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Thanos5150 wrote:

> Origyptian:
Quote

> One of the ostraca fragments is a communication between
> the quarry and the procurator admitting that the column is
> ready for shipment but the quarry administrator doesn't know
> what quarry it's from. In another fragment the quarryman asks
> the procurator for "more iron" to presumably speed up getting a
> single column ready. What kind of quarry is this that isn't
> equipped to quarry the stones that are on order?
> One that quarries columns obviously. Yes, we in the modern
> world never make mistakes or need more material to complete a
> job. Come on man. But strange you would cite an ostraca that
> clearly refers to quarrying and columns yet still think this is
> not evidence? A broken record, but this make no sense. The
> ostraca speak extensively of the quarrying activities which as
> you unknowingly note the overwhelming majority date to the time
> of Hadrian which is also the most active period of using the
> stone from MC in the Roman Empire.


Note quite. I think you may be overreading. Here is the complete inscription, per Russell (P.212):
Quote

To Antonius Flavianus, prefect, from the foreman and the stonemasons, Sir, greetings. With the help of our Lord Sarapis and the Tyche of Claudianus and your Tyche we announce that we have finished one of the 25 foot columns on the 26th day of Hathyr. If you please, Sir, and with the accord of our master the procurator, if steel and charcoal be sent to us, we shall finish the other one faster, if we can work without hindrance. From the moment you send us (it, and if) all the infidels (will leave us in peace)...(we shall be able to finish it).
I presume the parenthetic phrases are speculation of the translator to replace unreadable inscriptions. There is no reference to quarrying any stone. In fact there is no reference to actually doing any work on a stone at all. "Finished" could simply mean it's packed up on the transporter and ready to roll, but could also mean trimming a pre-existing column to the procurator's current specifications. There is no specific indication of what they intended to use the "steel and charcoal" for -- it makes no mention of whether the "steel" should be chisels, axles, spokes, nails, tie-bands, etc. I'm wondering why he didn't specify what form of "steel" he needed.

And so we are left with the distinct possibility that the "steel and charcoal" may instead be intended simply as bribes to keep the "infidels" away so they can finish their work. To speculate alternative unreadable phrases: "From the moment you send us the bribes, all the infidels will leave us in peace...and we will be allowed to finish our work". After all, there were many reports of the locals causing repeated disruptions in the workflow, and it's certainly logical that the quarry would tend to resist giving away its own precious tools as bribes to keep the locals at bay or else they would soon run out of tools. The generic request for "steel and charcoal" might simply indicate that ANY form form of steel would suffice as a trinket to keep the infidels away. But wasn't M. Claudianus akin to a military operation with a so-called "fort" there that allegedly protected the quarry operation?

And regarding the source of the column:
Quote

You write, Sir, to tell you from which quarry. We do not know the name of the quarry, but it is the quarry far from praesidium, lying towards Porphyrites, which we have given the name 'Philoserapis'. When we were well arrived at the quarry...
And they were ready to ship the 2nd column 19 days later, but apparently it was either a broken/repaired column or the result of conjoining two pre-existing shorter columns to form one longer column which resulted in this inscription:
Quote

We have received your letter, Sir, in which you reproach us about the caurasia [broken stone?] because we have made then conterminous [fitted them together?]. However, as we (had learnt) from your letter that there was iron in the store, we used all the colour-mixing, like the people of old (taught us).

"Steel and charcoal"?
"Infidels"?
"Conterminous"?
"People of old"?

Fascinating material, these ostraca.



