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Actually Susan, I think that what ancient people decided was that there were forces of Nature that did NOT do what people wanted. Like volcanoes, storms, earthquakes etc. We call them, even today, forces of nature. They can still destroy us and our plans.
On what basis do you think they did not anthropomorphise these forces of nature?? Do you think they realised they were natural forces of nature? If that was the case, why do you think that people, as they became more stable and were surviving more successfully, made that natural system into a more and more complicated system of worshipping the gods/spirits that they imagined, and told people, were behind them?
They worked to placate them, built places for these forces to be worshipped. If, right from that logical start, they knew they were exploiting the people with their apparent power to intercede with whatever gods they had invented, that makes religions and their leaders an unhelpful way of living – I was going to say, ‘a blight’ but that is too derogatory a term - on society for more like a million years rather than tens of thousands I think, don’t you?
If ancient people went from understanding that natural events were just that – natural, it would have been a backward step, evolutionarily if nothing else, to thentreat them as gods/spirits/etc.
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I suggest that what was superstitious was thinking people could do things which avert these natural processes.
Well, yes, that is what superstition is, isn’t it?! :) To say that religious beliefs are not superstitions doesn’t hold water. If you believe they are different, can you explain why?
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So I take it now that “alternative superstition “ simply means ancient superstitions or Susan’s interpretation of ancient superstitions.
No, I’ll make it clear – ancient superstitions were understandable; alternative superstitions that followed and continue today, were and are religious beliefs, with supposed gods or spirits as their focus.
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In terms of your last two sentences, I think that modern religions have already handled the issues of ancient or original superstitions quite well. God for modern religions is really tied to the concept of good or goodness. Especially, a lifestyle based on love of life and reciprocity towards one’s neighbors.
That, as we have learnt from evolutionary studies, is a vital survival trait. As long as it continues to be passed on, the human race will continue to survive, in spite of the unevidenced ideas of many, whether they are meant in as kind and good a manner or not. Religious leaders are so deeply embedded and involved in the necessity for perpetuating these faith beliefs that I suppose enough of them work for the good of the people for them to be supported until such time as they become a minority view. I shake my head sadly that there are still such vast numbers who can inculcate, indoctrinate, teach as truth, etc daft beliefs like people flying on winged horses, angels with wings, resurrections of people who then rise – whyrise? We know enough about the Earth, galaxies and the universe to understand what is above us” – into some mythical heaven.
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Now the notion that ‘god is beyond space and time’ was a later notion based on
Doesn’t matter what it was based on – it is a false idea which gets religious leaders out of the hole they are in.
I will also say that as far as I’m concerned, the CofE, shaky as it is, provides the background stability needed by humans and should stay until something more able to form that background becomes available.
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You know Susan, god does not have to be interpreted as a “supernatural existent”
Of course, there is no obligation, ;ought or should to do that. Why do you think it should? For one thing, as I might have mentioned occasionally, there is zero evidence for any godd/spirit/etc existing other than as an idea in human brains.
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and , if so, then you don’t have an argument at all. I can only suggest being careful with the argument of supernatural reality.
You’ll have to explain that – I can’t see what you mean.
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It works both ways. IMO, of course.
What does?!! And How?
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My definition is simple, god is the word people use to name the meaning they find in life. Not “supernatural “ at all.
If that were true, then there would be a cessation of people killing others because of the others’ beliefs. And, of course, the word God would lose its authority because the religious leaders claiming its existence would be shown to be spreading falsehoods.
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Hope this helps!
I don’t know about that, but it has made a very interesting start to my Saturday! Thank you.

