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For the discussion of general and orthodox history from the advent of writing up to mid 20th Century, i.e. 3,200BC up to World War II. 
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Glass Jigsaw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi,I've been thinking about this since I read it
> this morning.Before I forget, Britannia / Athena
> Pallas makes a point of her headgear always being
> referred to as the Corinthian Helmet. and
> Corinthians in the bible is important to
> Freemasons. The dream Bottom has in Midsummer
> Nights Dream is based on Paul's letter to the
> Corinthians.

I'll have to read up on Corinthians. Any ideas as to why the Author/s would be using that motif?


> Anyway, as I said before I was told at school that
> Shakespeare was probably some kind of
> actor/manager. We had Oxbridge teachers back then
> so they knew their subjects. That is how I have
> thought of him.I remember looking at the copies of
> playbills where he appeared as an actor.

This may not actually be the case. The documentary evidence does show him to be a shareholder of the Globe theatre (10% i believe), and that does suggest that he was an actor as most of the other shareholders were. But given what else we know about this guy and the shady dealings around the plays, it's wise to take even this with a large grain of salt.

To the best of my knowledge, Shakespeare is only listed as an actor in two publications (I could be wrong and I will look into it and post what I find) Shakespeares First Folio of 1623, and Ben Jonsons Folio of 1616. Of course anything and everything in the First Folio is suspect. And Jonson is up to his neck in this business.

The Jonson Folio is really interesting. Shakespeare is named as an actor in Every man out of his Humor ,performed in 1598, and Sejanus a few years later. So for starters these listings are printed 18 to 15 years after the performances. And even longer in the case of the WS First Folio. There is also a fascinating parody of the stratford man in Every man out of his Humor. Around this time (1598), Shakesper was acquiring a coat of arms, famously with the phrase "non sans droict"
Translated as - Not without right
Which shows that these guys, at the very least, had a sense of humor. Many Shakespeare websites completely avoid mentioning this translation.
So, in Every Man, Jonson, has a character named Sogliardo.

Quote

The character Sogliardo, who Jonson includes in his general mockery of socially ambitious fools, is a country bumpkin, new to the city, who boasts of the coat of arms he has recently purchased, which, when he describes its colors, resembles a fool’s motley. Another character suggests Sogliardo should use the motto, "Not Without Mustard". This has been construed by some critics as a reference to William Shakespeare’s recently acquired coat of arms with its gold color, and its supposed motto, Non Sans Droit, which translates as "Not Without Right".

With friends like Jonson who needs enemies?

>Browsing
> while looking for clues to the meaning of the
> Tempest and I notice that his contemporaries say
> nothing about his plays being written by him. Even
> Samuel Pepys says so little.I would say that the
> Jonson poem says it all perfectly ! Ape in the
> sense of copy and Ape in the sense of plaything.
> Apes were trained to act as servants at the Royal
> Court.When you think about it plenty of the top
> paintings were started and finished by the master,
> with his pupils filling in the base. One man often
> takes the credit for all the scientific research
> done by his co-workers.

There's also the question of the Apocrypha
Could it be that these plays are the plays that Jonson is eluding to? With De Vere dying in 1604 there would have been less opportunities coming to the stratford man. Perhaps he did just as Jonson claims. He bought plays by other authors and stuck his own name on them. That would go some way to explaining Jonson's later actions.

>Maybe Jonson could not come
> right out and say it as Shakespeare had too
> powerful people around him, and other playwrights
> died in dubious circumstances.

This seems very likely. But it opens the door to other questions. Was this whole project sanctioned (and enforced) by the Monarchy? Or was it an artistic counter-culture furiously pushing England into the Renaissance?

In my view, it's almost certainly, the former.

>I also think
> Shakespeare was a chancer actor who grabbed the
> chance to be used.After all he was an ACTOR Re his
> name, on my wanderings through the years I found
> his grandfather was a Marano Jew living in London,
> called Jaco Spiro.His daughter Mariam was
> Shakespeare's mother. Ibelieve he was called
> Guilleme. Then, recently, I found an online
> article 'Was Shakespeare Jewish ?' on Ynet news
> saying the same, and his father was Jochanan and
> mother Miriam/ Maria. It says the locals changed
> Jacospiro to Shakespeare. I found another odd
> thing as well. Although Shakespeare is supposed to
> have married the pregnant Anne Hathaway, no
> records, a woman came forward to say that she had
> married him the week before in a local church and
> showed proof !? apparently it IS in a church
> register.I haven't followed this up.I also found
> an extremely funny drawing of his original
> monument showing a fat man and the legend this is
> what he did when he was 'done writing his plays'
> and said he was , from memory, a grain merchant.
> He died 2 years later.
> So using the Jonson line 'from brokage becomes so
> bold a thief' I take Brokage to mean ( Brokerage)
> Moneylender, which ties in with his Grandfather
> AND Mother, both said to be Moneylenders, as not
> enough for him he is now stealing other peoples
> plays.I guess Bacon and the others just overwrote
> the plots and filled in what they wanted, hence
> the reference to 'shreds from the whole piece'.

