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carolb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Starbinder Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > carolb Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Starbinder Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Here you go Carol and anyone else
> interested.
> > > JP
> > > > Bibring states (in June 2015) that there is
> > no
> > > > surface ice anywhere to be found on the
> > comet,
> > > > even in the cracks where they've looked
> deep
> > > (I'm
> > > > assuming that's with the OSIRIS images that
> > > they
> > > > aren't showing us). He also says that the
> > comet
> > > > models that have been written about for
> > > decades,
> > > > which he says he had done many times, are
> > wrong
> > > > and that the model of the comet being 80%
> ice
> > > is
> > > > wrong. He goes on to say that ice is not
> the
> > > > binding force it is likely the grains they
> > see
> > > on
> > > > the surface.
> > > >
> > > > 1:06:00 to 1:09:00
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> [www.esa.int]
> play_of_Rosetta_conference
> > >
> > >
> > > Please see Jonny's post here, from last June,
> > > regarding that very issue:
> > >
> > >
> >
> [url=http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?3,72
> 1236,724503#msg-724503]Jonny's post[/url]
> > >
> > > Carol
> >
> >
> > The Rosetta teams seem to have had big
> surprises
> > in September 2014 and again in August 2015.
> > Surprises so big that they've admitted now that
> > they were "in denial" with respect to September
> > for the time being. The August data has yet to
> be
> > reported or even commented on.
> >
> > The following quote is from the ESA Rosetta
> Blog
> > concerning abundant oxygen (September 2014
> data)
> > and jet outbursts (July/August 2015 data).
> >
> > "Quite apart from the devastation effect which
> > this finding of abundant molecular oxygen above
> > the surface of the 67P nucleus is having on the
> > current paradigm not only of how comets, but
> also
> > the solar system itself formed, I consider the
> > most revealing aspect of this finding to be its
> > implications for how mainstream science is
> > conducted. As Kathrin Altwegg admitted, the
> team
> > was “in denial” for many long months, so
> > utterly impossible did the finding appear and
> so
> > totally inconsistent was it with everything
> that
> > the “consensus” opinion believed about the
> > composition of comet nuclei. As André Bieler
> > admitted, “As soon as we got close enough to
> the
> > comet, we actually found it right away” .
> That
> > was way back in September 2014, some fourteen
> > months before the finding was finally
> disclosed."
> >
> > "Now as I (and others) have already pointed out
> on
> > several occasions in other threads, there has
> so
> > far also been a curious absence of data
> disclosed
> > on the temperature and plasma characteristics
> of
> > the “jets” (in particular the spectacular
> > outbursts observed during the July 29, August
> 12
> > and August 22 events). The only comment made in
> > the blog-post on the “extraordinarily
> bright”
> > August 22 event was that that the team was
> “busy
> > analyzing the data to understand the nature of
> > these events”, meaning that the collected
> data
> > was (and probably still is) literally
> > incomprehensible for them. When the extremely
> high
> > temperature and the extremely active plasma
> data
> > are at last published (probably several more
> > months in the future), it will be seen that in
> > that respect too, the team was “in denial”.
> It
> > may take a very long time, but we will
> ultimately
> > be told the truth about the real nature of
> 67P."
>
>
> Can you provide a link, please, to the specific
> blogs with those quotations?
>
> Edit: I found a link elsewhere:
>
> [url]http://news.discovery.com/space/rosettas-comet-spe[/url]
> ws-molecular-oxygen-surprise-151028.htm
>
> To be honest, I think you're over-exaggerating,
> and taking out of context the extent of the
> 'denial' you mention. It didn't last 'for many
> long months'. They were surprised at the data
> they were finding. Hardly surprising, given the
> 'first' that was Rosetta.
>
> [quote]“It is the most surprising discovery we
> have made so far in 67P,” said Rosetta scientist
> Kathrin Altwegg, with the Physics Institute and
> Center for Space and Habitability at the
> University of Bern in Germany.
> “The first time we really saw it I think we all
> went a little bit into denial because ... oxygen
> was not among the molecules suspected in a
> cometary coma,” Altwegg said. “All models show
> that molecular oxygen will react with the hydrogen
> and will no longer be present.”>
> [/quote]
>
> Why do you think scientists are supposed to get
> everything right first time? How do you think
> science progresses, if not from learning from new
> data and results? If everything remained static,
> astronomers would still be using the same model of
> the solar system that they did before the space
> age. Knowledge and information have increased by
> leaps and bounds since the 1950's, and will
> continue to do so, as old models are challenged
> with the availability of new data. Why is that so
> hard to admit?
>
>
> Carol

'They were surprised at the data they were finding' ... because ??

