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Actually Susan, I think that what ancient people decided was that there were forces of Nature that did NOT do what people wanted. Like volcanoes, storms, earthquakes etc. We call them, even today, forces of nature. They can still destroy us and our plans.
On what basis do you think they did not anthropomorphise these forces of nature?? Do you think they realised they were natural forces of nature? If that was the case, why do you think that people, as they became more stable and were surviving more successfully, made that natural system into a more and more complicated system of worshipping the gods/spirits that they imagined, and told people, were behind them?
They worked to placate them, built places for these forces to be worshipped. If, right from that logical start, they knew they were exploiting the people with their apparent power to intercede with whatever gods they had invented, that makes religions and their leaders an unhelpful way of living – I was going to say, ‘a blight’ but that is too derogatory a term - on society for more like a million years rather than tens of thousands I think, don’t you?
If ancient people went from understanding that natural events were just that – natural, it would have been a backward step, evolutionarily if nothing else, to thentreat them as gods/spirits/etc.
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I suggest that what was superstitious was thinking people could do things which avert these natural processes.
Well, yes, that is what superstition is, isn’t it?! :) To say that religious beliefs are not superstitions doesn’t hold water. If you believe they are different, can you explain why?
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So I take it now that “alternative superstition “ simply means ancient superstitions or Susan’s interpretation of ancient superstitions.
No, I’ll make it clear – ancient superstitions were understandable; alternative superstitions that followed and continue today, were and are religious beliefs, with supposed gods or spirits as their focus.
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In terms of your last two sentences, I think that modern religions have already handled the issues of ancient or original superstitions quite well. God for modern religions is really tied to the concept of good or goodness. Especially, a lifestyle based on love of life and reciprocity towards one’s neighbors.
That, as we have learnt from evolutionary studies, is a vital survival trait. As long as it continues to be passed on, the human race will continue to survive, in spite of the unevidenced ideas of many, whether they are meant in as kind and good a manner or not. Religious leaders are so deeply embedded and involved in the necessity for perpetuating these faith beliefs that I suppose enough of them work for the good of the people for them to be supported until such time as they become a minority view. I shake my head sadly that there are still such vast numbers who can inculcate, indoctrinate, teach as truth, etc daft beliefs like people flying on winged horses, angels with wings, resurrections of people who then rise – whyrise? We know enough about the Earth, galaxies and the universe to understand what is above us” – into some mythical heaven.
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Now the notion that ‘god is beyond space and time’ was a later notion based on
Doesn’t matter what it was based on – it is a false idea which gets religious leaders out of the hole they are in.
I will also say that as far as I’m concerned, the CofE, shaky as it is, provides the background stability needed by humans and should stay until something more able to form that background becomes available.
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You know Susan, god does not have to be interpreted as a “supernatural existent”
Of course, there is no obligation, ;ought or should to do that. Why do you think it should? For one thing, as I might have mentioned occasionally, there is zero evidence for any godd/spirit/etc existing other than as an idea in human brains.
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and , if so, then you don’t have an argument at all. I can only suggest being careful with the argument of supernatural reality.
You’ll have to explain that – I can’t see what you mean.
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It works both ways. IMO, of course.
What does?!! And How?
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My definition is simple, god is the word people use to name the meaning they find in life. Not “supernatural “ at all.
If that were true, then there would be a cessation of people killing others because of the others’ beliefs. And, of course, the word God would lose its authority because the religious leaders claiming its existence would be shown to be spreading falsehoods.
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Hope this helps!
I don’t know about that, but it has made a very interesting start to my Saturday! Thank you.