______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 808 JonnyMcA 25-Jun-15 20:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 346 Thanos5150 25-Jun-15 23:19
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 368 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 01:22
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 431 Audrey 26-Jun-15 02:00
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 380 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 02:52
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 372 MJT 26-Jun-15 17:34
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 360 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 17:57
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 409 MJT 26-Jun-15 19:22
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 358 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 04:04
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 337 Audrey 26-Jun-15 05:18
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 344 Jon Ellison 26-Jun-15 10:24
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 378 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 15:26
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 354 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 347 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 06:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 296 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 14:50
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 337 Audrey 27-Jun-15 02:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 314 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 04:49
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 360 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 02:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 360 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 07:06
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 353 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 15:06
Example 362 DScribr 26-Jun-15 18:05
Re: Example 300 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:04
Re: Example 310 cladking 26-Jun-15 19:21
Re: Example 323 Brian Patterson 26-Jun-15 19:32
Re: Example 398 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:43
Re: Example 328 DScribr 26-Jun-15 22:36
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 310 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 20:24
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 350 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 21:42
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 354 Corpuscles 27-Jun-15 00:19
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 333 Audrey 27-Jun-15 02:26
Same old same old..... 381 DScribr 26-Jun-15 22:48
Re: Same old same old..... 392 Thanos5150 27-Jun-15 05:16
Re: Same old same old..... 345 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 16:08
Re: Same old same old..... 369 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 21:18
Re: Same old same old..... 318 Corpuscles 28-Jun-15 00:10
Re: Same old same old..... 297 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 01:25
Re: Same old same old..... 367 Corpuscles 28-Jun-15 02:52
Re: Same old same old..... 330 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 01:35
Re: Same old same old..... 349 Audrey 28-Jun-15 00:47
Re: Same old same old..... 374 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 02:56
Re: Same old same old..... 327 Merrell 28-Jun-15 13:20
Only One World of True Believers? 338 cladking 28-Jun-15 15:23
Re: Same old same old..... 317 Thanos5150 28-Jun-15 03:27
Re: Same old same old..... 414 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 11:00
Re: Same old same old..... 318 Thanos5150 28-Jun-15 16:53
Re: Same old same old..... 351 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 17:25
Re: Same old same old..... 327 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 18:14
Why change??? 314 DScribr 30-Jun-15 22:19
Re: Why change??? 287 Jon Ellison 30-Jun-15 22:52
Re: Why change??? 354 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 04:27
Re: Why change??? 377 Corpuscles 01-Jul-15 06:11
Re: Why change??? 309 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 13:41
Re: Why change??? 302 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 14:08
Re: Why change??? 371 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 15:33
Re: Why change??? 312 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 15:38
Re: Why change??? 356 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 16:03
Re: Why change??? 367 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 16:21
Re: Why care about the facts??? 320 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:59
Re: Why care about the facts??? 338 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 20:13
Re: Why care about the facts??? 331 Jon Ellison 02-Jul-15 20:52
Mod Warning > Jon Ellison 359 lukehancock 03-Jul-15 11:20
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 383 DScribr 06-Jul-15 18:17
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 309 Corpuscles 07-Jul-15 02:26
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 345 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 03:26
Willful ignorance 398 DScribr 07-Jul-15 18:02
Re: Why care about the facts??? 371 Jon Ellison 02-Jul-15 22:49
Re: NO change of facts 330 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:54
Re: NO change of facts 358 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 21:55
Re: Why change??? 285 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:52
Re: Why change??? 372 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 21:54
"Seems to be..." 322 DScribr 06-Jul-15 18:06
Re: "Seems to be..." 315 Origyptian 06-Jul-15 19:03
Re: "Seems to be..." 248 DScribr 07-Jul-15 17:48
Re: "Seems to be..." 346 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 18:19
Re: "Seems to be..." 322 DScribr 07-Jul-15 18:31
Re: "Seems to be..." 350 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 18:35
Re: "Seems to be..." 327 Jon Ellison 07-Jul-15 20:27
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 335 DScribr 08-Jul-15 17:49
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 295 Origyptian 08-Jul-15 17:55
It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 312 DScribr 08-Jul-15 22:49
Re: It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 380 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 00:32
Re: It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 377 Origyptian 09-Jul-15 05:55
Same nonsense-different day... 336 DScribr 09-Jul-15 18:13
Re: Same nonsense-different day... 340 Origyptian 09-Jul-15 18:45
Re: Same nonsense-different day... 322 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 19:21
Re: Same nonsense-different day....A MUST READ for all Ori "Fans." 329 DScribr 10-Jul-15 19:29
Re: Same nonsense-different day....A MUST READ for all Ori "Fans." 410 Origyptian 10-Jul-15 21:02
Selective memory loss 443 DScribr 10-Jul-15 22:49
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 313 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 01:09
English Lesson 353 randompHactor 27-Jun-15 15:46
Re: English Lesson 350 Thanos5150 27-Jun-15 16:33
Re: English Lesson 367 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 16:55
Re: English Lesson 392 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 20:25
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 350 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 04:31
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 270 Audrey 26-Jun-15 05:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 289 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 06:43
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 276 Audrey 27-Jun-15 01:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 338 Corpuscles 27-Jun-15 01:56
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 335 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 17:00
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 446 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 18:58
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 307 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 20:05
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 346 Origyptian 29-Jun-15 13:39
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 335 Jon Ellison 29-Jun-15 14:11
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 342 Audrey 30-Jun-15 03:01
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 341 Jon Ellison 30-Jun-15 13:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 336 DUNE 27-Jun-15 17:01
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 344 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 17:10
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 345 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-15 18:12
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 311 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 18:37
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 344 cladking 27-Jun-15 18:47
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 304 Ulrich 28-Jun-15 15:06
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 309 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 15:30
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 322 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 16:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 290 Audrey 28-Jun-15 17:39
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 315 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 18:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 365 Ulrich 29-Jun-15 19:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 342 Audrey 30-Jun-15 01:26
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 303 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 02:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 388 Origyptian 30-Jun-15 03:48
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 341 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 15:53
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 399 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 21:03
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 438 Thanos5150 30-Jun-15 04:12
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 322 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 19:11
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 332 Thanos5150 29-Jun-15 21:25


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