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Origyptian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taylor ('87) quoted Säve-Söderbergh's 1969
> symposium presentation which included Brew's
> statement, and this was properly cited by Audrey
> as apparently the first time (the '69
> presentation) that Säve-Söderbergh formally
> presented Brew's statement. Brew's statement
> apparently was repeated by Säve-Söderbergh the
> following year in a paper published in the 1970
> proceedings volume. If Holloway claims
> Säve-Söderbergh's 1970 paper is the first
> mention of Brew's statement, Holloway may be
> mistaken since Taylor claims that
> Säve-Söderbergh first presented the quote the
> previous year in a live presentation at a
> different symposium.
>
> While Brew made the statement before
> Säve-Söderbergh's '69 presentation, such
> practice seemed to have been active at least to
> 1995 (after Taylor's '87 citation), based on the
> details of methodology stated in Bonani, et al.
> where half the data samples were not included in
> the study but rather were put in a "reserve" for
> no stated reason, a descrepancy between the
> retrospective date of the '84 Cayce Foundation
> study and the then-contemporaneous '95 samples was
> not adequately addressed by the authors, the
> discrepancy between the RCD data and historical
> data was not properly explained by the authors, no
> rationale was given for the method used to
> determine "outliers", and no explanation was given
> to assure that modern carbon was removed from the
> surface samples. When the RCD data didn't quite
> fit the historical data, the authors gravitated
> toward blaming the method without offering any
> consideration of whether the historic timeline
> might require adjustment.
>
> It may have been an old practice, but it wasn't
> extinct by the time Taylor cited it.

The proceedings of this symposium are actually quite interesting. I think you in particular would enjoy reading it for it gives several C14 test results and there is discussion of them. I would very much like to hear your take on them, if you have the time and inclination to read it. It's not very long and is available on archive.org but you have to register (no cost involved) and virtually check out the booklet which is why I can't post a link to it. At archive.org search for "Radiocarbon variations and absolute chronology", Soderbergh's section begins on page 35.

Cut and paste isn't an option so I took the time to type a couple excepts thinking there might be others interested. For clarification I typed the beginning of the first page of the booklet that tells how the symposium was conducted. For those who didn't catch it, this was a NOBEL symposium, as in the NOBEL Peace Prize.

Quote
Radiocarbon variations and absolute chronology
The programme of the Twelfth Nobel symposium included, besides the normal lectures, six discussions and one excursion devoted to special problems treated during the symposium. One session was public and the audience was free to raise questions or contribute to the discussion after the three introductory lectures. All the lectures had been distributed in advance to the participants and hence the symposium sessions could, to a large extent, be devoted to discussions.
The lectures and the discussions were recorded. Since the discussions were often long and covered subjects not treated in the papers, they have been condensed and in a few cases they have been only summarized as editorial remarks.

Quote
Abstract
The chronology of the Pharaonic civilization has been regarded as particularly well established and has therefore been used as a chronological basis, both for other cultures connected with Pharaonic Egypt and for the C14 method of dating.

Quote
C14 dating and Egyptian chronology by T. Save-Soderbergh and I.U. Olsson

INTRODUCTION

C14 dating was being discussed at a symposium on the prehistory of the Nile Valley. A famous American colleague, Professor Brew, briefly summarized a common attitude among archaeologists towards it, as follows:
"If a C14 date supports our theories, we put it in the main text. If it does not entirely contradict them, we put it in a foot-note. And if it is completely 'out of date', we just drop it"
Few archaeologists who have concerned themselves with absolute chronology are innocent of having sometimes applied this method, and many are still hesitant to accept C14 dates without reservations.
For this and many other reasons, it is of great importance to study the C14 variations and to work out an accurate correction scale by all the available checking methods.

......My task is to speak about the possibilities of using Egyptian chronology as a check on the C14 dates, and I shall therefore restrict myself to Pharaonic times.

Quote

C14 dating has been applied to Egyptian material for two reasons--to check the exactitude of the method with the aid of the absolute dates of Egyptian history, and to attempt to solve some uncertain points in Egyptian chronology.

I take this to mean that Egyptology's already established "absolute dates" are used to verify the tests. And that an "accurate correction scale" is needed to bring C14 dates in line with Egyptology's dates. How can they do this?!! How can 'historic', which has absolutely no calendar dates, be used to confirm a science test?!! It's absurd. The ancient Greeks had a calendar, although still not completely understood, and the Romans had one, so they can determine that Nero lived at such and such time. But the AE had no calendar.

Quote

Since these documents are all incomplete, we have to reconstruct the list of kings with the aid of other monuments and data, both contemporary and of much later date, such as Manetho's Egyptian history, compiled in the third century B.C. on the basis of old sources but unfortunately known to us only through still later excerpts.

Manetho is the backbone of Egyptian chronology, it always was.

