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JonnyMcA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> laughin Wrote:
>
> > But some kind radiation has, in the past, been
> > what they tried to make gravity to be
> > all part of the "unification of the forces)
> > process
>
> This is incorrect. they are talking about teh
> unification of different forces/interactions. You
> use the word radiation as if it has only one
> meaning pertaining to EM. Alpha and beta
> radiation for example are particles, you get
> proton, and heavy ion radiation treatment for some
> cancers. The Weak force is mediated by W and Z
> bosons, and these are not EM radiation, but yet
> The EM force is unified with the Weak force at
> high energies. Your view is far too simplistic
> and misunderstood.
>
>
> > whatever it is, HAS to travel faster than
> light,
> > because the effect of gravity does
> >
> [grahamhancock.com]
>
> > ,1040448#msg-1040448
>
> Actually no. Gravity in a Newtonian gravity
> framework is instantaneous. In general relativity
> it has a finite speed, that of the speed of light.
> Gravitational waves cannot exist is Newtonian
> gravity. that is why this result is such a
> milestone, as it once again proves that the
> framework for general relativity is correct, and
> that Newtonian gravity is not correct, although
> the latter is a good approximation for slow speeds
> and small mass.
>
> > So they are saying that space is rippling, not
> > that some particle is traveling THRU space FTL
> > also, remember, space isn't made of particles
> (so
> > get any ideas of aether out of your head right
> > now)
> > If a ripple of "space" (chuckle) can travel
> faster
> > than light can travel through it
> > then GR isn't violated,
> > the effect can be as fast as needed
> > and if no particles are exchanged
> > no bosons or gravitons needed
> > (bosons!, we don't need no stinking bosons)
> > which explains why they haven't been found!!!!
> >
>
> Like all waves, gravitational waves are energy
> propagation through space. In the case of
> gravitational waves, this is manifested through
> the waving of space-time, just like an
> electromagnetic wave is a waving teh the
> electromagnetic field. Just like the
> electromagnetic field, no medium is required to
> carry the wave (unlike sound waves for example).
> As to why gravitons havent been found. Since
> gravitons are the quantised vibration of the
> gravitational field (much as photons are the
> quantised vibration of the EM field), and since an
> ensemble of gravitons would make up a
> gravitational wave (much like an ensemble of
> photons make up an EM wave), and since we have
> only just developed apparatus sensitive enough to
> detect gravitational waves, I think you are asking
> too much as to why we have not yet found
> gravitons!
>
>
> > Hey, I'm just trying to interpret their
> "findings"
> > before the Nobel
> > (it looks better to have the story straight
> > beforehand)
>
> > now the big question...?
> > what's shakin'? (an old hippy expression :) )
> > what (and how) is grabbing ahold of space and
> > shaking it?
> > especially since there is nothing to grab ahold
> > of.....
>
> It is an interesting question, and general
> relativity is not the end of the subject on how
> nature works, since at the quatum level it breaks
> down. When, or if, we ever develope a completely
> consistant theory of quantum gravity your big
> question may be answered...or not.
>
> BTW, its best to refer to them as gravitational
> waves. Gravity waves are something entirely
> different
> [en.wikipedia.org]
>
> Jonny


hi Jonny,

Quote

Hey, I'm just trying to interpret their "findings"
> before the Nobel
> (it looks better to have the story straight
> beforehand)

there is a lot of confusion about this "story"

1. what is actually detected (measured)
in theory the interferometer is measuring the stretching
and contracting of "space"
this is shown by the phase difference
between a split beam of light in two different directions

2. they claim this difference is from "ripples" in the fabric
of spacetime caused two black hole spiraling into each other
as they approach each other they shed "gravitational radiation"(energy)
causing the spacetime ripples
and this energy is carried away by the gravitational waves
[www.youtube.com]

but how does this gravitational radiation affect spacetime geometry
which isn't particles or anything else? Other than that's what
GR claims?

