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Origyptian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taylor ('87) quoted Säve-Söderbergh's 1969
> symposium presentation which included Brew's
> statement, and this was properly cited by Audrey
> as apparently the first time (the '69
> presentation) that Säve-Söderbergh formally
> presented Brew's statement. Brew's statement
> apparently was repeated by Säve-Söderbergh the
> following year in a paper published in the 1970
> proceedings volume. If Holloway claims
> Säve-Söderbergh's 1970 paper is the first
> mention of Brew's statement, Holloway may be
> mistaken since Taylor claims that
> Säve-Söderbergh first presented the quote the
> previous year in a live presentation at a
> different symposium.
>
> While Brew made the statement before
> Säve-Söderbergh's '69 presentation, such
> practice seemed to have been active at least to
> 1995 (after Taylor's '87 citation), based on the
> details of methodology stated in Bonani, et al.
> where half the data samples were not included in
> the study but rather were put in a "reserve" for
> no stated reason, a descrepancy between the
> retrospective date of the '84 Cayce Foundation
> study and the then-contemporaneous '95 samples was
> not adequately addressed by the authors, the
> discrepancy between the RCD data and historical
> data was not properly explained by the authors, no
> rationale was given for the method used to
> determine "outliers", and no explanation was given
> to assure that modern carbon was removed from the
> surface samples. When the RCD data didn't quite
> fit the historical data, the authors gravitated
> toward blaming the method without offering any
> consideration of whether the historic timeline
> might require adjustment.
>
> It may have been an old practice, but it wasn't
> extinct by the time Taylor cited it.

The proceedings of this symposium are actually quite interesting. I think you in particular would enjoy reading it for it gives several C14 test results and there is discussion of them. I would very much like to hear your take on them, if you have the time and inclination to read it. It's not very long and is available on archive.org but you have to register (no cost involved) and virtually check out the booklet which is why I can't post a link to it. At archive.org search for "Radiocarbon variations and absolute chronology", Soderbergh's section begins on page 35.

Cut and paste isn't an option so I took the time to type a couple excepts thinking there might be others interested. For clarification I typed the beginning of the first page of the booklet that tells how the symposium was conducted. For those who didn't catch it, this was a NOBEL symposium, as in the NOBEL Peace Prize.

Quote
Radiocarbon variations and absolute chronology
The programme of the Twelfth Nobel symposium included, besides the normal lectures, six discussions and one excursion devoted to special problems treated during the symposium. One session was public and the audience was free to raise questions or contribute to the discussion after the three introductory lectures. All the lectures had been distributed in advance to the participants and hence the symposium sessions could, to a large extent, be devoted to discussions.
The lectures and the discussions were recorded. Since the discussions were often long and covered subjects not treated in the papers, they have been condensed and in a few cases they have been only summarized as editorial remarks.

Quote
Abstract
The chronology of the Pharaonic civilization has been regarded as particularly well established and has therefore been used as a chronological basis, both for other cultures connected with Pharaonic Egypt and for the C14 method of dating.

Quote
C14 dating and Egyptian chronology by T. Save-Soderbergh and I.U. Olsson

INTRODUCTION

C14 dating was being discussed at a symposium on the prehistory of the Nile Valley. A famous American colleague, Professor Brew, briefly summarized a common attitude among archaeologists towards it, as follows:
"If a C14 date supports our theories, we put it in the main text. If it does not entirely contradict them, we put it in a foot-note. And if it is completely 'out of date', we just drop it"
Few archaeologists who have concerned themselves with absolute chronology are innocent of having sometimes applied this method, and many are still hesitant to accept C14 dates without reservations.
For this and many other reasons, it is of great importance to study the C14 variations and to work out an accurate correction scale by all the available checking methods.

......My task is to speak about the possibilities of using Egyptian chronology as a check on the C14 dates, and I shall therefore restrict myself to Pharaonic times.

Quote

C14 dating has been applied to Egyptian material for two reasons--to check the exactitude of the method with the aid of the absolute dates of Egyptian history, and to attempt to solve some uncertain points in Egyptian chronology.

I take this to mean that Egyptology's already established "absolute dates" are used to verify the tests. And that an "accurate correction scale" is needed to bring C14 dates in line with Egyptology's dates. How can they do this?!! How can 'historic', which has absolutely no calendar dates, be used to confirm a science test?!! It's absurd. The ancient Greeks had a calendar, although still not completely understood, and the Romans had one, so they can determine that Nero lived at such and such time. But the AE had no calendar.

Quote

Since these documents are all incomplete, we have to reconstruct the list of kings with the aid of other monuments and data, both contemporary and of much later date, such as Manetho's Egyptian history, compiled in the third century B.C. on the basis of old sources but unfortunately known to us only through still later excerpts.

Manetho is the backbone of Egyptian chronology, it always was.

