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You can go after the priests etc. as much as you like, with my blessing. However, ordinary people know there is something bigger than our brains. Too bad you hang on to your brain alone. It seems a bit out of touch.
Not all church leaders are bad either. I just read about a Danish minister who in the olden days, not sure when, thundered against certain customs which included horrendous animal cruelty.

GG.



Susan Doris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote

Actually Susan, I think that what ancient
> people decided was that there were forces of
> Nature that did NOT do what people wanted. Like
> volcanoes, storms, earthquakes etc. We call them,
> even today, forces of nature. They can still
> destroy us and our plans.
> On what basis do you think they did not
> anthropomorphise these forces of nature?? Do you
> think they realised they were natural forces of
> nature? If that was the case, why do you think
> that people, as they became more stable and were
> surviving more successfully, made that natural
> system into a more and more complicated system of
> worshipping the gods/spirits that they imagined,
> and told people, were behind them?
> They worked to placate them, built places for
> these forces to be worshipped. If, right from that
> logical start, they knew they were exploiting the
> people with their apparent power to intercede with
> whatever gods they had invented, that makes
> religions and their leaders an unhelpful way of
> living – I was going to say, ‘a blight’ but
> that is too derogatory a term - on society for
> more like a million years rather than tens of
> thousands I think, don’t you?
> If ancient people went from understanding that
> natural events were just that – natural, it
> would have been a backward step, evolutionarily if
> nothing else, to thentreat them as
> gods/spirits/etc.
>
Quote

I suggest that what was superstitious was
> thinking people could do things which avert these
> natural processes.
> Well, yes, that is what superstition is, isn’t
> it?! :) To say that religious beliefs are not
> superstitions doesn’t hold water. If you believe
> they are different, can you explain why?
>
Quote

So I take it now that “alternative
> superstition “ simply means ancient
> superstitions or Susan’s interpretation of
> ancient superstitions.
> No, I’ll make it clear – ancient superstitions
> were understandable; alternative superstitions
> that followed and continue today, were and are
> religious beliefs, with supposed gods or spirits
> as their focus.
>
Quote

In terms of your last two sentences, I
> think that modern religions have already handled
> the issues of ancient or original superstitions
> quite well. God for modern religions is really
> tied to the concept of good or goodness.
> Especially, a lifestyle based on love of life and
> reciprocity towards one’s neighbors.
> That, as we have learnt from evolutionary studies,
> is a vital survival trait. As long as it continues
> to be passed on, the human race will continue to
> survive, in spite of the unevidenced ideas of
> many, whether they are meant in as kind and good a
> manner or not. Religious leaders are so deeply
> embedded and involved in the necessity for
> perpetuating these faith beliefs that I suppose
> enough of them work for the good of the people for
> them to be supported until such time as they
> become a minority view. I shake my head sadly that
> there are still such vast numbers who can
> inculcate, indoctrinate, teach as truth, etc daft
> beliefs like people flying on winged horses,
> angels with wings, resurrections of people who
> then rise – whyrise? We know enough about the
> Earth, galaxies and the universe to understand
> what is above us” – into some mythical
> heaven.
>
Quote

Now the notion that ‘god is beyond space
> and time’ was a later notion based on
>
Doesn’t matter what it was based on –
> it is a false idea which gets religious leaders
> out of the hole they are in.
> I will also say that as far as I’m concerned,
> the CofE, shaky as it is, provides the background
> stability needed by humans and should stay until
> something more able to form that background
> becomes available.
>
Quote

You know Susan, god does not have to be
> interpreted as a “supernatural
> existent”
> Of course, there is no obligation, ;ought or
> should to do that. Why do you think it should? For
> one thing, as I might have mentioned occasionally,
> there is zero evidence for any godd/spirit/etc
> existing other than as an idea in human brains.
>
Quote

and , if so, then you don’t have an
> argument at all. I can only suggest being careful
> with the argument of supernatural reality.
>
> You’ll have to explain that – I can’t see
> what you mean.
>
Quote

It works both ways. IMO, of course.
>
> What does?!! And How?
>
Quote

My definition is simple, god is the word
> people use to name the meaning they find in life.
> Not “supernatural “ at all.
> If that were true, then there would be a cessation
> of people killing others because of the others’
> beliefs. And, of course, the word God would lose
> its authority because the religious leaders
> claiming its existence would be shown to be
> spreading falsehoods.
>
Quote

Hope this helps!
> I don’t know about that, but it has made a very
> interesting start to my Saturday! Thank you.
>
> Susan

