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Origyptian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taylor ('87) quoted Säve-Söderbergh's 1969
> symposium presentation which included Brew's
> statement, and this was properly cited by Audrey
> as apparently the first time (the '69
> presentation) that Säve-Söderbergh formally
> presented Brew's statement. Brew's statement
> apparently was repeated by Säve-Söderbergh the
> following year in a paper published in the 1970
> proceedings volume. If Holloway claims
> Säve-Söderbergh's 1970 paper is the first
> mention of Brew's statement, Holloway may be
> mistaken since Taylor claims that
> Säve-Söderbergh first presented the quote the
> previous year in a live presentation at a
> different symposium.
>
> While Brew made the statement before
> Säve-Söderbergh's '69 presentation, such
> practice seemed to have been active at least to
> 1995 (after Taylor's '87 citation), based on the
> details of methodology stated in Bonani, et al.
> where half the data samples were not included in
> the study but rather were put in a "reserve" for
> no stated reason, a descrepancy between the
> retrospective date of the '84 Cayce Foundation
> study and the then-contemporaneous '95 samples was
> not adequately addressed by the authors, the
> discrepancy between the RCD data and historical
> data was not properly explained by the authors, no
> rationale was given for the method used to
> determine "outliers", and no explanation was given
> to assure that modern carbon was removed from the
> surface samples. When the RCD data didn't quite
> fit the historical data, the authors gravitated
> toward blaming the method without offering any
> consideration of whether the historic timeline
> might require adjustment.
>
> It may have been an old practice, but it wasn't
> extinct by the time Taylor cited it.

The proceedings of this symposium are actually quite interesting. I think you in particular would enjoy reading it for it gives several C14 test results and there is discussion of them. I would very much like to hear your take on them, if you have the time and inclination to read it. It's not very long and is available on archive.org but you have to register (no cost involved) and virtually check out the booklet which is why I can't post a link to it. At archive.org search for "Radiocarbon variations and absolute chronology", Soderbergh's section begins on page 35.

Cut and paste isn't an option so I took the time to type a couple excepts thinking there might be others interested. For clarification I typed the beginning of the first page of the booklet that tells how the symposium was conducted. For those who didn't catch it, this was a NOBEL symposium, as in the NOBEL Peace Prize.

Quote
Radiocarbon variations and absolute chronology
The programme of the Twelfth Nobel symposium included, besides the normal lectures, six discussions and one excursion devoted to special problems treated during the symposium. One session was public and the audience was free to raise questions or contribute to the discussion after the three introductory lectures. All the lectures had been distributed in advance to the participants and hence the symposium sessions could, to a large extent, be devoted to discussions.
The lectures and the discussions were recorded. Since the discussions were often long and covered subjects not treated in the papers, they have been condensed and in a few cases they have been only summarized as editorial remarks.

Quote
Abstract
The chronology of the Pharaonic civilization has been regarded as particularly well established and has therefore been used as a chronological basis, both for other cultures connected with Pharaonic Egypt and for the C14 method of dating.

Quote
C14 dating and Egyptian chronology by T. Save-Soderbergh and I.U. Olsson

INTRODUCTION

C14 dating was being discussed at a symposium on the prehistory of the Nile Valley. A famous American colleague, Professor Brew, briefly summarized a common attitude among archaeologists towards it, as follows:
"If a C14 date supports our theories, we put it in the main text. If it does not entirely contradict them, we put it in a foot-note. And if it is completely 'out of date', we just drop it"
Few archaeologists who have concerned themselves with absolute chronology are innocent of having sometimes applied this method, and many are still hesitant to accept C14 dates without reservations.
For this and many other reasons, it is of great importance to study the C14 variations and to work out an accurate correction scale by all the available checking methods.

......My task is to speak about the possibilities of using Egyptian chronology as a check on the C14 dates, and I shall therefore restrict myself to Pharaonic times.

Quote

C14 dating has been applied to Egyptian material for two reasons--to check the exactitude of the method with the aid of the absolute dates of Egyptian history, and to attempt to solve some uncertain points in Egyptian chronology.

I take this to mean that Egyptology's already established "absolute dates" are used to verify the tests. And that an "accurate correction scale" is needed to bring C14 dates in line with Egyptology's dates. How can they do this?!! How can 'historic', which has absolutely no calendar dates, be used to confirm a science test?!! It's absurd. The ancient Greeks had a calendar, although still not completely understood, and the Romans had one, so they can determine that Nero lived at such and such time. But the AE had no calendar.

Quote

Since these documents are all incomplete, we have to reconstruct the list of kings with the aid of other monuments and data, both contemporary and of much later date, such as Manetho's Egyptian history, compiled in the third century B.C. on the basis of old sources but unfortunately known to us only through still later excerpts.

Manetho is the backbone of Egyptian chronology, it always was.

