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Thanos5150 wrote:

> Origyptian:
Quote

> One of the ostraca fragments is a communication between
> the quarry and the procurator admitting that the column is
> ready for shipment but the quarry administrator doesn't know
> what quarry it's from. In another fragment the quarryman asks
> the procurator for "more iron" to presumably speed up getting a
> single column ready. What kind of quarry is this that isn't
> equipped to quarry the stones that are on order?
> One that quarries columns obviously. Yes, we in the modern
> world never make mistakes or need more material to complete a
> job. Come on man. But strange you would cite an ostraca that
> clearly refers to quarrying and columns yet still think this is
> not evidence? A broken record, but this make no sense. The
> ostraca speak extensively of the quarrying activities which as
> you unknowingly note the overwhelming majority date to the time
> of Hadrian which is also the most active period of using the
> stone from MC in the Roman Empire.


Note quite. I think you may be overreading. Here is the complete inscription, per Russell (P.212):
Quote

To Antonius Flavianus, prefect, from the foreman and the stonemasons, Sir, greetings. With the help of our Lord Sarapis and the Tyche of Claudianus and your Tyche we announce that we have finished one of the 25 foot columns on the 26th day of Hathyr. If you please, Sir, and with the accord of our master the procurator, if steel and charcoal be sent to us, we shall finish the other one faster, if we can work without hindrance. From the moment you send us (it, and if) all the infidels (will leave us in peace)...(we shall be able to finish it).
I presume the parenthetic phrases are speculation of the translator to replace unreadable inscriptions. There is no reference to quarrying any stone. In fact there is no reference to actually doing any work on a stone at all. "Finished" could simply mean it's packed up on the transporter and ready to roll, but could also mean trimming a pre-existing column to the procurator's current specifications. There is no specific indication of what they intended to use the "steel and charcoal" for -- it makes no mention of whether the "steel" should be chisels, axles, spokes, nails, tie-bands, etc. I'm wondering why he didn't specify what form of "steel" he needed.

And so we are left with the distinct possibility that the "steel and charcoal" may instead be intended simply as bribes to keep the "infidels" away so they can finish their work. To speculate alternative unreadable phrases: "From the moment you send us the bribes, all the infidels will leave us in peace...and we will be allowed to finish our work". After all, there were many reports of the locals causing repeated disruptions in the workflow, and it's certainly logical that the quarry would tend to resist giving away its own precious tools as bribes to keep the locals at bay or else they would soon run out of tools. The generic request for "steel and charcoal" might simply indicate that ANY form form of steel would suffice as a trinket to keep the infidels away. But wasn't M. Claudianus akin to a military operation with a so-called "fort" there that allegedly protected the quarry operation?

And regarding the source of the column:
Quote

You write, Sir, to tell you from which quarry. We do not know the name of the quarry, but it is the quarry far from praesidium, lying towards Porphyrites, which we have given the name 'Philoserapis'. When we were well arrived at the quarry...
And they were ready to ship the 2nd column 19 days later, but apparently it was either a broken/repaired column or the result of conjoining two pre-existing shorter columns to form one longer column which resulted in this inscription:
Quote

We have received your letter, Sir, in which you reproach us about the caurasia [broken stone?] because we have made then conterminous [fitted them together?]. However, as we (had learnt) from your letter that there was iron in the store, we used all the colour-mixing, like the people of old (taught us).

"Steel and charcoal"?
"Infidels"?
"Conterminous"?
"People of old"?

Fascinating material, these ostraca.



