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Thanos5150 wrote:

> Origyptian:
Quote

> One of the ostraca fragments is a communication between
> the quarry and the procurator admitting that the column is
> ready for shipment but the quarry administrator doesn't know
> what quarry it's from. In another fragment the quarryman asks
> the procurator for "more iron" to presumably speed up getting a
> single column ready. What kind of quarry is this that isn't
> equipped to quarry the stones that are on order?
> One that quarries columns obviously. Yes, we in the modern
> world never make mistakes or need more material to complete a
> job. Come on man. But strange you would cite an ostraca that
> clearly refers to quarrying and columns yet still think this is
> not evidence? A broken record, but this make no sense. The
> ostraca speak extensively of the quarrying activities which as
> you unknowingly note the overwhelming majority date to the time
> of Hadrian which is also the most active period of using the
> stone from MC in the Roman Empire.


Note quite. I think you may be overreading. Here is the complete inscription, per Russell (P.212):
Quote

To Antonius Flavianus, prefect, from the foreman and the stonemasons, Sir, greetings. With the help of our Lord Sarapis and the Tyche of Claudianus and your Tyche we announce that we have finished one of the 25 foot columns on the 26th day of Hathyr. If you please, Sir, and with the accord of our master the procurator, if steel and charcoal be sent to us, we shall finish the other one faster, if we can work without hindrance. From the moment you send us (it, and if) all the infidels (will leave us in peace)...(we shall be able to finish it).
I presume the parenthetic phrases are speculation of the translator to replace unreadable inscriptions. There is no reference to quarrying any stone. In fact there is no reference to actually doing any work on a stone at all. "Finished" could simply mean it's packed up on the transporter and ready to roll, but could also mean trimming a pre-existing column to the procurator's current specifications. There is no specific indication of what they intended to use the "steel and charcoal" for -- it makes no mention of whether the "steel" should be chisels, axles, spokes, nails, tie-bands, etc. I'm wondering why he didn't specify what form of "steel" he needed.

And so we are left with the distinct possibility that the "steel and charcoal" may instead be intended simply as bribes to keep the "infidels" away so they can finish their work. To speculate alternative unreadable phrases: "From the moment you send us the bribes, all the infidels will leave us in peace...and we will be allowed to finish our work". After all, there were many reports of the locals causing repeated disruptions in the workflow, and it's certainly logical that the quarry would tend to resist giving away its own precious tools as bribes to keep the locals at bay or else they would soon run out of tools. The generic request for "steel and charcoal" might simply indicate that ANY form form of steel would suffice as a trinket to keep the infidels away. But wasn't M. Claudianus akin to a military operation with a so-called "fort" there that allegedly protected the quarry operation?

And regarding the source of the column:
Quote

You write, Sir, to tell you from which quarry. We do not know the name of the quarry, but it is the quarry far from praesidium, lying towards Porphyrites, which we have given the name 'Philoserapis'. When we were well arrived at the quarry...
And they were ready to ship the 2nd column 19 days later, but apparently it was either a broken/repaired column or the result of conjoining two pre-existing shorter columns to form one longer column which resulted in this inscription:
Quote

We have received your letter, Sir, in which you reproach us about the caurasia [broken stone?] because we have made then conterminous [fitted them together?]. However, as we (had learnt) from your letter that there was iron in the store, we used all the colour-mixing, like the people of old (taught us).

"Steel and charcoal"?
"Infidels"?
"Conterminous"?
"People of old"?

Fascinating material, these ostraca.



