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Hi Thanos

As usual an interesting OP cram packed with information. Which can (has) lead to much thought and side reading, which is likely beyond the scope your intended specific focus.

It appears it is a scholarly question focused on minutiae, based on or incorporating a lot of the presumptions of established Egyptology. ( Albeit, I realise you do not necessarily agree with many of its tenants)

In focusing on that minutiae some points come to mind:

Another alternative is that the lid or “the greater part of it” found by Vyse separate area to the lost sarcophagus belongs to a different intrusive placement at some unknown time.
(It is clear that in Vyse team was a gifted artist. Note the effort to incorporate shadow from the torch held. Given the skill and beauty of the drawing it seems to me it is likely a very accurate rendition of what they found.
Whether the same artist drew the poor elevations and plans is somewhat questionable. )

On a broader perspective your thread highlights many inconsistencies inherent in the guesswork and chain of Chinese type whispers that conjures up mainstream understanding of the various Kingdoms and Dynasties.

There is not any consistent “sarcophagus” style of the 4th dynasty or OK. If we just focus on the pictures of ‘sarcophagus’s” you have presented. We are led to believe and accept that in the space of four generations that:

- Snefuru or the “ intern” in Meidum opted for a rough unpolished granite box with an ill fitting lid. The lid similar but of much poorer finish to the “style” of those evidenced in the attributed to a much later NK Serepeum.

- Son Khufu, the most specific and demanding particular “pyramid builder” of all time, opted for a plain undecorated relatively smallish granite box. The seal rim rounded and rough, but the interior beautifully smooth.

- Grandson Djedefre , (or someone buried near Abu Roash) wanted a beautiful alabaster (or limestone?) box decorated with the prominent intricate “building” or doorway pattern. However opted for a totally inconsistent poorly finished rough lid?

- Other grandson Khafre, reverted to one like father Khufu, just a plain granite box, but thought it better to produce a squarish better fitting lid, sunken in a stage.

-As an aside we are also asked to believe that despite his relatively modest taste in sarcophagus, his wife Meresankh III deserved the decoration of the “building” or doorway patterns of those of the unknown epoch folk. ( Note extremely difficult to achieve in hard stone, and impossible with only copper tools/chisels )

- Then great grandson Menkaure decided to go the whole hog on the wonderful elaborate “building” or doorways pattern with a few extras , if Vyse is to be believed in BASALT! He surely knew what Basalt was, as distinct from Alabaster!?

- To top it off, the elaborate “building” or doorways pattern box is not only found in the Eastern cemetery of Giza as the picture you “dug up” shows, but there is a similar one, seemingly abandoned , in a corridor under Djosers step pyramid!

My purely speculative amateur (perhaps ‘fresh thinking”) conclusion that over the ravages of many millennia of the AE civilization, and subsequent two millennia of post AE period that sarcophagus have had lids smashed and replaced mismatched, stolen, moved , reused, and we can’t possibly in most cases know when!

You asked:


Regardless, Menkaure's sarcophagus as depicted by Vyse seems incongruous to the time. The question is why?

My suggested answer is because of the confused, illogical, inconsistent, incoherent, incongruous perspective that mainstream Egyptology has cobbled together of what is thought/guessed/presumed to be congruous to the “time” by which I think you mean Old Kingdom and perhaps more specifically 4th Dynasty.
This is made abundantly obvious by the short written rant of Hawass posted by EoH!

Please forgive, or ignore, if off topic or seemingly irrelevant.


