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Origyptian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taylor ('87) quoted Säve-Söderbergh's 1969
> symposium presentation which included Brew's
> statement, and this was properly cited by Audrey
> as apparently the first time (the '69
> presentation) that Säve-Söderbergh formally
> presented Brew's statement. Brew's statement
> apparently was repeated by Säve-Söderbergh the
> following year in a paper published in the 1970
> proceedings volume. If Holloway claims
> Säve-Söderbergh's 1970 paper is the first
> mention of Brew's statement, Holloway may be
> mistaken since Taylor claims that
> Säve-Söderbergh first presented the quote the
> previous year in a live presentation at a
> different symposium.
>
> While Brew made the statement before
> Säve-Söderbergh's '69 presentation, such
> practice seemed to have been active at least to
> 1995 (after Taylor's '87 citation), based on the
> details of methodology stated in Bonani, et al.
> where half the data samples were not included in
> the study but rather were put in a "reserve" for
> no stated reason, a descrepancy between the
> retrospective date of the '84 Cayce Foundation
> study and the then-contemporaneous '95 samples was
> not adequately addressed by the authors, the
> discrepancy between the RCD data and historical
> data was not properly explained by the authors, no
> rationale was given for the method used to
> determine "outliers", and no explanation was given
> to assure that modern carbon was removed from the
> surface samples. When the RCD data didn't quite
> fit the historical data, the authors gravitated
> toward blaming the method without offering any
> consideration of whether the historic timeline
> might require adjustment.
>
> It may have been an old practice, but it wasn't
> extinct by the time Taylor cited it.

The proceedings of this symposium are actually quite interesting. I think you in particular would enjoy reading it for it gives several C14 test results and there is discussion of them. I would very much like to hear your take on them, if you have the time and inclination to read it. It's not very long and is available on archive.org but you have to register (no cost involved) and virtually check out the booklet which is why I can't post a link to it. At archive.org search for "Radiocarbon variations and absolute chronology", Soderbergh's section begins on page 35.

Cut and paste isn't an option so I took the time to type a couple excepts thinking there might be others interested. For clarification I typed the beginning of the first page of the booklet that tells how the symposium was conducted. For those who didn't catch it, this was a NOBEL symposium, as in the NOBEL Peace Prize.

Quote
Radiocarbon variations and absolute chronology
The programme of the Twelfth Nobel symposium included, besides the normal lectures, six discussions and one excursion devoted to special problems treated during the symposium. One session was public and the audience was free to raise questions or contribute to the discussion after the three introductory lectures. All the lectures had been distributed in advance to the participants and hence the symposium sessions could, to a large extent, be devoted to discussions.
The lectures and the discussions were recorded. Since the discussions were often long and covered subjects not treated in the papers, they have been condensed and in a few cases they have been only summarized as editorial remarks.

Quote
Abstract
The chronology of the Pharaonic civilization has been regarded as particularly well established and has therefore been used as a chronological basis, both for other cultures connected with Pharaonic Egypt and for the C14 method of dating.

Quote
C14 dating and Egyptian chronology by T. Save-Soderbergh and I.U. Olsson

INTRODUCTION

C14 dating was being discussed at a symposium on the prehistory of the Nile Valley. A famous American colleague, Professor Brew, briefly summarized a common attitude among archaeologists towards it, as follows:
"If a C14 date supports our theories, we put it in the main text. If it does not entirely contradict them, we put it in a foot-note. And if it is completely 'out of date', we just drop it"
Few archaeologists who have concerned themselves with absolute chronology are innocent of having sometimes applied this method, and many are still hesitant to accept C14 dates without reservations.
For this and many other reasons, it is of great importance to study the C14 variations and to work out an accurate correction scale by all the available checking methods.

......My task is to speak about the possibilities of using Egyptian chronology as a check on the C14 dates, and I shall therefore restrict myself to Pharaonic times.

Quote

C14 dating has been applied to Egyptian material for two reasons--to check the exactitude of the method with the aid of the absolute dates of Egyptian history, and to attempt to solve some uncertain points in Egyptian chronology.

I take this to mean that Egyptology's already established "absolute dates" are used to verify the tests. And that an "accurate correction scale" is needed to bring C14 dates in line with Egyptology's dates. How can they do this?!! How can 'historic', which has absolutely no calendar dates, be used to confirm a science test?!! It's absurd. The ancient Greeks had a calendar, although still not completely understood, and the Romans had one, so they can determine that Nero lived at such and such time. But the AE had no calendar.

Quote

Since these documents are all incomplete, we have to reconstruct the list of kings with the aid of other monuments and data, both contemporary and of much later date, such as Manetho's Egyptian history, compiled in the third century B.C. on the basis of old sources but unfortunately known to us only through still later excerpts.

Manetho is the backbone of Egyptian chronology, it always was.