______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 816 JonnyMcA 25-Jun-15 20:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 347 Thanos5150 25-Jun-15 23:19
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 369 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 01:22
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 435 Audrey 26-Jun-15 02:00
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 381 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 02:52
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 373 MJT 26-Jun-15 17:34
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 364 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 17:57
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 413 MJT 26-Jun-15 19:22
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 360 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 04:04
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 346 Audrey 26-Jun-15 05:18
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 347 Jon Ellison 26-Jun-15 10:24
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 381 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 15:26
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 355 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 359 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 06:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 297 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 14:50
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 342 Audrey 27-Jun-15 02:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 315 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 04:49
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 362 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 02:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 362 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 07:06
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 355 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 15:06
Example 365 DScribr 26-Jun-15 18:05
Re: Example 302 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:04
Re: Example 315 cladking 26-Jun-15 19:21
Re: Example 324 Brian Patterson 26-Jun-15 19:32
Re: Example 402 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:43
Re: Example 330 DScribr 26-Jun-15 22:36
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 314 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 20:24
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 353 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 21:42
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 358 Corpuscles 27-Jun-15 00:19
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 333 Audrey 27-Jun-15 02:26
Same old same old..... 382 DScribr 26-Jun-15 22:48
Re: Same old same old..... 394 Thanos5150 27-Jun-15 05:16
Re: Same old same old..... 346 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 16:08
Re: Same old same old..... 371 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 21:18
Re: Same old same old..... 318 Corpuscles 28-Jun-15 00:10
Re: Same old same old..... 300 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 01:25
Re: Same old same old..... 370 Corpuscles 28-Jun-15 02:52
Re: Same old same old..... 334 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 01:35
Re: Same old same old..... 353 Audrey 28-Jun-15 00:47
Re: Same old same old..... 377 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 02:56
Re: Same old same old..... 330 Merrell 28-Jun-15 13:20
Only One World of True Believers? 340 cladking 28-Jun-15 15:23
Re: Same old same old..... 320 Thanos5150 28-Jun-15 03:27
Re: Same old same old..... 416 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 11:00
Re: Same old same old..... 319 Thanos5150 28-Jun-15 16:53
Re: Same old same old..... 356 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 17:25
Re: Same old same old..... 329 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 18:14
Why change??? 317 DScribr 30-Jun-15 22:19
Re: Why change??? 290 Jon Ellison 30-Jun-15 22:52
Re: Why change??? 357 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 04:27
Re: Why change??? 382 Corpuscles 01-Jul-15 06:11
Re: Why change??? 312 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 13:41
Re: Why change??? 308 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 14:08
Re: Why change??? 379 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 15:33
Re: Why change??? 314 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 15:38
Re: Why change??? 359 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 16:03
Re: Why change??? 370 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 16:21
Re: Why care about the facts??? 323 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:59
Re: Why care about the facts??? 341 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 20:13
Re: Why care about the facts??? 342 Jon Ellison 02-Jul-15 20:52
Mod Warning > Jon Ellison 361 lukehancock 03-Jul-15 11:20
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 385 DScribr 06-Jul-15 18:17
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 313 Corpuscles 07-Jul-15 02:26
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 348 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 03:26
Willful ignorance 399 DScribr 07-Jul-15 18:02
Re: Why care about the facts??? 372 Jon Ellison 02-Jul-15 22:49
Re: NO change of facts 333 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:54
Re: NO change of facts 361 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 21:55
Re: Why change??? 287 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:52
Re: Why change??? 374 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 21:54
"Seems to be..." 324 DScribr 06-Jul-15 18:06
Re: "Seems to be..." 316 Origyptian 06-Jul-15 19:03
Re: "Seems to be..." 250 DScribr 07-Jul-15 17:48
Re: "Seems to be..." 351 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 18:19
Re: "Seems to be..." 323 DScribr 07-Jul-15 18:31
Re: "Seems to be..." 353 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 18:35
Re: "Seems to be..." 331 Jon Ellison 07-Jul-15 20:27
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 340 DScribr 08-Jul-15 17:49
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 302 Origyptian 08-Jul-15 17:55
It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 314 DScribr 08-Jul-15 22:49
Re: It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 382 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 00:32
Re: It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 379 Origyptian 09-Jul-15 05:55
Same nonsense-different day... 352 DScribr 09-Jul-15 18:13
Re: Same nonsense-different day... 347 Origyptian 09-Jul-15 18:45
Re: Same nonsense-different day... 329 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 19:21
Re: Same nonsense-different day....A MUST READ for all Ori "Fans." 330 DScribr 10-Jul-15 19:29
Re: Same nonsense-different day....A MUST READ for all Ori "Fans." 419 Origyptian 10-Jul-15 21:02
Selective memory loss 447 DScribr 10-Jul-15 22:49
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 321 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 01:09
English Lesson 356 randompHactor 27-Jun-15 15:46
Re: English Lesson 353 Thanos5150 27-Jun-15 16:33
Re: English Lesson 371 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 16:55
Re: English Lesson 393 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 20:25
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 351 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 04:31
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 273 Audrey 26-Jun-15 05:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 292 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 06:43
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 278 Audrey 27-Jun-15 01:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 340 Corpuscles 27-Jun-15 01:56
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 341 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 17:00
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 448 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 18:58
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 309 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 20:05
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 349 Origyptian 29-Jun-15 13:39
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 338 Jon Ellison 29-Jun-15 14:11
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 343 Audrey 30-Jun-15 03:01
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 353 Jon Ellison 30-Jun-15 13:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 339 DUNE 27-Jun-15 17:01
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 346 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 17:10
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 350 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-15 18:12
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 312 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 18:37
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 348 cladking 27-Jun-15 18:47
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 306 Ulrich 28-Jun-15 15:06
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 315 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 15:30
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 324 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 16:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 291 Audrey 28-Jun-15 17:39
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 319 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 18:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 368 Ulrich 29-Jun-15 19:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 344 Audrey 30-Jun-15 01:26
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 304 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 02:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 390 Origyptian 30-Jun-15 03:48
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 343 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 15:53
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 404 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 21:03
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 441 Thanos5150 30-Jun-15 04:12
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 325 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 19:11
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 344 Thanos5150 29-Jun-15 21:25


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