______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 935 JonnyMcA 25-Jun-15 20:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 394 Thanos5150 25-Jun-15 23:19
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 416 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 01:22
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 484 Audrey 26-Jun-15 02:00
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 415 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 02:52
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 415 MJT 26-Jun-15 17:34
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 397 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 17:57
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 470 MJT 26-Jun-15 19:22
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 409 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 04:04
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 402 Audrey 26-Jun-15 05:18
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 399 Jon Ellison 26-Jun-15 10:24
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 428 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 15:26
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 401 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 404 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 06:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 331 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 14:50
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 368 Audrey 27-Jun-15 02:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 352 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 04:49
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 398 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 02:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 424 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 07:06
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 404 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 15:06
Example 429 DScribr 26-Jun-15 18:05
Re: Example 369 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:04
Re: Example 346 cladking 26-Jun-15 19:21
Re: Example 385 Brian Patterson 26-Jun-15 19:32
Re: Example 435 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:43
Re: Example 387 DScribr 26-Jun-15 22:36
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 369 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 20:24
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 409 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 21:42
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 400 Corpuscles 27-Jun-15 00:19
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 404 Audrey 27-Jun-15 02:26
Same old same old..... 459 DScribr 26-Jun-15 22:48
Re: Same old same old..... 430 Thanos5150 27-Jun-15 05:16
Re: Same old same old..... 400 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 16:08
Re: Same old same old..... 406 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 21:18
Re: Same old same old..... 359 Corpuscles 28-Jun-15 00:10
Re: Same old same old..... 337 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 01:25
Re: Same old same old..... 416 Corpuscles 28-Jun-15 02:52
Re: Same old same old..... 390 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 01:35
Re: Same old same old..... 411 Audrey 28-Jun-15 00:47
Re: Same old same old..... 445 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 02:56
Re: Same old same old..... 381 Merrell 28-Jun-15 13:20
Only One World of True Believers? 398 cladking 28-Jun-15 15:23
Re: Same old same old..... 364 Thanos5150 28-Jun-15 03:27
Re: Same old same old..... 467 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 11:00
Re: Same old same old..... 348 Thanos5150 28-Jun-15 16:53
Re: Same old same old..... 431 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 17:25
Re: Same old same old..... 376 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 18:14
Why change??? 363 DScribr 30-Jun-15 22:19
Re: Why change??? 361 Jon Ellison 30-Jun-15 22:52
Re: Why change??? 390 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 04:27
Re: Why change??? 431 Corpuscles 01-Jul-15 06:11
Re: Why change??? 374 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 13:41
Re: Why change??? 372 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 14:08
Re: Why change??? 434 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 15:33
Re: Why change??? 371 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 15:38
Re: Why change??? 428 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 16:03
Re: Why change??? 405 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 16:21
Re: Why care about the facts??? 357 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:59
Re: Why care about the facts??? 376 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 20:13
Re: Why care about the facts??? 393 Jon Ellison 02-Jul-15 20:52
Mod Warning > Jon Ellison 395 lukehancock 03-Jul-15 11:20
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 420 DScribr 06-Jul-15 18:17
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 387 Corpuscles 07-Jul-15 02:26
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 400 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 03:26
Willful ignorance 447 DScribr 07-Jul-15 18:02
Re: Why care about the facts??? 405 Jon Ellison 02-Jul-15 22:49
Re: NO change of facts 371 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:54
Re: NO change of facts 394 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 21:55
Re: Why change??? 331 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:52
Re: Why change??? 434 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 21:54
"Seems to be..." 359 DScribr 06-Jul-15 18:06
Re: "Seems to be..." 370 Origyptian 06-Jul-15 19:03
Re: "Seems to be..." 284 DScribr 07-Jul-15 17:48
Re: "Seems to be..." 386 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 18:19
Re: "Seems to be..." 373 DScribr 07-Jul-15 18:31
Re: "Seems to be..." 387 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 18:35
Re: "Seems to be..." 378 Jon Ellison 07-Jul-15 20:27
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 395 DScribr 08-Jul-15 17:49
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 336 Origyptian 08-Jul-15 17:55
It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 367 DScribr 08-Jul-15 22:49
Re: It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 440 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 00:32
Re: It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 413 Origyptian 09-Jul-15 05:55
Same nonsense-different day... 430 DScribr 09-Jul-15 18:13
Re: Same nonsense-different day... 412 Origyptian 09-Jul-15 18:45
Re: Same nonsense-different day... 395 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 19:21
Re: Same nonsense-different day....A MUST READ for all Ori "Fans." 364 DScribr 10-Jul-15 19:29
Re: Same nonsense-different day....A MUST READ for all Ori "Fans." 490 Origyptian 10-Jul-15 21:02
Selective memory loss 484 DScribr 10-Jul-15 22:49
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 373 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 01:09
English Lesson 392 randompHactor 27-Jun-15 15:46
Re: English Lesson 405 Thanos5150 27-Jun-15 16:33
Re: English Lesson 424 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 16:55
Re: English Lesson 445 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 20:25
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 413 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 04:31
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 328 Audrey 26-Jun-15 05:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 327 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 06:43
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 316 Audrey 27-Jun-15 01:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 378 Corpuscles 27-Jun-15 01:56
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 389 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 17:00
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 498 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 18:58
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 361 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 20:05
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 401 Origyptian 29-Jun-15 13:39
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 387 Jon Ellison 29-Jun-15 14:11
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 403 Audrey 30-Jun-15 03:01
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 385 Jon Ellison 30-Jun-15 13:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 374 DUNE 27-Jun-15 17:01
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 390 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 17:10
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 391 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-15 18:12
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 344 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 18:37
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 402 cladking 27-Jun-15 18:47
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 352 Ulrich 28-Jun-15 15:06
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 373 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 15:30
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 358 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 16:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 336 Audrey 28-Jun-15 17:39
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 374 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 18:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 419 Ulrich 29-Jun-15 19:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 444 Audrey 30-Jun-15 01:26
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 333 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 02:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 425 Origyptian 30-Jun-15 03:48
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 383 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 15:53
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 467 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 21:03
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 501 Thanos5150 30-Jun-15 04:12
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 355 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 19:11
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 394 Thanos5150 29-Jun-15 21:25


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