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>Perhaps you could clairify what "All necessary means" actually means?

er ? I really end up wondering if you read what people write before jumping to the reply button, Pete. Could you please give me the courtesy of reading this one entirely before you do that again ? That'd be the least you can do, thank you.

Now, for the answer. That would have been the endorsment of war, of course. It was so in the previous Gulf war, these were the words used. As for 1441, there was an *explicit* understanding that it would *not* endorse military actions automatically. Why are you trying to act like there was no such understanding ? There was, if there had not been, 1441 would have been vetoed, just like its predecessor showed: that predecessor used the words "all means necessary", it did NOT pass. Hence the different language which was used for 1441 : "serious consequences". These serious consequences would be discussed and voted upon if the inspectors were not able to verify the disarmement, and there is a number of things it can mean. Certainly, it is not up to 3 countries in the UN to make up what these consequences would be. That's why there's a UN, ya'know...

It seems however that the jingoists have found the perfect way to fudge the issue. They pulled 1441 and simply claimed it was a mandate for war. In the chambers of the UN council, people know an aweful lot better, of course, but public opinion is now divided over it, just enough that the US can go about its warmongering business with a pretense that at least a doubt exists as to the illegality of it. None does, in fact, but then again, as long as noone notices, everything's fine. When you realize that the US accuses Iraq of playing games with diplomacy (which it actually probably is), it is unacceptable that the US is engaged in the very same activity.

However it seems that the current US administration has no respect whatsoever for the concept of multilateral decisions, heck they won't even risk giving the opportunity to the UN to vote against them in order to be able to continue fudging the issue of UN support. And it's not like they were planning to quit it should they go to the vote, they had already prepared the media with their invention of the concept of "moral majority", which would not in any event have had any legal standing whatsoever.

Frankly, I would have liked to see this one picked apart by the council...

But apparently, it was decided that it was an even less believable lie than that of 1441 authorizing war by implication.

But don't fool yourself, there will be a reckoning, History is not about to let this one go. Of course, Bush doesn't risk much since the US has opposed so fiercely the international criminal court, he'll go unpunished for as long as the US plays solo. Blair is another matter. When more than half the community of international lawyers tell you a war is illegal, you should stop and think, it makes NO sense to rush to war in a matter of days, especially when almost everybody is telling you that they would probably back your war if you could just wait a month or two (a position I disagree with anyway but that was shockingly dismissed [with an attitude] by the White House). There is NO urgency that justifies taking such a potentially highly illegal decision. I am not talking about political controverse here, Pete, but about judicial one. That you *chose* to believe that 1441 endorses war is your problem. You are not making it so.

