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Poster Boy - This is an unfair onus, Susan, unless you or a single one of your secular colleagues can provide a hard and fast definition of things that we all agree exist, like happiness or sadness. Care to define exactly what either of those terms mean? I don't think that you or anyone here can do that. So, why ask others such impossible questions?

Lloyd - I apologize. I know this question was NOT directed at me, but is in the open forum (not a private message), so please excuse me for responding.

Right you are. All opinions are valid here, Lloyd, so have at it.

There was no disrespect intended to Susan on my part, when I invoked the term "unfair" and what followed. It's just that I am certain that I know where this line of discussion leads.

Secularists often place unfair burdens on believers, when it comes to the mechanics of why we believe. In many cases, this plays out as an unwillingness to consider evidence or dismiss it outright; then they preach that 'evidence' is what matters to modern thinkers and that to not agree with such a thing is not rational. Basically, those secularists who think this don't know what 'rationalism' is.

The notion of trying to get a believe to demonstrate exactly what a sin is is equally skewed, and the best way to demonstrate that is to shift the onus by asking them to describe an abstract perception that we all agree is real, like happiness. Case closed, unless anyone reading this can provide a tidy definition of happiness, one that we can all agree completely defines that concept. Like 1 plus 1 equals 2.


Lloyd - As important (perhaps more so) no one ought to be attacked personally for asking a question, even a silly impertinent one so long as it's on topic.

Let me be clear about another thing, Lloyd. I don't think that Susan's question or her topic here is 'silly'. On the contrary, I think it's worthy of discussion which is not something I find here a lot anymore. At the end of the day, Susan believes that there is no sin and that we only make mistakes. That, I would say, is incorrect and is not very well considered. I would say, further, that the reason why it isn't considered is because Susan has a very strong secular bias. To say that a serial pedophile, rapist, etc etc etc simply makes "mistakes" is, in my opinion, not silly but ridiculous.

