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Re: Totally confused on The Periodic Table

February 05, 2012 03:52PM
Hi Don,

It is possible for many different elements to have the same number of nucleons. It all comes down to isotopes. For example, Nickel has many stable isotopes such as 59Ni, 60Ni etc... What this means is that in each case the number of protons is the same but the number of neutrons changes.

And here I notice a mistake, in that I used Nickel 59, which is an unstable isotope, and it should have been Nickel 58 which is the most abundant isotope. Still the conclusion is the same, as cobalt is lower in the table than Nickel though is more massive because of more neutrons. Remember though that what defines the position of an element on the periodic table is not its total mass number, but its atomic number (that is the number of protons and electrons in the atom). It is this number that defines the chemical properties of the element and hence its position. For nuclei, you have to consider the total number of nucleons, and so the nuclear properties (akin to chemical reactions, but are instead nuclear reactions) is defined by the nucleon (or mass) number.

The reason why Cobalt has more neutrons than Nickel comes down to quantum mechanics, in particular to do with pauli exclusion principle. its rather difficult to explain, but it comes down to the "shell model" of the nucleus, where the number of protons and neutrons required to form a stable nucleus depends upon how each fill the proton and neutron and coupled proton/neutron shells. This is similar to the shell model of electron orbitals, though a bit more complex since you are dealing with two types of indistinguishable fermi-dirac particles.

In a very broad sense, inside the nucleus there are two competing forces, namely the mutual repulsion from electrostatic charges of the protons, and the attractive strong force between those protons, and the neutral neutrons. If you were to make a recipe of making nuclei, too many protons will cause the mixture to be unstable (the electrostatic force over comes the strong force), and to stabilise the mixture, you add neutrons. Sometimes though too many neutrons will make the mixture too flat, and so less are required. What defines the number of protons and neutrons in the recipe is quantum mechanics, and it inst always intuitive (Nickel is a nice example, as the 58 and 60 weight isotopes are stable, but the 59 mass isotope is not).

So many other nuclei can have the same number of nucleons (but different combionations). They are called isobars. Whilst some isobars will be stable and some unstable, some will have long half lives. An example is above where I mistakenly took Nickel59 and not Nickel 58.

I do remember that, but I dont think I have that data handy anymore. If I did, it would be on my previous and now expired computer. if I remember correctly the speed of sound values came from a journal article i found for you. I know for a fact that i do not have a copy of that article. I will though have a route around and see if I can find the information again.

Jonny




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Totally confused on The Periodic Table

Ahatmose 1109 February 05, 2012 03:39AM

Re: Totally confused on The Periodic Table

JonnyMcA 379 February 05, 2012 09:55AM

Re: Totally confused on The Periodic Table

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» Re: Totally confused on The Periodic Table

JonnyMcA 351 February 05, 2012 03:52PM

Re: Totally confused on The Periodic Table

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Re: Totally confused on The Periodic Table

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Re: Totally confused on The Periodic Table

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Re: Totally confused on The Periodic Table

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Re: Totally confused on The Periodic Table

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Re: Totally confused on The Periodic Table

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Re: Totally confused on The Periodic Table

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Re: Jonny/Ahatmose

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Index of Refraction

Ahatmose 372 February 09, 2012 03:08AM

Re: Index of Refraction

Ahatmose 348 February 09, 2012 03:25AM

Re: Index of Refraction

JonnyMcA 1299 February 09, 2012 08:34AM

Re: Index of Refraction

Ahatmose 342 February 09, 2012 04:10PM

Index of Refraction: The solution ?

Ahatmose 371 February 09, 2012 05:41PM

Re: Index of Refraction: The solution ?

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Re: Index of Refraction

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Re: Index of Refraction

Ahatmose 341 February 12, 2012 01:11PM

Addendum: Index of Refraction

Ahatmose 331 February 12, 2012 01:19PM

Second Addendum: Index of Refraction

Ahatmose 273 February 12, 2012 01:26PM

Third Addendum: Index of Refraction

Ahatmose 303 February 12, 2012 01:32PM

Re: Third Addendum: Index of Refraction

JonnyMcA 311 February 12, 2012 04:03PM

Re: Third Addendum: Index of Refraction

JonnyMcA 324 February 12, 2012 09:17PM

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JonnyMcA 332 February 12, 2012 03:40PM

Re: Addendum: Index of Refraction

JonnyMcA 314 February 12, 2012 03:34PM

Re: Index of Refraction

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Re: Index of Refraction

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Re: Index of Refraction

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Re: Index of Refraction

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Re: Index of Refraction

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Re: Index of Refraction

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Re: Index of Refraction

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Re: Index of Refraction

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Re: Index of Refraction

Ahatmose 327 February 13, 2012 05:37PM

Re: Index of Refraction

JonnyMcA 312 February 13, 2012 07:20PM

Re: Index of Refraction

Spiros 448 April 05, 2018 02:20PM

Talk about stretching credibility: Index of Refraction

Ahatmose 336 February 13, 2012 05:48AM



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