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Thanos5150 wrote:

> Origyptian:
Quote

> One of the ostraca fragments is a communication between
> the quarry and the procurator admitting that the column is
> ready for shipment but the quarry administrator doesn't know
> what quarry it's from. In another fragment the quarryman asks
> the procurator for "more iron" to presumably speed up getting a
> single column ready. What kind of quarry is this that isn't
> equipped to quarry the stones that are on order?
> One that quarries columns obviously. Yes, we in the modern
> world never make mistakes or need more material to complete a
> job. Come on man. But strange you would cite an ostraca that
> clearly refers to quarrying and columns yet still think this is
> not evidence? A broken record, but this make no sense. The
> ostraca speak extensively of the quarrying activities which as
> you unknowingly note the overwhelming majority date to the time
> of Hadrian which is also the most active period of using the
> stone from MC in the Roman Empire.


Note quite. I think you may be overreading. Here is the complete inscription, per Russell (P.212):
Quote

To Antonius Flavianus, prefect, from the foreman and the stonemasons, Sir, greetings. With the help of our Lord Sarapis and the Tyche of Claudianus and your Tyche we announce that we have finished one of the 25 foot columns on the 26th day of Hathyr. If you please, Sir, and with the accord of our master the procurator, if steel and charcoal be sent to us, we shall finish the other one faster, if we can work without hindrance. From the moment you send us (it, and if) all the infidels (will leave us in peace)...(we shall be able to finish it).
I presume the parenthetic phrases are speculation of the translator to replace unreadable inscriptions. There is no reference to quarrying any stone. In fact there is no reference to actually doing any work on a stone at all. "Finished" could simply mean it's packed up on the transporter and ready to roll, but could also mean trimming a pre-existing column to the procurator's current specifications. There is no specific indication of what they intended to use the "steel and charcoal" for -- it makes no mention of whether the "steel" should be chisels, axles, spokes, nails, tie-bands, etc. I'm wondering why he didn't specify what form of "steel" he needed.

And so we are left with the distinct possibility that the "steel and charcoal" may instead be intended simply as bribes to keep the "infidels" away so they can finish their work. To speculate alternative unreadable phrases: "From the moment you send us the bribes, all the infidels will leave us in peace...and we will be allowed to finish our work". After all, there were many reports of the locals causing repeated disruptions in the workflow, and it's certainly logical that the quarry would tend to resist giving away its own precious tools as bribes to keep the locals at bay or else they would soon run out of tools. The generic request for "steel and charcoal" might simply indicate that ANY form form of steel would suffice as a trinket to keep the infidels away. But wasn't M. Claudianus akin to a military operation with a so-called "fort" there that allegedly protected the quarry operation?

And regarding the source of the column:
Quote

You write, Sir, to tell you from which quarry. We do not know the name of the quarry, but it is the quarry far from praesidium, lying towards Porphyrites, which we have given the name 'Philoserapis'. When we were well arrived at the quarry...
And they were ready to ship the 2nd column 19 days later, but apparently it was either a broken/repaired column or the result of conjoining two pre-existing shorter columns to form one longer column which resulted in this inscription:
Quote

We have received your letter, Sir, in which you reproach us about the caurasia [broken stone?] because we have made then conterminous [fitted them together?]. However, as we (had learnt) from your letter that there was iron in the store, we used all the colour-mixing, like the people of old (taught us).

"Steel and charcoal"?
"Infidels"?
"Conterminous"?
"People of old"?

Fascinating material, these ostraca.