Yes, his father was certainly a money lender. And there is quite a lot of documentary evidence that William was also involved in it. The actual archival evidence shows that he was involved in many shady dealing.

Oh poor poet ape.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
The Bard 5642 seanoffshotgun 10-Nov-18 16:46
Re: The Bard 497 Eddie Larry 10-Nov-18 21:08
Re: The Bard 458 seanoffshotgun 10-Nov-18 23:12
Re: The Bard 453 Eddie Larry 11-Nov-18 04:46
Re: The Bard 492 Reagent 19-Nov-18 09:57
Re: The Bard 443 seanoffshotgun 20-Nov-18 23:11
Re: The Bard 390 seanoffshotgun 18-Jan-19 21:19
Re: The Bard 262 seanoffshotgun 23-Mar-19 00:35
Re: The Bard 262 seanoffshotgun 23-Mar-19 00:56
Re: The Bard 245 Eddie Larry 23-Mar-19 15:35
Re: The Bard 276 seanoffshotgun 23-Mar-19 21:14
Re: The Bard 211 rulebook54 29-Jun-19 17:05
Re: The Bard 176 seanoffshotgun 14-Jul-19 00:40
Re: The Bard 90 rulebook54 21-Oct-19 16:15
Re: The Bard 93 Glass Jigsaw 21-Oct-19 18:59
Re: The Bard 103 Eddie Larry 21-Oct-19 20:32
Re: The Bard 100 seanoffshotgun 21-Oct-19 20:45
Re: The Bard 91 Glass Jigsaw 22-Oct-19 00:50
Re: The Bard 97 Eddie Larry 22-Oct-19 01:53
Re: The Bard 89 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 00:29
Re: The Bard 86 seanoffshotgun 23-Oct-19 01:16
Re: The Bard 89 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 01:31
Re: The Bard 82 seanoffshotgun 24-Oct-19 23:38
Re: The Bard 86 seanoffshotgun 22-Oct-19 03:06
Re: The Bard 84 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 02:36
Re: The Bard 88 seanoffshotgun 23-Oct-19 02:45
Re: The Bard 89 Eddie Larry 21-Oct-19 21:12
Re: The Bard 85 Glass Jigsaw 22-Oct-19 00:31
Re: The Bard 86 seanoffshotgun 22-Oct-19 02:52
Re: The Bard 89 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 00:41
Re: The Bard 83 seanoffshotgun 23-Oct-19 01:39
Re: The Bard 85 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 02:28
Re: The Bard 83 seanoffshotgun 23-Oct-19 02:38
Re: The Bard 93 seanoffshotgun 22-Oct-19 03:20
Re: The Bard 205 seanoffshotgun 14-Jul-19 00:48
Re: The Bard 84 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 00:17
Re: The Bard 82 seanoffshotgun 23-Oct-19 00:37
Re: The Bard 131 CJD1965 29-Aug-19 23:21
Re: The Bard 138 seanoffshotgun 30-Aug-19 23:56
Re: The Bard 128 CJD1965 31-Aug-19 01:24
Re: The Bard 135 seanoffshotgun 31-Aug-19 01:52
Re: The Bard 151 seanoffshotgun 31-Aug-19 02:41
Re: The Bard 135 Glass Jigsaw 06-Sep-19 11:31
Re: The Bard 127 seanoffshotgun 07-Sep-19 03:10
Re: The Bard 125 seanoffshotgun 16-Sep-19 02:30
Re: The Bard 125 Broker 18-Sep-19 22:07
Re: The Bard 118 seanoffshotgun 18-Sep-19 23:29
Re: The Bard 119 Eddie Larry 20-Sep-19 14:48
Re: The Bard 106 seanoffshotgun 20-Sep-19 20:29
Re: The Bard 127 Eddie Larry 20-Sep-19 22:46
Re: The Bard 106 seanoffshotgun 21-Sep-19 01:04
Re: The Bard 113 Eddie Larry 21-Sep-19 04:12
Re: The Bard 108 Glass Jigsaw 21-Sep-19 21:10
Re: The Bard 106 Eddie Larry 22-Sep-19 03:56
Re: The Bard 100 Glass Jigsaw 22-Sep-19 14:44
Re: The Bard 104 Eddie Larry 22-Sep-19 15:20
Re: The Bard 109 Glass Jigsaw 22-Sep-19 17:24
Re: The Bard 101 seanoffshotgun 23-Sep-19 03:48
Re: The Bard 119 MDaines 23-Sep-19 10:40
Re: The Bard 102 Broker 24-Sep-19 00:10
Re: The Bard 110 MDaines 24-Sep-19 16:32
Re: The Bard 105 Glass Jigsaw 24-Sep-19 00:15
Re: The Bard 107 MDaines 24-Sep-19 09:06
Re: The Bard 93 Glass Jigsaw 25-Sep-19 12:59
Re: The Bard 97 Glass Jigsaw 25-Sep-19 13:03
Re: The Bard 96 seanoffshotgun 25-Sep-19 19:25
Re: The Bard 102 Broker 23-Sep-19 23:51
