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MDaines Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truth may seem, but cannot be:
> Beauty brag, but 'tis not she;
> Truth and beauty buried be.
>
> To this urn let those repair
> That are either true or fair
> For these dead birds sigh a prayer.
>
> (Final verses of The Phoenix and the Turtle,
> William Shakespeare)
>
> Whoever wrote this was lamenting the lost memory
> of the alchemical teachings of Hermes.
>
> Let the priest in surplice white,
> That defunctive music can,
> Be the death-divining swan,
> Lest the requiem lack his right.
>
> Quatrain no.4 refers to the constellation of
> Cygnus. Also see the Conference of the Birds,
> another much earlier reference to the birds of
> Hermeticism. I notice, after writing this, that
> the link between the two poems has been made
> before. I have already suggested elsewhere that
> the core text and message of the Conference of the
> Birds, also known as Bird Parliament, existed long
> before it was adapted by Persian poet Attar.
>
> The turtle is well attested as the foundation of
> the pillar that supports our world. Truth is of
> the essence. When it’s lost, all is lost.
>
> Madeleine

I know, on the surface at least, the "Turtle" is a turtle-dove not a shelled 'un. But double and triple intended interpretations are more the norm than the exception in these works.

This poems authorship, composition and meaning are widely debated. Can't say that I have an opinion myself

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Subject Views Written By Posted
The Bard 5826 seanoffshotgun 10-Nov-18 16:46
Re: The Bard 540 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 21:08
Re: The Bard 501 seanoffshotgun 10-Nov-18 23:12
Re: The Bard 493 Eddie Larry 11-Nov-18 04:46
Re: The Bard 528 Reagent 19-Nov-18 09:57
Re: The Bard 479 seanoffshotgun 20-Nov-18 23:11
Re: The Bard 424 seanoffshotgun 18-Jan-19 21:19
Re: The Bard 291 seanoffshotgun 23-Mar-19 00:35
Re: The Bard 291 seanoffshotgun 23-Mar-19 00:56
Re: The Bard 270 Eddie Larry 23-Mar-19 15:35
Re: The Bard 305 seanoffshotgun 23-Mar-19 21:14
Re: The Bard 240 rulebook54 29-Jun-19 17:05
Re: The Bard 204 seanoffshotgun 14-Jul-19 00:40
Re: The Bard 120 rulebook54 21-Oct-19 16:15
Re: The Bard 126 Glass Jigsaw 21-Oct-19 18:59
Re: The Bard 133 Eddie Larry 21-Oct-19 20:32
Re: The Bard 129 seanoffshotgun 21-Oct-19 20:45
Re: The Bard 116 Glass Jigsaw 22-Oct-19 00:50
Re: The Bard 124 Eddie Larry 22-Oct-19 01:53
Re: The Bard 117 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 00:29
Re: The Bard 114 seanoffshotgun 23-Oct-19 01:16
Re: The Bard 119 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 01:31
Re: The Bard 108 seanoffshotgun 24-Oct-19 23:38
Re: The Bard 115 seanoffshotgun 22-Oct-19 03:06
Re: The Bard 109 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 02:36
Re: The Bard 115 seanoffshotgun 23-Oct-19 02:45
Re: The Bard 114 Eddie Larry 21-Oct-19 21:12
Re: The Bard 109 Glass Jigsaw 22-Oct-19 00:31
Re: The Bard 114 seanoffshotgun 22-Oct-19 02:52
Re: The Bard 118 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 00:41
Re: The Bard 108 seanoffshotgun 23-Oct-19 01:39
Re: The Bard 110 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 02:28