Quote

It would have been easy to obtain excellent and reliably dated samples from the funerary ship of King Cheops, whose death can be dated to c. 2556 (maximum) and c. 2530 B.C. (minimum). We know that his ship was deposited near the pyramid by his successor Djedefre. Among other finds there were large quantities of decayed ropes in the shaft, which would have been excellent for C14 dating, thus avoiding the problems of large logs, inner growth rings, etc.
Instead three pieces of three different species of wood were used for one date. This sample should be reliable, the historical date is certain within rather narrow margins, and the find was safely sealed. But the C14 dating differs widely from the general trend of the period in question.

Really? Could the Egyptologists be wrong?

He who knows all the answers has not been asked all the questions - Confucius

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Orthos Hypocrisy 2033 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 356 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:36
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 367 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 356 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 342 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 321 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 265 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 347 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 311 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 307 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 391 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 371 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 294 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:23
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 278 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 362 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 338 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:39
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 291 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 309 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 267 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 300 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 345 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 356 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 305 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 294 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 320 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:10
And therein lies the end to the conversation. 286 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:19
Pz runs home to maat 331 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 344 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 03:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 311 Vladislaw 19-Mar-02 23:35
One Overlooked Consideration... 330 ARTiFact 20-Mar-02 00:57
Re: One Overlooked Consideration... 389 Vladislaw 20-Mar-02 14:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 323 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 03:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 296 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:36
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 278 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 299 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 333 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 284 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 312 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 284 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:28
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 295 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:29
Give us paint testing 286 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:33
Re: Give us paint testing 328 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:35
Re: Give us paint testing 315 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:45
Re: Give us paint testing 286 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:47
Re: Give us paint testing 282 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:54
Re: Give us paint testing 342 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 23:10
Re: Give us paint testing 284 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 19:58
Re: Give us paint testing 350 Harry 22-Mar-02 00:36
Re: Give us paint testing 268 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 307 Frank D 21-Mar-02 10:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 409 Martin Stower 21-Mar-02 16:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 369 Frank D 22-Mar-02 01:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 298 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 338 Frank D 22-Mar-02 10:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 422 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 04:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 467 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 10:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 325 Warwick 19-Mar-17 17:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 447 Audrey 19-Mar-17 17:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 417 Warwick 19-Mar-17 17:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 346 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 442 Warwick 19-Mar-17 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 417 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 302 Warwick 19-Mar-17 19:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 342 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 424 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 386 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 17:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 440 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 320 Warwick 19-Mar-17 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 419 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 380 Audrey 19-Mar-17 19:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 440 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 394 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 345 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 400 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 268 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 21:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 380 Audrey 19-Mar-17 21:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 351 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 425 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 303 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 313 Audrey 20-Mar-17 01:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 419 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:36
kind request 459 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 01:48
Re: kind request 424 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 02:26
Re: kind request 386 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 02:42
Re: kind request 332 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 02:58
Re: kind request 386 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 03:16
Re: kind request 357 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:38
Re: kind request 344 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 10:39
Re: kind request 324 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 03:38
Re: kind request 311 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:43
Re: kind request 282 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 04:12
Re: kind request 321 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 06:22
Effects of contamination on RCD 363 Merrell 20-Mar-17 09:29
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 414 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 13:17
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 320 Merrell 20-Mar-17 13:57
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 298 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 14:15
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 305 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 14:46
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 331 Merrell 20-Mar-17 15:36
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 325 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 15:54
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 289 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 17:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 215 Warwick 20-Mar-17 17:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 281 Merrell 20-Mar-17 17:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 385 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 18:18
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 272 Warwick 20-Mar-17 19:10
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 339 Merrell 20-Mar-17 20:26
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 378 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 20:51
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 367 Audrey 21-Mar-17 02:16
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 251 Warwick 21-Mar-17 02:54
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 295 Audrey 21-Mar-17 03:23
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 269 cladking 21-Mar-17 02:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 375 Warwick 21-Mar-17 03:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 277 cladking 21-Mar-17 03:57
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 242 Warwick 21-Mar-17 04:18
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 342 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 10:35
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 284 cladking 21-Mar-17 22:15
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 323 Audrey 22-Mar-17 00:13
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 306 cladking 22-Mar-17 00:52
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 343 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 00:59
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 276 Audrey 22-Mar-17 03:14
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 367 Jon Ellison 22-Mar-17 12:09
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 415 Origyptian 22-Mar-17 13:48
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 421 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 00:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 332 cladking 22-Mar-17 01:09
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 530 Thunderbird 21-Mar-17 03:23
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 307 Warwick 21-Mar-17 03:32
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 417 Origyptian 21-Mar-17 03:45
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 282 Corpuscles 21-Mar-17 04:00
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 318 Warwick 21-Mar-17 04:22
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 335 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 09:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 334 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 09:47
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 389 Audrey 22-Mar-17 00:08
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 320 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 01:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 289 Audrey 23-Mar-17 04:14
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 297 Martin Stower 23-Mar-17 12:03
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 328 Audrey 24-Mar-17 00:35
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 286 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 00:55
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 323 Audrey 24-Mar-17 01:02
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 282 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 01:07
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 374 Audrey 24-Mar-17 04:42
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 338 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 14:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 332 Origyptian 24-Mar-17 14:43
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 469 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 15:24
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 604 Audrey 25-Mar-17 02:36
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 309 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 13:49
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 293 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 13:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 299 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 14:23
Re: kind request 314 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 02:53
Re: kind request 308 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:19
Re: kind request 380 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 02:50
Re: kind request 448 Audrey 20-Mar-17 03:09
