Inner Space :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For discussions on all matters relating to personal development, religion, philosophy, psychology and so on. 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Nolondil Wrote:

An excellent answer!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Poster Boy Wrote:
>
> > Leaving aside the churches' corrupting
> influences,
> > what about those serial killers, etc? Surely
> you
> > wouldn't liken them to less-than-perfect
> > archers!?
> >
>
Nolondil This will quickly lead us into the weeds of the
> definitions of individual identity and free will.
> How did the 'serial killer' become a
> 'serial killer'? Was it some sort of traumatic
> experience in their own lives (which may of them
> do have when you investigate) and how well did
> they cope with it? And when does someone begin to
> be held responsible for themselves?...
> The greater consequences don't change the nature
> of the situation. On the other hand, if they could
> not have changed the outcome, they are not
> entirely responsible, are they? :)

PB - I firmly agree.
>
> And these questions are a smaller scale version of
> the question of the nature of evil. Is evil 'real'
> in itself? Or merely a separation/privation from
> the good? This is the famous distinction between
> Augustine/Boethius (and the generally held
> 'Christian' view) that evil is merely privation of
> good -- loss of perfection -- and the Manichean
> view that evil is something real in itself,
> independent of and opposed to good -- and
> irredeemable...

PB And...
>
Nolondil > > Mainly, I dispute that this authority
> exists
> > > among mortal kind.
> >
PB > If I may ask, do you believe that such an
> > authority does or might exist elsewhere?
>
Nolondil - This really could get into metaphysics. Are there
> 'beings of higher rank' than humans? Something
> that does come up on this board from time to time.
> :) Personally, I wasn't thinking of some other
> 'authority', I was thinking of laws of cause and
> effect more like karma. Which humans could not
> alter any more than the laws of physics.

PB, it does necessarily get into metaphysics, I think. Personally,
when it comes to this issue I rely mainly on my own life experience,
rather than turning to the philosophies of others. In this context
I refer to various spiritual experiences, where I believe this matter
was addressed.

For whatever it's worth, Nolondil, at the end of the day, I believe
that we live in a universe that is ultimately an extension of a greater Mind,
that we generally call God. Others call it the Tao, some the Brahman etc.

The perception of separation between 'Mind' and matter, or the universal
infinite-Mind and the sub-infinite realms is/are the ultimate
Maya, and at the higher levels of awareness this becomes clear and is
something that can be directly experienced, if only temporarily.

To your earlier point, in my estimation it follows that there is potential
to sin at various sub-infinite levels, and that such manifestations are
likely often due to indirect causes where the individual soul becomes a
victim of its environment or is prone to error for being sub-infinitely aware -
regardless of how advanced or high that level is. Such errors contain a
volitional element, but are not necessarily evil when initially made although
there seems to be great potential to exacerbate the consequences of such
original sins. Susan alludes to thresholds in this thread. I suppose that I
would say that there is such a line, with the most serious consequences being
appropriately called 'evil' for various reasons.

So, my own conclusion is that 'sin' and 'evil' are very real, but born of the
separation that necessarily follows immersion into the sub-infinite realms. I
believe that Jesus somehow understood, or was made to understand, the mechanics
of Mind-matter physics and somehow understood that dying for our sins was the remedy.
Mind-matter physics would probably be the "authority" that I envision, Nolondil, or
a significant part of it. I believe there is a universal God, of course, but I
don't think He whimsically goes about punishing us for our transgressions as much
as we set in motion processes that are more mechanistic, ie 'karmic' in nature.
Karma likely speaks to the concept of 'original' sin, I figure. As a doctrine
there is no contradiction about us being born as sinners if in the past we have
incurred karmic debt.

PB



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31-May-18 19:03 by Poster Boy.