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Free will or not? 1267 greengirl5 04-Nov-18 21:54
Re: Free will or not? 271 Itatw70s 04-Nov-18 22:51
Re: Free will or not? 239 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 00:02
Re: Free will or not? 211 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 03:19
Re: Free will or not? 203 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 04:01
Re: Free will or not? 199 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 05:01
Re: Free will or not? 201 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 05:10
Re: Free will or not? 194 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 05:25
Re: Free will or not? 204 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 06:18
The chocolate made me do it 182 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 07:35
Re: The chocolate made me do it 190 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 08:00
Re: The chocolate made me do it 209 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 09:18
Re: The chocolate made me do it 219 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 10:00
Re: The chocolate made me do it 204 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 12:18
Re: The chocolate made me do it 176 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 12:57
Re: The chocolate made me do it, but did not make me think! 199 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:25
Re: The chocolate made me do it 217 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 15:05
Security and randomness 196 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 08:19
Re: Security and randomness 185 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 12:51
Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 186 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 11:40
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 188 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 12:22
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 190 Itatw70s 05-Nov-18 12:48
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 194 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:35
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 186 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 13:04
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 180 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 15:28
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 182 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 19:57
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 200 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 20:39
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 175 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 06:21
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 207 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 09:19
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 188 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 10:37
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 181 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 14:09
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 198 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 14:23
scientific vs. clinical perspective on consciousness 184 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 19:01
Various states of consciousness 184 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:32
Re: Various states of consciousness 190 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 00:37
Re: Various states of consciousness 193 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:11
Re: Various states of consciousness 184 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 06:11
Re: Various states of consciousness 199 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 07:28
Re: Various states of consciousness 194 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 08:28
you're totally lost here 190 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 08:55
Re: you're totally lost here 188 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 09:52
Re: you're totally lost here 192 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 12:02
Re: you're totally lost here 192 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 16:03
Keep the science out 223 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 18:25
Re: Various states of consciousness 197 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 08:58
Re: Various states of consciousness 199 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 10:14
Re: Various states of consciousness 192 Eddie Larry 07-Nov-18 19:04
Re: Various states of consciousness 186 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 21:18
Was Einstein a scientist? 186 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 21:55
Not a materialist 190 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 22:14
Re: Not a materialist 177 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:16
Butting in 184 drrayeye 08-Nov-18 06:24
Re: Not a materialist 188 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 02:30
Re: Not a materialist 182 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 05:58
Re: Not a materialist 168 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 07:19
Re: Various states of consciousness 196 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:13
Re: Various states of consciousness 181 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:08
Re: Various states of consciousness 184 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 02:17
Re: Various states of consciousness 193 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 06:07
Interpretations 192 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 07:23
Re: Various states of consciousness 218 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 07:32
Re: Various states of consciousness 217 Eddie Larry 08-Nov-18 18:26
Re: Various states of consciousness 181 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:16
Re: Various states of consciousness 183 Eddie Larry 09-Nov-18 23:57
May the force be with you! 201 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 01:57
Re: May the force be with you! 193 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 02:20
Re: May the force be with you! 190 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 04:10
Re: May the force be with you! 194 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 14:10
Re: May the force be with you! 184 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 20:26
Re: Various states of consciousness 209 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 08:15
Religious leaders and others 184 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 09:55
Re: Religious leaders and others 208 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 12:04
Pathological disbeliever 196 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 20:32
Re: Pathological disbeliever 195 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:01
Re: Various states of consciousness 187 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 14:27
Whose fault? 182 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 21:00
Re: Whose fault? 198 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 21:12
Re: Whose fault? 185 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:05
Re: Whose fault? 197 greengirl5 11-Nov-18 06:38
Re: Whose fault? 196 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 07:14
Susan's sociological theory of religions 181 drrayeye 10-Nov-18 19:10
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 204 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 20:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 178 drrayeye 11-Nov-18 02:16
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 187 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 184 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 12:46
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 175 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 03:54
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 177 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 06:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 170 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 04:11
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 195 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 06:29
Maybe a cheer leader for science 182 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 08:34
"T of E" vs. "t of e"? 176 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 08:41
N R F 178 greengirl5 13-Nov-18 09:28
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 186 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 17:59
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 170 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 20:16
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 321 Susan Doris 14-Nov-18 02:16
Superstitious behavior 188 drrayeye 08-Nov-18 20:40
Re: Superstitious behavior 171 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 20:53
Re: Superstitious behavior 195 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:30
another day--another rant. 177 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 09:15
Re: another day--another rant. 192 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 11:11
Free will 172 drrayeye 10-Nov-18 08:20
Superstitions 151 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 20:48
Re: Various states of consciousness 164 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 20:49
Re: Various states of consciousness 171 Eddie Larry 08-Nov-18 04:08
You're not following 192 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 08:47
Re: Free will or not? 188 Jock 06-Nov-18 17:00
Re: Free will or not? 207 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 18:04
Re: Free will or not? 201 Jock 08-Nov-18 21:38
Re: Free will or not? 195 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:41
Re: Free will or not? 168 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 07:32
Re: Free will or not? 183 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 07:48
Completely off the wall 171 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 13:01
Re: Completely off the wall 206 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 13:56
Re: Completely off the wall 176 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 18:00
Re: Completely off the wall 185 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 18:31
Re: Completely off the wall 198 Jock 09-Nov-18 20:11
Contumelious 170 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:29
Re: Completely off the wall 172 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 08:25
Re: Completely off the wall 183 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:17
Re-education 189 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:08
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 235 M. J. Thomas 05-Nov-18 14:45
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 218 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 15:46
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 219 M. J. Thomas 06-Nov-18 10:43
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 182 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 14:13
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 201 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 14:28
So what is God to you? 184 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:47
Re: So what is God to you? 202 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 00:48
Re: So what is God to you? 179 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:21
Re: So what is God to you? 192 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 01:38
Re: So what is God to you? 183 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 02:07
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 212 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 20:04
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 193 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:51
Me too! 199 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:47
No-Name freedom.... 193 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 01:12
The way 195 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 02:19
Re: Free will or not? 202 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 12:25
Re: Free will or not? 204 Eddie Larry 06-Nov-18 14:34
Re: Free will or not? 193 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 16:42
Way to go! 195 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:52
The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 196 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 00:41
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 226 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:24
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 221 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 12:40
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 210 Enigcom 07-Nov-18 16:15
Re: Free will or not? 216 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 20:55
Re: Free will or not? 185 Enigcom 11-Nov-18 22:10
Re: Free will or not? 189 wilpsy3 10-Nov-18 21:39


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