Susan

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Free will or not? 1180 greengirl5 04-Nov-18 21:54
Re: Free will or not? 238 Itatw70s 04-Nov-18 22:51
Re: Free will or not? 197 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 00:02
Re: Free will or not? 180 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 03:19
Re: Free will or not? 176 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 04:01
Re: Free will or not? 175 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 05:01
Re: Free will or not? 179 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 05:10
Re: Free will or not? 166 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 05:25
Re: Free will or not? 176 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 06:18
The chocolate made me do it 159 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 07:35
Re: The chocolate made me do it 160 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 08:00
Re: The chocolate made me do it 174 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 09:18
Re: The chocolate made me do it 181 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 10:00
Re: The chocolate made me do it 175 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 12:18
Re: The chocolate made me do it 154 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 12:57
Re: The chocolate made me do it, but did not make me think! 162 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:25
Re: The chocolate made me do it 172 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-18 15:05
Security and randomness 166 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 08:19
Re: Security and randomness 155 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 12:51
Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 161 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 11:40
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 162 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 12:22
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 167 Itatw70s 05-Nov-18 12:48
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 162 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:35
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 161 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 13:04
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 158 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 15:28
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 158 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 19:57
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 167 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 20:39
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 150 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 06:21
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 166 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 09:19
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 160 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 10:37
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 157 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 14:09
Re: Cognitive processes allowing or not allowing free will 157 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 14:23
scientific vs. clinical perspective on consciousness 158 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 19:01
Various states of consciousness 158 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:32
Re: Various states of consciousness 167 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 00:37
Re: Various states of consciousness 163 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:11
Re: Various states of consciousness 161 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 06:11
Re: Various states of consciousness 166 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 07:28
Re: Various states of consciousness 166 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 08:28
you're totally lost here 161 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 08:55
Re: you're totally lost here 162 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 09:52
Re: you're totally lost here 161 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 12:02
Re: you're totally lost here 162 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 16:03
Keep the science out 186 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 18:25
Re: Various states of consciousness 166 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 08:58
Re: Various states of consciousness 161 Susan Doris 07-Nov-18 10:14
Re: Various states of consciousness 163 Eddie Larry 07-Nov-18 19:04
Re: Various states of consciousness 159 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 21:18
Was Einstein a scientist? 157 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 21:55
Not a materialist 163 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 22:14
Re: Not a materialist 154 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:16
Butting in 157 drrayeye 08-Nov-18 06:24
Re: Not a materialist 159 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 02:30
Re: Not a materialist 155 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 05:58
Re: Not a materialist 145 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 07:19
Re: Various states of consciousness 165 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:13
Re: Various states of consciousness 158 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 01:08
Re: Various states of consciousness 158 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 02:17
Re: Various states of consciousness 163 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 06:07
Interpretations 164 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 07:23
Re: Various states of consciousness 185 Susan Doris 08-Nov-18 07:32
Re: Various states of consciousness 183 Eddie Larry 08-Nov-18 18:26
Re: Various states of consciousness 146 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:16
Re: Various states of consciousness 152 Eddie Larry 09-Nov-18 23:57
May the force be with you! 159 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 01:57
Re: May the force be with you! 155 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 02:20
Re: May the force be with you! 162 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 04:10
Re: May the force be with you! 159 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 14:10
Re: May the force be with you! 150 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 20:26
Re: Various states of consciousness 174 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 08:15
Religious leaders and others 151 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 09:55
Re: Religious leaders and others 172 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 12:04
Pathological disbeliever 165 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 20:32
Re: Pathological disbeliever 160 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:01
Re: Various states of consciousness 159 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 14:27
Whose fault? 154 greengirl5 10-Nov-18 21:00
Re: Whose fault? 161 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 21:12
Re: Whose fault? 156 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:05
Re: Whose fault? 165 greengirl5 11-Nov-18 06:38
Re: Whose fault? 170 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 07:14
Susan's sociological theory of religions 150 drrayeye 10-Nov-18 19:10
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 165 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 20:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 152 drrayeye 11-Nov-18 02:16
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 150 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 06:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 155 Susan Doris 11-Nov-18 12:46
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 148 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 03:54
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 146 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 06:14
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 146 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 04:11
Re: Susan's sociological theory of religions 160 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 06:29
Maybe a cheer leader for science 151 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 08:34
"T of E" vs. "t of e"? 148 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 08:41
N R F 152 greengirl5 13-Nov-18 09:28
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 161 Susan Doris 13-Nov-18 17:59
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 148 drrayeye 13-Nov-18 20:16
Re: "T of E" vs. "t of e"? 286 Susan Doris 14-Nov-18 02:16
Superstitious behavior 162 drrayeye 08-Nov-18 20:40
Re: Superstitious behavior 150 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 20:53
Re: Superstitious behavior 159 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:30
another day--another rant. 152 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 09:15
Re: another day--another rant. 162 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 11:11
Free will 141 drrayeye 10-Nov-18 08:20
Superstitions 131 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 20:48
Re: Various states of consciousness 140 greengirl5 08-Nov-18 20:49
Re: Various states of consciousness 145 Eddie Larry 08-Nov-18 04:08
You're not following 169 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 08:47
Re: Free will or not? 163 Jock 06-Nov-18 17:00
Re: Free will or not? 181 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 18:04
Re: Free will or not? 155 Jock 08-Nov-18 21:38
Re: Free will or not? 162 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 06:41
Re: Free will or not? 148 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 07:32
Re: Free will or not? 156 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 07:48
Completely off the wall 148 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 13:01
Re: Completely off the wall 167 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 13:56
Re: Completely off the wall 149 drrayeye 09-Nov-18 18:00
Re: Completely off the wall 155 Susan Doris 09-Nov-18 18:31
Re: Completely off the wall 168 Jock 09-Nov-18 20:11
Contumelious 146 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:29
Re: Completely off the wall 147 Susan Doris 10-Nov-18 08:25
Re: Completely off the wall 154 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:17
Re-education 155 greengirl5 09-Nov-18 21:08
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 189 M. J. Thomas 05-Nov-18 14:45
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 188 drrayeye 05-Nov-18 15:46
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 177 M. J. Thomas 06-Nov-18 10:43
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 159 drrayeye 06-Nov-18 14:13
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 172 Susan Doris 06-Nov-18 14:28
So what is God to you? 161 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:47
Re: So what is God to you? 175 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 00:48
Re: So what is God to you? 153 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:21
Re: So what is God to you? 166 drrayeye 07-Nov-18 01:38
Re: So what is God to you? 157 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 02:07
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 180 Susan Doris 05-Nov-18 20:04
Re: Evolution is intelligent. 169 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:51
Me too! 169 greengirl5 05-Nov-18 22:47
No-Name freedom.... 171 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 01:12
The way 168 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 02:19
Re: Free will or not? 175 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 12:25
Re: Free will or not? 174 Eddie Larry 06-Nov-18 14:34
Re: Free will or not? 166 Itatw70s 06-Nov-18 16:42
Way to go! 167 greengirl5 06-Nov-18 21:52
The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 175 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 00:41
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 193 greengirl5 07-Nov-18 01:24
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 192 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 12:40
Re: The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 185 Enigcom 07-Nov-18 16:15
Re: Free will or not? 192 Itatw70s 07-Nov-18 20:55
Re: Free will or not? 155 Enigcom 11-Nov-18 22:10
Re: Free will or not? 161 wilpsy3 10-Nov-18 21:39


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