Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Origyptian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taylor ('87) quoted Säve-Söderbergh's 1969
> symposium presentation which included Brew's
> statement, and this was properly cited by Audrey
> as apparently the first time (the '69
> presentation) that Säve-Söderbergh formally
> presented Brew's statement. Brew's statement
> apparently was repeated by Säve-Söderbergh the
> following year in a paper published in the 1970
> proceedings volume. If Holloway claims
> Säve-Söderbergh's 1970 paper is the first
> mention of Brew's statement, Holloway may be
> mistaken since Taylor claims that
> Säve-Söderbergh first presented the quote the
> previous year in a live presentation at a
> different symposium.
>
> While Brew made the statement before
> Säve-Söderbergh's '69 presentation, such
> practice seemed to have been active at least to
> 1995 (after Taylor's '87 citation), based on the
> details of methodology stated in Bonani, et al.
> where half the data samples were not included in
> the study but rather were put in a "reserve" for
> no stated reason, a descrepancy between the
> retrospective date of the '84 Cayce Foundation
> study and the then-contemporaneous '95 samples was
> not adequately addressed by the authors, the
> discrepancy between the RCD data and historical
> data was not properly explained by the authors, no
> rationale was given for the method used to
> determine "outliers", and no explanation was given
> to assure that modern carbon was removed from the
> surface samples. When the RCD data didn't quite
> fit the historical data, the authors gravitated
> toward blaming the method without offering any
> consideration of whether the historic timeline
> might require adjustment.
>
> It may have been an old practice, but it wasn't
> extinct by the time Taylor cited it.

The proceedings of this symposium are actually quite interesting. I think you in particular would enjoy reading it for it gives several C14 test results and there is discussion of them. I would very much like to hear your take on them, if you have the time and inclination to read it. It's not very long and is available on archive.org but you have to register (no cost involved) and virtually check out the booklet which is why I can't post a link to it. At archive.org search for "Radiocarbon variations and absolute chronology", Soderbergh's section begins on page 35.

Cut and paste isn't an option so I took the time to type a couple excepts thinking there might be others interested. For clarification I typed the beginning of the first page of the booklet that tells how the symposium was conducted. For those who didn't catch it, this was a NOBEL symposium, as in the NOBEL Peace Prize.

Quote
Radiocarbon variations and absolute chronology
The programme of the Twelfth Nobel symposium included, besides the normal lectures, six discussions and one excursion devoted to special problems treated during the symposium. One session was public and the audience was free to raise questions or contribute to the discussion after the three introductory lectures. All the lectures had been distributed in advance to the participants and hence the symposium sessions could, to a large extent, be devoted to discussions.
The lectures and the discussions were recorded. Since the discussions were often long and covered subjects not treated in the papers, they have been condensed and in a few cases they have been only summarized as editorial remarks.

Quote
Abstract
The chronology of the Pharaonic civilization has been regarded as particularly well established and has therefore been used as a chronological basis, both for other cultures connected with Pharaonic Egypt and for the C14 method of dating.

Quote
C14 dating and Egyptian chronology by T. Save-Soderbergh and I.U. Olsson

INTRODUCTION

C14 dating was being discussed at a symposium on the prehistory of the Nile Valley. A famous American colleague, Professor Brew, briefly summarized a common attitude among archaeologists towards it, as follows:
"If a C14 date supports our theories, we put it in the main text. If it does not entirely contradict them, we put it in a foot-note. And if it is completely 'out of date', we just drop it"
Few archaeologists who have concerned themselves with absolute chronology are innocent of having sometimes applied this method, and many are still hesitant to accept C14 dates without reservations.
For this and many other reasons, it is of great importance to study the C14 variations and to work out an accurate correction scale by all the available checking methods.

......My task is to speak about the possibilities of using Egyptian chronology as a check on the C14 dates, and I shall therefore restrict myself to Pharaonic times.

Quote

C14 dating has been applied to Egyptian material for two reasons--to check the exactitude of the method with the aid of the absolute dates of Egyptian history, and to attempt to solve some uncertain points in Egyptian chronology.