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Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 4950 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 06:34
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 452 eyeofhorus33 19-Jul-15 15:43
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 828 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 18:17
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 478 eyeofhorus33 20-Jul-15 07:24
Re: Serapeum 418 Thunderbird 19-Jul-15 16:21
Re: Serapeum 559 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 18:28
Re: Pre Dyn Pharaohs/Sumer 448 Thunderbird 20-Jul-15 20:40
Re: Pre Dyn Pharaohs/Sumer 480 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 05:31
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 407 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 17:39
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 1461 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 19:02
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 439 molder 20-Jul-15 12:05
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 424 Spiros 20-Jul-15 13:59
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 452 Spiros 23-Jul-15 02:27
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 549 DScribr 20-Jul-15 19:56
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 519 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 02:28
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 337 Thunderbird 21-Jul-15 15:23
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 375 DScribr 21-Jul-15 19:48
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 498 eyeofhorus33 21-Jul-15 21:51
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 395 Jon Ellison 21-Jul-15 22:41
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 522 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 05:16
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 376 Corpuscles 22-Jul-15 08:23
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 389 DScribr 23-Jul-15 18:28
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 416 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 00:21
Ascension 422 loveritas 22-Jul-15 12:53
Re: Ascension 407 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 05:17
Re: Ascension 411 Sirfiroth 23-Jul-15 09:49
Re: Ascension 393 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 18:03
Re: Ascension 425 Thunderbird 23-Jul-15 14:53
The Aryans 568 loveritas 24-Jul-15 05:00
Re: The Aryans 652 Jon Ellison 24-Jul-15 09:49
Re: The Aryans 392 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 04:11
Re: 2 Doors 388 DScribr 23-Jul-15 18:54
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 463 Thunderbird 24-Jul-15 19:39
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 513 loveritas 25-Jul-15 00:55
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 443 Thunderbird 25-Jul-15 15:59
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 589 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 20:39
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 460 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 01:43
Re: Vinca/Indus/Mu - Lemuria 685 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 02:38
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 415 loveritas 26-Jul-15 03:05
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 738 Thanos5150 26-Jul-15 06:11
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 570 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 15:59
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 647 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 15:30
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 1137 Thanos5150 26-Jul-15 23:56
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 401 Corpuscles 27-Jul-15 02:08
Re: Dating 422 Thanos5150 27-Jul-15 05:11
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 467 Brian Patterson 27-Jul-15 15:34
Re: Out of Thessaly 444 Thunderbird 27-Jul-15 02:36
Re: Out of Thessaly 450 loveritas 27-Jul-15 03:44
Re: Out of Thessaly 438 Thunderbird 27-Jul-15 05:37
Re: Out of Thessaly 439 Origyptian 28-Jul-15 02:16
Re: Posnansky Tiawanaku 428 Thunderbird 28-Jul-15 02:47
Re: Sargon/Menes 442 Thunderbird 28-Jul-15 01:59
Re: Sargon/Menes 998 Thanos5150 28-Jul-15 06:30
Re: Sargons Empire 413 Thunderbird 28-Jul-15 14:51
Re: Sargons Empire 407 Thanos5150 28-Jul-15 17:54
Re: Sargons Empire 545 Origyptian 28-Jul-15 22:22
Re: Saron/Har Ka- Narmer/Naram Sin 459 Thunderbird 29-Jul-15 20:30
Re: Saron/Har Ka- Narmer/Naram Sin 445 loveritas 29-Jul-15 22:31
Re: Saron/Har Ka- Narmer/Naram Sin 614 Thunderbird 30-Jul-15 22:10
Now There's a Sarcophagus! 447 loveritas 27-Jul-15 00:08
Re:Be kind.....recycle : ) 468 Thunderbird 27-Jul-15 01:27
Re: Re:Be kind.....recycle : ) 394 Thanos5150 27-Jul-15 01:41
Re: Now There's a Sarcophagus! 440 Origyptian 27-Jul-15 02:17
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus, ETC. 390 DScribr 23-Jul-15 18:43
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 393 Corpuscles 21-Jul-15 07:19
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 391 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 19:40
Re: I see Glass 422 molder 21-Jul-15 10:51
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 527 Archae Solenhofen 21-Jul-15 15:59
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 378 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 18:31
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 416 Archae Solenhofen 21-Jul-15 20:14
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 478 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 00:02
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 474 DUNE 21-Jul-15 20:18
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 433 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 04:29
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 639 DUNE 22-Jul-15 09:02
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 410 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 04:58
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 467 Corpuscles 23-Jul-15 11:06
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 514 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 16:31
Re: Menkaure's Format 397 DScribr 23-Jul-15 19:10
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 632 Corpuscles 24-Jul-15 03:59
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 434 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 02:33
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 508 Corpuscles 25-Jul-15 04:01
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 533 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 04:56
Without inscriptions. 465 DScribr 23-Jul-15 21:13
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 683 Thanos5150 24-Jul-15 03:08

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