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Origyptian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taylor ('87) quoted Säve-Söderbergh's 1969
> symposium presentation which included Brew's
> statement, and this was properly cited by Audrey
> as apparently the first time (the '69
> presentation) that Säve-Söderbergh formally
> presented Brew's statement. Brew's statement
> apparently was repeated by Säve-Söderbergh the
> following year in a paper published in the 1970
> proceedings volume. If Holloway claims
> Säve-Söderbergh's 1970 paper is the first
> mention of Brew's statement, Holloway may be
> mistaken since Taylor claims that
> Säve-Söderbergh first presented the quote the
> previous year in a live presentation at a
> different symposium.
>
> While Brew made the statement before
> Säve-Söderbergh's '69 presentation, such
> practice seemed to have been active at least to
> 1995 (after Taylor's '87 citation), based on the
> details of methodology stated in Bonani, et al.
> where half the data samples were not included in
> the study but rather were put in a "reserve" for
> no stated reason, a descrepancy between the
> retrospective date of the '84 Cayce Foundation
> study and the then-contemporaneous '95 samples was
> not adequately addressed by the authors, the
> discrepancy between the RCD data and historical
> data was not properly explained by the authors, no
> rationale was given for the method used to
> determine "outliers", and no explanation was given
> to assure that modern carbon was removed from the
> surface samples. When the RCD data didn't quite
> fit the historical data, the authors gravitated
> toward blaming the method without offering any
> consideration of whether the historic timeline
> might require adjustment.
>
> It may have been an old practice, but it wasn't
> extinct by the time Taylor cited it.

The proceedings of this symposium are actually quite interesting. I think you in particular would enjoy reading it for it gives several C14 test results and there is discussion of them. I would very much like to hear your take on them, if you have the time and inclination to read it. It's not very long and is available on archive.org but you have to register (no cost involved) and virtually check out the booklet which is why I can't post a link to it. At archive.org search for "Radiocarbon variations and absolute chronology", Soderbergh's section begins on page 35.

Cut and paste isn't an option so I took the time to type a couple excepts thinking there might be others interested. For clarification I typed the beginning of the first page of the booklet that tells how the symposium was conducted. For those who didn't catch it, this was a NOBEL symposium, as in the NOBEL Peace Prize.

Quote
Radiocarbon variations and absolute chronology
The programme of the Twelfth Nobel symposium included, besides the normal lectures, six discussions and one excursion devoted to special problems treated during the symposium. One session was public and the audience was free to raise questions or contribute to the discussion after the three introductory lectures. All the lectures had been distributed in advance to the participants and hence the symposium sessions could, to a large extent, be devoted to discussions.
The lectures and the discussions were recorded. Since the discussions were often long and covered subjects not treated in the papers, they have been condensed and in a few cases they have been only summarized as editorial remarks.

Quote
Abstract
The chronology of the Pharaonic civilization has been regarded as particularly well established and has therefore been used as a chronological basis, both for other cultures connected with Pharaonic Egypt and for the C14 method of dating.

Quote
C14 dating and Egyptian chronology by T. Save-Soderbergh and I.U. Olsson

INTRODUCTION

C14 dating was being discussed at a symposium on the prehistory of the Nile Valley. A famous American colleague, Professor Brew, briefly summarized a common attitude among archaeologists towards it, as follows:
"If a C14 date supports our theories, we put it in the main text. If it does not entirely contradict them, we put it in a foot-note. And if it is completely 'out of date', we just drop it"
Few archaeologists who have concerned themselves with absolute chronology are innocent of having sometimes applied this method, and many are still hesitant to accept C14 dates without reservations.
For this and many other reasons, it is of great importance to study the C14 variations and to work out an accurate correction scale by all the available checking methods.

......My task is to speak about the possibilities of using Egyptian chronology as a check on the C14 dates, and I shall therefore restrict myself to Pharaonic times.

Quote

C14 dating has been applied to Egyptian material for two reasons--to check the exactitude of the method with the aid of the absolute dates of Egyptian history, and to attempt to solve some uncertain points in Egyptian chronology.

I take this to mean that Egyptology's already established "absolute dates" are used to verify the tests. And that an "accurate correction scale" is needed to bring C14 dates in line with Egyptology's dates. How can they do this?!! How can 'historic', which has absolutely no calendar dates, be used to confirm a science test?!! It's absurd. The ancient Greeks had a calendar, although still not completely understood, and the Romans had one, so they can determine that Nero lived at such and such time. But the AE had no calendar.

Quote

Since these documents are all incomplete, we have to reconstruct the list of kings with the aid of other monuments and data, both contemporary and of much later date, such as Manetho's Egyptian history, compiled in the third century B.C. on the basis of old sources but unfortunately known to us only through still later excerpts.

Manetho is the backbone of Egyptian chronology, it always was.

