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Actually Susan, I think that what ancient people decided was that there were forces of Nature that did NOT do what people wanted. Like volcanoes, storms, earthquakes etc. We call them, even today, forces of nature. They can still destroy us and our plans.
On what basis do you think they did not anthropomorphise these forces of nature?? Do you think they realised they were natural forces of nature? If that was the case, why do you think that people, as they became more stable and were surviving more successfully, made that natural system into a more and more complicated system of worshipping the gods/spirits that they imagined, and told people, were behind them?
They worked to placate them, built places for these forces to be worshipped. If, right from that logical start, they knew they were exploiting the people with their apparent power to intercede with whatever gods they had invented, that makes religions and their leaders an unhelpful way of living – I was going to say, ‘a blight’ but that is too derogatory a term - on society for more like a million years rather than tens of thousands I think, don’t you?
If ancient people went from understanding that natural events were just that – natural, it would have been a backward step, evolutionarily if nothing else, to thentreat them as gods/spirits/etc.
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I suggest that what was superstitious was thinking people could do things which avert these natural processes.
Well, yes, that is what superstition is, isn’t it?! :) To say that religious beliefs are not superstitions doesn’t hold water. If you believe they are different, can you explain why?
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So I take it now that “alternative superstition “ simply means ancient superstitions or Susan’s interpretation of ancient superstitions.
No, I’ll make it clear – ancient superstitions were understandable; alternative superstitions that followed and continue today, were and are religious beliefs, with supposed gods or spirits as their focus.
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In terms of your last two sentences, I think that modern religions have already handled the issues of ancient or original superstitions quite well. God for modern religions is really tied to the concept of good or goodness. Especially, a lifestyle based on love of life and reciprocity towards one’s neighbors.
That, as we have learnt from evolutionary studies, is a vital survival trait. As long as it continues to be passed on, the human race will continue to survive, in spite of the unevidenced ideas of many, whether they are meant in as kind and good a manner or not. Religious leaders are so deeply embedded and involved in the necessity for perpetuating these faith beliefs that I suppose enough of them work for the good of the people for them to be supported until such time as they become a minority view. I shake my head sadly that there are still such vast numbers who can inculcate, indoctrinate, teach as truth, etc daft beliefs like people flying on winged horses, angels with wings, resurrections of people who then rise – whyrise? We know enough about the Earth, galaxies and the universe to understand what is above us” – into some mythical heaven.
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Now the notion that ‘god is beyond space and time’ was a later notion based on
Doesn’t matter what it was based on – it is a false idea which gets religious leaders out of the hole they are in.
I will also say that as far as I’m concerned, the CofE, shaky as it is, provides the background stability needed by humans and should stay until something more able to form that background becomes available.
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You know Susan, god does not have to be interpreted as a “supernatural existent”
Of course, there is no obligation, ;ought or should to do that. Why do you think it should? For one thing, as I might have mentioned occasionally, there is zero evidence for any godd/spirit/etc existing other than as an idea in human brains.
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and , if so, then you don’t have an argument at all. I can only suggest being careful with the argument of supernatural reality.
You’ll have to explain that – I can’t see what you mean.
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It works both ways. IMO, of course.
What does?!! And How?
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My definition is simple, god is the word people use to name the meaning they find in life. Not “supernatural “ at all.
If that were true, then there would be a cessation of people killing others because of the others’ beliefs. And, of course, the word God would lose its authority because the religious leaders claiming its existence would be shown to be spreading falsehoods.
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Hope this helps!
I don’t know about that, but it has made a very interesting start to my Saturday! Thank you.