That said, I agree with Nolondil that Susan has raised an indirectly related point here, that being the extent to which we are guilt driven by people who would make us feel incarerated by such things, if we let them.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Sin - do you?! 1137 Susan Doris 26-May-18 12:37
Re: Sin - do you?! 197 PB Bytes 26-May-18 13:38
Re: Sin - do you?! 185 Susan Doris 26-May-18 13:53
Re: Sin - do you?! 185 PB Bytes 26-May-18 18:11
Re: Sin - do you?! 185 Susan Doris 26-May-18 18:36
Re: Sin - do you?! 168 PB Bytes 26-May-18 22:49
Re: Sin - do you?! 175 Eddie Larry 26-May-18 18:34
Re: Sin - do you?! 161 Susan Doris 27-May-18 05:18
Re: Sin - do you?! 168 Eddie Larry 27-May-18 13:20
Re: Sin - do you?! 172 Susan Doris 27-May-18 14:00
Re: Sin - do you?! 162 Eddie Larry 27-May-18 14:11
Re: Sin - do you?! 160 PB Bytes 27-May-18 17:06
Re: Sin - do you?! 170 Susan Doris 27-May-18 17:18
Re: Sin - do you?! 158 PB Bytes 27-May-18 17:22
Re: Sin - do you?! 142 Eddie Larry 27-May-18 19:09
Re: Sin - do you?! 174 PB Bytes 27-May-18 20:57
Re: Sin - do you?! 154 Susan Doris 28-May-18 05:25
Re: Sin - do you?! 164 PB Bytes 28-May-18 14:00
Re: Sin - do you?! 171 Susan Doris 28-May-18 14:13
Re: Sin - do you?! 167 PB Bytes 28-May-18 16:06
Re: Sin - do you?! 223 MLloydHudson 26-May-18 18:43
Re: Sin - do you?! 171 drrayeye 26-May-18 18:59
Re: Sin - do you?! 183 Susan Doris 27-May-18 05:29
Re: Sin - do you?! 211 MLloydHudson 28-May-18 06:28
mistake vs. sin: a example 179 drrayeye 26-May-18 20:03
Re: mistake vs. sin: a example 159 greengirl5 26-May-18 23:14
Re: mistake vs. sin: a example 158 Susan Doris 27-May-18 06:20
Re: mistake vs. sin: a example 172 Susan Doris 27-May-18 06:07
Re: mistake vs. sin: a example 166 drrayeye 28-May-18 03:09
Re: Sin - do you?! 196 drew 27-May-18 05:22
Re: Sin - do you?! 189 Susan Doris 27-May-18 06:28
Re: Sin - do you?! 207 drew 28-May-18 02:28
Re: Sin - do you?! 152 PB Bytes 28-May-18 02:18
Re: Sin - do you?! 159 Susan Doris 28-May-18 05:18
Sin or mistake 159 greengirl5 28-May-18 13:33
Re: Sin or mistake 159 Eddie Larry 28-May-18 13:49
Re: Sin or mistake 170 Susan Doris 28-May-18 14:11
Re: Sin or mistake 158 Eddie Larry 28-May-18 14:30
Re: Sin or mistake 171 Susan Doris 28-May-18 13:50
Sinners and money-lenders 246 greengirl5 28-May-18 23:25
Re: Sinners and money-lenders 158 Susan Doris 29-May-18 05:27
Re: Sinners and money-lenders 165 greengirl5 29-May-18 07:08
Re: Sinners and money-lenders 152 Susan Doris 29-May-18 14:46
Re: Sin - do you?! 160 PB Bytes 28-May-18 14:03
Re: Sin - do you?! 172 Susan Doris 28-May-18 14:16
Re: Sin - do you?! 158 PB Bytes 28-May-18 14:25
Re: Sin - do you?! 175 Susan Doris 28-May-18 15:12
Re: Sin - do you?! 172 PB Bytes 28-May-18 15:52
Re: Sin - do you?! 158 Susan Doris 28-May-18 17:11
Re: Sin - do you?! 183 PB Bytes 28-May-18 17:39
Re: Sin - do you?! 164 Susan Doris 29-May-18 05:45
Re: Sin - do you?! 171 greengirl5 29-May-18 07:27
Re: Sin - do you?! 152 Susan Doris 29-May-18 15:00
Re: Sin - do you?! 158 PB Bytes 29-May-18 22:10
Re: Sin - do you?! 166 greengirl5 29-May-18 23:12
Re: Sin - do you?! 212 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 04:24
Re: Sin - do you?! 201 drew 28-May-18 23:11
A complement--and a reminder 193 drrayeye 29-May-18 19:54
Re: A complement--and a reminder 178 Susan Doris 30-May-18 07:34
Re: A complement--and a reminder 166 drrayeye 30-May-18 08:57
Re: A complement--and a reminder 147 Susan Doris 30-May-18 12:32
Re: A complement--and a reminder 160 drrayeye 30-May-18 16:31
Re: A complement--and a reminder 155 Susan Doris 30-May-18 17:04
Re: A complement--and a reminder 168 drrayeye 30-May-18 20:24
Re: A complement--and a reminder 173 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:14
A caveat 154 drrayeye 31-May-18 11:45
Re: A caveat 151 Susan Doris 31-May-18 14:48
Re: eloquence with words... 205 drew 02-Jun-18 01:12
Re: eloquence with words... 176 Susan Doris 02-Jun-18 05:19
Re: Sin - denotation and connotation 227 Nolondil 29-May-18 20:41
Deliberate obfuscation 191 drrayeye 29-May-18 23:20
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 234 Nolondil 29-May-18 23:50
I answer the question 157 drrayeye 30-May-18 08:32
Re: I answer the question 167 Susan Doris 30-May-18 08:40
See earlier reply 152 drrayeye 30-May-18 16:35
Re: I answer the question 161 greengirl5 30-May-18 13:05
Re: I answer the question 178 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 13:54
discernment 140 drrayeye 30-May-18 16:24
Re: discernment 188 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 22:32
Re: discernment 147 greengirl5 30-May-18 23:40
Re: discernment 205 Eddie Larry 31-May-18 00:02
Thunderstruck! 145 greengirl5 31-May-18 00:28
Re: discernment 146 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:18
