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Actually Susan, I think that what ancient people decided was that there were forces of Nature that did NOT do what people wanted. Like volcanoes, storms, earthquakes etc. We call them, even today, forces of nature. They can still destroy us and our plans.
On what basis do you think they did not anthropomorphise these forces of nature?? Do you think they realised they were natural forces of nature? If that was the case, why do you think that people, as they became more stable and were surviving more successfully, made that natural system into a more and more complicated system of worshipping the gods/spirits that they imagined, and told people, were behind them?
They worked to placate them, built places for these forces to be worshipped. If, right from that logical start, they knew they were exploiting the people with their apparent power to intercede with whatever gods they had invented, that makes religions and their leaders an unhelpful way of living – I was going to say, ‘a blight’ but that is too derogatory a term - on society for more like a million years rather than tens of thousands I think, don’t you?
If ancient people went from understanding that natural events were just that – natural, it would have been a backward step, evolutionarily if nothing else, to thentreat them as gods/spirits/etc.
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I suggest that what was superstitious was thinking people could do things which avert these natural processes.
Well, yes, that is what superstition is, isn’t it?! :) To say that religious beliefs are not superstitions doesn’t hold water. If you believe they are different, can you explain why?
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So I take it now that “alternative superstition “ simply means ancient superstitions or Susan’s interpretation of ancient superstitions.
No, I’ll make it clear – ancient superstitions were understandable; alternative superstitions that followed and continue today, were and are religious beliefs, with supposed gods or spirits as their focus.
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In terms of your last two sentences, I think that modern religions have already handled the issues of ancient or original superstitions quite well. God for modern religions is really tied to the concept of good or goodness. Especially, a lifestyle based on love of life and reciprocity towards one’s neighbors.
That, as we have learnt from evolutionary studies, is a vital survival trait. As long as it continues to be passed on, the human race will continue to survive, in spite of the unevidenced ideas of many, whether they are meant in as kind and good a manner or not. Religious leaders are so deeply embedded and involved in the necessity for perpetuating these faith beliefs that I suppose enough of them work for the good of the people for them to be supported until such time as they become a minority view. I shake my head sadly that there are still such vast numbers who can inculcate, indoctrinate, teach as truth, etc daft beliefs like people flying on winged horses, angels with wings, resurrections of people who then rise – whyrise? We know enough about the Earth, galaxies and the universe to understand what is above us” – into some mythical heaven.
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Now the notion that ‘god is beyond space and time’ was a later notion based on
Doesn’t matter what it was based on – it is a false idea which gets religious leaders out of the hole they are in.
I will also say that as far as I’m concerned, the CofE, shaky as it is, provides the background stability needed by humans and should stay until something more able to form that background becomes available.
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You know Susan, god does not have to be interpreted as a “supernatural existent”
Of course, there is no obligation, ;ought or should to do that. Why do you think it should? For one thing, as I might have mentioned occasionally, there is zero evidence for any godd/spirit/etc existing other than as an idea in human brains.
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and , if so, then you don’t have an argument at all. I can only suggest being careful with the argument of supernatural reality.
You’ll have to explain that – I can’t see what you mean.
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It works both ways. IMO, of course.
What does?!! And How?
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My definition is simple, god is the word people use to name the meaning they find in life. Not “supernatural “ at all.
If that were true, then there would be a cessation of people killing others because of the others’ beliefs. And, of course, the word God would lose its authority because the religious leaders claiming its existence would be shown to be spreading falsehoods.
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Hope this helps!
I don’t know about that, but it has made a very interesting start to my Saturday! Thank you.