Susan

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Free will or not? 837 greengirl5 04-Nov-18 21:54
Re: Free will or not? 94 Itatw70s 04-Nov-18 22:51
Re: Free will or not? 84 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 00:02
Re: Free will or not? 77 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 03:19
Re: Free will or not? 78 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 04:01
Re: Free will or not? 74 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 05:01
Re: Free will or not? 68 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 05:10
Re: Free will or not? 67 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 05:25
Re: Free will or not? 74 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 06:18
The chocolate made me do it 68 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 07:35
Re: The chocolate made me do it 69 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 08:00
Re: The chocolate made me do it 70 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 09:18
Re: The chocolate made me do it 72 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 10:00
Re: The chocolate made me do it 72 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 12:18
Re: The chocolate made me do it 60 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 12:57
Re: The chocolate made me do it, but did not make me think! 59 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:25
Re: The chocolate made me do it 63 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 15:05
Security and randomness 66 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 08:19
Re: Security and randomness 59 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 12:51
Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 67 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 11:40
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 66 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 12:22
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 68 Itatw70s 05-Nov-18 12:48
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 60 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:35
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 65 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 13:04
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 64 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 15:28
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 64 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 19:57
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 66 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 20:39
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 56 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 06:21
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 58 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 09:19
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 59 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 10:37
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 57 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 14:09
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 59 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 14:23
scientific vs. clinical perspective on consciousness 60 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 19:01
Various states of consciousness 62 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:32
Re: Various states of consciousness 64 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 00:37
Re: Various states of consciousness 59 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:11
Re: Various states of consciousness 60 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 06:11
Re: Various states of consciousness 60 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 07:28
Re: Various states of consciousness 68 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 08:28
you're totally lost here 62 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 08:55
Re: you're totally lost here 62 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 09:52
Re: you're totally lost here 62 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 12:02
Re: you're totally lost here 60 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 16:03
Keep the science out 63 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 18:25
Re: Various states of consciousness 64 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 08:58
Re: Various states of consciousness 58 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 10:14
Re: Various states of consciousness 61 Eddie Larry 07-Nov-18 19:04
Re: Various states of consciousness 56 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 21:18
Was Einstein a scientist? 54 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 21:55
Not a materialist 62 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 22:14
Re: Not a materialist 57 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:16
Butting in 56 drrayeye 08-Nov-18 06:24
Re: Not a materialist 56 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 02:30
Re: Not a materialist 54 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 05:58
Re: Not a materialist 54 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 07:19
Re: Various states of consciousness 56 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:13
Re: Various states of consciousness 60 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:08
Re: Various states of consciousness 57 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 02:17
Re: Various states of consciousness 57 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 06:07
Interpretations 62 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 07:23
Re: Various states of consciousness 67 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 07:32
Re: Various states of consciousness 55 Eddie Larry 08-Nov-18 18:26
Re: Various states of consciousness 50 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:16
Re: Various states of consciousness 52 Eddie Larry 09-Nov-18 23:57
May the force be with you! 54 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 01:57
Re: May the force be with you! 51 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 02:20
Re: May the force be with you! 55 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 04:10
Re: May the force be with you! 56 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 14:10
Re: May the force be with you! 51 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 20:26
Re: Various states of consciousness 57 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 08:15
Religious leaders and others 54 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 09:55
Re: Religious leaders and others 52 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 12:04
Pathological disbeliever 58 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 20:32
Re: Pathological disbeliever 57 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:01
Re: Various states of consciousness 61 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 14:27
Whose fault? 58 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 21:00
Re: Whose fault? 55 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 21:12
Re: Whose fault? 63 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:05
Re: Whose fault? 55 greengirl5 11-Nov-18 06:38
Re: Whose fault? 53 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 07:14
Susan's sociological theory of religions 50 drrayeye 10-Nov-18 19:10
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 52 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 20:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 54 drrayeye 11-Nov-18 02:16
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 54 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 58 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 12:46
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 49 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 03:54
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 49 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 06:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 55 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 04:11
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 53 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 06:29
Maybe a cheer leader for science 52 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 08:34
"T of E" vs. "t of e"? 56 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 08:41
N R F 58 greengirl5 13-Nov-18 09:28
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 54 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 17:59
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 54 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 20:16
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 95 Susan Doris 14-Nov-18 02:16
Superstitious behavior 56 drrayeye 08-Nov-18 20:40
Re: Superstitious behavior 56 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 20:53
Re: Superstitious behavior 51 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:30
another day--another rant. 52 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 09:15
Re: another day--another rant. 54 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 11:11
Free will 50 drrayeye 10-Nov-18 08:20
Superstitions 47 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 20:48
Re: Various states of consciousness 50 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 20:49
Re: Various states of consciousness 54 Eddie Larry 08-Nov-18 04:08
You're not following 58 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 08:47
Re: Free will or not? 69 Jock 06-Nov-18 17:00
Re: Free will or not? 63 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 18:04
Re: Free will or not? 57 Jock 08-Nov-18 21:38
Re: Free will or not? 57 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:41
Re: Free will or not? 52 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 07:32
Re: Free will or not? 59 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 07:48
Completely off the wall 56 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 13:01
Re: Completely off the wall 56 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 13:56
Re: Completely off the wall 50 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 18:00
Re: Completely off the wall 58 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 18:31
Re: Completely off the wall 60 Jock 09-Nov-18 20:11
Contumelious 56 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:29
Re: Completely off the wall 54 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 08:25
Re: Completely off the wall 56 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:17
Re-education 53 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:08
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 75 M. J. Thomas 05-Nov-18 14:45
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 74 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 15:46
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 64 M. J. Thomas 06-Nov-18 10:43
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 61 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 14:13
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 62 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 14:28
So what is God to you? 66 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:47
Re: So what is God to you? 65 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 00:48
Re: So what is God to you? 60 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:21
Re: So what is God to you? 61 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 01:38
Re: So what is God to you? 61 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 02:07
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 72 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 20:04
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 71 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:51
Me too! 67 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:47
No-Name freedom.... 75 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 01:12
The way 71 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 02:19
Re: Free will or not? 78 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 12:25
Re: Free will or not? 71 Eddie Larry 06-Nov-18 14:34
Re: Free will or not? 68 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 16:42
Way to go! 73 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:52
The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 78 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 00:41
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 83 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:24
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 80 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 12:40
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 87 Enigcom 07-Nov-18 16:15
Re: Free will or not? 91 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 20:55
Re: Free will or not? 62 Enigcom 11-Nov-18 22:10
Re: Free will or not? 68 wilpsy3 10-Nov-18 21:39


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