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Sin - do you?! 1049 Susan Doris 26-May-18 12:37
Re: Sin - do you?! 158 Poster Boy 26-May-18 13:38
Re: Sin - do you?! 147 Susan Doris 26-May-18 13:53
Re: Sin - do you?! 144 Poster Boy 26-May-18 18:11
Re: Sin - do you?! 147 Susan Doris 26-May-18 18:36
Re: Sin - do you?! 142 Poster Boy 26-May-18 22:49
Re: Sin - do you?! 148 Eddie Larry 26-May-18 18:34
Re: Sin - do you?! 135 Susan Doris 27-May-18 05:18
Re: Sin - do you?! 133 Eddie Larry 27-May-18 13:20
Re: Sin - do you?! 135 Susan Doris 27-May-18 14:00
Re: Sin - do you?! 136 Eddie Larry 27-May-18 14:11
Re: Sin - do you?! 132 Poster Boy 27-May-18 17:06
Re: Sin - do you?! 132 Susan Doris 27-May-18 17:18
Re: Sin - do you?! 130 Poster Boy 27-May-18 17:22
Re: Sin - do you?! 119 Eddie Larry 27-May-18 19:09
Re: Sin - do you?! 133 Poster Boy 27-May-18 20:57
Re: Sin - do you?! 129 Susan Doris 28-May-18 05:25
Re: Sin - do you?! 139 Poster Boy 28-May-18 14:00
Re: Sin - do you?! 136 Susan Doris 28-May-18 14:13
Re: Sin - do you?! 143 Poster Boy 28-May-18 16:06
Re: Sin - do you?! 175 MLloydHudson 26-May-18 18:43
Re: Sin - do you?! 134 drrayeye 26-May-18 18:59
Re: Sin - do you?! 144 Susan Doris 27-May-18 05:29
Re: Sin - do you?! 175 MLloydHudson 28-May-18 06:28
mistake vs. sin: a example 142 drrayeye 26-May-18 20:03
Re: mistake vs. sin: a example 122 greengirl5 26-May-18 23:14
Re: mistake vs. sin: a example 134 Susan Doris 27-May-18 06:20
Re: mistake vs. sin: a example 132 Susan Doris 27-May-18 06:07
Re: mistake vs. sin: a example 129 drrayeye 28-May-18 03:09
Re: Sin - do you?! 170 drew 27-May-18 05:22
Re: Sin - do you?! 152 Susan Doris 27-May-18 06:28
Re: Sin - do you?! 182 drew 28-May-18 02:28
Re: Sin - do you?! 128 Poster Boy 28-May-18 02:18
Re: Sin - do you?! 132 Susan Doris 28-May-18 05:18
Sin or mistake 132 greengirl5 28-May-18 13:33
Re: Sin or mistake 130 Eddie Larry 28-May-18 13:49
Re: Sin or mistake 132 Susan Doris 28-May-18 14:11
Re: Sin or mistake 133 Eddie Larry 28-May-18 14:30
Re: Sin or mistake 133 Susan Doris 28-May-18 13:50
Sinners and money-lenders 197 greengirl5 28-May-18 23:25
Re: Sinners and money-lenders 128 Susan Doris 29-May-18 05:27
Re: Sinners and money-lenders 124 greengirl5 29-May-18 07:08
Re: Sinners and money-lenders 126 Susan Doris 29-May-18 14:46
Re: Sin - do you?! 133 Poster Boy 28-May-18 14:03
Re: Sin - do you?! 131 Susan Doris 28-May-18 14:16
Re: Sin - do you?! 133 Poster Boy 28-May-18 14:25
Re: Sin - do you?! 136 Susan Doris 28-May-18 15:12
Re: Sin - do you?! 131 Poster Boy 28-May-18 15:52
Re: Sin - do you?! 130 Susan Doris 28-May-18 17:11
Re: Sin - do you?! 144 Poster Boy 28-May-18 17:39
Re: Sin - do you?! 136 Susan Doris 29-May-18 05:45
Re: Sin - do you?! 133 greengirl5 29-May-18 07:27
Re: Sin - do you?! 118 Susan Doris 29-May-18 15:00
Re: Sin - do you?! 129 Poster Boy 29-May-18 22:10
Re: Sin - do you?! 128 greengirl5 29-May-18 23:12
Re: Sin - do you?! 144 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 04:24
Re: Sin - do you?! 160 drew 28-May-18 23:11
A complement--and a reminder 166 drrayeye 29-May-18 19:54
Re: A complement--and a reminder 138 Susan Doris 30-May-18 07:34
Re: A complement--and a reminder 125 drrayeye 30-May-18 08:57
Re: A complement--and a reminder 120 Susan Doris 30-May-18 12:32
Re: A complement--and a reminder 119 drrayeye 30-May-18 16:31
Re: A complement--and a reminder 120 Susan Doris 30-May-18 17:04
Re: A complement--and a reminder 127 drrayeye 30-May-18 20:24
Re: A complement--and a reminder 130 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:14
A caveat 126 drrayeye 31-May-18 11:45
Re: A caveat 123 Susan Doris 31-May-18 14:48
Re: eloquence with words... 164 drew 02-Jun-18 01:12
Re: eloquence with words... 133 Susan Doris 02-Jun-18 05:19
Re: Sin - denotation and connotation 201 Nolondil 29-May-18 20:41
Deliberate obfuscation 162 drrayeye 29-May-18 23:20
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 192 Nolondil 29-May-18 23:50
I answer the question 132 drrayeye 30-May-18 08:32
Re: I answer the question 126 Susan Doris 30-May-18 08:40
See earlier reply 114 drrayeye 30-May-18 16:35
Re: I answer the question 129 greengirl5 30-May-18 13:05
Re: I answer the question 145 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 13:54
discernment 115 drrayeye 30-May-18 16:24
Re: discernment 149 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 22:32
Re: discernment 121 greengirl5 30-May-18 23:40
Re: discernment 160 Eddie Larry 31-May-18 00:02
Thunderstruck! 119 greengirl5 31-May-18 00:28
Re: discernment 120 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:18
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 117 Poster Boy 30-May-18 23:14
Of course "sin" exists 125 greengirl5 30-May-18 23:54