It didn't fit their model, not just because it was the first time they'd seen this type of data. The denial is inherent in the amount of time it took them to realize what they'd discovered, wrap their heads around it and were able to report on it.

Kathrin says it all in your quote.

> “The first time we really saw it I think we all
> went a little bit into denial because ... oxygen
> was not among the molecules suspected in a
> cometary coma,” Altwegg said. “All models show
> that molecular oxygen will react with the hydrogen
> and will no longer be present.”

Maybe they aren't the only ones in denial?

What might the response to considerably higher than expected temperatures within the jets be? More surprise and denial because it's the first time they see this data (in situ) or because it doesn't fit their model?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06-Nov-15 19:41 by Starbinder.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 1989 Laird Scranton 28-Oct-15 23:02
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 465 OCaptain 28-Oct-15 23:09
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 317 carolb 28-Oct-15 23:12
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 437 Laird Scranton 28-Oct-15 23:51
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 317 Laird Scranton 28-Oct-15 23:42
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 305 carolb 28-Oct-15 23:49
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 299 Laird Scranton 29-Oct-15 00:42
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 353 laughin 29-Oct-15 16:29
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 350 Starbinder 29-Oct-15 17:42
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 291 OCaptain 29-Oct-15 18:08
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 259 laughin 29-Oct-15 18:49
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 273 OCaptain 29-Oct-15 23:13
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 282 laughin 31-Oct-15 15:26
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 314 drrayeye 31-Oct-15 16:49
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 236 OCaptain 31-Oct-15 16:58
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 250 laughin 31-Oct-15 18:24
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 243 OCaptain 31-Oct-15 19:07
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 277 laughin 01-Nov-15 03:12
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 284 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 05:37
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 326 laughin 01-Nov-15 16:16
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 233 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 16:31
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 255 Aine 30-Oct-15 14:06
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 239 laughin 30-Oct-15 14:53
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 328 Aine 30-Oct-15 15:35
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 254 carolb 30-Oct-15 15:36
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 265 laughin 30-Oct-15 18:55
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 286 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 16:44
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 336 Aine 30-Oct-15 17:04
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 289 carolb 30-Oct-15 17:21
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 214 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 18:47
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 264 laughin 30-Oct-15 18:44
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 266 Laird Scranton 29-Oct-15 19:46
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 271 laughin 29-Oct-15 20:48
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 263 Laird Scranton 29-Oct-15 22:07
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 266 carolb 29-Oct-15 22:24
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 272 Starbinder 30-Oct-15 00:46
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 257 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 01:01
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 362 Aine 30-Oct-15 14:11
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 262 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 15:42
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 400 carolb 30-Oct-15 16:32
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 237 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 16:51
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 266 carolb 30-Oct-15 16:57
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 233 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 17:02
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 342 carolb 30-Oct-15 17:20
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 224 OCaptain 30-Oct-15 20:07
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 210 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 20:37
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 309 OCaptain 31-Oct-15 00:51
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 222 OCaptain 30-Oct-15 20:06
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 267 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 20:34
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 324 carolb 30-Oct-15 20:47
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 215 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 21:09
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 244 carolb 30-Oct-15 23:23
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 241 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 00:49
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 238 carolb 31-Oct-15 01:01
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 206 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 01:10
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 350 carolb 31-Oct-15 01:38
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 211 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 02:56
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 242 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 03:58
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 321 carolb 31-Oct-15 12:01
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 223 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 15:19
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 215 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 15:47
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 268 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 16:02
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 250 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 18:26
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 277 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 21:48
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 219 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 00:27
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 239 carolb 01-Nov-15 01:00