Re: The Bard 123 seanoffshotgun 24-Sep-19 01:09
Re: The Bard 105 seanoffshotgun 24-Sep-19 01:22
Re: The Bard 88 CJD1965 17-Oct-19 18:50
Re: The Bard 81 seanoffshotgun 17-Oct-19 20:09
Re: The Bard 74 seanoffshotgun 17-Oct-19 20:14
Tarot in Shakespeare 100 seanoffshotgun 25-Sep-19 19:49
Re: Tarot in Shakespeare 104 Glass Jigsaw 26-Sep-19 00:12
Re: Tarot in Shakespeare 108 seanoffshotgun 26-Sep-19 01:06
Re: Tarot in Shakespeare 99 Glass Jigsaw 27-Sep-19 00:48
The Two of Sumerian Source 105 MDaines 27-Sep-19 08:17
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 101 Glass Jigsaw 27-Sep-19 11:21
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 116 MDaines 27-Sep-19 12:54
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 103 seanoffshotgun 27-Sep-19 20:14
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 101 Glass Jigsaw 28-Sep-19 18:32
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 111 seanoffshotgun 28-Sep-19 23:03
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 99 Glass Jigsaw 29-Sep-19 19:58
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 107 seanoffshotgun 30-Sep-19 08:31
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 95 Glass Jigsaw 30-Sep-19 13:45
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 98 seanoffshotgun 01-Oct-19 22:52
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 98 Glass Jigsaw 02-Oct-19 14:37
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 95 seanoffshotgun 02-Oct-19 19:53
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 98 Glass Jigsaw 03-Oct-19 00:13
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 101 seanoffshotgun 03-Oct-19 05:48
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 106 Glass Jigsaw 04-Oct-19 14:59
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 100 seanoffshotgun 08-Oct-19 22:04
Re: The Two of Sumerian Source 102 Glass Jigsaw 09-Oct-19 19:45
Rennes le Chateau and Bains mysteries, hoaxes, context 102 Edmond 15-Oct-19 11:53
Re: Rennes le Chateau and Bains mysteries, hoaxes, context 99 Glass Jigsaw 16-Oct-19 00:31
Re: Rennes le Chateau and Bains mysteries, hoaxes, context 107 Edmond 16-Oct-19 06:22
Re: Rennes le Chateau and Bains mysteries, hoaxes, context 85 seanoffshotgun 16-Oct-19 22:56
Re: Rennes le Chateau and Bains mysteries, hoaxes, context 104 Edmond 18-Oct-19 17:02
Re: Rennes le Chateau and Bains mysteries, hoaxes, context 85 seanoffshotgun 18-Oct-19 19:14
Re: Mystery links challenge anthropology 91 Edmond 22-Oct-19 07:03
Re: Mystery links challenge anthropology 95 seanoffshotgun 22-Oct-19 07:17
Re: Mystery links challenge anthropology 91 Edmond 23-Oct-19 18:10
Re: Mystery links challenge anthropology 88 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 19:17
Re: Mystery links challenge anthropology 84 seanoffshotgun 24-Oct-19 23:48
Re: Mystery links challenge anthropology 93 Edmond 25-Oct-19 16:24
Re: Mystery links challenge anthropology 98 Glass Jigsaw 25-Oct-19 18:53
The Four Ts of Shakespeare’s Epitaph are Hermetic 118 MDaines 08-Oct-19 07:56
Re: The Four Ts of Shakespeare’s Epitaph are Hermetic 105 seanoffshotgun 08-Oct-19 21:55
Re: Four Ts of Shakespeare’s Epitaph 114 MDaines 10-Oct-19 07:44
Re: Four Ts of Shakespeare’s Epitaph 94 Glass Jigsaw 10-Oct-19 16:52
Re: Four Ts of Shakespeare’s Epitaph 93 seanoffshotgun 11-Oct-19 19:08
Re: Four Ts of Shakespeare’s Epitaph 105 Glass Jigsaw 12-Oct-19 16:42
Re: Four Ts of Shakespeare’s Epitaph 103 seanoffshotgun 11-Oct-19 19:04
The Will of William 91 MDaines 23-Oct-19 09:07