Quote

It would have been easy to obtain excellent and reliably dated samples from the funerary ship of King Cheops, whose death can be dated to c. 2556 (maximum) and c. 2530 B.C. (minimum). We know that his ship was deposited near the pyramid by his successor Djedefre. Among other finds there were large quantities of decayed ropes in the shaft, which would have been excellent for C14 dating, thus avoiding the problems of large logs, inner growth rings, etc.
Instead three pieces of three different species of wood were used for one date. This sample should be reliable, the historical date is certain within rather narrow margins, and the find was safely sealed. But the C14 dating differs widely from the general trend of the period in question.

Really? Could the Egyptologists be wrong?

He who knows all the answers has not been asked all the questions - Confucius

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Orthos Hypocrisy 1908 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 312 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:36
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 325 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 323 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 301 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 281 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 220 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 302 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 271 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 278 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 336 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 324 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 251 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:23
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 235 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 320 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 310 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:39
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 251 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 268 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 221 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 256 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 302 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 326 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 257 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 253 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 270 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:10
And therein lies the end to the conversation. 245 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:19
Pz runs home to maat 289 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 302 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 03:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 270 Vladislaw 19-Mar-02 23:35
One Overlooked Consideration... 298 ARTiFact 20-Mar-02 00:57
Re: One Overlooked Consideration... 347 Vladislaw 20-Mar-02 14:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 280 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 03:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 254 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:36
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 248 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 258 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 303 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 241 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 270 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 241 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:28
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 246 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:29
Give us paint testing 254 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:33
Re: Give us paint testing 287 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:35
Re: Give us paint testing 269 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:45
Re: Give us paint testing 242 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:47
Re: Give us paint testing 253 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:54
Re: Give us paint testing 299 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 23:10
Re: Give us paint testing 244 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 19:58
Re: Give us paint testing 307 Harry 22-Mar-02 00:36
Re: Give us paint testing 239 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 266 Frank D 21-Mar-02 10:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 362 Martin Stower 21-Mar-02 16:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 328 Frank D 22-Mar-02 01:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 257 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 298 Frank D 22-Mar-02 10:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 378 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 04:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 422 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 10:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 286 Warwick 19-Mar-17 17:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 402 Audrey 19-Mar-17 17:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 373 Warwick 19-Mar-17 17:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 304 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 399 Warwick 19-Mar-17 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 389 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 276 Warwick 19-Mar-17 19:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 285 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 377 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 347 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 17:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 397 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 281 Warwick 19-Mar-17 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 381 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 324 Audrey 19-Mar-17 19:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 382 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 345 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 288 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 359 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 237 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 21:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 339 Audrey 19-Mar-17 21:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 318 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 383 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 264 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 273 Audrey 20-Mar-17 01:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 366 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:36
kind request 415 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 01:48
Re: kind request 381 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 02:26
Re: kind request 355 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 02:42
Re: kind request 291 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 02:58
Re: kind request 331 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 03:16
Re: kind request 296 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:38
Re: kind request 300 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 10:39
Re: kind request 277 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 03:38
Re: kind request 268 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:43
Re: kind request 251 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 04:12
Re: kind request 278 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 06:22
Effects of contamination on RCD 319 Merrell 20-Mar-17 09:29
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 366 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 13:17
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 273 Merrell 20-Mar-17 13:57
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 258 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 14:15
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 258 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 14:46
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 293 Merrell 20-Mar-17 15:36
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 286 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 15:54
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 249 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 17:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 186 Warwick 20-Mar-17 17:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 239 Merrell 20-Mar-17 17:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 349 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 18:18
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 243 Warwick 20-Mar-17 19:10
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 312 Merrell 20-Mar-17 20:26
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 324 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 20:51
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 337 Audrey 21-Mar-17 02:16
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 227 Warwick 21-Mar-17 02:54
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 260 Audrey 21-Mar-17 03:23
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 242 cladking 21-Mar-17 02:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 339 Warwick 21-Mar-17 03:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 234 cladking 21-Mar-17 03:57
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 215 Warwick 21-Mar-17 04:18
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 307 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 10:35
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 236 cladking 21-Mar-17 22:15
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 285 Audrey 22-Mar-17 00:13
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 276 cladking 22-Mar-17 00:52
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 304 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 00:59
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 246 Audrey 22-Mar-17 03:14
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 323 Jon Ellison 22-Mar-17 12:09
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 369 Origyptian 22-Mar-17 13:48
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 376 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 00:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 296 cladking 22-Mar-17 01:09
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 453 Thunderbird 21-Mar-17 03:23
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 252 Warwick 21-Mar-17 03:32
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 349 Origyptian 21-Mar-17 03:45
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 241 Corpuscles 21-Mar-17 04:00
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 272 Warwick 21-Mar-17 04:22
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 293 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 09:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 293 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 09:47
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 344 Audrey 22-Mar-17 00:08
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 278 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 01:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 247 Audrey 23-Mar-17 04:14
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 270 Martin Stower 23-Mar-17 12:03
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 285 Audrey 24-Mar-17 00:35
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 240 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 00:55
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 275 Audrey 24-Mar-17 01:02
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 240 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 01:07
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 334 Audrey 24-Mar-17 04:42
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 298 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 14:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 285 Origyptian 24-Mar-17 14:43
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 411 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 15:24
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 559 Audrey 25-Mar-17 02:36
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 269 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 13:49
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 237 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 13:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 259 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 14:23
Re: kind request 263 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 02:53
Re: kind request 259 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:19
Re: kind request 336 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 02:50
Re: kind request 400 Audrey 20-Mar-17 03:09