3. back to gravity which they claim is mediated thru a gravity field
of graviton thingies
the effect of gravity between ponderable bodies in reality is FTL
whether it is viewed through GR or Newt
so how does that work?
does spacetime geometry react FTL?
is gravity actually a giant form of quantum entanglement?
(which nobody seems upset about its ftl shenanigans)

in theory, nothing not even light, can escape a black hole
except GRAVITY, otherwise it would never attract anything
so gravitational radiation must be able to leave a black hole

so gravity acts faster than light
and is not affected by the same things as light
and unlike light, can grab hold of spacetime and shake it

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
gravity waves "detected" 1433 laughin 11-Feb-16 16:34
Re: gravity waves "detected" 476 Susan Doris 11-Feb-16 17:44
Re: gravity waves "detected" 372 Sirius7237 11-Feb-16 18:30
Re: gravity waves "detected" 453 laughin 11-Feb-16 21:20
Re: gravity waves "detected" 372 JonnyMcA 12-Feb-16 14:23
Re: gravity waves "detected" 412 laughin 12-Feb-16 15:51
Re: gravity waves "detected" 263 JonnyMcA 12-Feb-16 16:31
Re: gravity waves "detected" 371 laughin 13-Feb-16 18:26
Re: gravity waves "detected" 423 JonnyMcA 13-Feb-16 18:41
Re: gravity waves "detected" 454 Me 15-Feb-16 15:57
Re: gravity waves "detected" 346 laughin 15-Feb-16 20:17
Re: gravity waves "detected" 383 carolb 13-Feb-16 21:53
Re: gravity waves "detected" 285 D-Archer 14-Feb-16 11:16
Re: gravity waves "detected" 311 carolb 14-Feb-16 14:54
Re: gravity waves "detected" 295 Sirius7237 14-Feb-16 20:08
Re: gravity waves "detected" 403 carolb 14-Feb-16 22:31
Re: gravity waves "detected" 405 Aine 15-Feb-16 16:20
Re: gravity waves "detected" 327 D-Archer 15-Feb-16 09:59
Re: gravity waves "detected" 312 JonnyMcA 12-Feb-16 14:31
Re: gravity waves "detected" 351 carolb 13-Feb-16 21:29
Re: gravity waves "detected" 279 laughin 14-Feb-16 15:19
Re: gravity waves "detected" 206 skakos 15-Feb-16 14:07
Re: gravity waves "detected" 301 Pete Vanderzwet 11-Feb-16 21:06
Re: gravity waves "detected" 416 JonnyMcA 12-Feb-16 14:38
Onto Dark Energy waves! 353 Eddie Larry 11-Feb-16 21:34
It took 100 years to discover what Einstein already knew 219 David L 12-Feb-16 12:50
Re: It took 100 years to discover what Einstein already knew 298 Spiros 12-Feb-16 17:09
Re: It took 100 years to discover what Einstein already knew 363 D-Archer 15-Feb-16 12:47
Re: It took 100 years to discover what Einstein already knew 374 Aine 15-Feb-16 16:15
Re: It took 100 years to discover what Einstein already knew 326 D-Archer 15-Feb-16 18:53
Re: It took 100 years to discover what Einstein already knew 348 laughin 15-Feb-16 20:39
Re: It took 100 years to discover what Einstein already knew 289 Aine 16-Feb-16 01:48
Re: gravity waves "detected" 405 dong 12-Feb-16 18:36
Re: gravity waves "detected" 386 laughin 13-Feb-16 03:26
Re: gravity waves "detected" 325 dong 16-Feb-16 07:41
Liego 331 laughin 15-Feb-16 04:17
Gravity Waves of Propaganda the Sequel 309 D-Archer 15-Feb-16 09:48
Re: gravity waves "detected" 410 skakos 15-Feb-16 12:58
Re: gravity waves "detected" 364 Aine 15-Feb-16 22:31
