Inner Space :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For discussions on all matters relating to personal development, religion, philosophy, psychology and so on. 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Nolondil Wrote:

An excellent answer!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Poster Boy Wrote:
>
> > Leaving aside the churches' corrupting
> influences,
> > what about those serial killers, etc? Surely
> you
> > wouldn't liken them to less-than-perfect
> > archers!?
> >
>
Nolondil This will quickly lead us into the weeds of the
> definitions of individual identity and free will.
> How did the 'serial killer' become a
> 'serial killer'? Was it some sort of traumatic
> experience in their own lives (which may of them
> do have when you investigate) and how well did
> they cope with it? And when does someone begin to
> be held responsible for themselves?...
> The greater consequences don't change the nature
> of the situation. On the other hand, if they could
> not have changed the outcome, they are not
> entirely responsible, are they? :)

PB - I firmly agree.
>
> And these questions are a smaller scale version of
> the question of the nature of evil. Is evil 'real'
> in itself? Or merely a separation/privation from
> the good? This is the famous distinction between
> Augustine/Boethius (and the generally held
> 'Christian' view) that evil is merely privation of
> good -- loss of perfection -- and the Manichean
> view that evil is something real in itself,
> independent of and opposed to good -- and
> irredeemable...

PB And...
>
Nolondil > > Mainly, I dispute that this authority
> exists
> > > among mortal kind.
> >
PB > If I may ask, do you believe that such an
> > authority does or might exist elsewhere?
>
Nolondil - This really could get into metaphysics. Are there
> 'beings of higher rank' than humans? Something
> that does come up on this board from time to time.
> :) Personally, I wasn't thinking of some other
> 'authority', I was thinking of laws of cause and
> effect more like karma. Which humans could not
> alter any more than the laws of physics.

PB, it does necessarily get into metaphysics, I think. Personally,
when it comes to this issue I rely mainly on my own life experience,
rather than turning to the philosophies of others. In this context
I refer to various spiritual experiences, where I believe this matter
was addressed.

For whatever it's worth, Nolondil, at the end of the day, I believe
that we live in a universe that is ultimately an extension of a greater Mind,
that we generally call God. Others call it the Tao, some the Brahman etc.

The perception of separation between 'Mind' and matter, or the universal
infinite-Mind and the sub-infinite realms is/are the ultimate
Maya, and at the higher levels of awareness this becomes clear and is
something that can be directly experienced, if only temporarily.

To your earlier point, in my estimation it follows that there is potential
to sin at various sub-infinite levels, and that such manifestations are
likely often due to indirect causes where the individual soul becomes a
victim of its environment or is prone to error for being sub-infinitely aware -
regardless of how advanced or high that level is. Such errors contain a
volitional element, but are not necessarily evil when initially made although
there seems to be great potential to exacerbate the consequences of such
original sins. Susan alludes to thresholds in this thread. I suppose that I
would say that there is such a line, with the most serious consequences being
appropriately called 'evil' for various reasons.

So, my own conclusion is that 'sin' and 'evil' are very real, but born of the
separation that necessarily follows immersion into the sub-infinite realms. I
believe that Jesus somehow understood, or was made to understand, the mechanics
of Mind-matter physics and somehow understood that dying for our sins was the remedy.
Mind-matter physics would probably be the "authority" that I envision, Nolondil, or
a significant part of it. I believe there is a universal God, of course, but I
don't think He whimsically goes about punishing us for our transgressions as much
as we set in motion processes that are more mechanistic, ie 'karmic' in nature.
Karma likely speaks to the concept of 'original' sin, I figure. As a doctrine
there is no contradiction about us being born as sinners if in the past we have
incurred karmic debt.

PB



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31-May-18 19:03 by Poster Boy.