Re: kind request 243 Warwick 20-Mar-17 13:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 363 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 20:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 287 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 267 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 21:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 372 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 22:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 433 Audrey 19-Mar-17 23:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 306 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 249 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 244 Warwick 20-Mar-17 14:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 409 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 17:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 296 Audrey 19-Mar-17 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 281 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 282 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:34
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 285 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 21:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 393 Audrey 19-Mar-17 21:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 345 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 22:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 284 Audrey 19-Mar-17 23:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 265 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 378 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 251 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 360 Audrey 20-Mar-17 01:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 264 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 356 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 21:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 365 Audrey 19-Mar-17 22:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 129 Warwick 18-Jun-17 18:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 194 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 13:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 251 Merrell 19-Jun-17 13:23
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 241 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 13:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 135 Warwick 19-Jun-17 16:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 264 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 19:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 131 Warwick 20-Jun-17 17:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 235 Origyptian 20-Jun-17 18:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 141 Warwick 20-Jun-17 19:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 439 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:34
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 363 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 00:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 250 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 252 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 339 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:28
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 476 Warwick 20-Mar-17 14:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 385 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 19:47
The Medium 259 Warwick 19-Mar-17 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 230 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 275 Frank D 22-Mar-02 01:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 251 Harry 22-Mar-02 01:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 147 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 16:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 183 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 180 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 157 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 270 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 614 gulsbo 20-Jun-17 20:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 176 Tommi Huhtamaki 19-Mar-02 17:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 211 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 154 Tommi Huhtamaki 19-Mar-02 17:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 191 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 167 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 170 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 190 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 159 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 165 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 139 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:33
Here, I highly doubt you'll bother... 314 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 12:31
Totally unconvincing 140 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:38
Re: Totally unconvincing 164 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:53
Re: Totally unconvincing 157 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:15
Re: Totally unconvincing 161 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:18
Re: Totally unconvincing 180 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:29
Re: Totally unconvincing 181 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 160 HectorChico 21-Mar-02 13:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 157 Harry 21-Mar-02 14:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 159 HectorChico 21-Mar-02 14:14
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 150 Mercury Rapids 19-Mar-02 19:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 162 Milo 19-Mar-02 17:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 152 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 161 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:49
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 156 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:55
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 154 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 160 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 152 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 171 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 163 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:39
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 168 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 163 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 152 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 158 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:55
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 160 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:57
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 155 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 153 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 167 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:03
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 183 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 160 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:14
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 165 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 152 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 159 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:54
Ortho admits defeat 138 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:56
Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 175 Pete Vanderzwet 19-Mar-02 20:00
Re: Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 151 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:05
Re: Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 154 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 163 Pete Vanderzwet 19-Mar-02 19:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 160 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 158 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 01:57
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 164 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 167 Milo 19-Mar-02 17:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 151 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 144 Milo 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 138 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 161 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 169 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 148 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 177 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:40
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 171 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 164 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 165 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 148 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 168 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 144 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 140 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 176 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 150 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 164 lobo-hotei 19-Mar-02 19:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 164 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 132 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:49
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 170 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 139 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 153 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 153 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:34
KHUFU -- HWFW -- "Holy Ancient One" 193 ARTiFact 19-Mar-02 21:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 184 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 02:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 160 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 150 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 161 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 149 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 139 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:48
Ian's Hypocrisy 186 Harry 21-Mar-02 12:38
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 130 Martin Stower 21-Mar-02 16:49
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 154 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:08
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 167 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:19
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 166 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 16:36
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 158 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:17
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 162 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 167 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 166 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 105 Harry 22-Mar-02 00:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 135 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 161 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:05
Ian's Hypocrisy Revisited 163 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:36
Ian admits his intellectual bankruptcy. 181 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:58
Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 181 R Avry Wilson 20-Mar-02 06:22
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 138 opti-mystic 20-Mar-02 07:59
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 138 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:46
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 164 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:42
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 188 Vladislaw 20-Mar-02 14:46
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 176 Harry 20-Mar-02 14:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 170 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 19:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 171 Harry 20-Mar-02 20:03
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 162 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 175 Harry 20-Mar-02 20:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 177 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 20:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 142 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 20:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 147 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 21:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 160 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 21:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 177 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 21:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 188 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 21:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 169 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 21:27
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 189 Paul Mallon 21-Mar-02 09:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 189 Harry 21-Mar-02 12:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 149 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 20:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 288 Warwick 18-Jun-17 18:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 387 Merrell 18-Jun-17 21:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 262 Warwick 19-Jun-17 05:48


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