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Actually Susan, I think that what ancient people decided was that there were forces of Nature that did NOT do what people wanted. Like volcanoes, storms, earthquakes etc. We call them, even today, forces of nature. They can still destroy us and our plans.
On what basis do you think they did not anthropomorphise these forces of nature?? Do you think they realised they were natural forces of nature? If that was the case, why do you think that people, as they became more stable and were surviving more successfully, made that natural system into a more and more complicated system of worshipping the gods/spirits that they imagined, and told people, were behind them?
They worked to placate them, built places for these forces to be worshipped. If, right from that logical start, they knew they were exploiting the people with their apparent power to intercede with whatever gods they had invented, that makes religions and their leaders an unhelpful way of living – I was going to say, ‘a blight’ but that is too derogatory a term - on society for more like a million years rather than tens of thousands I think, don’t you?
If ancient people went from understanding that natural events were just that – natural, it would have been a backward step, evolutionarily if nothing else, to thentreat them as gods/spirits/etc.
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I suggest that what was superstitious was thinking people could do things which avert these natural processes.
Well, yes, that is what superstition is, isn’t it?! :) To say that religious beliefs are not superstitions doesn’t hold water. If you believe they are different, can you explain why?
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So I take it now that “alternative superstition “ simply means ancient superstitions or Susan’s interpretation of ancient superstitions.
No, I’ll make it clear – ancient superstitions were understandable; alternative superstitions that followed and continue today, were and are religious beliefs, with supposed gods or spirits as their focus.
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In terms of your last two sentences, I think that modern religions have already handled the issues of ancient or original superstitions quite well. God for modern religions is really tied to the concept of good or goodness. Especially, a lifestyle based on love of life and reciprocity towards one’s neighbors.
That, as we have learnt from evolutionary studies, is a vital survival trait. As long as it continues to be passed on, the human race will continue to survive, in spite of the unevidenced ideas of many, whether they are meant in as kind and good a manner or not. Religious leaders are so deeply embedded and involved in the necessity for perpetuating these faith beliefs that I suppose enough of them work for the good of the people for them to be supported until such time as they become a minority view. I shake my head sadly that there are still such vast numbers who can inculcate, indoctrinate, teach as truth, etc daft beliefs like people flying on winged horses, angels with wings, resurrections of people who then rise – whyrise? We know enough about the Earth, galaxies and the universe to understand what is above us” – into some mythical heaven.
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Now the notion that ‘god is beyond space and time’ was a later notion based on
Doesn’t matter what it was based on – it is a false idea which gets religious leaders out of the hole they are in.
I will also say that as far as I’m concerned, the CofE, shaky as it is, provides the background stability needed by humans and should stay until something more able to form that background becomes available.
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You know Susan, god does not have to be interpreted as a “supernatural existent”
Of course, there is no obligation, ;ought or should to do that. Why do you think it should? For one thing, as I might have mentioned occasionally, there is zero evidence for any godd/spirit/etc existing other than as an idea in human brains.
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and , if so, then you don’t have an argument at all. I can only suggest being careful with the argument of supernatural reality.
You’ll have to explain that – I can’t see what you mean.
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It works both ways. IMO, of course.
What does?!! And How?
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My definition is simple, god is the word people use to name the meaning they find in life. Not “supernatural “ at all.
If that were true, then there would be a cessation of people killing others because of the others’ beliefs. And, of course, the word God would lose its authority because the religious leaders claiming its existence would be shown to be spreading falsehoods.
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Hope this helps!
I don’t know about that, but it has made a very interesting start to my Saturday! Thank you.