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Sin - do you?! 1140 Susan Doris 26-May-18 12:37
Re: Sin - do you?! 197 PB Bytes 26-May-18 13:38
Re: Sin - do you?! 185 Susan Doris 26-May-18 13:53
Re: Sin - do you?! 185 PB Bytes 26-May-18 18:11
Re: Sin - do you?! 186 Susan Doris 26-May-18 18:36
Re: Sin - do you?! 169 PB Bytes 26-May-18 22:49
Re: Sin - do you?! 176 Eddie Larry 26-May-18 18:34
Re: Sin - do you?! 163 Susan Doris 27-May-18 05:18
Re: Sin - do you?! 170 Eddie Larry 27-May-18 13:20
Re: Sin - do you?! 174 Susan Doris 27-May-18 14:00
Re: Sin - do you?! 162 Eddie Larry 27-May-18 14:11
Re: Sin - do you?! 161 PB Bytes 27-May-18 17:06
Re: Sin - do you?! 172 Susan Doris 27-May-18 17:18
Re: Sin - do you?! 160 PB Bytes 27-May-18 17:22
Re: Sin - do you?! 143 Eddie Larry 27-May-18 19:09
Re: Sin - do you?! 178 PB Bytes 27-May-18 20:57
Re: Sin - do you?! 155 Susan Doris 28-May-18 05:25
Re: Sin - do you?! 166 PB Bytes 28-May-18 14:00
Re: Sin - do you?! 172 Susan Doris 28-May-18 14:13
Re: Sin - do you?! 167 PB Bytes 28-May-18 16:06
Re: Sin - do you?! 225 MLloydHudson 26-May-18 18:43
Re: Sin - do you?! 172 drrayeye 26-May-18 18:59
Re: Sin - do you?! 183 Susan Doris 27-May-18 05:29
Re: Sin - do you?! 213 MLloydHudson 28-May-18 06:28
mistake vs. sin: a example 182 drrayeye 26-May-18 20:03
Re: mistake vs. sin: a example 160 greengirl5 26-May-18 23:14
Re: mistake vs. sin: a example 160 Susan Doris 27-May-18 06:20
Re: mistake vs. sin: a example 174 Susan Doris 27-May-18 06:07
Re: mistake vs. sin: a example 167 drrayeye 28-May-18 03:09
Re: Sin - do you?! 198 drew 27-May-18 05:22
Re: Sin - do you?! 192 Susan Doris 27-May-18 06:28
Re: Sin - do you?! 209 drew 28-May-18 02:28
Re: Sin - do you?! 153 PB Bytes 28-May-18 02:18
Re: Sin - do you?! 164 Susan Doris 28-May-18 05:18
Sin or mistake 161 greengirl5 28-May-18 13:33
Re: Sin or mistake 160 Eddie Larry 28-May-18 13:49
Re: Sin or mistake 171 Susan Doris 28-May-18 14:11
Re: Sin or mistake 159 Eddie Larry 28-May-18 14:30
Re: Sin or mistake 172 Susan Doris 28-May-18 13:50
Sinners and money-lenders 248 greengirl5 28-May-18 23:25
Re: Sinners and money-lenders 160 Susan Doris 29-May-18 05:27
Re: Sinners and money-lenders 166 greengirl5 29-May-18 07:08
Re: Sinners and money-lenders 153 Susan Doris 29-May-18 14:46
Re: Sin - do you?! 161 PB Bytes 28-May-18 14:03
Re: Sin - do you?! 173 Susan Doris 28-May-18 14:16
Re: Sin - do you?! 159 PB Bytes 28-May-18 14:25
Re: Sin - do you?! 178 Susan Doris 28-May-18 15:12
Re: Sin - do you?! 175 PB Bytes 28-May-18 15:52
Re: Sin - do you?! 159 Susan Doris 28-May-18 17:11
Re: Sin - do you?! 184 PB Bytes 28-May-18 17:39
Re: Sin - do you?! 167 Susan Doris 29-May-18 05:45
Re: Sin - do you?! 173 greengirl5 29-May-18 07:27
Re: Sin - do you?! 155 Susan Doris 29-May-18 15:00
Re: Sin - do you?! 161 PB Bytes 29-May-18 22:10
Re: Sin - do you?! 169 greengirl5 29-May-18 23:12
Re: Sin - do you?! 213 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 04:24
Re: Sin - do you?! 202 drew 28-May-18 23:11
A complement--and a reminder 194 drrayeye 29-May-18 19:54
Re: A complement--and a reminder 180 Susan Doris 30-May-18 07:34
Re: A complement--and a reminder 168 drrayeye 30-May-18 08:57
Re: A complement--and a reminder 148 Susan Doris 30-May-18 12:32
Re: A complement--and a reminder 161 drrayeye 30-May-18 16:31
Re: A complement--and a reminder 156 Susan Doris 30-May-18 17:04
Re: A complement--and a reminder 169 drrayeye 30-May-18 20:24
Re: A complement--and a reminder 173 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:14
A caveat 156 drrayeye 31-May-18 11:45
Re: A caveat 152 Susan Doris 31-May-18 14:48
Re: eloquence with words... 206 drew 02-Jun-18 01:12
Re: eloquence with words... 177 Susan Doris 02-Jun-18 05:19
Re: Sin - denotation and connotation 228 Nolondil 29-May-18 20:41
Deliberate obfuscation 193 drrayeye 29-May-18 23:20
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 236 Nolondil 29-May-18 23:50
I answer the question 159 drrayeye 30-May-18 08:32
Re: I answer the question 169 Susan Doris 30-May-18 08:40
See earlier reply 152 drrayeye 30-May-18 16:35
Re: I answer the question 162 greengirl5 30-May-18 13:05
Re: I answer the question 178 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 13:54
discernment 142 drrayeye 30-May-18 16:24
Re: discernment 190 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 22:32
Re: discernment 148 greengirl5 30-May-18 23:40
Re: discernment 208 Eddie Larry 31-May-18 00:02
Thunderstruck! 146 greengirl5 31-May-18 00:28
Re: discernment 147 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:18
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 159 PB Bytes 30-May-18 23:14
Of course "sin" exists 167 greengirl5 30-May-18 23:54
