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Hello again Ray,

Quote
drrayeye
Since celestial imagery seems to always have been there, I subtract the Astrotheological elements, as scholars have done for many centuries. I don't think that the historical Jesus Christ documentation or consensus has changed much.

Would you mind giving me a some examples of what you consider to be legitimate factual/historical events in the life of Jesus? Some specific examples as they appear in the gospels or any other sources that you accept will be good.


I checked out what Mathisen is saying and found this:

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Virtually all of the world’s myths, scriptures, and sacred traditions can be conclusively shown to be based upon the motions of the stars. This includes all of the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments of the Bible, which for the past seventeen centuries have most commonly been interpreted and taught as though they were intended to describe literal and terrestrial events, when in fact the evidence that they are based upon celestial metaphor is overwhelming.

Do you have an example of Mathisen stating what he believes to be the facts in regards to a historical Jesus? So far all I am seeing about his work is how the Bible is all "based upon the motions of the stars," which doesn't leave much room for a literal historical record.

I also found Mathisen apparently responding to a criticism of his work, specifically criticizing his assumption that other figures such as Paul and even Josephus were historical figures when they may not have been, and this is what Mathisen says in response:

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Lettre à David Warner Mathisen
I agree with you that much which was anciently written as « history » may also be celestial allegory, not least the works of Josephus.

I do not think that it is the position of most traditional scholars that even Josephus is a celestial allegory. So again, what specific facts from the NT would you consider historical rather than mythical or astrotheological?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
The Historical Jesus 6785 Pete Vanderzwet 25-May-15 05:54
Re: The Historical Jesus 1103 deeside1 26-May-15 20:09
Re: The Historical Jesus 874 Pete Vanderzwet 02-Jun-15 23:02
Re: The Historical Jesus 857 deeside1 03-Jun-15 17:58
Re: The Historical Jesus 866 Pete Vanderzwet 25-Jun-15 16:46
Re: The Historical Jesus 785 drrayeye 17-Jun-15 19:55
Re: The Historical Jesus 794 deeside1 19-Jun-15 09:31
Re: The Historical Jesus 750 drrayeye 26-Jun-15 00:12
Re: The Historical Jesus 850 Yourconscience 05-Mar-16 16:45
Re: The Historical Jesus 696 bsbray 06-Mar-16 07:49
Re: The Historical Jesus 614 Yourconscience 06-Mar-16 15:44
Re: The Historical Jesus 614 bsbray 06-Mar-16 18:59
Re: The Historical Jesus 704 Eddie Larry 07-Mar-16 00:10
Re: The Historical Jesus 673 Vanya 07-Mar-16 17:52
Re: The Historical Jesus 560 Vanya 07-Mar-16 19:32
Re: The Historical Jesus 755 Yourconscience 08-Mar-16 15:48
Re: The Historical Jesus 546 Vanya 08-Mar-16 18:08
An alternative analysis 644 drrayeye 09-Mar-16 21:13
Re: An alternative analysis 637 Yourconscience 10-Mar-16 19:13
Re: The Historical Jesus 732 grangram 02-Jul-15 16:14
Re: The Historical Jesus 623 deeside1 03-Jul-15 10:37
Re: The Historical Jesus 843 grangram 05-Jul-15 06:43
Re: The Historical Jesus 851 gulsbo 15-Feb-16 19:15
Re: The Historical Jesus 593 grangram 02-Mar-16 12:25
Re: The Historical Jesus 595 BRN4327 25-Mar-17 11:01
Astrotheology? 772 bsbray 02-Mar-16 19:34
Re: Astrotheology? 600 drrayeye 06-Mar-16 15:38
Re: Astrotheology? 632 bsbray 06-Mar-16 19:06
Re: Astrotheology? 598 drrayeye 10-Mar-16 03:28
Re: Astrotheology? 588 bsbray 10-Mar-16 05:13
Re: Astrotheology? 572 drrayeye 10-Mar-16 06:49
Re: Astrotheology? 558 bsbray 10-Mar-16 21:17
Re: Astrotheology? 621 drrayeye 10-Mar-16 21:52
Re: Astrotheology? 672 bsbray 10-Mar-16 23:57
Re: Astrotheology? 661 drrayeye 11-Mar-16 01:50
Re: Astrotheology? 634 OCaptain 30-Mar-16 01:43
Re: Astrotheology? 624 OCaptain 30-Mar-16 01:38
Re: Astrotheology? 764 bsbray 15-Apr-16 00:33
Re: Astrotheology? 599 BRN4327 22-Apr-17 09:52
Settled science IMO 784 David L 11-May-16 13:09
Re: Mithras and Jesus 305 muppedo 28-Jul-17 23:42
Re: Mithras and Jesus 411 Eddie Larry 29-Jul-17 00:12
Re: Mithras and Jesus 403 muppedo 29-Jul-17 23:26
Re: Mithras and Jesus 379 eyeofhorus33 11-Aug-17 16:17
Re: Mithras and Jesus 699 muppedo 13-Aug-17 23:19


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