______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 822 JonnyMcA 25-Jun-15 20:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 348 Thanos5150 25-Jun-15 23:19
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 373 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 01:22
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 444 Audrey 26-Jun-15 02:00
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 385 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 02:52
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 384 MJT 26-Jun-15 17:34
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 367 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 17:57
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 419 MJT 26-Jun-15 19:22
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 369 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 04:04
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 349 Audrey 26-Jun-15 05:18
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 356 Jon Ellison 26-Jun-15 10:24
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 385 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 15:26
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 360 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 367 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 06:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 302 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 14:50
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 344 Audrey 27-Jun-15 02:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 319 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 04:49
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 366 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 02:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 370 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 07:06
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 362 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 15:06
Example 378 DScribr 26-Jun-15 18:05
Re: Example 305 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:04
Re: Example 319 cladking 26-Jun-15 19:21
Re: Example 329 Brian Patterson 26-Jun-15 19:32
Re: Example 406 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:43
Re: Example 332 DScribr 26-Jun-15 22:36
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 320 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 20:24
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 357 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 21:42
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 362 Corpuscles 27-Jun-15 00:19
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 337 Audrey 27-Jun-15 02:26
Same old same old..... 385 DScribr 26-Jun-15 22:48
Re: Same old same old..... 396 Thanos5150 27-Jun-15 05:16
Re: Same old same old..... 350 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 16:08
Re: Same old same old..... 374 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 21:18
Re: Same old same old..... 328 Corpuscles 28-Jun-15 00:10
Re: Same old same old..... 303 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 01:25
Re: Same old same old..... 372 Corpuscles 28-Jun-15 02:52
Re: Same old same old..... 340 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 01:35
Re: Same old same old..... 355 Audrey 28-Jun-15 00:47
Re: Same old same old..... 383 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 02:56
Re: Same old same old..... 337 Merrell 28-Jun-15 13:20
Only One World of True Believers? 350 cladking 28-Jun-15 15:23
Re: Same old same old..... 323 Thanos5150 28-Jun-15 03:27
Re: Same old same old..... 420 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 11:00
Re: Same old same old..... 323 Thanos5150 28-Jun-15 16:53
Re: Same old same old..... 363 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 17:25
Re: Same old same old..... 337 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 18:14
Why change??? 320 DScribr 30-Jun-15 22:19
Re: Why change??? 293 Jon Ellison 30-Jun-15 22:52
Re: Why change??? 360 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 04:27
Re: Why change??? 385 Corpuscles 01-Jul-15 06:11
Re: Why change??? 314 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 13:41
Re: Why change??? 310 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 14:08
Re: Why change??? 386 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 15:33
Re: Why change??? 319 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 15:38
Re: Why change??? 371 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 16:03
Re: Why change??? 372 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 16:21
Re: Why care about the facts??? 325 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:59
Re: Why care about the facts??? 343 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 20:13
Re: Why care about the facts??? 347 Jon Ellison 02-Jul-15 20:52
Mod Warning > Jon Ellison 365 lukehancock 03-Jul-15 11:20
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 387 DScribr 06-Jul-15 18:17
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 319 Corpuscles 07-Jul-15 02:26
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 355 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 03:26
Willful ignorance 404 DScribr 07-Jul-15 18:02
Re: Why care about the facts??? 375 Jon Ellison 02-Jul-15 22:49
Re: NO change of facts 337 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:54
Re: NO change of facts 364 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 21:55
Re: Why change??? 294 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:52
Re: Why change??? 377 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 21:54
"Seems to be..." 328 DScribr 06-Jul-15 18:06
Re: "Seems to be..." 320 Origyptian 06-Jul-15 19:03
Re: "Seems to be..." 253 DScribr 07-Jul-15 17:48
Re: "Seems to be..." 357 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 18:19
Re: "Seems to be..." 326 DScribr 07-Jul-15 18:31
Re: "Seems to be..." 355 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 18:35
Re: "Seems to be..." 336 Jon Ellison 07-Jul-15 20:27
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 346 DScribr 08-Jul-15 17:49
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 303 Origyptian 08-Jul-15 17:55
It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 318 DScribr 08-Jul-15 22:49
Re: It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 385 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 00:32
Re: It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 383 Origyptian 09-Jul-15 05:55
Same nonsense-different day... 359 DScribr 09-Jul-15 18:13
Re: Same nonsense-different day... 351 Origyptian 09-Jul-15 18:45
Re: Same nonsense-different day... 337 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 19:21
Re: Same nonsense-different day....A MUST READ for all Ori "Fans." 335 DScribr 10-Jul-15 19:29
Re: Same nonsense-different day....A MUST READ for all Ori "Fans." 423 Origyptian 10-Jul-15 21:02
Selective memory loss 449 DScribr 10-Jul-15 22:49
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 326 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 01:09
English Lesson 360 randompHactor 27-Jun-15 15:46
Re: English Lesson 356 Thanos5150 27-Jun-15 16:33
Re: English Lesson 376 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 16:55
Re: English Lesson 397 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 20:25
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 357 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 04:31
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 276 Audrey 26-Jun-15 05:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 297 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 06:43
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 282 Audrey 27-Jun-15 01:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 349 Corpuscles 27-Jun-15 01:56
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 351 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 17:00
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 451 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 18:58
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 318 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 20:05
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 353 Origyptian 29-Jun-15 13:39
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 340 Jon Ellison 29-Jun-15 14:11
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 348 Audrey 30-Jun-15 03:01
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 357 Jon Ellison 30-Jun-15 13:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 341 DUNE 27-Jun-15 17:01
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 348 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 17:10
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 355 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-15 18:12
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 316 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 18:37
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 353 cladking 27-Jun-15 18:47
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 310 Ulrich 28-Jun-15 15:06
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 327 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 15:30
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 326 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 16:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 295 Audrey 28-Jun-15 17:39
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 321 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 18:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 370 Ulrich 29-Jun-15 19:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 355 Audrey 30-Jun-15 01:26
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 308 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 02:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 393 Origyptian 30-Jun-15 03:48
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 353 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 15:53
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 407 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 21:03
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 446 Thanos5150 30-Jun-15 04:12
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 329 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 19:11
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 353 Thanos5150 29-Jun-15 21:25


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