Re: The Will of William 86 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 12:57
The Phoenix and the Turtle 113 MDaines 15-Oct-19 10:26
Re: The Phoenix and the Turtle 98 Glass Jigsaw 16-Oct-19 12:17
Re: The Phoenix and the Turtle 101 seanoffshotgun 16-Oct-19 23:09
New candidate 105 seanoffshotgun 21-Oct-19 21:11
Re: New candidate 96 seanoffshotgun 22-Oct-19 03:35
Re: New candidate 99 seanoffshotgun 22-Oct-19 03:45
Re: New candidate 95 Glass Jigsaw 22-Oct-19 14:50
Re: New candidate 83 seanoffshotgun 23-Oct-19 01:25
Re: New candidate 90 seanoffshotgun 23-Oct-19 01:28
Re: New candidate 89 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 13:31
Re: New candidate 81 seanoffshotgun 25-Oct-19 00:04
Re: New candidate 83 Glass Jigsaw 25-Oct-19 01:28
Re: New candidate 79 seanoffshotgun 25-Oct-19 01:35
Re: New candidate 84 Glass Jigsaw 25-Oct-19 01:47
Re: New candidate 84 seanoffshotgun 25-Oct-19 01:56
Re: New candidate 91 Glass Jigsaw 25-Oct-19 02:26
Re: The Bard 88 Eddie Larry 29-Oct-19 18:18
Re: The Bard 83 Glass Jigsaw 29-Oct-19 18:50
Re: The Bard 81 Eddie Larry 29-Oct-19 20:30
Re: The Bard 85 seanoffshotgun 29-Oct-19 21:19
Re: The Bard 87 Eddie Larry 29-Oct-19 22:39
Re: The Bard 81 seanoffshotgun 29-Oct-19 23:15
Re: The Bard 86 Glass Jigsaw 30-Oct-19 01:43
Re: The Bard 83 Eddie Larry 30-Oct-19 02:05
Re: The Bard 79 Glass Jigsaw 30-Oct-19 02:18
Re: The Bard 82 seanoffshotgun 30-Oct-19 02:53
Re: The Bard 87 Glass Jigsaw 30-Oct-19 13:47
Re: The Bard 83 seanoffshotgun 31-Oct-19 00:30
Re: The Bard 81 Eddie Larry 31-Oct-19 04:22
Re: The Bard 78 seanoffshotgun 31-Oct-19 18:48
Re: The Bard 81 Glass Jigsaw 01-Nov-19 00:26
The Heresy of Hermeticism 85 MDaines 31-Oct-19 08:32
Re: The Heresy of Hermeticism 80 seanoffshotgun 31-Oct-19 19:12
Re: The Heresy of Hermeticism 81 Glass Jigsaw 01-Nov-19 00:44
Re: The Heresy of Hermeticism 89 seanoffshotgun 01-Nov-19 01:11
Re: The Heresy of Hermeticism 86 Glass Jigsaw 01-Nov-19 14:10
Re: The Heresy of Hermeticism 79 seanoffshotgun 01-Nov-19 20:49
Re: The Heresy of Hermeticism 84 Glass Jigsaw 02-Nov-19 01:41
Re: The Bard 96 Glass Jigsaw 30-Oct-19 01:34
Re: The Bard 100 seanoffshotgun 30-Oct-19 07:10
Re: The Bard 87 seanoffshotgun 01-Nov-19 00:16
The Spy theory 82 seanoffshotgun 05-Nov-19 00:57
Re: The Spy theory 79 Glass Jigsaw 06-Nov-19 19:05
Re: The Spy theory 84 seanoffshotgun 07-Nov-19 05:55
Re: The Spy theory 70 Glass Jigsaw 07-Nov-19 23:32
Re: The Spy theory 69 seanoffshotgun 08-Nov-19 00:28
Re: The Spy theory 70 seanoffshotgun 08-Nov-19 00:40
Re: The Spy theory 75 Glass Jigsaw 08-Nov-19 01:25
Re: The Spy theory 77 seanoffshotgun 08-Nov-19 06:03
Re: The Spy theory 74 Glass Jigsaw 08-Nov-19 21:16
Re: The Spy theory 82 seanoffshotgun 08-Nov-19 21:36
The Bad Quarto of Hamlet 82 MDaines 09-Nov-19 09:17
Re: The Bad Quarto of Hamlet 74 seanoffshotgun 09-Nov-19 22:56
THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 78 MDaines 11-Nov-19 10:29
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 77 Glass Jigsaw 11-Nov-19 14:55
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 72 seanoffshotgun 11-Nov-19 16:22
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 75 Glass Jigsaw 11-Nov-19 18:12
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 72 seanoffshotgun 12-Nov-19 13:59
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 71 Glass Jigsaw 12-Nov-19 14:14
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 71 seanoffshotgun 12-Nov-19 14:49
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 75 Glass Jigsaw 12-Nov-19 17:17