Quote

It would have been easy to obtain excellent and reliably dated samples from the funerary ship of King Cheops, whose death can be dated to c. 2556 (maximum) and c. 2530 B.C. (minimum). We know that his ship was deposited near the pyramid by his successor Djedefre. Among other finds there were large quantities of decayed ropes in the shaft, which would have been excellent for C14 dating, thus avoiding the problems of large logs, inner growth rings, etc.
Instead three pieces of three different species of wood were used for one date. This sample should be reliable, the historical date is certain within rather narrow margins, and the find was safely sealed. But the C14 dating differs widely from the general trend of the period in question.

Really? Could the Egyptologists be wrong?

He who knows all the answers has not been asked all the questions - Confucius

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Orthos Hypocrisy 1987 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 337 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:36
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 349 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 341 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 326 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 304 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 248 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 326 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 293 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 295 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 368 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 353 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 275 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:23
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 259 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 344 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 327 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:39
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 274 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 291 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 247 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 278 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 327 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 343 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 283 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 276 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 304 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:10
And therein lies the end to the conversation. 268 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:19
Pz runs home to maat 312 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 328 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 03:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 294 Vladislaw 19-Mar-02 23:35
One Overlooked Consideration... 316 ARTiFact 20-Mar-02 00:57
Re: One Overlooked Consideration... 372 Vladislaw 20-Mar-02 14:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 301 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 03:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 277 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:36
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 264 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 282 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 319 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 267 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 294 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 268 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:28
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 273 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:29
Give us paint testing 273 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:33
Re: Give us paint testing 311 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:35
Re: Give us paint testing 297 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:45
Re: Give us paint testing 268 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:47
Re: Give us paint testing 269 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:54
Re: Give us paint testing 323 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 23:10
Re: Give us paint testing 266 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 19:58
Re: Give us paint testing 335 Harry 22-Mar-02 00:36
Re: Give us paint testing 256 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 289 Frank D 21-Mar-02 10:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 393 Martin Stower 21-Mar-02 16:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 353 Frank D 22-Mar-02 01:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 279 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 320 Frank D 22-Mar-02 10:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 403 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 04:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 449 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 10:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 310 Warwick 19-Mar-17 17:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 428 Audrey 19-Mar-17 17:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 399 Warwick 19-Mar-17 17:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 329 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 425 Warwick 19-Mar-17 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 404 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 291 Warwick 19-Mar-17 19:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 322 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 402 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 368 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 17:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 422 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 303 Warwick 19-Mar-17 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 403 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 359 Audrey 19-Mar-17 19:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 416 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 370 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 324 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 382 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 254 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 21:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 362 Audrey 19-Mar-17 21:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 337 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 406 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 285 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 295 Audrey 20-Mar-17 01:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 400 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:36
kind request 440 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 01:48
Re: kind request 409 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 02:26
Re: kind request 372 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 02:42
Re: kind request 313 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 02:58
Re: kind request 366 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 03:16
Re: kind request 336 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:38
Re: kind request 327 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 10:39
Re: kind request 304 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 03:38
Re: kind request 293 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:43
Re: kind request 267 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 04:12
Re: kind request 302 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 06:22
Effects of contamination on RCD 343 Merrell 20-Mar-17 09:29
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 393 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 13:17
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 304 Merrell 20-Mar-17 13:57
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 282 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 14:15
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 284 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 14:46
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 315 Merrell 20-Mar-17 15:36
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 309 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 15:54
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 272 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 17:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 202 Warwick 20-Mar-17 17:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 261 Merrell 20-Mar-17 17:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 374 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 18:18
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 259 Warwick 20-Mar-17 19:10
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 326 Merrell 20-Mar-17 20:26
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 358 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 20:51
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 358 Audrey 21-Mar-17 02:16
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 241 Warwick 21-Mar-17 02:54
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 282 Audrey 21-Mar-17 03:23
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 257 cladking 21-Mar-17 02:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 361 Warwick 21-Mar-17 03:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 257 cladking 21-Mar-17 03:57
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 229 Warwick 21-Mar-17 04:18
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 329 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 10:35
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 260 cladking 21-Mar-17 22:15
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 307 Audrey 22-Mar-17 00:13
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 292 cladking 22-Mar-17 00:52
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 326 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 00:59
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 262 Audrey 22-Mar-17 03:14
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 348 Jon Ellison 22-Mar-17 12:09
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 395 Origyptian 22-Mar-17 13:48
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 400 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 00:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 317 cladking 22-Mar-17 01:09
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 511 Thunderbird 21-Mar-17 03:23
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 289 Warwick 21-Mar-17 03:32
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 385 Origyptian 21-Mar-17 03:45
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 264 Corpuscles 21-Mar-17 04:00
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 297 Warwick 21-Mar-17 04:22
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 317 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 09:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 315 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 09:47
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 369 Audrey 22-Mar-17 00:08
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 299 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 01:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 270 Audrey 23-Mar-17 04:14
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 284 Martin Stower 23-Mar-17 12:03
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 309 Audrey 24-Mar-17 00:35
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 265 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 00:55
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 304 Audrey 24-Mar-17 01:02
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 262 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 01:07
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 356 Audrey 24-Mar-17 04:42
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 322 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 14:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 308 Origyptian 24-Mar-17 14:43
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 445 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 15:24
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 589 Audrey 25-Mar-17 02:36
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 291 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 13:49
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 272 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 13:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 284 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 14:23
Re: kind request 289 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 02:53
Re: kind request 287 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:19
Re: kind request 361 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 02:50
Re: kind request 429 Audrey 20-Mar-17 03:09