You are not even making it more likely

Francis.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
War and Terrorism II 136 hera 14-Mar-03 01:30
Re: War and Terrorism II 79 Artificer 14-Mar-03 02:06
Posting content 72 Richard Fusniak -Fuzzy 14-Mar-03 11:43
Re: Posting content 64 Artificer 14-Mar-03 16:56
Biological Warfare: The Good Guys Version 90 Don Barone 14-Mar-03 02:09
And the beat goes on.... 84 Timothy 14-Mar-03 02:58
The beat goes on.... 99 Akula 14-Mar-03 23:49
"THE OVERTHROW OF THE AMERICAN REPUBLIC", Part 27 57 Don Barone 14-Mar-03 03:05
Death of UN Inspector not Making Headlines! 80 Cookiemonsters 14-Mar-03 07:56
LeVine: Planning for Victory (please comment) 94 ananda 14-Mar-03 11:22
No wonder that even Canada is alarmed. 95 Don Barone 14-Mar-03 11:30
Re: No wonder that even Canada is alarmed. 89 ananda 14-Mar-03 11:59
Muller: A Different Perspective 91 ananda 14-Mar-03 16:03
Re: Muller: A Different Perspective 92 Don Barone 14-Mar-03 16:47
Re: Muller: A Different Perspective 93 ananda 14-Mar-03 17:06
Oil : The reality 107 Mossad559 14-Mar-03 16:09
Re: Oil : The reality 64 ananda 14-Mar-03 16:31
Empire and the Multitude 64 Mossad559 14-Mar-03 17:32
Re: Empire - wow 84 ananda 14-Mar-03 18:30
Thoughts about media and distance in history and now 72 ananda 14-Mar-03 23:18
Re: Thoughts about media and distance in history and now 85 Don Barone 15-Mar-03 00:12
Re: Oil : The reality 79 Cleopatra 16-Mar-03 11:17
Re: War and Terrorism II 116 sean 14-Mar-03 16:16
Re: War and Terrorism II 109 sean 14-Mar-03 16:30
The War according to Ananda 94 Timothy 14-Mar-03 16:24
Re: The War according to Ananda 82 ananda 14-Mar-03 16:33
Re: The War according to Ananda 89 Timothy 14-Mar-03 16:45
Do not go gentle into that good night... 93 ananda 14-Mar-03 17:04
Re: Do not go gentle into that good night... 100 Timothy 14-Mar-03 17:15
out of interest..... 88 Geoff 16-Mar-03 23:54
ooops 93 Geoff 17-Mar-03 00:02
Just out of curiousity.... 80 Timothy 14-Mar-03 18:42
Re: Just out of curiousity.... 64 PriorityRed 15-Mar-03 04:50
Re: Just out of curiousity.... 101 Geoff 17-Mar-03 00:24
The League of Nations 84 Akula 17-Mar-03 00:56
George and Blair joke 252 JPeeters 14-Mar-03 22:11
Google collage: free from democracy 74 ananda 14-Mar-03 23:34
Tune in sunday "Israel's Secret Weapon" 76 JPeeters 14-Mar-03 23:08
Re: Also check out Sean's post higher up this thread 102 sean 15-Mar-03 00:04
Fake Iraq documents 'embarrassing' for U.S. 94 Don Barone 14-Mar-03 23:32
First Casualty Of New Gulf War - The Truth 56 PriorityRed 15-Mar-03 04:48
An Essay by Brian Eno 85 Briffits 15-Mar-03 09:14
Statistics on the War on Iraq 139 Cleopatra 15-Mar-03 14:57
Dixie Chicks Flack And Free Speech 90 PriorityRed 15-Mar-03 15:09
Re: Dixie Chicks Flack And Free Speech 91 Don Barone 15-Mar-03 15:23
Hey TIM, DON and RED 100 Cleopatra 15-Mar-03 20:09
Re: Hey TIM, DON and RED 84 Don Barone 15-Mar-03 23:56
WAGING PEACE 84 Cleopatra 16-Mar-03 10:22
Re: WAGING PEACE 109 Cleopatra 16-Mar-03 10:48
Re: Hey TIM, DON and RED 88 PriorityRed 16-Mar-03 05:37
Freed Afghan prisoner claims torture by U.S. interrogators 88 PriorityRed 15-Mar-03 17:22
Not The americans ... 76 Don Barone 16-Mar-03 02:16
THANK YOU, PRESIDENT BUSH 92 Cleopatra 16-Mar-03 10:24
DEAR JESUS, COME BACK LATER 51 Cleopatra 16-Mar-03 10:27
