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carolb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Starbinder Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > carolb Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Starbinder Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Here you go Carol and anyone else
> interested.
> > > JP
> > > > Bibring states (in June 2015) that there is
> > no
> > > > surface ice anywhere to be found on the
> > comet,
> > > > even in the cracks where they've looked
> deep
> > > (I'm
> > > > assuming that's with the OSIRIS images that
> > > they
> > > > aren't showing us). He also says that the
> > comet
> > > > models that have been written about for
> > > decades,
> > > > which he says he had done many times, are
> > wrong
> > > > and that the model of the comet being 80%
> ice
> > > is
> > > > wrong. He goes on to say that ice is not
> the
> > > > binding force it is likely the grains they
> > see
> > > on
> > > > the surface.
> > > >
> > > > 1:06:00 to 1:09:00
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> [www.esa.int]
> play_of_Rosetta_conference
> > >
> > >
> > > Please see Jonny's post here, from last June,
> > > regarding that very issue:
> > >
> > >
> >
> [url=http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?3,72
> 1236,724503#msg-724503]Jonny's post[/url]
> > >
> > > Carol
> >
> >
> > The Rosetta teams seem to have had big
> surprises
> > in September 2014 and again in August 2015.
> > Surprises so big that they've admitted now that
> > they were "in denial" with respect to September
> > for the time being. The August data has yet to
> be
> > reported or even commented on.
> >
> > The following quote is from the ESA Rosetta
> Blog
> > concerning abundant oxygen (September 2014
> data)
> > and jet outbursts (July/August 2015 data).
> >
> > "Quite apart from the devastation effect which
> > this finding of abundant molecular oxygen above
> > the surface of the 67P nucleus is having on the
> > current paradigm not only of how comets, but
> also
> > the solar system itself formed, I consider the
> > most revealing aspect of this finding to be its
> > implications for how mainstream science is
> > conducted. As Kathrin Altwegg admitted, the
> team
> > was “in denial” for many long months, so
> > utterly impossible did the finding appear and
> so
> > totally inconsistent was it with everything
> that
> > the “consensus” opinion believed about the
> > composition of comet nuclei. As André Bieler
> > admitted, “As soon as we got close enough to
> the
> > comet, we actually found it right away” .
> That
> > was way back in September 2014, some fourteen
> > months before the finding was finally
> disclosed."
> >
> > "Now as I (and others) have already pointed out
> on
> > several occasions in other threads, there has
> so
> > far also been a curious absence of data
> disclosed
> > on the temperature and plasma characteristics
> of
> > the “jets” (in particular the spectacular
> > outbursts observed during the July 29, August
> 12
> > and August 22 events). The only comment made in
> > the blog-post on the “extraordinarily
> bright”
> > August 22 event was that that the team was
> “busy
> > analyzing the data to understand the nature of
> > these events”, meaning that the collected
> data
> > was (and probably still is) literally
> > incomprehensible for them. When the extremely
> high
> > temperature and the extremely active plasma
> data
> > are at last published (probably several more
> > months in the future), it will be seen that in
> > that respect too, the team was “in denial”.
> It
> > may take a very long time, but we will
> ultimately
> > be told the truth about the real nature of
> 67P."
>
>
> Can you provide a link, please, to the specific
> blogs with those quotations?
>
> Edit: I found a link elsewhere:
>
> [url]http://news.discovery.com/space/rosettas-comet-spe[/url]
> ws-molecular-oxygen-surprise-151028.htm
>
> To be honest, I think you're over-exaggerating,
> and taking out of context the extent of the
> 'denial' you mention. It didn't last 'for many
> long months'. They were surprised at the data
> they were finding. Hardly surprising, given the
> 'first' that was Rosetta.
>
> [quote]“It is the most surprising discovery we
> have made so far in 67P,” said Rosetta scientist
> Kathrin Altwegg, with the Physics Institute and
> Center for Space and Habitability at the
> University of Bern in Germany.
> “The first time we really saw it I think we all
> went a little bit into denial because ... oxygen
> was not among the molecules suspected in a
> cometary coma,” Altwegg said. “All models show
> that molecular oxygen will react with the hydrogen
> and will no longer be present.”>
> [/quote]
>
> Why do you think scientists are supposed to get
> everything right first time? How do you think
> science progresses, if not from learning from new
> data and results? If everything remained static,
> astronomers would still be using the same model of
> the solar system that they did before the space
> age. Knowledge and information have increased by
> leaps and bounds since the 1950's, and will
> continue to do so, as old models are challenged
> with the availability of new data. Why is that so
> hard to admit?
>
>
> Carol

'They were surprised at the data they were finding' ... because ??