Susan

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Free will or not? 1140 greengirl5 04-Nov-18 21:54
Re: Free will or not? 228 Itatw70s 04-Nov-18 22:51
Re: Free will or not? 182 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 00:02
Re: Free will or not? 166 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 03:19
Re: Free will or not? 168 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 04:01
Re: Free will or not? 166 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 05:01
Re: Free will or not? 170 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 05:10
Re: Free will or not? 158 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 05:25
Re: Free will or not? 161 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 06:18
The chocolate made me do it 153 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 07:35
Re: The chocolate made me do it 152 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 08:00
Re: The chocolate made me do it 159 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 09:18
Re: The chocolate made me do it 173 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 10:00
Re: The chocolate made me do it 169 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 12:18
Re: The chocolate made me do it 150 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 12:57
Re: The chocolate made me do it, but did not make me think! 153 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:25
Re: The chocolate made me do it 164 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 15:05
Security and randomness 158 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 08:19
Re: Security and randomness 147 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 12:51
Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 156 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 11:40
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 153 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 12:22
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 161 Itatw70s 05-Nov-18 12:48
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 149 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:35
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 155 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 13:04
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 153 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 15:28
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 150 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 19:57
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 161 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 20:39
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 142 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 06:21
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 153 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 09:19
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 152 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 10:37
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 150 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 14:09
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 150 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 14:23
scientific vs. clinical perspective on consciousness 147 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 19:01
Various states of consciousness 152 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:32
Re: Various states of consciousness 160 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 00:37
Re: Various states of consciousness 149 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:11
Re: Various states of consciousness 150 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 06:11
Re: Various states of consciousness 149 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 07:28
Re: Various states of consciousness 160 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 08:28
you're totally lost here 155 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 08:55
Re: you're totally lost here 156 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 09:52
Re: you're totally lost here 152 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 12:02
Re: you're totally lost here 155 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 16:03
Keep the science out 170 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 18:25
Re: Various states of consciousness 153 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 08:58
Re: Various states of consciousness 143 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 10:14
Re: Various states of consciousness 156 Eddie Larry 07-Nov-18 19:04
Re: Various states of consciousness 144 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 21:18
Was Einstein a scientist? 145 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 21:55
Not a materialist 155 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 22:14
Re: Not a materialist 146 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:16
Butting in 150 drrayeye 08-Nov-18 06:24
Re: Not a materialist 143 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 02:30
Re: Not a materialist 146 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 05:58
Re: Not a materialist 140 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 07:19
Re: Various states of consciousness 149 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:13
Re: Various states of consciousness 154 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:08
Re: Various states of consciousness 150 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 02:17
Re: Various states of consciousness 150 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 06:07
Interpretations 152 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 07:23
Re: Various states of consciousness 167 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 07:32
Re: Various states of consciousness 165 Eddie Larry 08-Nov-18 18:26
Re: Various states of consciousness 140 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:16
Re: Various states of consciousness 140 Eddie Larry 09-Nov-18 23:57
May the force be with you! 150 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 01:57
Re: May the force be with you! 150 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 02:20
Re: May the force be with you! 156 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 04:10
Re: May the force be with you! 144 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 14:10
Re: May the force be with you! 146 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 20:26
Re: Various states of consciousness 163 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 08:15
Religious leaders and others 146 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 09:55
Re: Religious leaders and others 155 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 12:04
Pathological disbeliever 154 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 20:32
Re: Pathological disbeliever 143 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:01
Re: Various states of consciousness 154 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 14:27
Whose fault? 150 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 21:00
Re: Whose fault? 146 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 21:12
Re: Whose fault? 150 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:05
Re: Whose fault? 152 greengirl5 11-Nov-18 06:38
Re: Whose fault? 162 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 07:14
Susan's sociological theory of religions 142 drrayeye 10-Nov-18 19:10
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 148 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 20:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 147 drrayeye 11-Nov-18 02:16
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 143 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 146 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 12:46
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 140 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 03:54
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 139 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 06:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 140 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 04:11
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 151 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 06:29
Maybe a cheer leader for science 139 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 08:34
"T of E" vs. "t of e"? 140 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 08:41
N R F 147 greengirl5 13-Nov-18 09:28
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 156 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 17:59
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 142 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 20:16
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 262 Susan Doris 14-Nov-18 02:16
Superstitious behavior 147 drrayeye 08-Nov-18 20:40
Re: Superstitious behavior 140 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 20:53
Re: Superstitious behavior 151 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:30
another day--another rant. 144 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 09:15
Re: another day--another rant. 149 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 11:11
Free will 137 drrayeye 10-Nov-18 08:20
Superstitions 127 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 20:48
Re: Various states of consciousness 133 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 20:49
Re: Various states of consciousness 142 Eddie Larry 08-Nov-18 04:08
You're not following 164 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 08:47
Re: Free will or not? 157 Jock 06-Nov-18 17:00
Re: Free will or not? 168 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 18:04
Re: Free will or not? 148 Jock 08-Nov-18 21:38
Re: Free will or not? 148 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:41
Re: Free will or not? 137 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 07:32
Re: Free will or not? 147 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 07:48
Completely off the wall 143 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 13:01
Re: Completely off the wall 154 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 13:56
Re: Completely off the wall 137 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 18:00
Re: Completely off the wall 146 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 18:31
Re: Completely off the wall 155 Jock 09-Nov-18 20:11
Contumelious 141 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:29
Re: Completely off the wall 144 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 08:25
Re: Completely off the wall 138 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:17
Re-education 142 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:08
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 180 M. J. Thomas 05-Nov-18 14:45
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 180 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 15:46
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 166 M. J. Thomas 06-Nov-18 10:43
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 153 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 14:13
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 155 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 14:28
So what is God to you? 155 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:47
Re: So what is God to you? 164 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 00:48
Re: So what is God to you? 149 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:21
Re: So what is God to you? 153 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 01:38
Re: So what is God to you? 151 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 02:07
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 166 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 20:04
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 163 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:51
Me too! 155 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:47
No-Name freedom.... 165 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 01:12
The way 161 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 02:19
Re: Free will or not? 166 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 12:25
Re: Free will or not? 157 Eddie Larry 06-Nov-18 14:34
Re: Free will or not? 156 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 16:42
Way to go! 157 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:52
The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 167 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 00:41
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 176 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:24
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 176 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 12:40
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 178 Enigcom 07-Nov-18 16:15
Re: Free will or not? 183 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 20:55
Re: Free will or not? 148 Enigcom 11-Nov-18 22:10
Re: Free will or not? 156 wilpsy3 10-Nov-18 21:39


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