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Hi Big T,

Thunderbird Wrote:
> []

The Sumerians date to c. 3,800BC, the Ubaid c. 5,500BC. The Indus Valley Civilization (IVC) urbanization period ("mature phase") dates to c. 2,600BC. Predating the IVC was the Mehrangarh culture of which settlements begin to appear as early as 7,000BC. It wasn't until the Mehrgarh Period II c. 5,500-4,800BC that ceramics and metallurgy appear which of course coincides directly with the arrival of the Ubaid in Mesopotamia and the Vinca SE Europe. Also of interest is that in the Mehrgarh III period c. 4,800-3,500BC is when they too begin building with mud brick like the Ubaid and also used Mesopotamian cylinder seals and clay stamps, another Ubaid invention. Personally I believe there is a connection to be made here.

Regardless, during the Sumerian period, the intermediary between these two cultures was Elam whose urbanization begins sometime before 3,200BC. Elam, as I said in a previous post, had settlements and trade in the Indus Valley before and during the IVC urbanization period of which it is around this time c. 2,600BC most scholars believe the water buffalo was introduced to Sumer which may have been by way of Elam. The Sumerians appear in Mesopotamia ready to go which they themselves claim they came from another land with their culture and civilization intact. They were voracious traders and when they arrived they accelerated and expanding already existing trade networks far and wide of which the Indus Valley was a part. They were the first to have a fully written language which was disseminated to other cultures in one form or another rather quickly. Given the chronologies of these cultures and the known trade and settlements of Mesopotamians in the region there should be no mystery that just like most other cultures in the greater Mediterranean area for thousands of years the IVC too adopted Sumerian myth/history and incorporated their Sumerian deities into their own religious ideology. The idea that the IVC, or Vedic tradition for that matter, gave it first to the Sumerians just isn't supported by the archeology. Sumer was the world's first "superpower" far ahead of their contemporaries. They travelled far and wide in search of goods and trading partners and told their tales as they went which given the Sumerian spectacle no doubt was quite impressive to these less advanced peoples.

> The link above indicates climate patterns and
> migrations.
> What reasons inspired the migrations to Naqada
> period
> Egypt is the question.

The Naqada region is located south of Abydos of which they had regular interaction with Nubia. AE tradition holds that their ancestral home, and the birthplace of the gods, was the land of Punt (Ta netjer). Some scholars say this would have been somewhere in or near Ethiopia whereas others claim it was somewhere along the Arabian coast across the Red Sea. No one knows for sure. But who were the Naqada and where did they originate from is not the same question as where did the Mesopotamian influence come from.

> I agree that the Aryan/Vedic/Indus forwards are
> biased and
> confusing as to historic dating and migration
> event accuracy.

There is a notable disconnect between the religious aspects of Hindu mythology and the archeology of the Mehrgarh and Indus Valley cultures. This is not to say they were not recollecting history as they knew it long removed, but like all later revisionist cultures creating their own religious identity from earlier history, often not their own, these stories get absorbed and regurgitated in nationalistic ways that are inconsistent with not only the original events but histories of the same written/told long before. Comparing the Biblical tales to their much earlier Sumerian parallels is the best example of this.

> The migrations circa 5000bc stand out in my
> thinking
> The Sumer/Vedic god/mythology parallels indicate
> the
> social consciousness influence which in my
> thinking is
> arriving in Sumer
> and then arriving in Naqada period Egypt.

I would distinguish between an earlier Ubaid influence and later Sumerian, but the point I would harp on about these connections is that there should be little doubt the flow of this influence was from Sumer to the Indus Valley beginning sometime in the 3rd millennium, an influence felt all across the greater Mediterranean region. A Sumerian influence carried on and dispensed all the same by the later peoples who absorbed their culture and traditions namely the Akkadians, Assyrians, and Babylonians for almost the next 2,000yrs. Whoever the "Aryans" or Aryas" were who came along in the mid 2nd millennium, several hundred years after the usurping of Sumer by Akkad-whatever "Sumerian" influence they incurred was obviously from these later cultures and not the "Sumerians" themselves.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 27-Jul-15 00:25 by Thanos5150.

