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Origyptian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taylor ('87) quoted Säve-Söderbergh's 1969
> symposium presentation which included Brew's
> statement, and this was properly cited by Audrey
> as apparently the first time (the '69
> presentation) that Säve-Söderbergh formally
> presented Brew's statement. Brew's statement
> apparently was repeated by Säve-Söderbergh the
> following year in a paper published in the 1970
> proceedings volume. If Holloway claims
> Säve-Söderbergh's 1970 paper is the first
> mention of Brew's statement, Holloway may be
> mistaken since Taylor claims that
> Säve-Söderbergh first presented the quote the
> previous year in a live presentation at a
> different symposium.
>
> While Brew made the statement before
> Säve-Söderbergh's '69 presentation, such
> practice seemed to have been active at least to
> 1995 (after Taylor's '87 citation), based on the
> details of methodology stated in Bonani, et al.
> where half the data samples were not included in
> the study but rather were put in a "reserve" for
> no stated reason, a descrepancy between the
> retrospective date of the '84 Cayce Foundation
> study and the then-contemporaneous '95 samples was
> not adequately addressed by the authors, the
> discrepancy between the RCD data and historical
> data was not properly explained by the authors, no
> rationale was given for the method used to
> determine "outliers", and no explanation was given
> to assure that modern carbon was removed from the
> surface samples. When the RCD data didn't quite
> fit the historical data, the authors gravitated
> toward blaming the method without offering any
> consideration of whether the historic timeline
> might require adjustment.
>
> It may have been an old practice, but it wasn't
> extinct by the time Taylor cited it.

The proceedings of this symposium are actually quite interesting. I think you in particular would enjoy reading it for it gives several C14 test results and there is discussion of them. I would very much like to hear your take on them, if you have the time and inclination to read it. It's not very long and is available on archive.org but you have to register (no cost involved) and virtually check out the booklet which is why I can't post a link to it. At archive.org search for "Radiocarbon variations and absolute chronology", Soderbergh's section begins on page 35.

Cut and paste isn't an option so I took the time to type a couple excepts thinking there might be others interested. For clarification I typed the beginning of the first page of the booklet that tells how the symposium was conducted. For those who didn't catch it, this was a NOBEL symposium, as in the NOBEL Peace Prize.

Quote
Radiocarbon variations and absolute chronology
The programme of the Twelfth Nobel symposium included, besides the normal lectures, six discussions and one excursion devoted to special problems treated during the symposium. One session was public and the audience was free to raise questions or contribute to the discussion after the three introductory lectures. All the lectures had been distributed in advance to the participants and hence the symposium sessions could, to a large extent, be devoted to discussions.
The lectures and the discussions were recorded. Since the discussions were often long and covered subjects not treated in the papers, they have been condensed and in a few cases they have been only summarized as editorial remarks.

Quote
Abstract
The chronology of the Pharaonic civilization has been regarded as particularly well established and has therefore been used as a chronological basis, both for other cultures connected with Pharaonic Egypt and for the C14 method of dating.

Quote
C14 dating and Egyptian chronology by T. Save-Soderbergh and I.U. Olsson

INTRODUCTION

C14 dating was being discussed at a symposium on the prehistory of the Nile Valley. A famous American colleague, Professor Brew, briefly summarized a common attitude among archaeologists towards it, as follows:
"If a C14 date supports our theories, we put it in the main text. If it does not entirely contradict them, we put it in a foot-note. And if it is completely 'out of date', we just drop it"
Few archaeologists who have concerned themselves with absolute chronology are innocent of having sometimes applied this method, and many are still hesitant to accept C14 dates without reservations.
For this and many other reasons, it is of great importance to study the C14 variations and to work out an accurate correction scale by all the available checking methods.

......My task is to speak about the possibilities of using Egyptian chronology as a check on the C14 dates, and I shall therefore restrict myself to Pharaonic times.

Quote

C14 dating has been applied to Egyptian material for two reasons--to check the exactitude of the method with the aid of the absolute dates of Egyptian history, and to attempt to solve some uncertain points in Egyptian chronology.

I take this to mean that Egyptology's already established "absolute dates" are used to verify the tests. And that an "accurate correction scale" is needed to bring C14 dates in line with Egyptology's dates. How can they do this?!! How can 'historic', which has absolutely no calendar dates, be used to confirm a science test?!! It's absurd. The ancient Greeks had a calendar, although still not completely understood, and the Romans had one, so they can determine that Nero lived at such and such time. But the AE had no calendar.

Quote

Since these documents are all incomplete, we have to reconstruct the list of kings with the aid of other monuments and data, both contemporary and of much later date, such as Manetho's Egyptian history, compiled in the third century B.C. on the basis of old sources but unfortunately known to us only through still later excerpts.

Manetho is the backbone of Egyptian chronology, it always was.

