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Origyptian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taylor ('87) quoted Säve-Söderbergh's 1969
> symposium presentation which included Brew's
> statement, and this was properly cited by Audrey
> as apparently the first time (the '69
> presentation) that Säve-Söderbergh formally
> presented Brew's statement. Brew's statement
> apparently was repeated by Säve-Söderbergh the
> following year in a paper published in the 1970
> proceedings volume. If Holloway claims
> Säve-Söderbergh's 1970 paper is the first
> mention of Brew's statement, Holloway may be
> mistaken since Taylor claims that
> Säve-Söderbergh first presented the quote the
> previous year in a live presentation at a
> different symposium.
>
> While Brew made the statement before
> Säve-Söderbergh's '69 presentation, such
> practice seemed to have been active at least to
> 1995 (after Taylor's '87 citation), based on the
> details of methodology stated in Bonani, et al.
> where half the data samples were not included in
> the study but rather were put in a "reserve" for
> no stated reason, a descrepancy between the
> retrospective date of the '84 Cayce Foundation
> study and the then-contemporaneous '95 samples was
> not adequately addressed by the authors, the
> discrepancy between the RCD data and historical
> data was not properly explained by the authors, no
> rationale was given for the method used to
> determine "outliers", and no explanation was given
> to assure that modern carbon was removed from the
> surface samples. When the RCD data didn't quite
> fit the historical data, the authors gravitated
> toward blaming the method without offering any
> consideration of whether the historic timeline
> might require adjustment.
>
> It may have been an old practice, but it wasn't
> extinct by the time Taylor cited it.

The proceedings of this symposium are actually quite interesting. I think you in particular would enjoy reading it for it gives several C14 test results and there is discussion of them. I would very much like to hear your take on them, if you have the time and inclination to read it. It's not very long and is available on archive.org but you have to register (no cost involved) and virtually check out the booklet which is why I can't post a link to it. At archive.org search for "Radiocarbon variations and absolute chronology", Soderbergh's section begins on page 35.

Cut and paste isn't an option so I took the time to type a couple excepts thinking there might be others interested. For clarification I typed the beginning of the first page of the booklet that tells how the symposium was conducted. For those who didn't catch it, this was a NOBEL symposium, as in the NOBEL Peace Prize.

Quote
Radiocarbon variations and absolute chronology
The programme of the Twelfth Nobel symposium included, besides the normal lectures, six discussions and one excursion devoted to special problems treated during the symposium. One session was public and the audience was free to raise questions or contribute to the discussion after the three introductory lectures. All the lectures had been distributed in advance to the participants and hence the symposium sessions could, to a large extent, be devoted to discussions.
The lectures and the discussions were recorded. Since the discussions were often long and covered subjects not treated in the papers, they have been condensed and in a few cases they have been only summarized as editorial remarks.

Quote
Abstract
The chronology of the Pharaonic civilization has been regarded as particularly well established and has therefore been used as a chronological basis, both for other cultures connected with Pharaonic Egypt and for the C14 method of dating.

Quote
C14 dating and Egyptian chronology by T. Save-Soderbergh and I.U. Olsson

INTRODUCTION

C14 dating was being discussed at a symposium on the prehistory of the Nile Valley. A famous American colleague, Professor Brew, briefly summarized a common attitude among archaeologists towards it, as follows:
"If a C14 date supports our theories, we put it in the main text. If it does not entirely contradict them, we put it in a foot-note. And if it is completely 'out of date', we just drop it"
Few archaeologists who have concerned themselves with absolute chronology are innocent of having sometimes applied this method, and many are still hesitant to accept C14 dates without reservations.
For this and many other reasons, it is of great importance to study the C14 variations and to work out an accurate correction scale by all the available checking methods.

......My task is to speak about the possibilities of using Egyptian chronology as a check on the C14 dates, and I shall therefore restrict myself to Pharaonic times.

Quote

C14 dating has been applied to Egyptian material for two reasons--to check the exactitude of the method with the aid of the absolute dates of Egyptian history, and to attempt to solve some uncertain points in Egyptian chronology.

I take this to mean that Egyptology's already established "absolute dates" are used to verify the tests. And that an "accurate correction scale" is needed to bring C14 dates in line with Egyptology's dates. How can they do this?!! How can 'historic', which has absolutely no calendar dates, be used to confirm a science test?!! It's absurd. The ancient Greeks had a calendar, although still not completely understood, and the Romans had one, so they can determine that Nero lived at such and such time. But the AE had no calendar.

Quote

Since these documents are all incomplete, we have to reconstruct the list of kings with the aid of other monuments and data, both contemporary and of much later date, such as Manetho's Egyptian history, compiled in the third century B.C. on the basis of old sources but unfortunately known to us only through still later excerpts.

Manetho is the backbone of Egyptian chronology, it always was.

