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eli stills Wrote:

> Hello Lothur
>
> Having participated in this debate I feel the need
> to defend myself from your accusation that the
> whole of the conversation was/is absurd. While it
> is certain that I believe those who differ with my
> opinions are absurd the debate over gun rights
> verses social responsibilities and safety is
> important to have.

Important perhaps but not feasible as long as people insist on arguing one point from two moral foundations.
Again, life is either valuable or not.

>
> My argument remains that the dismissal of the
> value in debating the matter and consideration of
> possible solutions should not be based solely on
> the protection of rights afforded by the founders
> 200 years ago but by reasonable arguments as
> applied to the needs and concerns of today’s
> society and its access to modern weapons.

Do you not have a right to your life? Do you accept all the responsibility that comes with it? Not the least of which is protecting and preserving that life? Or is that someone else's privilege to decide for you? That is if you think life has value at all. Or do you think societal concerns are paramount to the individual life?
I'm not exactly clear on your position

Words written 200 years ago are no less meaningful than words written 10 minutes ago or spoken 2000 years ago.

> In response it has been argued that the founders
> desired the civilian population to have a parity
> of arms with those of the infantryman. This
> argument ignores the obvious fact that such parity
> has long ago been sacrificed in favor of
> legislative protections for our neighbors and
> children from the civilian population.

Since when? If this were true this discussion would not be happening. False argument.

> It is my
> opinion that debate could result in a compromise
> that would allow the civilian population to be
> protected from both its government and each other
> when it comes to the ability to indiscriminately
> kill in mass.

While that may be true. History and modern life prove that opinion wrong. Whether killing happens in mass or one at a time is irrelevant to the issue. People kill whether by insanity or government dictate. That is the reality we must over come. Debating the tools used solves nothing.
>
> Additionally while I enjoy and understand the
> poetics of your argument I have reservations about
> the exclusion of those who do not support the
> policy of only considering scientific arguments
> regarding when life begins or wars of political
> and/or economical nature. Particularly because I
> am one such person. Regarding your abortion
> arguments in fairness it should be understood that
> those who do not consider a fetus to be a human
> life do not equate abortion with murder

What one considers valuable life is at the heart of the issue of violence now isn't it? Which is more moral? Why is one form of life more valued than another? And how can anyone justify an argument for preserving one and dismissing the other? The dichotomy of beliefs and logical hypocrisies are astounding to me.
>
> Respectfully, your conclusion that debate is
> absurd is IMO a dangerous suggestion for a society
> beset by escalating extremes of gun violence.

I only suggest the argument be founded in sound logic with principled and consistent beliefs on both sides. What we have now in this country is the equivalent of the childish game of 'he said' 'she said' and it will result in no peaceful solutions.