Quote

It would have been easy to obtain excellent and reliably dated samples from the funerary ship of King Cheops, whose death can be dated to c. 2556 (maximum) and c. 2530 B.C. (minimum). We know that his ship was deposited near the pyramid by his successor Djedefre. Among other finds there were large quantities of decayed ropes in the shaft, which would have been excellent for C14 dating, thus avoiding the problems of large logs, inner growth rings, etc.
Instead three pieces of three different species of wood were used for one date. This sample should be reliable, the historical date is certain within rather narrow margins, and the find was safely sealed. But the C14 dating differs widely from the general trend of the period in question.

Really? Could the Egyptologists be wrong?

He who knows all the answers has not been asked all the questions - Confucius

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Orthos Hypocrisy 1939 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 320 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:36
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 332 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 332 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 308 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 288 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 230 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 311 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 278 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 287 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 343 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 333 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 258 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:23
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 243 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 328 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 320 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:39
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 259 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 276 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 229 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 263 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 312 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 336 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 265 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 261 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 283 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:10
And therein lies the end to the conversation. 252 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:19
Pz runs home to maat 296 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 310 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 03:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 277 Vladislaw 19-Mar-02 23:35
One Overlooked Consideration... 307 ARTiFact 20-Mar-02 00:57
Re: One Overlooked Consideration... 356 Vladislaw 20-Mar-02 14:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 286 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 03:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 262 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:36
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 257 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 266 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 311 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 250 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 277 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 249 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:28
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 256 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:29
Give us paint testing 261 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:33
Re: Give us paint testing 294 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:35
Re: Give us paint testing 276 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:45
Re: Give us paint testing 250 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:47
Re: Give us paint testing 261 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:54
Re: Give us paint testing 308 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 23:10
Re: Give us paint testing 251 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 19:58
Re: Give us paint testing 315 Harry 22-Mar-02 00:36
Re: Give us paint testing 247 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 273 Frank D 21-Mar-02 10:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 372 Martin Stower 21-Mar-02 16:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 336 Frank D 22-Mar-02 01:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 264 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 305 Frank D 22-Mar-02 10:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 385 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 04:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 429 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 10:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 292 Warwick 19-Mar-17 17:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 412 Audrey 19-Mar-17 17:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 382 Warwick 19-Mar-17 17:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 311 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 409 Warwick 19-Mar-17 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 396 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 283 Warwick 19-Mar-17 19:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 298 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 385 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 353 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 17:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 407 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 287 Warwick 19-Mar-17 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 387 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 334 Audrey 19-Mar-17 19:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 394 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 352 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 300 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 365 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 245 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 21:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 345 Audrey 19-Mar-17 21:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 327 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 390 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 270 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 279 Audrey 20-Mar-17 01:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 377 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:36
kind request 421 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 01:48
Re: kind request 390 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 02:26
Re: kind request 363 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 02:42
Re: kind request 297 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 02:58
Re: kind request 338 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 03:16
Re: kind request 310 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:38
Re: kind request 307 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 10:39
Re: kind request 286 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 03:38
Re: kind request 275 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:43
Re: kind request 258 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 04:12
Re: kind request 284 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 06:22
Effects of contamination on RCD 328 Merrell 20-Mar-17 09:29
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 378 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 13:17
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 280 Merrell 20-Mar-17 13:57
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 266 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 14:15
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 266 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 14:46
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 301 Merrell 20-Mar-17 15:36
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 294 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 15:54
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 256 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 17:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 193 Warwick 20-Mar-17 17:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 246 Merrell 20-Mar-17 17:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 361 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 18:18
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 252 Warwick 20-Mar-17 19:10
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 319 Merrell 20-Mar-17 20:26
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 337 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 20:51
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 343 Audrey 21-Mar-17 02:16
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 233 Warwick 21-Mar-17 02:54
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 267 Audrey 21-Mar-17 03:23
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 249 cladking 21-Mar-17 02:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 347 Warwick 21-Mar-17 03:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 242 cladking 21-Mar-17 03:57
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 221 Warwick 21-Mar-17 04:18
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 314 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 10:35
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 243 cladking 21-Mar-17 22:15
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 291 Audrey 22-Mar-17 00:13
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 283 cladking 22-Mar-17 00:52
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 310 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 00:59
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 254 Audrey 22-Mar-17 03:14
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 331 Jon Ellison 22-Mar-17 12:09
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 375 Origyptian 22-Mar-17 13:48
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 382 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 00:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 302 cladking 22-Mar-17 01:09
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 469 Thunderbird 21-Mar-17 03:23
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 260 Warwick 21-Mar-17 03:32
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 359 Origyptian 21-Mar-17 03:45
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 248 Corpuscles 21-Mar-17 04:00
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 282 Warwick 21-Mar-17 04:22
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 299 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 09:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 299 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 09:47
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 350 Audrey 22-Mar-17 00:08
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 284 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 01:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 254 Audrey 23-Mar-17 04:14
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 277 Martin Stower 23-Mar-17 12:03
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 294 Audrey 24-Mar-17 00:35
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 246 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 00:55
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 287 Audrey 24-Mar-17 01:02
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 246 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 01:07
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 339 Audrey 24-Mar-17 04:42
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 307 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 14:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 291 Origyptian 24-Mar-17 14:43
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 427 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 15:24
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 573 Audrey 25-Mar-17 02:36
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 275 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 13:49
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 245 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 13:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 268 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 14:23
Re: kind request 270 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 02:53
Re: kind request 270 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:19
Re: kind request 344 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 02:50
Re: kind request 408 Audrey 20-Mar-17 03:09