Quote

It would have been easy to obtain excellent and reliably dated samples from the funerary ship of King Cheops, whose death can be dated to c. 2556 (maximum) and c. 2530 B.C. (minimum). We know that his ship was deposited near the pyramid by his successor Djedefre. Among other finds there were large quantities of decayed ropes in the shaft, which would have been excellent for C14 dating, thus avoiding the problems of large logs, inner growth rings, etc.
Instead three pieces of three different species of wood were used for one date. This sample should be reliable, the historical date is certain within rather narrow margins, and the find was safely sealed. But the C14 dating differs widely from the general trend of the period in question.

Really? Could the Egyptologists be wrong?

He who knows all the answers has not been asked all the questions - Confucius

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Orthos Hypocrisy 2070 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 368 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:36
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 382 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 365 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 359 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 330 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 281 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 365 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 325 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 324 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 408 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 378 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 308 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:23
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 289 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 376 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 349 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:39
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 306 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 320 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 282 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 311 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 361 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 372 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 317 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 304 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 333 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:10
And therein lies the end to the conversation. 299 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:19
Pz runs home to maat 342 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 355 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 03:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 326 Vladislaw 19-Mar-02 23:35
One Overlooked Consideration... 344 ARTiFact 20-Mar-02 00:57
Re: One Overlooked Consideration... 403 Vladislaw 20-Mar-02 14:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 334 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 03:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 310 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:36
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 286 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 318 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 341 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 303 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 342 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 299 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:28
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 306 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:29
Give us paint testing 300 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:33
Re: Give us paint testing 337 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:35
Re: Give us paint testing 331 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:45
Re: Give us paint testing 299 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:47
Re: Give us paint testing 299 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:54
Re: Give us paint testing 353 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 23:10
Re: Give us paint testing 299 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 19:58
Re: Give us paint testing 361 Harry 22-Mar-02 00:36
Re: Give us paint testing 279 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 317 Frank D 21-Mar-02 10:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 426 Martin Stower 21-Mar-02 16:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 380 Frank D 22-Mar-02 01:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 307 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 355 Frank D 22-Mar-02 10:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 434 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 04:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 478 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 10:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 344 Warwick 19-Mar-17 17:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 462 Audrey 19-Mar-17 17:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 428 Warwick 19-Mar-17 17:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 365 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 454 Warwick 19-Mar-17 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 435 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 314 Warwick 19-Mar-17 19:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 364 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 437 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 396 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 17:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 456 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 331 Warwick 19-Mar-17 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 430 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 396 Audrey 19-Mar-17 19:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 452 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 409 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 358 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 419 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 279 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 21:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 398 Audrey 19-Mar-17 21:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 361 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 445 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 315 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 331 Audrey 20-Mar-17 01:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 431 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:36
kind request 469 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 01:48
Re: kind request 436 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 02:26
Re: kind request 398 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 02:42
Re: kind request 343 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 02:58
Re: kind request 399 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 03:16
Re: kind request 370 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:38
Re: kind request 359 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 10:39
Re: kind request 335 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 03:38
Re: kind request 323 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:43
Re: kind request 292 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 04:12
Re: kind request 333 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 06:22
Effects of contamination on RCD 372 Merrell 20-Mar-17 09:29
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 424 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 13:17
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 331 Merrell 20-Mar-17 13:57
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 308 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 14:15
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 315 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 14:46
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 341 Merrell 20-Mar-17 15:36
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 335 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 15:54
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 300 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 17:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 227 Warwick 20-Mar-17 17:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 291 Merrell 20-Mar-17 17:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 399 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 18:18
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 283 Warwick 20-Mar-17 19:10
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 350 Merrell 20-Mar-17 20:26
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 389 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 20:51
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 382 Audrey 21-Mar-17 02:16
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 260 Warwick 21-Mar-17 02:54
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 310 Audrey 21-Mar-17 03:23
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 283 cladking 21-Mar-17 02:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 384 Warwick 21-Mar-17 03:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 290 cladking 21-Mar-17 03:57
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 253 Warwick 21-Mar-17 04:18
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 352 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 10:35
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 295 cladking 21-Mar-17 22:15
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 337 Audrey 22-Mar-17 00:13
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 318 cladking 22-Mar-17 00:52
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 353 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 00:59
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 295 Audrey 22-Mar-17 03:14
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 378 Jon Ellison 22-Mar-17 12:09
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 427 Origyptian 22-Mar-17 13:48
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 434 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 00:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 343 cladking 22-Mar-17 01:09
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 548 Thunderbird 21-Mar-17 03:23
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 318 Warwick 21-Mar-17 03:32
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 427 Origyptian 21-Mar-17 03:45
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 292 Corpuscles 21-Mar-17 04:00
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 330 Warwick 21-Mar-17 04:22
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 348 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 09:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 346 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 09:47
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 408 Audrey 22-Mar-17 00:08
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 330 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 01:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 304 Audrey 23-Mar-17 04:14
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 307 Martin Stower 23-Mar-17 12:03
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 342 Audrey 24-Mar-17 00:35
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 299 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 00:55
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 341 Audrey 24-Mar-17 01:02
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 298 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 01:07
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 393 Audrey 24-Mar-17 04:42
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 348 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 14:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 342 Origyptian 24-Mar-17 14:43
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 483 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 15:24
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 620 Audrey 25-Mar-17 02:36
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 319 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 13:49
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 305 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 13:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 312 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 14:23
Re: kind request 325 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 02:53
Re: kind request 319 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:19
Re: kind request 391 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 02:50
Re: kind request 466 Audrey 20-Mar-17 03:09