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 76 seanoffshotgun 13-Nov-19 06:52
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 74 Glass Jigsaw 13-Nov-19 13:15
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 72 seanoffshotgun 14-Nov-19 08:13
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 77 Glass Jigsaw 14-Nov-19 13:34
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 67 seanoffshotgun 15-Nov-19 07:28
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 69 Glass Jigsaw 15-Nov-19 16:45
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 70 seanoffshotgun 15-Nov-19 17:00
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 83 Glass Jigsaw 15-Nov-19 17:21
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 70 Glass Jigsaw 18-Nov-19 02:03
Re: THE MADLY-USED MALVOLIO 58 seanoffshotgun 19-Nov-19 07:00
Re: The Spy theory 78 Glass Jigsaw 11-Nov-19 00:42
Re: The Spy theory 71 seanoffshotgun 08-Nov-19 21:41
Re: The Spy theory 68 Glass Jigsaw 08-Nov-19 21:55
Re: The Spy theory 70 Glass Jigsaw 08-Nov-19 22:12
Re: The Spy theory 71 seanoffshotgun 09-Nov-19 01:49
Re: The Spy theory 81 seanoffshotgun 09-Nov-19 02:02
Re: The Spy theory 97 Glass Jigsaw 09-Nov-19 03:17
Re: The Spy theory 95 seanoffshotgun 09-Nov-19 23:05
John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 53 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Nov-19 23:09
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 46 seanoffshotgun 24-Nov-19 03:24
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 54 seanoffshotgun 24-Nov-19 03:28
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 47 Dr. Troglodyte 24-Nov-19 17:01
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 51 seanoffshotgun 24-Nov-19 17:25
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 63 Glass Jigsaw 25-Nov-19 01:57
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 59 seanoffshotgun 26-Nov-19 09:24
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 39 Glass Jigsaw 02-Dec-19 13:42
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 41 seanoffshotgun 02-Dec-19 21:37
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 39 Glass Jigsaw 03-Dec-19 01:10
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 41 seanoffshotgun 03-Dec-19 01:26
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 54 Glass Jigsaw 03-Dec-19 11:56
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 31 Glass Jigsaw 17-Dec-19 02:18
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 30 seanoffshotgun 17-Dec-19 02:58
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 33 Glass Jigsaw 17-Dec-19 03:22
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 32 seanoffshotgun 17-Dec-19 08:10
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 29 Glass Jigsaw 17-Dec-19 14:13
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 40 seanoffshotgun 18-Dec-19 06:56
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 33 Glass Jigsaw 21-Dec-19 14:30
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 36 Glass Jigsaw 21-Dec-19 20:58
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 23 seanoffshotgun 26-Dec-19 00:51
Re: John Fletcher & Petr Plecháč’s Machine-Learning Algorithms 29 Glass Jigsaw 26-Dec-19 02:05
New video 21 seanoffshotgun 03-Jan-20 06:34
Re: New video 17 Glass Jigsaw 03-Jan-20 23:06
Re: New video 26 seanoffshotgun 04-Jan-20 02:21
Re: New video 25 Glass Jigsaw 06-Jan-20 02:08
Re: The Bard 11 seanoffshotgun 21-Jan-20 08:39


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