I take this to mean that Egyptology's already established "absolute dates" are used to verify the tests. And that an "accurate correction scale" is needed to bring C14 dates in line with Egyptology's dates. How can they do this?!! How can 'historic', which has absolutely no calendar dates, be used to confirm a science test?!! It's absurd. The ancient Greeks had a calendar, although still not completely understood, and the Romans had one, so they can determine that Nero lived at such and such time. But the AE had no calendar.

Quote

Since these documents are all incomplete, we have to reconstruct the list of kings with the aid of other monuments and data, both contemporary and of much later date, such as Manetho's Egyptian history, compiled in the third century B.C. on the basis of old sources but unfortunately known to us only through still later excerpts.

Manetho is the backbone of Egyptian chronology, it always was.

Quote

It would have been easy to obtain excellent and reliably dated samples from the funerary ship of King Cheops, whose death can be dated to c. 2556 (maximum) and c. 2530 B.C. (minimum). We know that his ship was deposited near the pyramid by his successor Djedefre. Among other finds there were large quantities of decayed ropes in the shaft, which would have been excellent for C14 dating, thus avoiding the problems of large logs, inner growth rings, etc.
Instead three pieces of three different species of wood were used for one date. This sample should be reliable, the historical date is certain within rather narrow margins, and the find was safely sealed. But the C14 dating differs widely from the general trend of the period in question.

Really? Could the Egyptologists be wrong?