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 158 PB Bytes 30-May-18 23:14
Of course "sin" exists 166 greengirl5 30-May-18 23:54
Re: Of course "sin" exists 148 PB Bytes 31-May-18 01:16
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 208 Nolondil 31-May-18 00:11
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 170 greengirl5 31-May-18 00:43
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 164 PB Bytes 31-May-18 01:13
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 187 Nolondil 31-May-18 18:25
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 155 PB Bytes 31-May-18 19:00
Original sin--sort of 162 drrayeye 31-May-18 23:26
Re: Original sin--sort of 164 greengirl5 31-May-18 23:44
Re: Original sin--sort of 147 PB Bytes 01-Jun-18 03:59
Re: Original sin--sort of 157 Susan Doris 01-Jun-18 05:24
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 183 Nolondil 01-Jun-18 00:37
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 154 PB Bytes 01-Jun-18 01:35
Very interesting! 189 greengirl5 01-Jun-18 01:42
Re: Very interesting! 151 PB Bytes 01-Jun-18 04:12
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 155 Susan Doris 01-Jun-18 05:18
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 162 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:28
If not 'mistakes' then what? 156 PB Bytes 31-May-18 15:18
Re: If not 'mistakes' then what? 152 Susan Doris 31-May-18 17:35
Re: If not 'mistakes' then what? 164 PB Bytes 31-May-18 18:05
Re: If not 'mistakes' then what? 158 Susan Doris 01-Jun-18 05:31
Isn't it quite simple? 180 greengirl5 29-May-18 23:55
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 185 greengirl5 30-May-18 00:11
Thinking in earnest now 183 greengirl5 30-May-18 00:40
Re: Thinking in earnest now 234 Nolondil 30-May-18 00:55
Re: Thinking in earnest now 155 Susan Doris 30-May-18 08:37
Re: Thinking in earnest now 181 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 09:50
Re: Thinking in earnest now 161 Susan Doris 30-May-18 11:08
Re: Thinking in earnest now 196 Eddie Larry 30-May-18 17:46
Re: Thinking in earnest now 161 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:38
Re: Thinking in earnest now 167 greengirl5 31-May-18 12:57
Re: Thinking in earnest now 192 Eddie Larry 31-May-18 14:01
Re: Thinking in earnest now 157 greengirl5 31-May-18 14:19
Re: Thinking in earnest now 155 Susan Doris 31-May-18 14:54
Re: Thinking in earnest now 183 Eddie Larry 31-May-18 17:35
Re: Thinking in earnest now 163 Susan Doris 31-May-18 17:40
Re: Thinking in earnest now 172 Eddie Larry 31-May-18 18:25
Smart/intelligent slime 146 greengirl5 01-Jun-18 08:05
Re: Smart/intelligent slime 137 Susan Doris 01-Jun-18 13:29
Intelligent slime - not that simple! 162 greengirl5 01-Jun-18 23:03
Re: Intelligent slime - not that simple! 206 Susan Doris 02-Jun-18 05:36
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 222 MLloydHudson 31-May-18 02:20
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 158 greengirl5 31-May-18 02:56
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 151 Susan Doris 31-May-18 05:48
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 159 MLloydHudson 30-May-18 22:11
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 170 greengirl5 31-May-18 00:12
Re: Isn't it quite simple? 149 Susan Doris 31-May-18 06:35
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 170 Susan Doris 30-May-18 12:09
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 152 PB Bytes 30-May-18 16:52
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 164 Susan Doris 30-May-18 17:41
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 171 PB Bytes 30-May-18 18:30
Another brainstorm of mine 162 greengirl5 31-May-18 00:56
Re: Another brainstorm of mine 159 PB Bytes 31-May-18 01:18
Re: Another brainstorm of mine 162 Susan Doris 31-May-18 06:53
Re: Another brainstorm of mine 157 greengirl5 31-May-18 13:13
Re: Another brainstorm of mine 145 Susan Doris 31-May-18 15:02
the bible and God 170 greengirl5 01-Jun-18 08:16
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 157 Susan Doris 31-May-18 06:41
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 173 PB Bytes 31-May-18 19:14
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 214 MLloydHudson 31-May-18 03:41
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 165 PB Bytes 31-May-18 04:22
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 160 Susan Doris 31-May-18 07:11
Re: Deliberate obfuscation 171 PB Bytes 31-May-18 17:35
Job 177 PB Bytes 31-May-18 04:37
Re: Job 166 Susan Doris 31-May-18 07:14
Re: Sin - denotation and connotation 183 Susan Doris 30-May-18 08:00
Re: Sin - do you?! 210 Susan Doris 30-May-18 05:02
Sin do you... 279 drew 25-Jun-18 23:44


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