It didn't fit their model, not just because it was the first time they'd seen this type of data. The denial is inherent in the amount of time it took them to realize what they'd discovered, wrap their heads around it and were able to report on it.

Kathrin says it all in your quote.

> “The first time we really saw it I think we all
> went a little bit into denial because ... oxygen
> was not among the molecules suspected in a
> cometary coma,” Altwegg said. “All models show
> that molecular oxygen will react with the hydrogen
> and will no longer be present.”

Maybe they aren't the only ones in denial?

What might the response to considerably higher than expected temperatures within the jets be? More surprise and denial because it's the first time they see this data (in situ) or because it doesn't fit their model?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06-Nov-15 19:41 by Starbinder.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 1774 Laird Scranton 28-Oct-15 23:02
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 400 OCaptain 28-Oct-15 23:09
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 279 carolb 28-Oct-15 23:12
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 380 Laird Scranton 28-Oct-15 23:51
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 278 Laird Scranton 28-Oct-15 23:42
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 262 carolb 28-Oct-15 23:49
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 250 Laird Scranton 29-Oct-15 00:42
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 316 laughin 29-Oct-15 16:29
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 307 Starbinder 29-Oct-15 17:42
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 249 OCaptain 29-Oct-15 18:08
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 215 laughin 29-Oct-15 18:49
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 232 OCaptain 29-Oct-15 23:13
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 236 laughin 31-Oct-15 15:26
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 264 drrayeye 31-Oct-15 16:49
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 199 OCaptain 31-Oct-15 16:58
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 208 laughin 31-Oct-15 18:24
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 205 OCaptain 31-Oct-15 19:07
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 226 laughin 01-Nov-15 03:12
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 236 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 05:37
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 277 laughin 01-Nov-15 16:16
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 180 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 16:31
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 216 Aine 30-Oct-15 14:06
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 198 laughin 30-Oct-15 14:53
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 278 Aine 30-Oct-15 15:35
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 219 carolb 30-Oct-15 15:36
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 227 laughin 30-Oct-15 18:55
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 242 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 16:44
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 282 Aine 30-Oct-15 17:04
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 235 carolb 30-Oct-15 17:21
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 171 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 18:47
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 220 laughin 30-Oct-15 18:44
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 213 Laird Scranton 29-Oct-15 19:46
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 233 laughin 29-Oct-15 20:48
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 221 Laird Scranton 29-Oct-15 22:07
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 197 carolb 29-Oct-15 22:24
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 217 Starbinder 30-Oct-15 00:46
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 220 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 01:01
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 305 Aine 30-Oct-15 14:11
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 211 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 15:42
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 324 carolb 30-Oct-15 16:32
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 193 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 16:51
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 213 carolb 30-Oct-15 16:57
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 176 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 17:02
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 296 carolb 30-Oct-15 17:20
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 183 OCaptain 30-Oct-15 20:07
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 174 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 20:37
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 265 OCaptain 31-Oct-15 00:51
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 183 OCaptain 30-Oct-15 20:06
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 228 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 20:34
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 276 carolb 30-Oct-15 20:47
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 175 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 21:09
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 211 carolb 30-Oct-15 23:23
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 200 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 00:49
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 198 carolb 31-Oct-15 01:01
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 165 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 01:10
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 306 carolb 31-Oct-15 01:38
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 166 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 02:56
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 194 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 03:58
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 273 carolb 31-Oct-15 12:01
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 184 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 15:19
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 172 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 15:47
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 224 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 16:02
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 203 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 18:26
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 235 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 21:48
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 183 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 00:27
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 195 carolb 01-Nov-15 01:00
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 196 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 01:36