THE THREAT OF RELIGIOUS EXTREMISM 100 Cleopatra 16-Mar-03 10:28
My OFFICIAL Viewpoint! 77 Nobody 16-Mar-03 11:03
Re: My OFFICIAL Viewpoint! 98 Artificer 16-Mar-03 14:10
Re: My OFFICIAL Viewpoint! 94 Nobody 16-Mar-03 20:50
Re: My OFFICIAL Viewpoint! 95 Artificer 17-Mar-03 09:53
Re: My OFFICIAL Viewpoint! 92 joe_at_farquest 17-Mar-03 20:37
Re: My OFFICIAL Viewpoint! 76 Pete Vanderzwet 17-Mar-03 20:50
Re: My OFFICIAL Viewpoint! 77 joe_at_farquest 17-Mar-03 20:57
Re: My OFFICIAL Viewpoint! 94 Nobody 18-Mar-03 19:23
Re: My OFFICIAL Viewpoint! 108 Geoff 16-Mar-03 19:03
Re: My OFFICIAL Viewpoint! 77 Nobody 17-Mar-03 09:37
Patriot Act II - Further Building Of The Police State 95 PriorityRed 16-Mar-03 18:14
US citizen crushed by bulldozer in Gaza! 99 JPeeters 16-Mar-03 18:58
Re: US citizen crushed by bulldozer in Gaza! 94 PriorityRed 16-Mar-03 19:10
Re: US citizen crushed by bulldozer in Gaza! 86 Pete Vanderzwet 17-Mar-03 02:30
GET A LIFE you sad.... 67 Geoff 17-Mar-03 02:35
Israeli military no better than militants 96 Geoff 16-Mar-03 19:13
Re: Israeli military no better than militants 64 PriorityRed 16-Mar-03 20:43
Anyone find this explanation a bit lacking in the logical department???? 88 JPeeters 17-Mar-03 01:03
Re: Anyone find this explanation a bit lacking in the logical department???? 88 Pete Vanderzwet 17-Mar-03 02:29
you ARE the PITS PV.....n/t 76 Geoff 17-Mar-03 02:34
Re: you ARE the PITS PV.....n/t 94 Pete Vanderzwet 17-Mar-03 02:36
Re: you ARE the PITS PV.....n/t 101 PriorityRed 17-Mar-03 05:59
Self Affirmation 65 Kevin Kanada 17-Mar-03 18:20
Re: Self Affirmation 78 Pete Vanderzwet 17-Mar-03 18:47
Re: Self Affirmation 90 Don Barone 17-Mar-03 18:52
Re: Self Affirmation 94 Pete Vanderzwet 17-Mar-03 18:55
Re: Self Affirmation 92 Don Barone 17-Mar-03 19:39
Re: Self Affirmation 91 Pete Vanderzwet 17-Mar-03 19:53
Re: Anyone find this explanation a bit lacking in the logical department???? 92 PriorityRed 17-Mar-03 06:02
"Saving Face and Saving A$$.....or 55 Artificer 16-Mar-03 20:53
Why the U.S. Inspires Scorn 116 ananda 16-Mar-03 23:49
Re: Why the U.S. Inspires Scorn 90 Artificer 17-Mar-03 11:21
MORE GLOBAL ANTI WAR PROTESTS 80 Geoff 16-Mar-03 21:08
iraq's nuclear (and other) weapons 76 Akula 16-Mar-03 21:57
Re: Sounds To Me Like... 99 PriorityRed 17-Mar-03 00:06
Yes ... isn't that just brushing the issue under the carpet? 95 Akula 17-Mar-03 00:40
CIA Prediction 103 Anthony Taylor 17-Mar-03 09:20
Remember Halabja 101 Akula 16-Mar-03 22:02
well if its war you want...seems like you've got it...... 99 Geoff 16-Mar-03 23:17
Re: Actually... 70 PriorityRed 16-Mar-03 23:24
Re: Actually... 53 Geoff 17-Mar-03 02:41
www.ukresilience.info 152 Richard Fusniak -Fuzzy 16-Mar-03 23:19
www.ukresilience.info 91 Akula 17-Mar-03 00:13
Re: www.ukresilience.info 93 lovejoy 17-Mar-03 10:58
Blix report 64 Akula 17-Mar-03 23:10
No second resolution. The attack of Iraq is now at hand 96 lovejoy 17-Mar-03 16:03
16:20 Hours Robin Cook Has Resigned ! 96 Thirdwave 17-Mar-03 16:21
INDEED. Also.. 69 ananda 17-Mar-03 16:25
Re: INDEED. Also.. 74 joe_at_farquest 17-Mar-03 20:46
Re: Adios Robin ....................... :) 77 William T 17-Mar-03 18:33
Will represents a very important Characteristic 100 drak1 17-Mar-03 20:01
Re: Will represents a very important Characteristic 58 Pete Vanderzwet 17-Mar-03 20:04