Re: gravity waves "detected" 225 carolb 16-Feb-16 00:57
Re: gravity waves "detected" 311 D-Archer 16-Feb-16 11:47
Re: gravity waves "detected" 408 carolb 16-Feb-16 12:32
Re: gravity waves "detected" 273 D-Archer 16-Feb-16 14:13
Re: gravity waves "detected" 279 carolb 16-Feb-16 14:42
Re: gravity waves "detected" 260 D-Archer 16-Feb-16 15:17
Re: gravity waves "detected" 349 carolb 16-Feb-16 16:27
Re: gravity waves "detected" 385 D-Archer 17-Feb-16 14:08
Really? 263 Sirfiroth 17-Feb-16 15:11
Re: Really? 383 JonnyMcA 17-Feb-16 15:32
Re: Really? 365 D-Archer 17-Feb-16 15:42
Re: gravity waves "detected" 393 carolb 17-Feb-16 18:05
mods! 325 D-Archer 18-Feb-16 11:13
Re: mods! 413 carolb 18-Feb-16 14:14
Re: mods! 389 D-Archer 18-Feb-16 16:02
Re: gravity waves "detected" 507 Sirfiroth 17-Feb-16 01:06
Re: gravity waves "detected" 327 Aine 17-Feb-16 14:48
Re: gravity waves "detected" 363 JonnyMcA 17-Feb-16 15:19
Re: gravity waves "detected" 254 Sirfiroth 17-Feb-16 15:39
Re: gravity waves "detected" 308 JonnyMcA 17-Feb-16 17:37
Re: gravity waves "detected" 403 Aine 17-Feb-16 18:49
Re: gravity waves "detected" 355 laughin 16-Feb-16 20:24
Re: gravity waves "detected" 204 D-Archer 17-Feb-16 16:23
Gravy Waves 500 D-Archer 20-Feb-16 11:39
Playing devil’s advocate on the discovery of gravitational waves 448 laughin 02-Mar-16 18:23
Scientists: we're 100% convinced 291 laughin 07-Mar-16 17:13
Black holes and big bangs can't co-exist 387 laughin 13-Mar-16 04:52
Re: gravity waves "detected" 315 brett z 20-Apr-16 23:42
Re: gravity waves "detected" 331 laughin 21-Apr-16 14:02
Re: gravity waves "detected" 246 OCaptain 10-May-16 12:45
Re: gravity waves "detected" 187 laughin 10-May-16 13:16
Re: gravity waves "detected" 262 OCaptain 10-May-16 13:21
Re: gravity waves "detected" 304 laughin 10-May-16 19:25
Re: gravity waves "detected" 438 OCaptain 10-May-16 22:56
Re: gravity waves "detected" 315 laughin 11-May-16 15:32
Re: gravity waves "detected" 395 JonnyMcA 11-May-16 16:53
Re: gravity waves "detected" 421 laughin 12-May-16 16:26
pompousness "detected" 357 laughin 18-May-16 15:25
bump- 2 weeks 458 laughin 27-May-16 15:02
Re: bump- 3 weeks 393 laughin 02-Jun-16 23:20
Re: bump- 4 weeks and why isn't Carolb patrolling the threads 406 laughin 10-Jun-16 15:42
Gravitational Waves from Black Hole Megamergers Are Weaker Than Predicted 367 laughin 04-May-16 13:15
Re: Gravitational Waves from Black Hole Megamergers Are Weaker Than Predicted 403 D-Archer 09-May-16 19:05
Re: Gravitational Waves from Black Hole Megamergers Are Weaker Than Predicted 194 OCaptain 10-May-16 12:46
Re: Gravitational Waves from Black Hole Megamergers Are Weaker Than Predicted 422 laughin 10-May-16 13:27
Re: Gravitational Waves from Black Hole Megamergers Are Weaker Than Predicted 254 OCaptain 10-May-16 16:39
Re: Gravitational Waves from Black Hole Megamergers Are Weaker Than Predicted 324 laughin 10-May-16 19:10
how many times can you change the rules and still get a black hole 306 laughin 08-Jun-16 14:00
LIGO press conf, June 15 332 brett z 15-Jun-16 11:53
Re: LIGO press conf, June 15 334 D-Archer 15-Jun-16 14:48


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