Re: The Bard 111 seanoffshotgun 23-Oct-19 02:38
Re: The Bard 120 seanoffshotgun 22-Oct-19 03:20
Re: The Bard 228 seanoffshotgun 14-Jul-19 00:48
Re: The Bard 111 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 00:17
Re: The Bard 111 seanoffshotgun 23-Oct-19 00:37
Re: The Bard 159 CJD1965 29-Aug-19 23:21
Re: The Bard 163 seanoffshotgun 30-Aug-19 23:56
Re: The Bard 153 CJD1965 31-Aug-19 01:24
Re: The Bard 164 seanoffshotgun 31-Aug-19 01:52
Re: The Bard 182 seanoffshotgun 31-Aug-19 02:41
Re: The Bard 160 Glass Jigsaw 06-Sep-19 11:31
Re: The Bard 154 seanoffshotgun 07-Sep-19 03:10
Re: The Bard 149 seanoffshotgun 16-Sep-19 02:30
Re: The Bard 153 Broker 18-Sep-19 22:07
Re: The Bard 143 seanoffshotgun 18-Sep-19 23:29
Re: The Bard 146 Eddie Larry 20-Sep-19 14:48
Re: The Bard 132 seanoffshotgun 20-Sep-19 20:29
Re: The Bard 158 Eddie Larry 20-Sep-19 22:46
Re: The Bard 130 seanoffshotgun 21-Sep-19 01:04
Re: The Bard 140 Eddie Larry 21-Sep-19 04:12
Re: The Bard 134 Glass Jigsaw 21-Sep-19 21:10
Re: The Bard 130 Eddie Larry 22-Sep-19 03:56
Re: The Bard 126 Glass Jigsaw 22-Sep-19 14:44
Re: The Bard 126 Eddie Larry 22-Sep-19 15:20
Re: The Bard 139 Glass Jigsaw 22-Sep-19 17:24
Re: The Bard 125 seanoffshotgun 23-Sep-19 03:48
Re: The Bard 142 MDaines 23-Sep-19 10:40
Re: The Bard 129 Broker 24-Sep-19 00:10
Re: The Bard 135 MDaines 24-Sep-19 16:32
Re: The Bard 132 Glass Jigsaw 24-Sep-19 00:15
Re: The Bard 136 MDaines 24-Sep-19 09:06
Re: The Bard 120 Glass Jigsaw 25-Sep-19 12:59
Re: The Bard 121 Glass Jigsaw 25-Sep-19 13:03
Re: The Bard 121 seanoffshotgun 25-Sep-19 19:25
Re: The Bard 124 Broker 23-Sep-19 23:51
Re: The Bard 150 seanoffshotgun 24-Sep-19 01:09
Re: The Bard 132 seanoffshotgun 24-Sep-19 01:22
Re: The Bard 111 CJD1965 17-Oct-19 18:50
Re: The Bard 107 seanoffshotgun 17-Oct-19 20:09
Re: The Bard 100 seanoffshotgun 17-Oct-19 20:14
Tarot in Shakespeare 126 seanoffshotgun 25-Sep-19 19:49
Re: Tarot in Shakespeare 134 Glass Jigsaw 26-Sep-19 00:12
Re: Tarot in Shakespeare 132 seanoffshotgun 26-Sep-19 01:06
Re: Tarot in Shakespeare 124 Glass Jigsaw 27-Sep-19 00:48
The Two of Sumerian Source 131 MDaines 27-Sep-19 08:17
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 126 Glass Jigsaw 27-Sep-19 11:21
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 143 MDaines 27-Sep-19 12:54
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 129 seanoffshotgun 27-Sep-19 20:14
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 129 Glass Jigsaw 28-Sep-19 18:32
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 135 seanoffshotgun 28-Sep-19 23:03
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 123 Glass Jigsaw 29-Sep-19 19:58
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 134 seanoffshotgun 30-Sep-19 08:31
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 120 Glass Jigsaw 30-Sep-19 13:45
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 125 seanoffshotgun 01-Oct-19 22:52
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 123 Glass Jigsaw 02-Oct-19 14:37
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 123 seanoffshotgun 02-Oct-19 19:53
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 123 Glass Jigsaw 03-Oct-19 00:13
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 127 seanoffshotgun 03-Oct-19 05:48