Re: kind request 204 Warwick 20-Mar-17 13:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 315 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 20:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 246 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 228 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 21:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 331 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 22:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 389 Audrey 19-Mar-17 23:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 265 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 219 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 213 Warwick 20-Mar-17 14:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 361 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 17:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 267 Audrey 19-Mar-17 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 241 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 240 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:34
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 245 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 21:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 348 Audrey 19-Mar-17 21:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 302 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 22:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 227 Audrey 19-Mar-17 23:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 226 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 328 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 210 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 313 Audrey 20-Mar-17 01:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 227 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 311 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 21:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 324 Audrey 19-Mar-17 22:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 87 Warwick 18-Jun-17 18:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 166 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 13:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 209 Merrell 19-Jun-17 13:23
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 205 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 13:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 95 Warwick 19-Jun-17 16:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 222 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 19:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 85 Warwick 20-Jun-17 17:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 179 Origyptian 20-Jun-17 18:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 98 Warwick 20-Jun-17 19:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 384 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:34
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 304 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 00:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 207 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 219 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 289 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:28
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 431 Warwick 20-Mar-17 14:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 340 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 19:47
The Medium 213 Warwick 19-Mar-17 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 202 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 244 Frank D 22-Mar-02 01:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 210 Harry 22-Mar-02 01:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 103 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 16:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 142 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 132 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 130 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 225 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 547 gulsbo 20-Jun-17 20:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 133 Tommi Huhtamaki 19-Mar-02 17:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 168 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 109 Tommi Huhtamaki 19-Mar-02 17:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 141 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 136 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 133 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 145 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 127 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 120 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 94 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:33
Here, I highly doubt you'll bother... 265 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 12:31
Totally unconvincing 96 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:38
Re: Totally unconvincing 123 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:53
Re: Totally unconvincing 127 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:15
Re: Totally unconvincing 123 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:18
Re: Totally unconvincing 138 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:29
Re: Totally unconvincing 138 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 119 HectorChico 21-Mar-02 13:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 117 Harry 21-Mar-02 14:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 120 HectorChico 21-Mar-02 14:14
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 120 Mercury Rapids 19-Mar-02 19:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 121 Milo 19-Mar-02 17:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 125 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 115 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:49
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 111 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:55
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 111 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 127 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 110 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 126 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 119 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:39
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 124 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 111 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 116 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 127 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:55
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 119 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:57
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 111 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 105 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 138 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:03
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 135 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 114 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:14
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 123 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 113 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 118 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:54
Ortho admits defeat 97 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:56
Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 134 Pete Vanderzwet 19-Mar-02 20:00
Re: Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 111 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:05
Re: Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 112 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 133 Pete Vanderzwet 19-Mar-02 19:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 119 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 129 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 01:57
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 124 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 127 Milo 19-Mar-02 17:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 119 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 98 Milo 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 97 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 119 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 124 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 119 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 125 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:40
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 128 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 120 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 125 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 108 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 126 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 113 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 95 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 128 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 103 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 135 lobo-hotei 19-Mar-02 19:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 124 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 100 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:49
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 123 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 101 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 112 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 112 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:34
KHUFU -- HWFW -- "Holy Ancient One" 151 ARTiFact 19-Mar-02 21:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 136 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 02:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 122 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 110 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 113 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 104 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 96 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:48
Ian's Hypocrisy 144 Harry 21-Mar-02 12:38
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 95 Martin Stower 21-Mar-02 16:49
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 113 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:08
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 127 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:19
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 118 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 16:36
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 124 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:17
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 134 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 123 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 127 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 67 Harry 22-Mar-02 00:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 94 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 120 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:05
Ian's Hypocrisy Revisited 132 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:36
Ian admits his intellectual bankruptcy. 134 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:58
Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 138 R Avry Wilson 20-Mar-02 06:22
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 105 opti-mystic 20-Mar-02 07:59
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 95 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:46
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 119 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:42
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 141 Vladislaw 20-Mar-02 14:46
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 133 Harry 20-Mar-02 14:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 129 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 19:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 130 Harry 20-Mar-02 20:03
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 118 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 129 Harry 20-Mar-02 20:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 147 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 20:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 101 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 20:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 119 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 21:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 116 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 21:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 135 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 21:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 149 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 21:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 127 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 21:27
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 147 Paul Mallon 21-Mar-02 09:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 146 Harry 21-Mar-02 12:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 121 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 20:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 246 Warwick 18-Jun-17 18:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 342 Merrell 18-Jun-17 21:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 210 Warwick 19-Jun-17 05:48


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