He who knows all the answers has not been asked all the questions - Confucius

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Orthos Hypocrisy 1833 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 291 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:36
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 298 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 298 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 277 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 257 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 204 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 280 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 248 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 252 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 308 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 295 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 230 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:23
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 212 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 293 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 282 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:39
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 227 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 244 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 204 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 237 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 274 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 300 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 237 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 233 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 247 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:10
And therein lies the end to the conversation. 225 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:19
Pz runs home to maat 255 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 276 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 03:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 249 Vladislaw 19-Mar-02 23:35
One Overlooked Consideration... 270 ARTiFact 20-Mar-02 00:57
Re: One Overlooked Consideration... 312 Vladislaw 20-Mar-02 14:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 259 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 03:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 233 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:36
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 226 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 238 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 280 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 220 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 251 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 223 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:28
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 229 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:29
Give us paint testing 231 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:33
Re: Give us paint testing 259 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:35
Re: Give us paint testing 248 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:45
Re: Give us paint testing 221 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:47
Re: Give us paint testing 229 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:54
Re: Give us paint testing 277 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 23:10
Re: Give us paint testing 223 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 19:58
Re: Give us paint testing 281 Harry 22-Mar-02 00:36
Re: Give us paint testing 214 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 245 Frank D 21-Mar-02 10:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 339 Martin Stower 21-Mar-02 16:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 302 Frank D 22-Mar-02 01:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 234 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 272 Frank D 22-Mar-02 10:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 355 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 04:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 396 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 10:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 262 Warwick 19-Mar-17 17:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 371 Audrey 19-Mar-17 17:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 340 Warwick 19-Mar-17 17:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 281 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 367 Warwick 19-Mar-17 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 361 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 251 Warwick 19-Mar-17 19:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 254 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 342 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 324 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 17:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 367 Audrey 19-Mar-17 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 256 Warwick 19-Mar-17 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 351 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 297 Audrey 19-Mar-17 19:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 351 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 313 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 262 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 336 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 214 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 21:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 314 Audrey 19-Mar-17 21:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 291 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 349 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 237 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 247 Audrey 20-Mar-17 01:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 338 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:36
kind request 384 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 01:48
Re: kind request 345 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 02:26
Re: kind request 326 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 02:42
Re: kind request 266 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 02:58
Re: kind request 303 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 03:16
Re: kind request 266 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:38
Re: kind request 270 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 10:39
Re: kind request 248 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 03:38
Re: kind request 239 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:43
Re: kind request 219 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 04:12
Re: kind request 257 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 06:22
Effects of contamination on RCD 288 Merrell 20-Mar-17 09:29
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 332 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 13:17
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 248 Merrell 20-Mar-17 13:57
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 236 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 14:15
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 233 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 14:46
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 268 Merrell 20-Mar-17 15:36
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 261 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 15:54
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 228 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 17:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 159 Warwick 20-Mar-17 17:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 215 Merrell 20-Mar-17 17:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 308 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 18:18
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 221 Warwick 20-Mar-17 19:10
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 285 Merrell 20-Mar-17 20:26
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 294 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 20:51
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 311 Audrey 21-Mar-17 02:16
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 203 Warwick 21-Mar-17 02:54
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 233 Audrey 21-Mar-17 03:23
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 219 cladking 21-Mar-17 02:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 310 Warwick 21-Mar-17 03:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 209 cladking 21-Mar-17 03:57
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 195 Warwick 21-Mar-17 04:18
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 283 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 10:35
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 207 cladking 21-Mar-17 22:15
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 259 Audrey 22-Mar-17 00:13
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 245 cladking 22-Mar-17 00:52
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 265 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 00:59
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 226 Audrey 22-Mar-17 03:14
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 291 Jon Ellison 22-Mar-17 12:09
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 338 Origyptian 22-Mar-17 13:48
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 344 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 00:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 270 cladking 22-Mar-17 01:09
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 423 Thunderbird 21-Mar-17 03:23
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 231 Warwick 21-Mar-17 03:32
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 316 Origyptian 21-Mar-17 03:45
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 217 Corpuscles 21-Mar-17 04:00
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 245 Warwick 21-Mar-17 04:22
Re: Effects on the mind : ) 264 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 09:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 263 Martin Stower 21-Mar-17 09:47
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 314 Audrey 22-Mar-17 00:08
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 249 Martin Stower 22-Mar-17 01:58
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 225 Audrey 23-Mar-17 04:14
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 247 Martin Stower 23-Mar-17 12:03
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 256 Audrey 24-Mar-17 00:35
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 214 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 00:55
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 248 Audrey 24-Mar-17 01:02
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 214 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 01:07
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 306 Audrey 24-Mar-17 04:42
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 270 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 14:12
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 256 Origyptian 24-Mar-17 14:43
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 374 Martin Stower 24-Mar-17 15:24
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 518 Audrey 25-Mar-17 02:36
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 239 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 13:49
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 204 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 13:56
Re: Effects of contamination on RCD 234 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 14:23
Re: kind request 233 Corpuscles 20-Mar-17 02:53
Re: kind request 228 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 03:19
Re: kind request 303 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 02:50
Re: kind request 370 Audrey 20-Mar-17 03:09
Re: kind request 179 Warwick 20-Mar-17 13:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 284 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 20:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 221 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 206 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 21:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 300 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 22:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 365 Audrey 19-Mar-17 23:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 238 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 192 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 195 Warwick 20-Mar-17 14:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 325 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 17:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 239 Audrey 19-Mar-17 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 215 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 20:12
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 209 Audrey 19-Mar-17 20:34
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 217 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 21:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 310 Audrey 19-Mar-17 21:19