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 238 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 01:36
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 291 skakos 03-Nov-15 09:51
Conspiracy... 225 skakos 03-Nov-15 11:19
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 215 OCaptain 30-Oct-15 20:02
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 316 Laird Scranton 30-Oct-15 20:30
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 206 OCaptain 31-Oct-15 00:56
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 246 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 02:04
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 227 OCaptain 31-Oct-15 12:14
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 239 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 15:41
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 182 OCaptain 31-Oct-15 20:03
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 232 Laird Scranton 31-Oct-15 21:26
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 235 OCaptain 01-Nov-15 12:10
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 245 drrayeye 01-Nov-15 13:50
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 270 carolb 01-Nov-15 15:11
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 248 drrayeye 01-Nov-15 16:52
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 247 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 16:56
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 284 carolb 01-Nov-15 17:14
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 222 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 18:27
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 226 drrayeye 01-Nov-15 21:57
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 201 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 16:03
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 245 OCaptain 01-Nov-15 19:35
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 332 Laird Scranton 01-Nov-15 20:34
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 242 Starbinder 30-Oct-15 19:27
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 294 carolb 30-Oct-15 20:01
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 216 laughin 30-Oct-15 20:17
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 260 Starbinder 30-Oct-15 20:24
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 289 carolb 30-Oct-15 20:46
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 294 Starbinder 30-Oct-15 21:14
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 243 carolb 30-Oct-15 23:11
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 226 Starbinder 31-Oct-15 01:05
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 235 Starbinder 02-Nov-15 19:40
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 262 carolb 02-Nov-15 21:21
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 232 Starbinder 06-Nov-15 14:53
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 392 carolb 06-Nov-15 15:16
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 224 Starbinder 06-Nov-15 18:50
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 238 carolb 06-Nov-15 20:10
What about scientism? 263 drrayeye 07-Nov-15 08:19
Re: What about scientism? 259 carolb 07-Nov-15 12:59
Re: What about scientism? 297 OCaptain 07-Nov-15 13:55
Re: What about scientism? 352 carolb 07-Nov-15 17:37
Re: What about scientism? 268 drrayeye 07-Nov-15 19:55
"Blue sky thinking" 261 randompHactor 07-Nov-15 20:15
Re: What about scientism? 255 carolb 07-Nov-15 20:41
Re: What about scientism? 239 drrayeye 07-Nov-15 23:36
Re: What about scientism? 239 carolb 07-Nov-15 23:45
Re: What about scientism? 277 laughin 09-Nov-15 02:51
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 371 laughin 30-Oct-15 15:03
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 338 OCaptain 29-Oct-15 23:20
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 493 Laird Scranton 29-Oct-15 23:51
SUMMARY? 249 skakos 02-Nov-15 21:33
Mod Note > skakos – Switch View 268 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Nov-15 22:33
Re: SUMMARY? 360 Laird Scranton 02-Nov-15 23:22
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 368 Laird Scranton 29-Oct-15 19:32
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 211 Laird Scranton 02-Nov-15 16:53
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 346 drrayeye 02-Nov-15 19:52
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 184 Laird Scranton 02-Nov-15 21:02
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 302 Laird Scranton 03-Nov-15 14:44
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 193 drrayeye 03-Nov-15 16:09
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 235 OCaptain 03-Nov-15 18:32
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 232 Laird Scranton 03-Nov-15 18:46
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 374 laughin 03-Nov-15 19:28
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 207 laughin 03-Nov-15 19:02
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 255 Laird Scranton 03-Nov-15 21:02
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 225 Laird Scranton 03-Nov-15 04:58
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 248 Ratcho 03-Nov-15 06:18
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 217 Laird Scranton 03-Nov-15 14:30
Regarding myths... 228 skakos 03-Nov-15 11:46
Re: Regarding myths... 221 Laird Scranton 03-Nov-15 17:00
Re: off topic... 203 Ratcho 03-Nov-15 20:15
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 299 skakos 04-Nov-15 13:28
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 246 skakos 04-Nov-15 15:07
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 221 skakos 04-Nov-15 15:11
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 776 skakos 04-Nov-15 22:22
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 355 Laird Scranton 05-Nov-15 01:11
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 238 skakos 05-Nov-15 14:10
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 240 Laird Scranton 05-Nov-15 14:23
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 335 skakos 05-Nov-15 19:32
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 231 Laird Scranton 05-Nov-15 19:42
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 326 Laird Scranton 04-Nov-15 21:23
Cosmic Disconnect 252 laughin 06-Nov-15 15:00
Re: Cosmic Disconnect 207 OCaptain 07-Nov-15 13:49
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 407 skakos 16-Nov-15 12:46
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 323 OCaptain 16-Nov-15 13:54
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 363 skakos 16-Nov-15 15:36
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 426 OCaptain 17-Nov-15 01:23
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 359 skakos 18-Nov-15 18:32
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 366 Ratcho 18-Nov-15 18:45
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 313 OCaptain 19-Nov-15 00:49
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 392 skakos 19-Nov-15 07:24
Re: More comet evidence in support of Velikovsky 530 skakos 27-Dec-15 22:04


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