Quote

It would have been easy to obtain excellent and reliably dated samples from the funerary ship of King Cheops, whose death can be dated to c. 2556 (maximum) and c. 2530 B.C. (minimum). We know that his ship was deposited near the pyramid by his successor Djedefre. Among other finds there were large quantities of decayed ropes in the shaft, which would have been excellent for C14 dating, thus avoiding the problems of large logs, inner growth rings, etc.
Instead three pieces of three different species of wood were used for one date. This sample should be reliable, the historical date is certain within rather narrow margins, and the find was safely sealed. But the C14 dating differs widely from the general trend of the period in question.

Really? Could the Egyptologists be wrong?

He who knows all the answers has not been asked all the questions - Confucius

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Orthos Hypocrisy 1878 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 305 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:36
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 316 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 317 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 291 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 273 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 214 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 296 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 261 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 270 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 327 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 310 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 244 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:23
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 225 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 310 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 301 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:39
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 242 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 258 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 215 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 248 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 291 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 317 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 249 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 245 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 262 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:10
And therein lies the end to the conversation. 239 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:19
Pz runs home to maat 269 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 293 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 03:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 261 Vladislaw 19-Mar-02 23:35
One Overlooked Consideration... 291 ARTiFact 20-Mar-02 00:57
Re: One Overlooked Consideration... 331 Vladislaw 20-Mar-02 14:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 273 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 03:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 245 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:36
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 242 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 251 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 295 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 232 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 264 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 234 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:28
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 241 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:29
Give us paint testing 244 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:33
Re: Give us paint testing 278 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:35
Re: Give us paint testing 259 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:45
Re: Give us paint testing 232 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:47
Re: Give us paint testing 242 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:54
Re: Give us paint testing 293 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 23:10
Re: Give us paint testing 236 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 19:58
Re: Give us paint testing 298 Harry 22-Mar-02 00:36
Re: Give us paint testing 228 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 258 Frank D 21-Mar-02 10:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 353 Martin Stower 21-Mar-02 16:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 318 Frank D 22-Mar-02 01:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 246 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 291 Frank D 22-Mar-02 10:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 370 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 04:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 413 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 10:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 276 Warwick 19-Mar-17 17:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 393 Audrey 19-Mar-17 17:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 360 Warwick 19-Mar-17 17:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 296 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 386 Warwick 19-Mar-17 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 380 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 268 Warwick 19-Mar-17 19:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 274 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 361 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 341 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 17:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 388 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 272 Warwick 19-Mar-17 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 368 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 314 Audrey 19-Mar-17 19:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 370 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 333 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 279 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 353 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 228 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 21:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 331 Audrey 19-Mar-17 21:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 311 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 369 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 253 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 263 Audrey 20-Mar-17 01:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 357 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:36
kind request 405 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 01:48
Re: kind request 367 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 02:26
Re: kind request 344 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 02:42
Re: kind request 282 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 02:58
Re: kind request 320 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 03:16
Re: kind request 287 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:38
Re: kind request 290 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 10:39
Re: kind request 266 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 03:38
Re: kind request 257 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:43
Re: kind request 241 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 04:12
Re: kind request 271 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 06:22
Effects of contamination on RCD 309 Merrell 20-Mar-17 09:29
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 357 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 13:17
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 265 Merrell 20-Mar-17 13:57
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 250 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 14:15
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 250 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 14:46
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 283 Merrell 20-Mar-17 15:36
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 280 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 15:54
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 241 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 17:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 178 Warwick 20-Mar-17 17:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 230 Merrell 20-Mar-17 17:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 339 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 18:18
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 236 Warwick 20-Mar-17 19:10
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 302 Merrell 20-Mar-17 20:26
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 315 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 20:51
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 330 Audrey 21-Mar-17 02:16
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 218 Warwick 21-Mar-17 02:54
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 252 Audrey 21-Mar-17 03:23
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 236 cladking 21-Mar-17 02:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 327 Warwick 21-Mar-17 03:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 225 cladking 21-Mar-17 03:57
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 210 Warwick 21-Mar-17 04:18
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 300 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 10:35
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 225 cladking 21-Mar-17 22:15
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 275 Audrey 22-Mar-17 00:13
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 264 cladking 22-Mar-17 00:52
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 293 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 00:59
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 238 Audrey 22-Mar-17 03:14
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 311 Jon Ellison 22-Mar-17 12:09
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 362 Origyptian 22-Mar-17 13:48
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 367 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 00:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 285 cladking 22-Mar-17 01:09
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 441 Thunderbird 21-Mar-17 03:23
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 244 Warwick 21-Mar-17 03:32
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 338 Origyptian 21-Mar-17 03:45
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 233 Corpuscles 21-Mar-17 04:00
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 266 Warwick 21-Mar-17 04:22
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 281 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 09:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 281 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 09:47
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 333 Audrey 22-Mar-17 00:08
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 267 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 01:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 240 Audrey 23-Mar-17 04:14
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 262 Martin Stower 23-Mar-17 12:03
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 273 Audrey 24-Mar-17 00:35
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 231 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 00:55
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 264 Audrey 24-Mar-17 01:02
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 229 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 01:07
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 326 Audrey 24-Mar-17 04:42
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 289 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 14:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 273 Origyptian 24-Mar-17 14:43
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 393 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 15:24
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 544 Audrey 25-Mar-17 02:36
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 257 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 13:49
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 224 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 13:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 252 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 14:23
Re: kind request 254 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 02:53
Re: kind request 248 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:19
Re: kind request 322 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 02:50
Re: kind request 391 Audrey 20-Mar-17 03:09
