> laughin Wrote:
> > But some kind radiation has, in the past, been
> > what they tried to make gravity to be
> > all part of the "unification of the forces)
> > process
> This is incorrect. they are talking about teh
> unification of different forces/interactions. You
> use the word radiation as if it has only one
> meaning pertaining to EM. Alpha and beta
> radiation for example are particles, you get
> proton, and heavy ion radiation treatment for some
> cancers. The Weak force is mediated by W and Z
> bosons, and these are not EM radiation, but yet
> The EM force is unified with the Weak force at
> high energies. Your view is far too simplistic
> and misunderstood.
> > whatever it is, HAS to travel faster than
> > because the effect of gravity does
> > ,1040448#msg-1040448
> Actually no. Gravity in a Newtonian gravity
> framework is instantaneous. In general relativity
> it has a finite speed, that of the speed of light.
> Gravitational waves cannot exist is Newtonian
> gravity. that is why this result is such a
> milestone, as it once again proves that the
> framework for general relativity is correct, and
> that Newtonian gravity is not correct, although
> the latter is a good approximation for slow speeds
> and small mass.
> > So they are saying that space is rippling, not
> > that some particle is traveling THRU space FTL
> > also, remember, space isn't made of particles
> > get any ideas of aether out of your head right
> > now)
> > If a ripple of "space" (chuckle) can travel
> > than light can travel through it
> > then GR isn't violated,
> > the effect can be as fast as needed
> > and if no particles are exchanged
> > no bosons or gravitons needed
> > (bosons!, we don't need no stinking bosons)
> > which explains why they haven't been found!!!!
> Like all waves, gravitational waves are energy
> propagation through space. In the case of
> gravitational waves, this is manifested through
> the waving of space-time, just like an
> electromagnetic wave is a waving teh the
> electromagnetic field. Just like the
> electromagnetic field, no medium is required to
> carry the wave (unlike sound waves for example).
> As to why gravitons havent been found. Since
> gravitons are the quantised vibration of the
> gravitational field (much as photons are the
> quantised vibration of the EM field), and since an
> ensemble of gravitons would make up a
> gravitational wave (much like an ensemble of
> photons make up an EM wave), and since we have
> only just developed apparatus sensitive enough to
> detect gravitational waves, I think you are asking
> too much as to why we have not yet found
> > Hey, I'm just trying to interpret their
> > before the Nobel
> > (it looks better to have the story straight
> > beforehand)
> > now the big question...?
> > what's shakin'? (an old hippy expression :) )
> > what (and how) is grabbing ahold of space and
> > shaking it?
> > especially since there is nothing to grab ahold
> > of.....
> It is an interesting question, and general
> relativity is not the end of the subject on how
> nature works, since at the quatum level it breaks
> down. When, or if, we ever develope a completely
> consistant theory of quantum gravity your big
> question may be answered...or not.
> BTW, its best to refer to them as gravitational
> waves. Gravity waves are something entirely
Hey, I'm just trying to interpret their "findings"
> before the Nobel
> (it looks better to have the story straight
there is a lot of confusion about this "story"
1. what is actually detected (measured)
in theory the interferometer is measuring the stretching
and contracting of "space"
this is shown by the phase difference
between a split beam of light in two different directions
2. they claim this difference is from "ripples" in the fabric
of spacetime caused two black hole spiraling into each other
as they approach each other they shed "gravitational radiation"(energy)
causing the spacetime ripples
and this energy is carried away by the gravitational waves
but how does this gravitational radiation affect spacetime geometry
which isn't particles or anything else? Other than that's what
3. back to gravity which they claim is mediated thru a gravity field
of graviton thingies
the effect of gravity between ponderable bodies in reality is FTL
whether it is viewed through GR or Newt
so how does that work?
does spacetime geometry react FTL?
is gravity actually a giant form of quantum entanglement?
(which nobody seems upset about its ftl shenanigans)
in theory, nothing not even light, can escape a black hole
except GRAVITY, otherwise it would never attract anything
so gravitational radiation must be able to leave a black hole
so gravity acts faster than light
and is not affected by the same things as light
and unlike light, can grab hold of spacetime and shake it