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Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 4325 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 06:34
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 384 eyeofhorus33 19-Jul-15 15:43
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 718 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 18:17
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 412 eyeofhorus33 20-Jul-15 07:24
Re: Serapeum 358 Thunderbird 19-Jul-15 16:21
Re: Serapeum 495 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 18:28
Re: Pre Dyn Pharaohs/Sumer 384 Thunderbird 20-Jul-15 20:40
Re: Pre Dyn Pharaohs/Sumer 409 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 05:31
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 354 Thanos5150 19-Jul-15 17:39
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 1069 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 19:02
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 382 molder 20-Jul-15 12:05
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 362 Spiros 20-Jul-15 13:59
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 400 Spiros 23-Jul-15 02:27
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 482 DScribr 20-Jul-15 19:56
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 417 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 02:28
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 283 Thunderbird 21-Jul-15 15:23
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 324 DScribr 21-Jul-15 19:48
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 421 eyeofhorus33 21-Jul-15 21:51
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 341 Jon Ellison 21-Jul-15 22:41
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 462 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 05:16
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 328 Corpuscles 22-Jul-15 08:23
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 335 DScribr 23-Jul-15 18:28
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 353 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 00:21
Ascension 353 loveritas 22-Jul-15 12:53
Re: Ascension 336 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 05:17
Re: Ascension 363 Sirfiroth 23-Jul-15 09:49
Re: Ascension 343 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 18:03
Re: Ascension 373 Thunderbird 23-Jul-15 14:53
The Aryans 495 loveritas 24-Jul-15 05:00
Re: The Aryans 596 Jon Ellison 24-Jul-15 09:49
Re: The Aryans 349 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 04:11
Re: 2 Doors 344 DScribr 23-Jul-15 18:54
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 413 Thunderbird 24-Jul-15 19:39
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 432 loveritas 25-Jul-15 00:55
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 387 Thunderbird 25-Jul-15 15:59
Re: 7 Gates - Book of the Dead 516 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 20:39
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 411 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 01:43
Re: Vinca/Indus/Mu - Lemuria 624 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 02:38
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 350 loveritas 26-Jul-15 03:05
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 689 Thanos5150 26-Jul-15 06:11
Re: Revisionists and the Theosophical community 520 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 15:59
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 595 Thunderbird 26-Jul-15 15:30
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 1043 Thanos5150 26-Jul-15 23:56
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 354 Corpuscles 27-Jul-15 02:08
Re: Dating 361 Thanos5150 27-Jul-15 05:11
Re: Sumer DNA Evidence 413 Brian Patterson 27-Jul-15 15:34
Re: Out of Thessaly 383 Thunderbird 27-Jul-15 02:36
Re: Out of Thessaly 402 loveritas 27-Jul-15 03:44
Re: Out of Thessaly 390 Thunderbird 27-Jul-15 05:37
Re: Out of Thessaly 377 Origyptian 28-Jul-15 02:16
Re: Posnansky Tiawanaku 367 Thunderbird 28-Jul-15 02:47
Re: Sargon/Menes 368 Thunderbird 28-Jul-15 01:59
Re: Sargon/Menes 865 Thanos5150 28-Jul-15 06:30
Re: Sargons Empire 358 Thunderbird 28-Jul-15 14:51
Re: Sargons Empire 353 Thanos5150 28-Jul-15 17:54
Re: Sargons Empire 492 Origyptian 28-Jul-15 22:22
Re: Saron/Har Ka- Narmer/Naram Sin 406 Thunderbird 29-Jul-15 20:30
Re: Saron/Har Ka- Narmer/Naram Sin 392 loveritas 29-Jul-15 22:31
Re: Saron/Har Ka- Narmer/Naram Sin 547 Thunderbird 30-Jul-15 22:10
Now There's a Sarcophagus! 404 loveritas 27-Jul-15 00:08
Re:Be kind.....recycle : ) 406 Thunderbird 27-Jul-15 01:27
Re: Re:Be kind.....recycle : ) 339 Thanos5150 27-Jul-15 01:41
Re: Now There's a Sarcophagus! 389 Origyptian 27-Jul-15 02:17
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus, ETC. 346 DScribr 23-Jul-15 18:43
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 345 Corpuscles 21-Jul-15 07:19
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 346 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 19:40
Re: I see Glass 368 molder 21-Jul-15 10:51
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 472 Archae Solenhofen 21-Jul-15 15:59
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 327 Thanos5150 21-Jul-15 18:31
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 360 Archae Solenhofen 21-Jul-15 20:14
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 392 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 00:02
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 401 DUNE 21-Jul-15 20:18
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 369 Thanos5150 22-Jul-15 04:29
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 582 DUNE 22-Jul-15 09:02
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 358 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 04:58
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 428 Corpuscles 23-Jul-15 11:06
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 472 Thanos5150 23-Jul-15 16:31
Re: Menkaure's Format 342 DScribr 23-Jul-15 19:10
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 587 Corpuscles 24-Jul-15 03:59
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 382 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 02:33
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 448 Corpuscles 25-Jul-15 04:01
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 490 Thanos5150 25-Jul-15 04:56
Without inscriptions. 386 DScribr 23-Jul-15 21:13
Re: Menkaure's Sarcophagus Revisited 621 Thanos5150 24-Jul-15 03:08

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