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 132 Glass Jigsaw 04-Oct-19 14:59
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 125 seanoffshotgun 08-Oct-19 22:04
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 129 Glass Jigsaw 09-Oct-19 19:45
Rennes le Chateau and Bains mysteries, hoaxes, context 133 Edmond 15-Oct-19 11:53
Re: Rennes le Chateau and Bains mysteries, hoaxes, context 124 Glass Jigsaw 16-Oct-19 00:31
Re: Rennes le Chateau and Bains mysteries, hoaxes, context 136 Edmond 16-Oct-19 06:22
Re: Rennes le Chateau and Bains mysteries, hoaxes, context 115 seanoffshotgun 16-Oct-19 22:56
Re: Rennes le Chateau and Bains mysteries, hoaxes, context 132 Edmond 18-Oct-19 17:02
Re: Rennes le Chateau and Bains mysteries, hoaxes, context 112 seanoffshotgun 18-Oct-19 19:14
Re: Mystery links challenge anthropology 121 Edmond 22-Oct-19 07:03
Re: Mystery links challenge anthropology 121 seanoffshotgun 22-Oct-19 07:17
Re: Mystery links challenge anthropology 118 Edmond 23-Oct-19 18:10
Re: Mystery links challenge anthropology 118 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 19:17
Re: Mystery links challenge anthropology 109 seanoffshotgun 24-Oct-19 23:48
Re: Mystery links challenge anthropology 120 Edmond 25-Oct-19 16:24
Re: Mystery links challenge anthropology 126 Glass Jigsaw 25-Oct-19 18:53
The Four Ts of Shakespeare’s Epitaph are Hermetic 146 MDaines 08-Oct-19 07:56
Re: The Four Ts of Shakespeare’s Epitaph are Hermetic 135 seanoffshotgun 08-Oct-19 21:55
Re: Four Ts of Shakespeare’s Epitaph 142 MDaines 10-Oct-19 07:44
Re: Four Ts of Shakespeare’s Epitaph 121 Glass Jigsaw 10-Oct-19 16:52
Re: Four Ts of Shakespeare’s Epitaph 122 seanoffshotgun 11-Oct-19 19:08
Re: Four Ts of Shakespeare’s Epitaph 133 Glass Jigsaw 12-Oct-19 16:42
Re: Four Ts of Shakespeare’s Epitaph 129 seanoffshotgun 11-Oct-19 19:04
The Will of William 119 MDaines 23-Oct-19 09:07
Re: The Will of William 113 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 12:57
The Phoenix and the Turtle 142 MDaines 15-Oct-19 10:26
Re: The Phoenix and the Turtle 122 Glass Jigsaw 16-Oct-19 12:17
Re: The Phoenix and the Turtle 126 seanoffshotgun 16-Oct-19 23:09
New candidate 134 seanoffshotgun 21-Oct-19 21:11
Re: New candidate 122 seanoffshotgun 22-Oct-19 03:35
Re: New candidate 130 seanoffshotgun 22-Oct-19 03:45
Re: New candidate 123 Glass Jigsaw 22-Oct-19 14:50
Re: New candidate 109 seanoffshotgun 23-Oct-19 01:25
Re: New candidate 118 seanoffshotgun 23-Oct-19 01:28
Re: New candidate 117 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 13:31
Re: New candidate 107 seanoffshotgun 25-Oct-19 00:04
Re: New candidate 110 Glass Jigsaw 25-Oct-19 01:28
Re: New candidate 105 seanoffshotgun 25-Oct-19 01:35
Re: New candidate 113 Glass Jigsaw 25-Oct-19 01:47
Re: New candidate 109 seanoffshotgun 25-Oct-19 01:56
Re: New candidate 119 Glass Jigsaw 25-Oct-19 02:26
Re: The Bard 117 Eddie Larry 29-Oct-19 18:18
Re: The Bard 111 Glass Jigsaw 29-Oct-19 18:50
Re: The Bard 107 Eddie Larry 29-Oct-19 20:30
Re: The Bard 112 seanoffshotgun 29-Oct-19 21:19
Re: The Bard 114 Eddie Larry 29-Oct-19 22:39
Re: The Bard 109 seanoffshotgun 29-Oct-19 23:15
Re: The Bard 115 Glass Jigsaw 30-Oct-19 01:43
Re: The Bard 112 Eddie Larry 30-Oct-19 02:05
Re: The Bard 108 Glass Jigsaw 30-Oct-19 02:18