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 277 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 22:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 202 Audrey 19-Mar-17 23:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 201 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 298 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 189 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 284 Audrey 20-Mar-17 01:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 208 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 280 Origyptian 19-Mar-17 21:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 294 Audrey 19-Mar-17 22:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 71 Warwick 18-Jun-17 18:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 147 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 13:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 185 Merrell 19-Jun-17 13:23
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 180 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 13:31
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 79 Warwick 19-Jun-17 16:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 198 Thanos5150 19-Jun-17 19:05
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 64 Warwick 20-Jun-17 17:13
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 150 Origyptian 20-Jun-17 18:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 73 Warwick 20-Jun-17 19:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 339 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 00:34
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 270 Origyptian 20-Mar-17 00:44
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 179 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 190 Audrey 20-Mar-17 00:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 256 Martin Stower 20-Mar-17 01:28
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 402 Warwick 20-Mar-17 14:20
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 305 Martin Stower 19-Mar-17 19:47
The Medium 188 Warwick 19-Mar-17 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 179 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 216 Frank D 22-Mar-02 01:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 184 Harry 22-Mar-02 01:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 83 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 16:32
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 112 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 108 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:48
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 107 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 200 Frank D 22-Mar-02 16:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 485 gulsbo 20-Jun-17 20:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 113 Tommi Huhtamaki 19-Mar-02 17:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 141 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:51
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 81 Tommi Huhtamaki 19-Mar-02 17:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 115 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 110 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 104 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:15
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 117 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 100 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:25
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 93 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 71 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:33
Here, I highly doubt you'll bother... 234 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 12:31
Totally unconvincing 82 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:38
Re: Totally unconvincing 104 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:53
Re: Totally unconvincing 108 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:15
Re: Totally unconvincing 100 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:18
Re: Totally unconvincing 116 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:29
Re: Totally unconvincing 117 Harry 20-Mar-02 18:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 95 HectorChico 21-Mar-02 13:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 96 Harry 21-Mar-02 14:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 99 HectorChico 21-Mar-02 14:14
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 99 Mercury Rapids 19-Mar-02 19:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 91 Milo 19-Mar-02 17:38
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 106 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 92 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:49
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 85 Harry 19-Mar-02 17:55
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 95 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 107 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 87 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:21
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 101 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 99 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:39
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 103 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 89 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:45
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 94 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 99 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:55
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 101 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:57
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 92 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 82 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 116 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:03
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 113 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 88 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:14
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 96 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 92 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:50
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 97 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:54
Ortho admits defeat 72 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:56
Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 112 Pete Vanderzwet 19-Mar-02 20:00
Re: Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 84 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:05
Re: Believe it if it makes you feel better. N/T 89 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:22
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 110 Pete Vanderzwet 19-Mar-02 19:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 94 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 107 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 01:57
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 103 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 17:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 108 Milo 19-Mar-02 17:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 102 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:01
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 78 Milo 19-Mar-02 18:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 76 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 97 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:08
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 101 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 96 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:29
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 103 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:40
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 108 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:47
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 98 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 102 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 90 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:59
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 104 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:02
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 94 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 74 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:09
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 106 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 82 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:33
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 109 lobo-hotei 19-Mar-02 19:43
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 98 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 19:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 79 Harry 19-Mar-02 19:49
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 102 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 83 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 93 Harry 19-Mar-02 18:00
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 88 Ian Alex Blease 19-Mar-02 18:34
KHUFU -- HWFW -- "Holy Ancient One" 129 ARTiFact 19-Mar-02 21:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 115 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 02:35
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 100 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 16:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 93 Harry 20-Mar-02 17:54
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 92 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 18:17
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 88 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:56
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 77 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:48
Ian's Hypocrisy 117 Harry 21-Mar-02 12:38
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 76 Martin Stower 21-Mar-02 16:49
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 99 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:08
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 110 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:19
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 99 Ian Alex Blease 22-Mar-02 16:36
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 101 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:17
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 112 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Ian's Hypocrisy 97 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 20:18
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 105 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 50 Harry 22-Mar-02 00:26
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 71 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:30
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 98 Ian Alex Blease 21-Mar-02 20:05
Ian's Hypocrisy Revisited 111 Martin Stower 22-Mar-02 02:36
Ian admits his intellectual bankruptcy. 113 Martin Stower 20-Mar-02 22:58
Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 111 R Avry Wilson 20-Mar-02 06:22
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 89 opti-mystic 20-Mar-02 07:59
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 76 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:46
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 96 Harry 20-Mar-02 11:42
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 121 Vladislaw 20-Mar-02 14:46
Re: Peter... a few comments? Ian, you too. 110 Harry 20-Mar-02 14:52
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 104 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 19:46
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 106 Harry 20-Mar-02 20:03
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 98 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 20:04
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 109 Harry 20-Mar-02 20:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 122 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 20:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 86 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 20:58
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 99 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 21:06
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 95 Paul Mallon 20-Mar-02 21:07
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 114 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 21:11
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 121 Pete Vanderzwet 20-Mar-02 21:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 108 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 21:27
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 124 Paul Mallon 21-Mar-02 09:16
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 125 Harry 21-Mar-02 12:41
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 104 Ian Alex Blease 20-Mar-02 20:37
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 220 Warwick 18-Jun-17 18:24
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 313 Merrell 18-Jun-17 21:53
Re: Orthos Hypocrisy 182 Warwick 19-Jun-17 05:48


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.