
Re: Various states of consciousness 162 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 06:11
Re: Various states of consciousness 173 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 07:28
Re: Various states of consciousness 169 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 08:28
you're totally lost here 164 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 08:55
Re: you're totally lost here 165 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 09:52
Re: you're totally lost here 165 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 12:02
Re: you're totally lost here 167 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 16:03
Keep the science out 191 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 18:25
Re: Various states of consciousness 175 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 08:58
Re: Various states of consciousness 172 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 10:14
Re: Various states of consciousness 166 Eddie Larry 07-Nov-18 19:04
Re: Various states of consciousness 166 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 21:18
Was Einstein a scientist? 163 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 21:55
Not a materialist 169 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 22:14
Re: Not a materialist 158 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:16
Butting in 160 drrayeye 08-Nov-18 06:24
Re: Not a materialist 166 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 02:30
Re: Not a materialist 160 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 05:58
Re: Not a materialist 147 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 07:19
Re: Various states of consciousness 172 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:13
Re: Various states of consciousness 160 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:08
Re: Various states of consciousness 162 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 02:17
Re: Various states of consciousness 172 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 06:07
Interpretations 168 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 07:23
Re: Various states of consciousness 193 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 07:32
Re: Various states of consciousness 193 Eddie Larry 08-Nov-18 18:26
Re: Various states of consciousness 151 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:16
Re: Various states of consciousness 157 Eddie Larry 09-Nov-18 23:57
May the force be with you! 164 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 01:57
Re: May the force be with you! 158 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 02:20
Re: May the force be with you! 164 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 04:10
Re: May the force be with you! 164 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 14:10
Re: May the force be with you! 155 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 20:26
Re: Various states of consciousness 180 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 08:15
Religious leaders and others 155 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 09:55
Re: Religious leaders and others 180 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 12:04
Pathological disbeliever 170 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 20:32
Re: Pathological disbeliever 168 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:01
Re: Various states of consciousness 162 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 14:27
Whose fault? 156 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 21:00
Re: Whose fault? 169 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 21:12
Re: Whose fault? 159 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:05
Re: Whose fault? 171 greengirl5 11-Nov-18 06:38
Re: Whose fault? 174 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 07:14
Susan's sociological theory of religions 154 drrayeye 10-Nov-18 19:10
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 172 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 20:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 155 drrayeye 11-Nov-18 02:16
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 154 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 159 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 12:46
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 152 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 03:54
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 150 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 06:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 149 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 04:11
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 164 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 06:29
Maybe a cheer leader for science 161 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 08:34
"T of E" vs. "t of e"? 153 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 08:41
N R F 157 greengirl5 13-Nov-18 09:28
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 162 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 17:59
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 150 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 20:16
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 293 Susan Doris 14-Nov-18 02:16
Superstitious behavior 168 drrayeye 08-Nov-18 20:40
Re: Superstitious behavior 151 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 20:53
Re: Superstitious behavior 164 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:30
another day--another rant. 157 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 09:15
Re: another day--another rant. 167 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 11:11
Free will 143 drrayeye 10-Nov-18 08:20
Superstitions 132 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 20:48
Re: Various states of consciousness 145 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 20:49
Re: Various states of consciousness 146 Eddie Larry 08-Nov-18 04:08
You're not following 173 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 08:47
Re: Free will or not? 166 Jock 06-Nov-18 17:00
Re: Free will or not? 185 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 18:04
Re: Free will or not? 158 Jock 08-Nov-18 21:38
Re: Free will or not? 170 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:41
Re: Free will or not? 150 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 07:32
Re: Free will or not? 160 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 07:48
Completely off the wall 150 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 13:01
Re: Completely off the wall 170 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 13:56
Re: Completely off the wall 156 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 18:00
Re: Completely off the wall 160 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 18:31
Re: Completely off the wall 175 Jock 09-Nov-18 20:11
Contumelious 151 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:29
Re: Completely off the wall 148 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 08:25
Re: Completely off the wall 161 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:17
Re-education 162 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:08
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 191 M. J. Thomas 05-Nov-18 14:45
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 192 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 15:46
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 179 M. J. Thomas 06-Nov-18 10:43
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 161 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 14:13
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 179 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 14:28
So what is God to you? 163 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:47
Re: So what is God to you? 180 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 00:48
Re: So what is God to you? 156 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:21
Re: So what is God to you? 172 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 01:38
Re: So what is God to you? 162 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 02:07
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 187 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 20:04
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 173 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:51
Me too! 176 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:47
No-Name freedom.... 174 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 01:12
The way 173 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 02:19
Re: Free will or not? 179 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 12:25
Re: Free will or not? 183 Eddie Larry 06-Nov-18 14:34
Re: Free will or not? 170 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 16:42
Way to go! 171 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:52
The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 177 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 00:41
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 199 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:24
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 199 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 12:40
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 189 Enigcom 07-Nov-18 16:15
Re: Free will or not? 194 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 20:55
Re: Free will or not? 160 Enigcom 11-Nov-18 22:10
Re: Free will or not? 163 wilpsy3 10-Nov-18 21:39


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