Quote

It would have been easy to obtain excellent and reliably dated samples from the funerary ship of King Cheops, whose death can be dated to c. 2556 (maximum) and c. 2530 B.C. (minimum). We know that his ship was deposited near the pyramid by his successor Djedefre. Among other finds there were large quantities of decayed ropes in the shaft, which would have been excellent for C14 dating, thus avoiding the problems of large logs, inner growth rings, etc.
Instead three pieces of three different species of wood were used for one date. This sample should be reliable, the historical date is certain within rather narrow margins, and the find was safely sealed. But the C14 dating differs widely from the general trend of the period in question.

Really? Could the Egyptologists be wrong?

He who knows all the answers has not been asked all the questions - Confucius

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Orthos Hypocrisy 1958 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 323 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:36
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 336 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 335 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 312 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 292 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 234 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 314 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 281 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 289 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 354 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 341 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 262 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:23
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 247 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 331 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 323 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:39
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 262 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 278 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 233 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 267 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 315 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 338 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 269 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 264 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 289 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:10
And therein lies the end to the conversation. 257 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:19
Pz runs home to maat 300 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 314 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 03:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 282 Vladislaw 19-Mar-02 23:35
One Overlooked Consideration... 310 ARTiFact 20-Mar-02 00:57
Re: One Overlooked Consideration... 359 Vladislaw 20-Mar-02 14:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 290 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 03:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 265 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:36
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 259 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 270 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 314 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 254 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 280 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 252 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:28
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 259 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:29
Give us paint testing 265 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:33
Re: Give us paint testing 298 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:35
Re: Give us paint testing 283 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:45
Re: Give us paint testing 253 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:47
Re: Give us paint testing 264 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:54
Re: Give us paint testing 310 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 23:10
Re: Give us paint testing 254 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 19:58
Re: Give us paint testing 318 Harry 22-Mar-02 00:36
Re: Give us paint testing 250 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 277 Frank D 21-Mar-02 10:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 376 Martin Stower 21-Mar-02 16:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 338 Frank D 22-Mar-02 01:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 268 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 308 Frank D 22-Mar-02 10:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 389 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 04:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 435 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 10:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 296 Warwick 19-Mar-17 17:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 415 Audrey 19-Mar-17 17:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 386 Warwick 19-Mar-17 17:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 316 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 415 Warwick 19-Mar-17 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 400 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 285 Warwick 19-Mar-17 19:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 304 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 387 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 357 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 17:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 411 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 291 Warwick 19-Mar-17 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 391 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 344 Audrey 19-Mar-17 19:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 401 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 357 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 308 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 368 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 247 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 21:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 349 Audrey 19-Mar-17 21:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 331 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 393 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 274 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 282 Audrey 20-Mar-17 01:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 383 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:36
kind request 425 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 01:48
Re: kind request 395 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 02:26
Re: kind request 366 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 02:42
Re: kind request 300 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 02:58
Re: kind request 350 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 03:16
Re: kind request 320 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:38
Re: kind request 312 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 10:39
Re: kind request 289 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 03:38
Re: kind request 279 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:43
Re: kind request 261 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 04:12
Re: kind request 288 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 06:22
Effects of contamination on RCD 332 Merrell 20-Mar-17 09:29
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 381 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 13:17
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 292 Merrell 20-Mar-17 13:57
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 269 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 14:15
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 273 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 14:46
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 304 Merrell 20-Mar-17 15:36
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 298 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 15:54
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 259 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 17:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 197 Warwick 20-Mar-17 17:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 249 Merrell 20-Mar-17 17:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 366 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 18:18
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 255 Warwick 20-Mar-17 19:10
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 322 Merrell 20-Mar-17 20:26
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 342 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 20:51
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 346 Audrey 21-Mar-17 02:16
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 236 Warwick 21-Mar-17 02:54
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 270 Audrey 21-Mar-17 03:23
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 251 cladking 21-Mar-17 02:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 349 Warwick 21-Mar-17 03:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 245 cladking 21-Mar-17 03:57
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 224 Warwick 21-Mar-17 04:18
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 317 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 10:35
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 246 cladking 21-Mar-17 22:15
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 295 Audrey 22-Mar-17 00:13
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 286 cladking 22-Mar-17 00:52
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 314 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 00:59
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 256 Audrey 22-Mar-17 03:14
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 333 Jon Ellison 22-Mar-17 12:09
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 380 Origyptian 22-Mar-17 13:48
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 386 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 00:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 311 cladking 22-Mar-17 01:09
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 477 Thunderbird 21-Mar-17 03:23
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 265 Warwick 21-Mar-17 03:32
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 365 Origyptian 21-Mar-17 03:45
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 251 Corpuscles 21-Mar-17 04:00
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 285 Warwick 21-Mar-17 04:22
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 302 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 09:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 303 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 09:47
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 356 Audrey 22-Mar-17 00:08
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 287 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 01:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 257 Audrey 23-Mar-17 04:14
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 279 Martin Stower 23-Mar-17 12:03
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 298 Audrey 24-Mar-17 00:35
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 251 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 00:55
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 290 Audrey 24-Mar-17 01:02
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 249 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 01:07
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 342 Audrey 24-Mar-17 04:42
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 310 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 14:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 294 Origyptian 24-Mar-17 14:43
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 434 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 15:24
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 579 Audrey 25-Mar-17 02:36
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 278 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 13:49
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 251 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 13:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 270 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 14:23
Re: kind request 274 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 02:53
Re: kind request 273 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:19
Re: kind request 348 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 02:50
Re: kind request 415 Audrey 20-Mar-17 03:09