Re: kind request 211 Warwick 20-Mar-17 13:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 325 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 20:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 254 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 235 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 21:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 342 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 22:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 397 Audrey 19-Mar-17 23:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 272 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 226 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 220 Warwick 20-Mar-17 14:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 370 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 17:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 274 Audrey 19-Mar-17 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 247 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 247 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:34
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 254 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 21:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 358 Audrey 19-Mar-17 21:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 309 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 22:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 237 Audrey 19-Mar-17 23:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 232 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 338 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 218 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 319 Audrey 20-Mar-17 01:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 234 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 318 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 21:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 333 Audrey 19-Mar-17 22:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 95 Warwick 18-Jun-17 18:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 173 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 13:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 216 Merrell 19-Jun-17 13:23
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 212 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 13:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 102 Warwick 19-Jun-17 16:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 230 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 19:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 92 Warwick 20-Jun-17 17:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 191 Origyptian 20-Jun-17 18:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 104 Warwick 20-Jun-17 19:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 396 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:34
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 319 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 00:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 219 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 229 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 302 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:28
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 437 Warwick 20-Mar-17 14:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 347 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 19:47
The Medium 225 Warwick 19-Mar-17 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 210 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 253 Frank D 22-Mar-02 01:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 218 Harry 22-Mar-02 01:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 110 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 16:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 151 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 143 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 138 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 232 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 571 gulsbo 20-Jun-17 20:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 140 Tommi Huhtamaki 19-Mar-02 17:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 177 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 119 Tommi Huhtamaki 19-Mar-02 17:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 151 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 143 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 140 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 152 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 138 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 128 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 101 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:33
Here, I highly doubt you'll bother... 278 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 12:31
Totally unconvincing 106 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:38
Re: Totally unconvincing 130 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:53
Re: Totally unconvincing 135 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:15
Re: Totally unconvincing 131 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:18
Re: Totally unconvincing 145 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:29
Re: Totally unconvincing 146 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 127 HectorChico 21-Mar-02 13:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 125 Harry 21-Mar-02 14:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 128 HectorChico 21-Mar-02 14:14
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 129 Mercury Rapids 19-Mar-02 19:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 130 Milo 19-Mar-02 17:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 132 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 123 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:49
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 121 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:55
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 118 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 136 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 117 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 134 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 127 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:39
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 132 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 122 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 122 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 136 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:55
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 127 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:57
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 120 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 119 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 145 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:03
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 147 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 122 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:14
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 132 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 120 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 126 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:54
Ortho admits defeat 106 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:56
Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 141 Pete Vanderzwet 19-Mar-02 20:00
Re: Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 118 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:05
Re: Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 121 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 142 Pete Vanderzwet 19-Mar-02 19:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 127 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 137 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 01:57
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 133 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 134 Milo 19-Mar-02 17:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 127 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 108 Milo 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 106 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 126 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 133 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 127 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 139 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:40
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 135 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 129 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 133 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 116 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 133 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 123 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 104 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 137 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 111 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 144 lobo-hotei 19-Mar-02 19:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 132 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 111 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:49
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 132 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 109 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 120 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 122 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:34
KHUFU -- HWFW -- "Holy Ancient One" 160 ARTiFact 19-Mar-02 21:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 145 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 02:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 129 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 119 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 120 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 113 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 103 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:48
Ian's Hypocrisy 151 Harry 21-Mar-02 12:38
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 106 Martin Stower 21-Mar-02 16:49
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 120 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:08
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 135 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:19
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 128 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 16:36
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 134 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:17
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 141 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 131 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 135 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 74 Harry 22-Mar-02 00:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 102 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 127 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:05
Ian's Hypocrisy Revisited 140 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:36
Ian admits his intellectual bankruptcy. 144 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:58
Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 146 R Avry Wilson 20-Mar-02 06:22
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 113 opti-mystic 20-Mar-02 07:59
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 103 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:46
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 128 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:42
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 149 Vladislaw 20-Mar-02 14:46
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 140 Harry 20-Mar-02 14:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 137 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 19:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 137 Harry 20-Mar-02 20:03
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 126 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 137 Harry 20-Mar-02 20:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 156 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 20:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 109 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 20:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 129 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 21:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 124 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 21:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 142 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 21:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 156 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 21:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 134 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 21:27
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 155 Paul Mallon 21-Mar-02 09:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 156 Harry 21-Mar-02 12:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 129 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 20:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 254 Warwick 18-Jun-17 18:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 350 Merrell 18-Jun-17 21:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 219 Warwick 19-Jun-17 05:48


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