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Hello again Ray,

Since celestial imagery seems to always have been there, I subtract the Astrotheological elements, as scholars have done for many centuries. I don't think that the historical Jesus Christ documentation or consensus has changed much.

Would you mind giving me a some examples of what you consider to be legitimate factual/historical events in the life of Jesus? Some specific examples as they appear in the gospels or any other sources that you accept will be good.

I checked out what Mathisen is saying and found this:

Virtually all of the world’s myths, scriptures, and sacred traditions can be conclusively shown to be based upon the motions of the stars. This includes all of the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments of the Bible, which for the past seventeen centuries have most commonly been interpreted and taught as though they were intended to describe literal and terrestrial events, when in fact the evidence that they are based upon celestial metaphor is overwhelming.

Do you have an example of Mathisen stating what he believes to be the facts in regards to a historical Jesus? So far all I am seeing about his work is how the Bible is all "based upon the motions of the stars," which doesn't leave much room for a literal historical record.

I also found Mathisen apparently responding to a criticism of his work, specifically criticizing his assumption that other figures such as Paul and even Josephus were historical figures when they may not have been, and this is what Mathisen says in response:

Lettre à David Warner Mathisen
I agree with you that much which was anciently written as « history » may also be celestial allegory, not least the works of Josephus.

I do not think that it is the position of most traditional scholars that even Josephus is a celestial allegory. So again, what specific facts from the NT would you consider historical rather than mythical or astrotheological?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
The Historical Jesus 6888 Pete Vanderzwet 25-May-15 05:54
Re: The Historical Jesus 1148 deeside1 26-May-15 20:09
Re: The Historical Jesus 918 Pete Vanderzwet 02-Jun-15 23:02
Re: The Historical Jesus 903 deeside1 03-Jun-15 17:58
Re: The Historical Jesus 909 Pete Vanderzwet 25-Jun-15 16:46
Re: The Historical Jesus 830 drrayeye 17-Jun-15 19:55
Re: The Historical Jesus 837 deeside1 19-Jun-15 09:31
Re: The Historical Jesus 792 drrayeye 26-Jun-15 00:12
Re: The Historical Jesus 901 Yourconscience 05-Mar-16 16:45
Re: The Historical Jesus 736 bsbray 06-Mar-16 07:49
Re: The Historical Jesus 652 Yourconscience 06-Mar-16 15:44
Re: The Historical Jesus 656 bsbray 06-Mar-16 18:59
Re: The Historical Jesus 747 Eddie Larry 07-Mar-16 00:10
Re: The Historical Jesus 716 Vanya 07-Mar-16 17:52
Re: The Historical Jesus 604 Vanya 07-Mar-16 19:32
Re: The Historical Jesus 803 Yourconscience 08-Mar-16 15:48
Re: The Historical Jesus 586 Vanya 08-Mar-16 18:08
An alternative analysis 689 drrayeye 09-Mar-16 21:13
Re: An alternative analysis 684 Yourconscience 10-Mar-16 19:13
Re: The Historical Jesus 767 grangram 02-Jul-15 16:14
Re: The Historical Jesus 659 deeside1 03-Jul-15 10:37
Re: The Historical Jesus 883 grangram 05-Jul-15 06:43
Re: The Historical Jesus 886 gulsbo 15-Feb-16 19:15
Re: The Historical Jesus 634 grangram 02-Mar-16 12:25
Re: The Historical Jesus 639 BRN4327 25-Mar-17 11:01
Astrotheology? 805 bsbray 02-Mar-16 19:34
Re: Astrotheology? 635 drrayeye 06-Mar-16 15:38
Re: Astrotheology? 676 bsbray 06-Mar-16 19:06
Re: Astrotheology? 633 drrayeye 10-Mar-16 03:28
Re: Astrotheology? 625 bsbray 10-Mar-16 05:13
Re: Astrotheology? 608 drrayeye 10-Mar-16 06:49
Re: Astrotheology? 594 bsbray 10-Mar-16 21:17
Re: Astrotheology? 656 drrayeye 10-Mar-16 21:52
Re: Astrotheology? 710 bsbray 10-Mar-16 23:57
Re: Astrotheology? 695 drrayeye 11-Mar-16 01:50
Re: Astrotheology? 669 OCaptain 30-Mar-16 01:43
Re: Astrotheology? 656 OCaptain 30-Mar-16 01:38
Re: Astrotheology? 812 bsbray 15-Apr-16 00:33
Re: Astrotheology? 638 BRN4327 22-Apr-17 09:52
Settled science IMO 826 David L 11-May-16 13:09
Re: Mithras and Jesus 347 muppedo 28-Jul-17 23:42
Re: Mithras and Jesus 455 Eddie Larry 29-Jul-17 00:12
Re: Mithras and Jesus 442 muppedo 29-Jul-17 23:26
Re: Mithras and Jesus 422 eyeofhorus33 11-Aug-17 16:17
Re: Mithras and Jesus 757 muppedo 13-Aug-17 23:19

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