Re: Quite Right Pete 94 William T 17-Mar-03 22:39
Schwartzkopf on war with Iraq 91 joe_at_farquest 17-Mar-03 20:56
Re: Saw Ol Stormin Norman Last Night On TV 107 William T 17-Mar-03 22:16
Re: Thank's :) Here's Some Better Examples 92 William T 17-Mar-03 22:11
Re: Will represents a very important Characteristic 75 PriorityRed 18-Mar-03 03:21
The French slant on things .... 79 Akula 18-Mar-03 22:17
Poor, poor crybaby America... 64 JPeeters 17-Mar-03 17:24
Re: Poor, poor crybaby JP... 76 Pete Vanderzwet 17-Mar-03 18:07
Re: Poor, poor crybaby JP... 87 Don Barone 17-Mar-03 18:44
Re: Poor, poor crybaby JP... 102 Pete Vanderzwet 17-Mar-03 19:29
Re: Poor, poor crybaby JP... 63 Mossad559 17-Mar-03 19:19
Re: Poor, poor crybaby JP... 106 Pete Vanderzwet 17-Mar-03 19:30
Not supported by International Law 92 Mossad559 17-Mar-03 19:38
Re: Not supported by International Law 62 Pete Vanderzwet 17-Mar-03 19:54
Re: Not supported by International Law 80 Mossad559 17-Mar-03 20:19
Re: Poor, poor crybaby JP... 95 lone 17-Mar-03 23:33
Re: Poor, poor crybaby JP... 86 Pete Vanderzwet 17-Mar-03 23:39
Re: Poor, poor crybaby JP... 93 lone 18-Mar-03 00:57
Re: Poor, poor crybaby peaceniks... 95 William T 17-Mar-03 18:11
Re: Poor, poor crybaby peaceniks... 92 joe_at_farquest 17-Mar-03 21:00
Re: Poor, poor crybaby peaceniks... 91 William T 17-Mar-03 22:07
Re: Poor, poor crybaby peaceniks... 98 joe_at_farquest 18-Mar-03 01:51
ROFL 78 Pete Vanderzwet 18-Mar-03 01:58
Re: ROFL 73 joe_at_farquest 18-Mar-03 04:59
Re: ROFL 79 PriorityRed 18-Mar-03 05:36
Re: ROFL 87 Pete Vanderzwet 18-Mar-03 05:40
Re: ROFL 96 PriorityRed 18-Mar-03 14:41
Re: ROFL 94 Pete Vanderzwet 18-Mar-03 14:51
Re: ROFL 86 Nobody 18-Mar-03 08:05
Veteran Opinions 64 Anthony Taylor 18-Mar-03 11:58
Hear! Hear!..........N/T 59 Artificer 18-Mar-03 20:11
Re: Veteran Opinions 87 Nobody 18-Mar-03 21:50
Nice Post, Pat 89 Artificer 18-Mar-03 22:02
Thanks Artificer! 98 Nobody 18-Mar-03 22:54
Re:For The Majority of Veteran Opinions 97 William T 18-Mar-03 22:20
Thank ya' much Will! 80 Nobody 18-Mar-03 23:00
The Great Satan 85 Jergat 17-Mar-03 21:21
Re: The Great Satan 82 Pete Vanderzwet 17-Mar-03 21:34
Re: The Great Satan 85 Jergat 17-Mar-03 21:51
Re: The Great Satan ....... LOL 58 William T 17-Mar-03 22:20
Re: The Great Satan 82 drak1 17-Mar-03 23:07
Re: The Great Satan 81 Pete Vanderzwet 17-Mar-03 23:11
Re: The Great Satan 84 drak1 17-Mar-03 23:33
Re: The Great Satan 91 Pete Vanderzwet 17-Mar-03 23:40
Re: The Great Satan 88 Jergat 18-Mar-03 02:25
Re: The Great Satan 93 Don Barone 18-Mar-03 02:33
Re: The Great Satan 110 lone 18-Mar-03 00:59
Poll 88 fred123 18-Mar-03 01:57
Moderator can't you swat this fly ? 94 Don Barone 18-Mar-03 02:16
Re: Moderator can't you swat this fly ? 87 fred123 18-Mar-03 02:18
Re: Moderator can't you swat this fly ? 78 Don Barone 18-Mar-03 02:20
Moderator note 78 Richard Fusniak -Fuzzy 18-Mar-03 02:25
chemical weapons deployed by Iraq 94 Akula 17-Mar-03 21:49
The Left - Fascist Coalition 97 fred123 18-Mar-03 02:15
Re: The Left - Fascist Coalition 93 Geoff 18-Mar-03 02:31
Re: The Left - Fascist Coalition 79 PriorityRed 18-Mar-03 05:42
Re: A Must Read For Everybody...... :) 100 William T 18-Mar-03 22:40
Re: War and Terrorism II 63 Paul Mallon 18-Mar-03 15:59


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