Re: Of course "sin" exists 123 Poster Boy 31-May-18 01:16
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 161 Nolondil 31-May-18 00:11
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 128 greengirl5 31-May-18 00:43
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 132 Poster Boy 31-May-18 01:13
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 158 Nolondil 31-May-18 18:25
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 126 Poster Boy 31-May-18 19:00
Original sin--sort of 135 drrayeye 31-May-18 23:26
Re: Original sin--sort of 124 greengirl5 31-May-18 23:44
Re: Original sin--sort of 121 Poster Boy 01-Jun-18 03:59
Re: Original sin--sort of 120 Susan Doris 01-Jun-18 05:24
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 153 Nolondil 01-Jun-18 00:37
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 118 Poster Boy 01-Jun-18 01:35
Very interesting! 163 greengirl5 01-Jun-18 01:42
Re: Very interesting! 126 Poster Boy 01-Jun-18 04:12
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 118 Susan Doris 01-Jun-18 05:18
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 123 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:28
If not 'mistakes' then what? 126 Poster Boy 31-May-18 15:18
Re: If not 'mistakes' then what? 124 Susan Doris 31-May-18 17:35
Re: If not 'mistakes' then what? 132 Poster Boy 31-May-18 18:05
Re: If not 'mistakes' then what? 120 Susan Doris 01-Jun-18 05:31
Isn't it quite simple? 155 greengirl5 29-May-18 23:55
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 160 greengirl5 30-May-18 00:11
Thinking in earnest now 154 greengirl5 30-May-18 00:40
Re: Thinking in earnest now 193 Nolondil 30-May-18 00:55
Re: Thinking in earnest now 130 Susan Doris 30-May-18 08:37
Re: Thinking in earnest now 143 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 09:50
Re: Thinking in earnest now 135 Susan Doris 30-May-18 11:08
Re: Thinking in earnest now 154 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 17:46
Re: Thinking in earnest now 118 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:38
Re: Thinking in earnest now 125 greengirl5 31-May-18 12:57
Re: Thinking in earnest now 151 Eddie Larry 31-May-18 14:01
Re: Thinking in earnest now 127 greengirl5 31-May-18 14:19
Re: Thinking in earnest now 126 Susan Doris 31-May-18 14:54
Re: Thinking in earnest now 153 Eddie Larry 31-May-18 17:35
Re: Thinking in earnest now 124 Susan Doris 31-May-18 17:40
Re: Thinking in earnest now 143 Eddie Larry 31-May-18 18:25
Smart/intelligent slime 121 greengirl5 01-Jun-18 08:05
Re: Smart/intelligent slime 103 Susan Doris 01-Jun-18 13:29
Intelligent slime - not that simple! 121 greengirl5 01-Jun-18 23:03
Re: Intelligent slime - not that simple! 161 Susan Doris 02-Jun-18 05:36
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 173 MLloydHudson 31-May-18 02:20
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 120 greengirl5 31-May-18 02:56
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 126 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:48
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 136 MLloydHudson 30-May-18 22:11
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 129 greengirl5 31-May-18 00:12
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 122 Susan Doris 31-May-18 06:35
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 131 Susan Doris 30-May-18 12:09
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 128 Poster Boy 30-May-18 16:52
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 126 Susan Doris 30-May-18 17:41
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 135 Poster Boy 30-May-18 18:30
Another brainstorm of mine 132 greengirl5 31-May-18 00:56
Re: Another brainstorm of mine 131 Poster Boy 31-May-18 01:18
Re: Another brainstorm of mine 123 Susan Doris 31-May-18 06:53
Re: Another brainstorm of mine 129 greengirl5 31-May-18 13:13
Re: Another brainstorm of mine 106 Susan Doris 31-May-18 15:02
the bible and God 129 greengirl5 01-Jun-18 08:16
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 131 Susan Doris 31-May-18 06:41
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 129 Poster Boy 31-May-18 19:14
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 178 MLloydHudson 31-May-18 03:41
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 125 Poster Boy 31-May-18 04:22
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 133 Susan Doris 31-May-18 07:11
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 128 Poster Boy 31-May-18 17:35
Job 140 Poster Boy 31-May-18 04:37
Re: Job 141 Susan Doris 31-May-18 07:14
Re: Sin - denotation and connotation 146 Susan Doris 30-May-18 08:00
Re: Sin - do you?! 171 Susan Doris 30-May-18 05:02
Sin do you... 236 drew 25-Jun-18 23:44


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.