Susan

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Free will or not? 1245 greengirl5 04-Nov-18 21:54
Re: Free will or not? 263 Itatw70s 04-Nov-18 22:51
Re: Free will or not? 226 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 00:02
Re: Free will or not? 202 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 03:19
Re: Free will or not? 196 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 04:01
Re: Free will or not? 193 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 05:01
Re: Free will or not? 194 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 05:10
Re: Free will or not? 188 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 05:25
Re: Free will or not? 198 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 06:18
The chocolate made me do it 176 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 07:35
Re: The chocolate made me do it 185 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 08:00
Re: The chocolate made me do it 201 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 09:18
Re: The chocolate made me do it 210 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 10:00
Re: The chocolate made me do it 197 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 12:18
Re: The chocolate made me do it 172 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 12:57
Re: The chocolate made me do it, but did not make me think! 187 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:25
Re: The chocolate made me do it 209 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 15:05
Security and randomness 187 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 08:19
Re: Security and randomness 176 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 12:51
Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 180 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 11:40
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 181 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 12:22
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 185 Itatw70s 05-Nov-18 12:48
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 186 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:35
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 180 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 13:04
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 175 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 15:28
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 174 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 19:57
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 191 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 20:39
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 169 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 06:21
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 201 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 09:19
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 180 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 10:37
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 174 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 14:09
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 191 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 14:23
scientific vs. clinical perspective on consciousness 176 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 19:01
Various states of consciousness 177 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:32
Re: Various states of consciousness 183 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 00:37
Re: Various states of consciousness 185 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:11
Re: Various states of consciousness 178 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 06:11
Re: Various states of consciousness 191 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 07:28
Re: Various states of consciousness 187 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 08:28
you're totally lost here 183 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 08:55
Re: you're totally lost here 182 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 09:52
Re: you're totally lost here 184 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 12:02
Re: you're totally lost here 184 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 16:03
Keep the science out 214 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 18:25
Re: Various states of consciousness 192 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 08:58
Re: Various states of consciousness 192 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 10:14
Re: Various states of consciousness 184 Eddie Larry 07-Nov-18 19:04
Re: Various states of consciousness 181 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 21:18
Was Einstein a scientist? 181 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 21:55
Not a materialist 186 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 22:14
Re: Not a materialist 171 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:16
Butting in 178 drrayeye 08-Nov-18 06:24
Re: Not a materialist 182 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 02:30
Re: Not a materialist 177 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 05:58
Re: Not a materialist 163 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 07:19
Re: Various states of consciousness 190 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:13
Re: Various states of consciousness 176 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:08
Re: Various states of consciousness 178 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 02:17
Re: Various states of consciousness 188 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 06:07
Interpretations 188 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 07:23
Re: Various states of consciousness 213 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 07:32
Re: Various states of consciousness 212 Eddie Larry 08-Nov-18 18:26
Re: Various states of consciousness 172 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:16
Re: Various states of consciousness 174 Eddie Larry 09-Nov-18 23:57
May the force be with you! 193 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 01:57
Re: May the force be with you! 182 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 02:20
Re: May the force be with you! 182 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 04:10
Re: May the force be with you! 185 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 14:10
Re: May the force be with you! 175 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 20:26
Re: Various states of consciousness 198 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 08:15
Religious leaders and others 177 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 09:55
Re: Religious leaders and others 200 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 12:04
Pathological disbeliever 190 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 20:32
Re: Pathological disbeliever 188 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:01
Re: Various states of consciousness 180 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 14:27
Whose fault? 174 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 21:00
Re: Whose fault? 191 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 21:12
Re: Whose fault? 178 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:05
Re: Whose fault? 191 greengirl5 11-Nov-18 06:38
Re: Whose fault? 191 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 07:14
Susan's sociological theory of religions 173 drrayeye 10-Nov-18 19:10
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 198 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 20:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 170 drrayeye 11-Nov-18 02:16
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 180 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 176 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 12:46
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 167 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 03:54
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 167 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 06:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 164 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 04:11
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 187 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 06:29
Maybe a cheer leader for science 175 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 08:34
"T of E" vs. "t of e"? 168 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 08:41
N R F 173 greengirl5 13-Nov-18 09:28
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 180 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 17:59
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 166 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 20:16
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 315 Susan Doris 14-Nov-18 02:16
Superstitious behavior 183 drrayeye 08-Nov-18 20:40
Re: Superstitious behavior 165 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 20:53
Re: Superstitious behavior 188 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:30
another day--another rant. 172 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 09:15
Re: another day--another rant. 186 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 11:11
Free will 166 drrayeye 10-Nov-18 08:20
Superstitions 146 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 20:48
Re: Various states of consciousness 159 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 20:49
Re: Various states of consciousness 164 Eddie Larry 08-Nov-18 04:08
You're not following 187 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 08:47
Re: Free will or not? 182 Jock 06-Nov-18 17:00
Re: Free will or not? 201 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 18:04
Re: Free will or not? 190 Jock 08-Nov-18 21:38
Re: Free will or not? 190 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:41
Re: Free will or not? 162 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 07:32
Re: Free will or not? 177 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 07:48
Completely off the wall 166 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 13:01
Re: Completely off the wall 201 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 13:56
Re: Completely off the wall 170 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 18:00
Re: Completely off the wall 179 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 18:31
Re: Completely off the wall 193 Jock 09-Nov-18 20:11
Contumelious 165 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:29
Re: Completely off the wall 166 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 08:25
Re: Completely off the wall 178 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:17
Re-education 182 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:08
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 220 M. J. Thomas 05-Nov-18 14:45
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 209 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 15:46
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 206 M. J. Thomas 06-Nov-18 10:43
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 177 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 14:13
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 194 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 14:28
So what is God to you? 177 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:47
Re: So what is God to you? 193 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 00:48
Re: So what is God to you? 172 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:21
Re: So what is God to you? 186 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 01:38
Re: So what is God to you? 177 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 02:07
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 202 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 20:04
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 187 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:51
Me too! 193 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:47
No-Name freedom.... 188 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 01:12
The way 190 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 02:19
Re: Free will or not? 196 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 12:25
Re: Free will or not? 198 Eddie Larry 06-Nov-18 14:34
Re: Free will or not? 188 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 16:42
Way to go! 188 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:52
The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 191 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 00:41
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 217 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:24
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 216 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 12:40
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 203 Enigcom 07-Nov-18 16:15
Re: Free will or not? 208 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 20:55
Re: Free will or not? 174 Enigcom 11-Nov-18 22:10
Re: Free will or not? 183 wilpsy3 10-Nov-18 21:39


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