Re: kind request 214 Warwick 20-Mar-17 13:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 331 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 20:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 257 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 238 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 21:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 347 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 22:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 400 Audrey 19-Mar-17 23:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 275 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 230 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 223 Warwick 20-Mar-17 14:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 372 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 17:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 277 Audrey 19-Mar-17 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 251 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 249 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:34
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 258 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 21:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 361 Audrey 19-Mar-17 21:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 312 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 22:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 242 Audrey 19-Mar-17 23:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 236 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 344 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 222 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 323 Audrey 20-Mar-17 01:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 237 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 321 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 21:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 336 Audrey 19-Mar-17 22:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 97 Warwick 18-Jun-17 18:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 176 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 13:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 219 Merrell 19-Jun-17 13:23
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 219 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 13:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 107 Warwick 19-Jun-17 16:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 233 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 19:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 95 Warwick 20-Jun-17 17:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 197 Origyptian 20-Jun-17 18:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 107 Warwick 20-Jun-17 19:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 404 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:34
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 327 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 00:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 224 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 233 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 305 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:28
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 444 Warwick 20-Mar-17 14:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 351 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 19:47
The Medium 229 Warwick 19-Mar-17 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 212 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 256 Frank D 22-Mar-02 01:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 221 Harry 22-Mar-02 01:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 113 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 16:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 155 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 149 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 140 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 236 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 585 gulsbo 20-Jun-17 20:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 143 Tommi Huhtamaki 19-Mar-02 17:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 181 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 122 Tommi Huhtamaki 19-Mar-02 17:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 156 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 146 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 143 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 155 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 142 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 132 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 105 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:33
Here, I highly doubt you'll bother... 285 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 12:31
Totally unconvincing 108 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:38
Re: Totally unconvincing 134 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:53
Re: Totally unconvincing 137 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:15
Re: Totally unconvincing 134 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:18
Re: Totally unconvincing 149 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:29
Re: Totally unconvincing 149 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 130 HectorChico 21-Mar-02 13:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 129 Harry 21-Mar-02 14:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 131 HectorChico 21-Mar-02 14:14
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 131 Mercury Rapids 19-Mar-02 19:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 135 Milo 19-Mar-02 17:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 135 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 128 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:49
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 123 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:55
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 121 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 138 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 121 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 137 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 130 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:39
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 136 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 128 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 126 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 140 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:55
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 129 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:57
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 123 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 122 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 149 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:03
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 151 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 126 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:14
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 135 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 123 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 129 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:54
Ortho admits defeat 110 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:56
Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 145 Pete Vanderzwet 19-Mar-02 20:00
Re: Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 121 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:05
Re: Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 124 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 144 Pete Vanderzwet 19-Mar-02 19:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 131 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 139 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 01:57
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 136 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 137 Milo 19-Mar-02 17:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 130 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 111 Milo 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 109 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 129 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 136 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 129 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 146 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:40
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 139 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 135 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 137 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 118 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 137 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 125 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 108 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 140 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 117 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 148 lobo-hotei 19-Mar-02 19:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 136 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 113 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:49
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 139 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 113 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 124 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 125 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:34
KHUFU -- HWFW -- "Holy Ancient One" 163 ARTiFact 19-Mar-02 21:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 152 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 02:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 133 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 126 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 123 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 117 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 107 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:48
Ian's Hypocrisy 155 Harry 21-Mar-02 12:38
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 109 Martin Stower 21-Mar-02 16:49
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 124 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:08
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 137 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:19
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 135 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 16:36
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 138 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:17
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 145 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 134 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 138 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 76 Harry 22-Mar-02 00:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 107 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 132 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:05
Ian's Hypocrisy Revisited 144 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:36
Ian admits his intellectual bankruptcy. 148 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:58
Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 150 R Avry Wilson 20-Mar-02 06:22
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 115 opti-mystic 20-Mar-02 07:59
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 107 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:46
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 131 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:42
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 152 Vladislaw 20-Mar-02 14:46
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 145 Harry 20-Mar-02 14:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 140 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 19:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 141 Harry 20-Mar-02 20:03
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 131 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 140 Harry 20-Mar-02 20:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 159 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 20:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 113 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 20:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 132 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 21:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 130 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 21:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 145 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 21:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 159 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 21:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 138 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 21:27
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 158 Paul Mallon 21-Mar-02 09:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 159 Harry 21-Mar-02 12:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 131 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 20:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 257 Warwick 18-Jun-17 18:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 356 Merrell 18-Jun-17 21:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 226 Warwick 19-Jun-17 05:48


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