Re: The Bard 111 seanoffshotgun 30-Oct-19 02:53
Re: The Bard 112 Glass Jigsaw 30-Oct-19 13:47
Re: The Bard 110 seanoffshotgun 31-Oct-19 00:30
Re: The Bard 111 Eddie Larry 31-Oct-19 04:22
Re: The Bard 105 seanoffshotgun 31-Oct-19 18:48
Re: The Bard 107 Glass Jigsaw 01-Nov-19 00:26
The Heresy of Hermeticism 111 MDaines 31-Oct-19 08:32
Re: The Heresy of Hermeticism 108 seanoffshotgun 31-Oct-19 19:12
Re: The Heresy of Hermeticism 109 Glass Jigsaw 01-Nov-19 00:44
Re: The Heresy of Hermeticism 116 seanoffshotgun 01-Nov-19 01:11
Re: The Heresy of Hermeticism 112 Glass Jigsaw 01-Nov-19 14:10
Re: The Heresy of Hermeticism 103 seanoffshotgun 01-Nov-19 20:49
Re: The Heresy of Hermeticism 109 Glass Jigsaw 02-Nov-19 01:41
Re: The Bard 130 Glass Jigsaw 30-Oct-19 01:34
Re: The Bard 126 seanoffshotgun 30-Oct-19 07:10
Re: The Bard 115 seanoffshotgun 01-Nov-19 00:16
The Spy theory 111 seanoffshotgun 05-Nov-19 00:57
Re: The Spy theory 104 Glass Jigsaw 06-Nov-19 19:05
Re: The Spy theory 111 seanoffshotgun 07-Nov-19 05:55
Re: The Spy theory 98 Glass Jigsaw 07-Nov-19 23:32
Re: The Spy theory 96 seanoffshotgun 08-Nov-19 00:28
Re: The Spy theory 96 seanoffshotgun 08-Nov-19 00:40
Re: The Spy theory 103 Glass Jigsaw 08-Nov-19 01:25
Re: The Spy theory 103 seanoffshotgun 08-Nov-19 06:03
Re: The Spy theory 103 Glass Jigsaw 08-Nov-19 21:16
Re: The Spy theory 109 seanoffshotgun 08-Nov-19 21:36
The Bad Quarto of Hamlet 110 MDaines 09-Nov-19 09:17
Re: The Bad Quarto of Hamlet 100 seanoffshotgun 09-Nov-19 22:56
THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 107 MDaines 11-Nov-19 10:29
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 104 Glass Jigsaw 11-Nov-19 14:55
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 97 seanoffshotgun 11-Nov-19 16:22
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 101 Glass Jigsaw 11-Nov-19 18:12
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 100 seanoffshotgun 12-Nov-19 13:59
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 97 Glass Jigsaw 12-Nov-19 14:14
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 100 seanoffshotgun 12-Nov-19 14:49
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 101 Glass Jigsaw 12-Nov-19 17:17
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 102 seanoffshotgun 13-Nov-19 06:52
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 100 Glass Jigsaw 13-Nov-19 13:15
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 101 seanoffshotgun 14-Nov-19 08:13
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 102 Glass Jigsaw 14-Nov-19 13:34
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 93 seanoffshotgun 15-Nov-19 07:28
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 100 Glass Jigsaw 15-Nov-19 16:45
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 98 seanoffshotgun 15-Nov-19 17:00
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 109 Glass Jigsaw 15-Nov-19 17:21
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 94 Glass Jigsaw 18-Nov-19 02:03
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 82 seanoffshotgun 19-Nov-19 07:00
Re: The Spy theory 106 Glass Jigsaw 11-Nov-19 00:42
Re: The Spy theory 98 seanoffshotgun 08-Nov-19 21:41
Re: The Spy theory 95 Glass Jigsaw 08-Nov-19 21:55
Re: The Spy theory 100 Glass Jigsaw 08-Nov-19 22:12