Re: kind request 252 Warwick 20-Mar-17 13:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 382 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 20:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 298 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 278 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 21:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 382 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 22:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 451 Audrey 19-Mar-17 23:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 318 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 261 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 253 Warwick 20-Mar-17 14:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 423 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 17:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 310 Audrey 19-Mar-17 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 291 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 300 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:34
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 294 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 21:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 407 Audrey 19-Mar-17 21:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 356 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 22:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 303 Audrey 19-Mar-17 23:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 277 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 393 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 260 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 376 Audrey 20-Mar-17 01:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 275 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 367 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 21:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 382 Audrey 19-Mar-17 22:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 139 Warwick 18-Jun-17 18:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 204 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 13:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 260 Merrell 19-Jun-17 13:23
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 250 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 13:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 145 Warwick 19-Jun-17 16:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 275 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 19:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 141 Warwick 20-Jun-17 17:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 246 Origyptian 20-Jun-17 18:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 151 Warwick 20-Jun-17 19:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 456 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:34
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 376 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 00:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 264 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 274 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 352 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:28
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 492 Warwick 20-Mar-17 14:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 396 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 19:47
The Medium 270 Warwick 19-Mar-17 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 249 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 283 Frank D 22-Mar-02 01:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 264 Harry 22-Mar-02 01:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 159 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 16:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 197 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 192 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 166 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 282 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 629 gulsbo 20-Jun-17 20:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 190 Tommi Huhtamaki 19-Mar-02 17:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 223 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 172 Tommi Huhtamaki 19-Mar-02 17:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 207 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 177 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 188 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 201 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 169 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 177 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 158 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:33
Here, I highly doubt you'll bother... 333 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 12:31
Totally unconvincing 150 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:38
Re: Totally unconvincing 174 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:53
Re: Totally unconvincing 172 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:15
Re: Totally unconvincing 175 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:18
Re: Totally unconvincing 197 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:29
Re: Totally unconvincing 191 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 169 HectorChico 21-Mar-02 13:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 172 Harry 21-Mar-02 14:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 175 HectorChico 21-Mar-02 14:14
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 160 Mercury Rapids 19-Mar-02 19:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 181 Milo 19-Mar-02 17:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 164 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 175 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:49
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 166 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:55
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 167 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 170 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 167 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 181 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 178 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:39
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 178 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 172 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 168 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 168 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:55
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 169 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:57
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 166 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 165 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 180 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:03
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 195 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 169 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:14
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 175 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 165 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 168 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:54
Ortho admits defeat 148 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:56
Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 193 Pete Vanderzwet 19-Mar-02 20:00
Re: Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 166 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:05
Re: Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 164 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 180 Pete Vanderzwet 19-Mar-02 19:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 170 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 170 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 01:57
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 180 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 176 Milo 19-Mar-02 17:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 162 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 161 Milo 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 151 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 176 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 178 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 170 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 191 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:40
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 181 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 176 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 176 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 162 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 181 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 154 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 149 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 186 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 161 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 181 lobo-hotei 19-Mar-02 19:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 178 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 143 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:49
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 179 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 149 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 168 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 169 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:34
KHUFU -- HWFW -- "Holy Ancient One" 209 ARTiFact 19-Mar-02 21:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 199 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 02:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 169 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 158 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 176 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 160 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 151 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:48
Ian's Hypocrisy 203 Harry 21-Mar-02 12:38
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 146 Martin Stower 21-Mar-02 16:49
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 170 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:08
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 182 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:19
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 179 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 16:36
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 169 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:17
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 177 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 177 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 184 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 115 Harry 22-Mar-02 00:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 145 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 176 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:05
Ian's Hypocrisy Revisited 173 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:36
Ian admits his intellectual bankruptcy. 192 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:58
Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 195 R Avry Wilson 20-Mar-02 06:22
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 149 opti-mystic 20-Mar-02 07:59
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 148 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:46
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 176 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:42
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 202 Vladislaw 20-Mar-02 14:46
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 187 Harry 20-Mar-02 14:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 186 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 19:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 186 Harry 20-Mar-02 20:03
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 173 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 189 Harry 20-Mar-02 20:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 192 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 20:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 160 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 20:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 163 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 21:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 179 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 21:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 193 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 21:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 201 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 21:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 186 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 21:27
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 200 Paul Mallon 21-Mar-02 09:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 209 Harry 21-Mar-02 12:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 166 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 20:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 299 Warwick 18-Jun-17 18:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 397 Merrell 18-Jun-17 21:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 272 Warwick 19-Jun-17 05:48


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