Re: Of course "sin" exists 149 PB Bytes 31-May-18 01:16
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 210 Nolondil 31-May-18 00:11
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 171 greengirl5 31-May-18 00:43
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 164 PB Bytes 31-May-18 01:13
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 188 Nolondil 31-May-18 18:25
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 156 PB Bytes 31-May-18 19:00
Original sin--sort of 163 drrayeye 31-May-18 23:26
Re: Original sin--sort of 165 greengirl5 31-May-18 23:44
Re: Original sin--sort of 149 PB Bytes 01-Jun-18 03:59
Re: Original sin--sort of 158 Susan Doris 01-Jun-18 05:24
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 184 Nolondil 01-Jun-18 00:37
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 154 PB Bytes 01-Jun-18 01:35
Very interesting! 191 greengirl5 01-Jun-18 01:42
Re: Very interesting! 153 PB Bytes 01-Jun-18 04:12
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 156 Susan Doris 01-Jun-18 05:18
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 163 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:28
If not 'mistakes' then what? 158 PB Bytes 31-May-18 15:18
Re: If not 'mistakes' then what? 153 Susan Doris 31-May-18 17:35
Re: If not 'mistakes' then what? 167 PB Bytes 31-May-18 18:05
Re: If not 'mistakes' then what? 160 Susan Doris 01-Jun-18 05:31
Isn't it quite simple? 182 greengirl5 29-May-18 23:55
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 187 greengirl5 30-May-18 00:11
Thinking in earnest now 183 greengirl5 30-May-18 00:40
Re: Thinking in earnest now 235 Nolondil 30-May-18 00:55
Re: Thinking in earnest now 156 Susan Doris 30-May-18 08:37
Re: Thinking in earnest now 182 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 09:50
Re: Thinking in earnest now 163 Susan Doris 30-May-18 11:08
Re: Thinking in earnest now 197 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 17:46
Re: Thinking in earnest now 163 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:38
Re: Thinking in earnest now 168 greengirl5 31-May-18 12:57
Re: Thinking in earnest now 193 Eddie Larry 31-May-18 14:01
Re: Thinking in earnest now 159 greengirl5 31-May-18 14:19
Re: Thinking in earnest now 155 Susan Doris 31-May-18 14:54
Re: Thinking in earnest now 184 Eddie Larry 31-May-18 17:35
Re: Thinking in earnest now 165 Susan Doris 31-May-18 17:40
Re: Thinking in earnest now 176 Eddie Larry 31-May-18 18:25
Smart/intelligent slime 147 greengirl5 01-Jun-18 08:05
Re: Smart/intelligent slime 139 Susan Doris 01-Jun-18 13:29
Intelligent slime - not that simple! 163 greengirl5 01-Jun-18 23:03
Re: Intelligent slime - not that simple! 207 Susan Doris 02-Jun-18 05:36
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 224 MLloydHudson 31-May-18 02:20
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 160 greengirl5 31-May-18 02:56
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 152 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:48
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 163 MLloydHudson 30-May-18 22:11
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 171 greengirl5 31-May-18 00:12
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 150 Susan Doris 31-May-18 06:35
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 171 Susan Doris 30-May-18 12:09
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 153 PB Bytes 30-May-18 16:52
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 165 Susan Doris 30-May-18 17:41
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 174 PB Bytes 30-May-18 18:30
Another brainstorm of mine 163 greengirl5 31-May-18 00:56
Re: Another brainstorm of mine 161 PB Bytes 31-May-18 01:18
Re: Another brainstorm of mine 163 Susan Doris 31-May-18 06:53
Re: Another brainstorm of mine 157 greengirl5 31-May-18 13:13
Re: Another brainstorm of mine 147 Susan Doris 31-May-18 15:02
the bible and God 171 greengirl5 01-Jun-18 08:16
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 159 Susan Doris 31-May-18 06:41
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 174 PB Bytes 31-May-18 19:14
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 215 MLloydHudson 31-May-18 03:41
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 167 PB Bytes 31-May-18 04:22
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 162 Susan Doris 31-May-18 07:11
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 172 PB Bytes 31-May-18 17:35
Job 179 PB Bytes 31-May-18 04:37
Re: Job 167 Susan Doris 31-May-18 07:14
Re: Sin - denotation and connotation 184 Susan Doris 30-May-18 08:00
Re: Sin - do you?! 211 Susan Doris 30-May-18 05:02
Sin do you... 279 drew 25-Jun-18 23:44


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.