Re: The Spy theory 100 seanoffshotgun 09-Nov-19 01:49
Re: The Spy theory 109 seanoffshotgun 09-Nov-19 02:02
Re: The Spy theory 127 Glass Jigsaw 09-Nov-19 03:17
Re: The Spy theory 123 seanoffshotgun 09-Nov-19 23:05
John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 80 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Nov-19 23:09
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 75 seanoffshotgun 24-Nov-19 03:24
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 84 seanoffshotgun 24-Nov-19 03:28
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 76 Dr. Troglodyte 24-Nov-19 17:01
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 77 seanoffshotgun 24-Nov-19 17:25
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 93 Glass Jigsaw 25-Nov-19 01:57
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 86 seanoffshotgun 26-Nov-19 09:24
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 69 Glass Jigsaw 02-Dec-19 13:42
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 70 seanoffshotgun 02-Dec-19 21:37
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 66 Glass Jigsaw 03-Dec-19 01:10
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 70 seanoffshotgun 03-Dec-19 01:26
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 80 Glass Jigsaw 03-Dec-19 11:56
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 53 Glass Jigsaw 17-Dec-19 02:18
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 53 seanoffshotgun 17-Dec-19 02:58
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 54 Glass Jigsaw 17-Dec-19 03:22
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 55 seanoffshotgun 17-Dec-19 08:10
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 52 Glass Jigsaw 17-Dec-19 14:13
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 64 seanoffshotgun 18-Dec-19 06:56
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 55 Glass Jigsaw 21-Dec-19 14:30
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 59 Glass Jigsaw 21-Dec-19 20:58
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 43 seanoffshotgun 26-Dec-19 00:51
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 49 Glass Jigsaw 26-Dec-19 02:05
New video 44 seanoffshotgun 03-Jan-20 06:34
Re: New video 39 Glass Jigsaw 03-Jan-20 23:06
Re: New video 49 seanoffshotgun 04-Jan-20 02:21
Re: New video 46 Glass Jigsaw 06-Jan-20 02:08
Re: The Bard 42 seanoffshotgun 21-Jan-20 08:39
Re: The Bard 30 Glass Jigsaw 28-Jan-20 03:02
Re: The Bard 27 seanoffshotgun 28-Jan-20 14:40
Re: The Bard 29 Glass Jigsaw 28-Jan-20 21:04
Re: The Bard 34 seanoffshotgun 29-Jan-20 16:03
Re: The Bard 29 Glass Jigsaw 01-Feb-20 14:31
Re: The Bard 28 seanoffshotgun 03-Feb-20 08:15
Re: The Bard 20 Glass Jigsaw 04-Feb-20 14:07
Re: The Bard 18 seanoffshotgun 05-Feb-20 10:08
Re: The Bard 27 Glass Jigsaw 05-Feb-20 15:46
Re: The Bard 21 seanoffshotgun 07-Feb-20 10:41
Re: The Bard 29 Glass Jigsaw 07-Feb-20 14:48
Re: The Bard 22 seanoffshotgun 11-Feb-20 19:54
Re: The Bard 24 Glass Jigsaw 12-Feb-20 01:41
Re: The Bard 28 seanoffshotgun 12-Feb-20 05:55
Re: The Bard 28 Glass Jigsaw 13-Feb-20 15:52
Re: The Bard 26 seanoffshotgun 13-Feb-20 22:45
Re: The Bard 22 Glass Jigsaw 14-Feb-20 13:34
Re: The Bard 34 seanoffshotgun 14-Feb-20 19:10


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