FYI Gun violence is and has been on the decline in this country for decades. Gun ownership has been rising. So the correlation does not work for your argument. However,I suggest to you that perhaps the causes of mass shooting incidents are coming from a different source all together and not from gun ownership or a failure of gun law.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Gun massacre blues 1717 Loki74 02-Oct-15 16:51
Re: Gun massacre blues 538 Aine 02-Oct-15 18:24
Re: Gun massacre blues 386 Loki74 02-Oct-15 18:51
Re: Gun massacre blues 723 carolb 03-Oct-15 00:48
You're right but some still make it... 598 Buck 45 02-Oct-15 19:49
Re: Gun massacre blues 545 Sirfiroth 02-Oct-15 19:58
Re: Gun massacre blues 442 Aine 02-Oct-15 20:17
Re: Gun massacre blues 444 Sirfiroth 02-Oct-15 21:07
Signs, signs, everywhere a sign 487 eli stills 02-Oct-15 22:26
Re: Gun massacre blues 339 Aine 02-Oct-15 22:52
Re: Gun massacre blues 372 Sirfiroth 03-Oct-15 00:08
Re: Gun massacre blues 445 Aine 03-Oct-15 00:52
Re: Gun massacre blues 476 laughin 05-Oct-15 00:11
Re: Gun massacre blues 455 carolb 03-Oct-15 00:50
Re: Gun massacre blues 409 ldennyjr 02-Oct-15 20:35
Re: Gun massacre blues 396 eli stills 02-Oct-15 22:08
Re: Gun massacre blues 479 Aine 02-Oct-15 22:53
Because of "thoughts" like these... 415 Buck 45 03-Oct-15 03:31
Re: Because of "thoughts" like these... 538 eli stills 03-Oct-15 16:59
A starting line 431 Buck 45 04-Oct-15 04:05
Re: A starting line 478 eli stills 04-Oct-15 16:49
Would've preferred you answered the questions 363 Buck 45 04-Oct-15 18:21
Re: Would've preferred you answered the questions 451 eli stills 04-Oct-15 21:19
We're almost there... almost 436 Buck 45 05-Oct-15 01:46
Re: We're almost there... almost 431 laughin 05-Oct-15 01:57
Some sugar, some spice 264 Buck 45 05-Oct-15 21:57
Re: Would've preferred you answered the questions 381 Sirfiroth 05-Oct-15 05:50
immigration may be the problem 358 laughin 03-Oct-15 12:12
Re: immigration may be the problem 368 Loki74 03-Oct-15 12:26
Re: immigration may be the problem 370 Aine 03-Oct-15 12:40
Re: immigration may be the problem 404 Sirfiroth 03-Oct-15 13:16
Re: immigration may be the problem 507 Aine 03-Oct-15 14:04
Re: immigration may be the problem 481 Sirfiroth 03-Oct-15 14:27
Re: immigration may be the problem 647 Aine 03-Oct-15 14:35
Eight (possible) ways to curb gun massacres in the US 471 Loki74 03-Oct-15 12:34
Re: Eight (possible) ways to curb gun massacres in the US 532 carolb 03-Oct-15 13:50
Re: Eight (possible) ways to curb gun massacres in the US 352 Aine 03-Oct-15 14:20
Re: Eight (possible) ways to curb gun massacres in the US 426 Loki74 03-Oct-15 14:31
Re: Eight (possible) ways to curb gun massacres in the US 337 carolb 03-Oct-15 15:49
Re: Eight (possible) ways to curb gun massacres in the US 375 carolb 03-Oct-15 18:05
Re: Eight (possible) ways to curb gun massacres in the US 417 Sirfiroth 03-Oct-15 14:15
Re: Eight (possible) ways to curb gun massacres in the US 394 Aine 03-Oct-15 14:23
Re: Eight (possible) ways to curb gun massacres in the US 439 Sirfiroth 03-Oct-15 16:51
Re: Eight (possible) ways to curb gun massacres in the US 328 Aine 03-Oct-15 17:07
Re: Eight (possible) ways to curb gun massacres in the US 405 Sirfiroth 03-Oct-15 18:48
"Possible?" How about, not in the slightest 438 Buck 45 03-Oct-15 17:16
Re: "Possible?" How about, not in the slightest 308 Loki74 04-Oct-15 13:18
Re: "Possible?" How about, not in the slightest 449 carolb 04-Oct-15 15:55