Re: kind request 226 Warwick 20-Mar-17 13:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 343 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 20:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 269 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 250 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 21:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 357 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 22:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 415 Audrey 19-Mar-17 23:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 287 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 236 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 228 Warwick 20-Mar-17 14:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 392 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 17:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 282 Audrey 19-Mar-17 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 264 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 264 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:34
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 269 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 21:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 375 Audrey 19-Mar-17 21:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 325 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 22:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 263 Audrey 19-Mar-17 23:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 248 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 360 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 234 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 333 Audrey 20-Mar-17 01:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 249 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 333 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 21:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 348 Audrey 19-Mar-17 22:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 111 Warwick 18-Jun-17 18:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 181 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 13:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 232 Merrell 19-Jun-17 13:23
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 228 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 13:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 118 Warwick 19-Jun-17 16:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 245 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 19:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 107 Warwick 20-Jun-17 17:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 211 Origyptian 20-Jun-17 18:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 121 Warwick 20-Jun-17 19:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 419 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:34
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 343 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 00:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 232 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 238 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 320 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:28
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 457 Warwick 20-Mar-17 14:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 367 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 19:47
The Medium 240 Warwick 19-Mar-17 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 217 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 261 Frank D 22-Mar-02 01:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 234 Harry 22-Mar-02 01:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 129 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 16:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 168 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 162 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 143 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 249 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 597 gulsbo 20-Jun-17 20:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 157 Tommi Huhtamaki 19-Mar-02 17:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 194 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 135 Tommi Huhtamaki 19-Mar-02 17:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 173 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 152 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 154 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 168 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 146 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 143 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 118 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:33
Here, I highly doubt you'll bother... 299 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 12:31
Totally unconvincing 121 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:38
Re: Totally unconvincing 145 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:53
Re: Totally unconvincing 143 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:15
Re: Totally unconvincing 146 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:18
Re: Totally unconvincing 164 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:29
Re: Totally unconvincing 161 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 144 HectorChico 21-Mar-02 13:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 141 Harry 21-Mar-02 14:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 143 HectorChico 21-Mar-02 14:14
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 137 Mercury Rapids 19-Mar-02 19:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 146 Milo 19-Mar-02 17:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 140 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 142 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:49
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 137 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:55
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 134 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 145 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 136 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 151 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 145 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:39
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 148 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 146 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 137 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 145 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:55
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 143 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:57
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 138 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 137 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 154 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:03
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 169 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 137 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:14
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 146 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 135 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 141 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:54
Ortho admits defeat 122 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:56
Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 157 Pete Vanderzwet 19-Mar-02 20:00
Re: Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 134 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:05
Re: Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 137 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 150 Pete Vanderzwet 19-Mar-02 19:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 142 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 145 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 01:57
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 148 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 150 Milo 19-Mar-02 17:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 137 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 123 Milo 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 121 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 143 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 148 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 134 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 160 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:40
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 151 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 149 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 148 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 132 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 149 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 131 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 120 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 153 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 132 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 152 lobo-hotei 19-Mar-02 19:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 147 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 119 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:49
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 153 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 123 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 135 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 137 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:34
KHUFU -- HWFW -- "Holy Ancient One" 175 ARTiFact 19-Mar-02 21:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 165 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 02:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 144 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 136 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 139 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 129 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 120 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:48
Ian's Hypocrisy 169 Harry 21-Mar-02 12:38
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 115 Martin Stower 21-Mar-02 16:49
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 136 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:08
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 150 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:19
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 148 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 16:36
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 143 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:17
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 149 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 146 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 150 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 87 Harry 22-Mar-02 00:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 120 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 143 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:05
Ian's Hypocrisy Revisited 149 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:36
Ian admits his intellectual bankruptcy. 162 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:58
Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 161 R Avry Wilson 20-Mar-02 06:22
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 123 opti-mystic 20-Mar-02 07:59
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 119 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:46
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 144 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:42
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 164 Vladislaw 20-Mar-02 14:46
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 157 Harry 20-Mar-02 14:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 153 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 19:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 152 Harry 20-Mar-02 20:03
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 143 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 154 Harry 20-Mar-02 20:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 164 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 20:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 124 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 20:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 138 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 21:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 143 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 21:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 159 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 21:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 171 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 21:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 150 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 21:27
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 173 Paul Mallon 21-Mar-02 09:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 172 Harry 21-Mar-02 12:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 137 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 20:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 270 Warwick 18-Jun-17 18:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 369 Merrell 18-Jun-17 21:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 241 Warwick 19-Jun-17 05:48


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