Susan

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Free will or not? 1050 greengirl5 04-Nov-18 21:54
Re: Free will or not? 192 Itatw70s 04-Nov-18 22:51
Re: Free will or not? 155 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 00:02
Re: Free will or not? 142 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 03:19
Re: Free will or not? 146 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 04:01
Re: Free will or not? 140 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 05:01
Re: Free will or not? 139 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 05:10
Re: Free will or not? 131 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 05:25
Re: Free will or not? 138 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 06:18
The chocolate made me do it 133 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 07:35
Re: The chocolate made me do it 131 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 08:00
Re: The chocolate made me do it 135 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 09:18
Re: The chocolate made me do it 145 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 10:00
Re: The chocolate made me do it 143 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 12:18
Re: The chocolate made me do it 122 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 12:57
Re: The chocolate made me do it, but did not make me think! 129 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:25
Re: The chocolate made me do it 133 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 15:05
Security and randomness 133 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 08:19
Re: Security and randomness 126 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 12:51
Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 131 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 11:40
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 130 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 12:22
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 136 Itatw70s 05-Nov-18 12:48
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 126 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:35
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 131 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 13:04
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 133 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 15:28
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 129 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 19:57
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 133 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 20:39
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 121 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 06:21
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 128 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 09:19
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 126 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 10:37
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 127 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 14:09
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 129 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 14:23
scientific vs. clinical perspective on consciousness 127 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 19:01
Various states of consciousness 127 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:32
Re: Various states of consciousness 136 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 00:37
Re: Various states of consciousness 128 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:11
Re: Various states of consciousness 124 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 06:11
Re: Various states of consciousness 127 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 07:28
Re: Various states of consciousness 138 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 08:28
you're totally lost here 131 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 08:55
Re: you're totally lost here 129 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 09:52
Re: you're totally lost here 126 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 12:02
Re: you're totally lost here 129 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 16:03
Keep the science out 134 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 18:25
Re: Various states of consciousness 131 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 08:58
Re: Various states of consciousness 125 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 10:14
Re: Various states of consciousness 130 Eddie Larry 07-Nov-18 19:04
Re: Various states of consciousness 121 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 21:18
Was Einstein a scientist? 120 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 21:55
Not a materialist 129 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 22:14
Re: Not a materialist 124 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:16
Butting in 123 drrayeye 08-Nov-18 06:24
Re: Not a materialist 121 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 02:30
Re: Not a materialist 118 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 05:58
Re: Not a materialist 118 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 07:19
Re: Various states of consciousness 124 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:13
Re: Various states of consciousness 126 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:08
Re: Various states of consciousness 125 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 02:17
Re: Various states of consciousness 125 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 06:07
Interpretations 131 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 07:23
Re: Various states of consciousness 142 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 07:32
Re: Various states of consciousness 123 Eddie Larry 08-Nov-18 18:26
Re: Various states of consciousness 116 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:16
Re: Various states of consciousness 118 Eddie Larry 09-Nov-18 23:57
May the force be with you! 120 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 01:57
Re: May the force be with you! 125 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 02:20
Re: May the force be with you! 124 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 04:10
Re: May the force be with you! 120 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 14:10
Re: May the force be with you! 119 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 20:26
Re: Various states of consciousness 128 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 08:15
Religious leaders and others 122 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 09:55
Re: Religious leaders and others 120 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 12:04
Pathological disbeliever 126 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 20:32
Re: Pathological disbeliever 122 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:01
Re: Various states of consciousness 128 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 14:27
Whose fault? 124 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 21:00
Re: Whose fault? 121 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 21:12
Re: Whose fault? 128 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:05
Re: Whose fault? 122 greengirl5 11-Nov-18 06:38
Re: Whose fault? 124 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 07:14
Susan's sociological theory of religions 112 drrayeye 10-Nov-18 19:10
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 123 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 20:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 123 drrayeye 11-Nov-18 02:16
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 120 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 122 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 12:46
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 112 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 03:54
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 112 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 06:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 118 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 04:11
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 122 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 06:29
Maybe a cheer leader for science 114 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 08:34
"T of E" vs. "t of e"? 119 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 08:41
N R F 123 greengirl5 13-Nov-18 09:28
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 125 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 17:59
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 118 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 20:16
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 212 Susan Doris 14-Nov-18 02:16
Superstitious behavior 126 drrayeye 08-Nov-18 20:40
Re: Superstitious behavior 120 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 20:53
Re: Superstitious behavior 120 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:30
another day--another rant. 119 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 09:15
Re: another day--another rant. 126 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 11:11
Free will 117 drrayeye 10-Nov-18 08:20
Superstitions 107 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 20:48
Re: Various states of consciousness 114 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 20:49
Re: Various states of consciousness 121 Eddie Larry 08-Nov-18 04:08
You're not following 134 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 08:47
Re: Free will or not? 134 Jock 06-Nov-18 17:00
Re: Free will or not? 137 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 18:04
Re: Free will or not? 124 Jock 08-Nov-18 21:38
Re: Free will or not? 126 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:41
Re: Free will or not? 114 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 07:32
Re: Free will or not? 127 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 07:48
Completely off the wall 121 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 13:01
Re: Completely off the wall 127 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 13:56
Re: Completely off the wall 116 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 18:00
Re: Completely off the wall 125 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 18:31
Re: Completely off the wall 129 Jock 09-Nov-18 20:11
Contumelious 120 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:29
Re: Completely off the wall 122 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 08:25
Re: Completely off the wall 117 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:17
Re-education 115 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:08
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 143 M. J. Thomas 05-Nov-18 14:45
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 146 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 15:46
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 132 M. J. Thomas 06-Nov-18 10:43
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 132 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 14:13
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 129 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 14:28
So what is God to you? 134 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:47
Re: So what is God to you? 136 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 00:48
Re: So what is God to you? 126 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:21
Re: So what is God to you? 133 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 01:38
Re: So what is God to you? 128 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 02:07
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 142 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 20:04
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 140 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:51
Me too! 133 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:47
No-Name freedom.... 143 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 01:12
The way 143 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 02:19
Re: Free will or not? 143 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 12:25
Re: Free will or not? 138 Eddie Larry 06-Nov-18 14:34
Re: Free will or not? 134 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 16:42
Way to go! 138 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:52
The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 147 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 00:41
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 150 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:24
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 148 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 12:40
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 156 Enigcom 07-Nov-18 16:15
Re: Free will or not? 160 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 20:55
Re: Free will or not? 124 Enigcom 11-Nov-18 22:10
Re: Free will or not? 134 wilpsy3 10-Nov-18 21:39


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