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 254 skakos 03-Nov-15 09:51
Conspiracy... 188 skakos 03-Nov-15 11:19
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 174 OCaptain 30-Oct-15 20:02
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 264 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 20:30
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 166 OCaptain 31-Oct-15 00:56
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 186 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 02:04
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 177 OCaptain 31-Oct-15 12:14
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 189 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 15:41
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 147 OCaptain 31-Oct-15 20:03
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 191 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 21:26
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 180 OCaptain 01-Nov-15 12:10
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 194 drrayeye 01-Nov-15 13:50
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 215 carolb 01-Nov-15 15:11
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 195 drrayeye 01-Nov-15 16:52
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 201 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 16:56
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 243 carolb 01-Nov-15 17:14
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 175 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 18:27
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 187 drrayeye 01-Nov-15 21:57
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 157 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 16:03
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 195 OCaptain 01-Nov-15 19:35
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 276 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 20:34
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 202 Starbinder 30-Oct-15 19:27
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 227 carolb 30-Oct-15 20:01
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 176 laughin 30-Oct-15 20:17
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 204 Starbinder 30-Oct-15 20:24
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 235 carolb 30-Oct-15 20:46
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 241 Starbinder 30-Oct-15 21:14
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 205 carolb 30-Oct-15 23:11
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 181 Starbinder 31-Oct-15 01:05
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 192 Starbinder 02-Nov-15 19:40
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 222 carolb 02-Nov-15 21:21
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 187 Starbinder 06-Nov-15 14:53
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 339 carolb 06-Nov-15 15:16
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 184 Starbinder 06-Nov-15 18:50
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 200 carolb 06-Nov-15 20:10
What about scientism? 201 drrayeye 07-Nov-15 08:19
Re: What about scientism? 209 carolb 07-Nov-15 12:59
Re: What about scientism? 225 OCaptain 07-Nov-15 13:55
Re: What about scientism? 293 carolb 07-Nov-15 17:37
Re: What about scientism? 221 drrayeye 07-Nov-15 19:55
"Blue sky thinking" 213 randompHactor 07-Nov-15 20:15
Re: What about scientism? 212 carolb 07-Nov-15 20:41
Re: What about scientism? 190 drrayeye 07-Nov-15 23:36
Re: What about scientism? 183 carolb 07-Nov-15 23:45
Re: What about scientism? 230 laughin 09-Nov-15 02:51
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 325 laughin 30-Oct-15 15:03
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 286 OCaptain 29-Oct-15 23:20
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 422 Laird Scranton 29-Oct-15 23:51
SUMMARY? 211 skakos 02-Nov-15 21:33
Mod Note > skakos – Switch View 215 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Nov-15 22:33
Re: SUMMARY? 307 Laird Scranton 02-Nov-15 23:22
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 313 Laird Scranton 29-Oct-15 19:32
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 167 Laird Scranton 02-Nov-15 16:53
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 275 drrayeye 02-Nov-15 19:52
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 147 Laird Scranton 02-Nov-15 21:02
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 258 Laird Scranton 03-Nov-15 14:44
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 158 drrayeye 03-Nov-15 16:09
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 187 OCaptain 03-Nov-15 18:32
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 179 Laird Scranton 03-Nov-15 18:46
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 315 laughin 03-Nov-15 19:28
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 154 laughin 03-Nov-15 19:02
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 212 Laird Scranton 03-Nov-15 21:02
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 179 Laird Scranton 03-Nov-15 04:58
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 196 Ratcho 03-Nov-15 06:18
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 166 Laird Scranton 03-Nov-15 14:30
Regarding myths... 189 skakos 03-Nov-15 11:46
Re: Regarding myths... 181 Laird Scranton 03-Nov-15 17:00
Re: off topic... 168 Ratcho 03-Nov-15 20:15
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 243 skakos 04-Nov-15 13:28
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 191 skakos 04-Nov-15 15:07
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 176 skakos 04-Nov-15 15:11
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 586 skakos 04-Nov-15 22:22
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 299 Laird Scranton 05-Nov-15 01:11
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 196 skakos 05-Nov-15 14:10
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 188 Laird Scranton 05-Nov-15 14:23
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 280 skakos 05-Nov-15 19:32
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 175 Laird Scranton 05-Nov-15 19:42
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 262 Laird Scranton 04-Nov-15 21:23
Cosmic Disconnect 199 laughin 06-Nov-15 15:00
Re: Cosmic Disconnect 155 OCaptain 07-Nov-15 13:49
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 352 skakos 16-Nov-15 12:46
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 282 OCaptain 16-Nov-15 13:54
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 307 skakos 16-Nov-15 15:36
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 370 OCaptain 17-Nov-15 01:23
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 298 skakos 18-Nov-15 18:32
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 319 Ratcho 18-Nov-15 18:45
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 280 OCaptain 19-Nov-15 00:49
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 338 skakos 19-Nov-15 07:24
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 484 skakos 27-Dec-15 22:04


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