Re: kind request 196 Warwick 20-Mar-17 13:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 303 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 20:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 237 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 221 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 21:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 319 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 22:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 382 Audrey 19-Mar-17 23:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 256 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 208 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 207 Warwick 20-Mar-17 14:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 350 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 17:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 257 Audrey 19-Mar-17 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 233 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 232 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:34
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 236 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 21:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 333 Audrey 19-Mar-17 21:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 295 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 22:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 219 Audrey 19-Mar-17 23:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 217 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 317 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 204 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 302 Audrey 20-Mar-17 01:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 220 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 301 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 21:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 314 Audrey 19-Mar-17 22:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 82 Warwick 18-Jun-17 18:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 161 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 13:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 203 Merrell 19-Jun-17 13:23
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 200 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 13:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 90 Warwick 19-Jun-17 16:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 215 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 19:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 79 Warwick 20-Jun-17 17:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 170 Origyptian 20-Jun-17 18:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 90 Warwick 20-Jun-17 19:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 370 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:34
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 292 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 00:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 199 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 208 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 277 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:28
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 421 Warwick 20-Mar-17 14:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 326 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 19:47
The Medium 203 Warwick 19-Mar-17 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 195 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 234 Frank D 22-Mar-02 01:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 198 Harry 22-Mar-02 01:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 95 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 16:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 130 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 122 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 124 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 213 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 524 gulsbo 20-Jun-17 20:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 126 Tommi Huhtamaki 19-Mar-02 17:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 160 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 98 Tommi Huhtamaki 19-Mar-02 17:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 133 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 126 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 124 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 134 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 113 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 110 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 84 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:33
Here, I highly doubt you'll bother... 256 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 12:31
Totally unconvincing 92 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:38
Re: Totally unconvincing 116 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:53
Re: Totally unconvincing 120 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:15
Re: Totally unconvincing 113 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:18
Re: Totally unconvincing 129 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:29
Re: Totally unconvincing 132 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 111 HectorChico 21-Mar-02 13:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 109 Harry 21-Mar-02 14:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 114 HectorChico 21-Mar-02 14:14
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 114 Mercury Rapids 19-Mar-02 19:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 106 Milo 19-Mar-02 17:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 120 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 107 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:49
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 100 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:55
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 106 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 119 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 103 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 116 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 113 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:39
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 117 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 102 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 106 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 114 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:55
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 113 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:57
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 104 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 96 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 131 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:03
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 129 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 106 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:14
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 113 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 106 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 110 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:54
Ortho admits defeat 90 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:56
Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 127 Pete Vanderzwet 19-Mar-02 20:00
Re: Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 104 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:05
Re: Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 105 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 126 Pete Vanderzwet 19-Mar-02 19:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 110 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 124 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 01:57
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 116 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 122 Milo 19-Mar-02 17:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 111 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 93 Milo 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 88 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 113 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 114 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 112 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 115 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:40
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 120 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 113 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 115 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 102 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 120 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 105 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 90 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 123 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 95 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 126 lobo-hotei 19-Mar-02 19:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 115 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 95 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:49
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 117 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 95 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 107 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 106 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:34
KHUFU -- HWFW -- "Holy Ancient One" 145 ARTiFact 19-Mar-02 21:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 130 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 02:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 115 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 104 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 105 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 99 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 89 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:48
Ian's Hypocrisy 135 Harry 21-Mar-02 12:38
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 89 Martin Stower 21-Mar-02 16:49
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 108 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:08
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 123 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:19
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 112 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 16:36
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 118 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:17
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 127 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 115 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 119 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 63 Harry 22-Mar-02 00:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 84 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 112 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:05
Ian's Hypocrisy Revisited 125 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:36
Ian admits his intellectual bankruptcy. 127 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:58
Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 130 R Avry Wilson 20-Mar-02 06:22
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 100 opti-mystic 20-Mar-02 07:59
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 88 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:46
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 112 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:42
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 135 Vladislaw 20-Mar-02 14:46
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 128 Harry 20-Mar-02 14:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 122 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 19:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 123 Harry 20-Mar-02 20:03
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 110 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 122 Harry 20-Mar-02 20:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 140 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 20:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 96 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 20:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 112 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 21:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 108 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 21:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 129 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 21:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 140 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 21:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 120 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 21:27
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 140 Paul Mallon 21-Mar-02 09:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 139 Harry 21-Mar-02 12:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 115 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 20:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 237 Warwick 18-Jun-17 18:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 331 Merrell 18-Jun-17 21:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 201 Warwick 19-Jun-17 05:48


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