You mean, the math problem? 324 Buck 45 05-Oct-15 22:30
The real Tombstone? 449 Buck 45 04-Oct-15 18:40
Re: Eight (possible) ways to curb gun massacres in the US 378 laughin 03-Oct-15 23:47
Re: Gun massacre blues 314 ldennyjr 03-Oct-15 20:29
Re: Gun massacre blues 395 muppedo 04-Oct-15 00:12
Re: Gun massacre blues 433 Aine 04-Oct-15 01:53
Re: Gun massacre blues 579 carolb 04-Oct-15 13:23
Re: Gun massacre blues 402 Aine 06-Oct-15 13:05
Re: Gun massacre blues 399 carolb 06-Oct-15 15:05
Re: Gun massacre blues 323 Aine 06-Oct-15 15:28
Re: Gun massacre blues 471 carolb 06-Oct-15 16:11
YES! Give slander instead of answers! 292 Buck 45 06-Oct-15 16:24
Re: YES! Give slander instead of answers! 455 Aine 06-Oct-15 16:37
Uh, did you even read what you wrote?!? 426 Buck 45 06-Oct-15 17:24
Re: Uh, did you even read what you wrote?!? 426 Aine 06-Oct-15 21:05
Re: Uh, did you even read what you wrote?!? 282 calisurfer30 08-Oct-15 02:22
Re: Uh, did you even read what you wrote?!? 456 eli stills 06-Oct-15 21:51
What does that word even mean?! I don't know but its provacative! 482 Buck 45 06-Oct-15 23:26
Re: What does that word even mean?! I don't know but its provacative! 327 eli stills 07-Oct-15 02:06
Didn't reach first, base... 467 Buck 45 07-Oct-15 04:42
Re: What does that word even mean?! I don't know but its provacative! 372 Sirfiroth 07-Oct-15 13:06
Re: What does that word even mean?! I don't know but its provacative! 323 calisurfer30 08-Oct-15 02:28
Re: What does that word even mean?! I don't know but its provacative! 311 Aine 08-Oct-15 12:40
It's not for them... 365 Buck 45 08-Oct-15 15:28
Re: It's not for them... 245 calisurfer30 09-Oct-15 00:15
Re: It's not for them... 361 Sirfiroth 09-Oct-15 02:24
Re: It's not for them... 383 Aine 09-Oct-15 18:31
Re: YES! Give slander instead of answers! 344 laughin 06-Oct-15 18:13
Re: YES! Give slander instead of answers! 370 carolb 06-Oct-15 20:04
Re: YES! Give slander instead of answers! 315 Aine 06-Oct-15 20:58
Re: YES! Give slander instead of answers! 400 carolb 06-Oct-15 21:01
Re: YES! Give slander instead of answers! 282 Aine 06-Oct-15 21:06
Re: YES! Give slander instead of answers! 360 carolb 06-Oct-15 21:12
Obama going to Roseburg. 331 Sirfiroth 07-Oct-15 14:31
Re: Obama going to Roseburg. 330 eli stills 07-Oct-15 14:49
Re: Obama going to Roseburg. 303 calisurfer30 08-Oct-15 02:45
Re: Gun massacre blues 354 Sirfiroth 06-Oct-15 16:35
Mindset 351 muppedo 09-Oct-15 23:23
This whole debate is absurd 274 Lothur 10-Oct-15 16:25
Re: This whole debate is absurd 342 eli stills 10-Oct-15 17:59
A Civics failure 343 Buck 45 10-Oct-15 19:10
Re: This whole debate is absurd 426 Lothur 10-Oct-15 19:36
Almost... 249 Buck 45 10-Oct-15 19:28
Re: Almost... 363 Lothur 10-Oct-15 19:58
Re: Almost... 344 Eddie Larry 10-Oct-15 23:21
Re: Almost... 374 Sirfiroth 11-Oct-15 00:48
Their purpose 350 Buck 45 11-Oct-15 03:26
Re: Almost... 255 Eddie Larry 11-Oct-15 14:14
Re: Almost... 304 carolb 11-Oct-15 15:11
Lies, lies, everywhere the lies... 280 Buck 45 11-Oct-15 19:42
Re: Gun massacre blues 306 Brian Patterson 10-Oct-15 19:03
Re: Gun massacre blues 372 eli stills 10-Oct-15 20:02
Re: Gun massacre blues 268 calisurfer30 14-Oct-15 01:51
Re: Gun massacre blues 327 eli stills 14-Oct-15 02:24
Re: Gun massacre blues 316 calisurfer30 15-Oct-15 00:48
Re: Gun massacre blues 265 eli stills 15-Oct-15 02:27
Re: Gun massacre blues 409 calisurfer30 16-Oct-15 01:31


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