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Thanos5150 wrote:

> Origyptian:
Quote

> One of the ostraca fragments is a communication between
> the quarry and the procurator admitting that the column is
> ready for shipment but the quarry administrator doesn't know
> what quarry it's from. In another fragment the quarryman asks
> the procurator for "more iron" to presumably speed up getting a
> single column ready. What kind of quarry is this that isn't
> equipped to quarry the stones that are on order?
> One that quarries columns obviously. Yes, we in the modern
> world never make mistakes or need more material to complete a
> job. Come on man. But strange you would cite an ostraca that
> clearly refers to quarrying and columns yet still think this is
> not evidence? A broken record, but this make no sense. The
> ostraca speak extensively of the quarrying activities which as
> you unknowingly note the overwhelming majority date to the time
> of Hadrian which is also the most active period of using the
> stone from MC in the Roman Empire.


Note quite. I think you may be overreading. Here is the complete inscription, per Russell (P.212):
Quote

To Antonius Flavianus, prefect, from the foreman and the stonemasons, Sir, greetings. With the help of our Lord Sarapis and the Tyche of Claudianus and your Tyche we announce that we have finished one of the 25 foot columns on the 26th day of Hathyr. If you please, Sir, and with the accord of our master the procurator, if steel and charcoal be sent to us, we shall finish the other one faster, if we can work without hindrance. From the moment you send us (it, and if) all the infidels (will leave us in peace)...(we shall be able to finish it).
I presume the parenthetic phrases are speculation of the translator to replace unreadable inscriptions. There is no reference to quarrying any stone. In fact there is no reference to actually doing any work on a stone at all. "Finished" could simply mean it's packed up on the transporter and ready to roll, but could also mean trimming a pre-existing column to the procurator's current specifications. There is no specific indication of what they intended to use the "steel and charcoal" for -- it makes no mention of whether the "steel" should be chisels, axles, spokes, nails, tie-bands, etc. I'm wondering why he didn't specify what form of "steel" he needed.

And so we are left with the distinct possibility that the "steel and charcoal" may instead be intended simply as bribes to keep the "infidels" away so they can finish their work. To speculate alternative unreadable phrases: "From the moment you send us the bribes, all the infidels will leave us in peace...and we will be allowed to finish our work". After all, there were many reports of the locals causing repeated disruptions in the workflow, and it's certainly logical that the quarry would tend to resist giving away its own precious tools as bribes to keep the locals at bay or else they would soon run out of tools. The generic request for "steel and charcoal" might simply indicate that ANY form form of steel would suffice as a trinket to keep the infidels away. But wasn't M. Claudianus akin to a military operation with a so-called "fort" there that allegedly protected the quarry operation?

And regarding the source of the column:
Quote

You write, Sir, to tell you from which quarry. We do not know the name of the quarry, but it is the quarry far from praesidium, lying towards Porphyrites, which we have given the name 'Philoserapis'. When we were well arrived at the quarry...
And they were ready to ship the 2nd column 19 days later, but apparently it was either a broken/repaired column or the result of conjoining two pre-existing shorter columns to form one longer column which resulted in this inscription:
Quote

We have received your letter, Sir, in which you reproach us about the caurasia [broken stone?] because we have made then conterminous [fitted them together?]. However, as we (had learnt) from your letter that there was iron in the store, we used all the colour-mixing, like the people of old (taught us).

"Steel and charcoal"?
"Infidels"?
"Conterminous"?
"People of old"?

Fascinating material, these ostraca.



______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 1009 JonnyMcA 25-Jun-15 20:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 439 Thanos5150 25-Jun-15 23:19
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 469 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 01:22
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 528 Audrey 26-Jun-15 02:00
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 451 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 02:52
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 451 MJT 26-Jun-15 17:34
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 435 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 17:57
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 508 MJT 26-Jun-15 19:22
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 448 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 04:04
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 434 Audrey 26-Jun-15 05:18
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 440 Jon Ellison 26-Jun-15 10:24
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 467 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 15:26
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 444 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 442 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 06:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 372 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 14:50
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 406 Audrey 27-Jun-15 02:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 388 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 04:49
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 448 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 02:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 478 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 07:06
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 441 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 15:06
Example 470 DScribr 26-Jun-15 18:05
Re: Example 405 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:04
Re: Example 386 cladking 26-Jun-15 19:21
Re: Example 424 Brian Patterson 26-Jun-15 19:32
Re: Example 475 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:43
Re: Example 427 DScribr 26-Jun-15 22:36
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 411 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 20:24
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 450 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 21:42
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 441 Corpuscles 27-Jun-15 00:19
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 445 Audrey 27-Jun-15 02:26
Same old same old..... 500 DScribr 26-Jun-15 22:48
Re: Same old same old..... 472 Thanos5150 27-Jun-15 05:16
Re: Same old same old..... 437 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 16:08
Re: Same old same old..... 449 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 21:18
Re: Same old same old..... 397 Corpuscles 28-Jun-15 00:10
Re: Same old same old..... 367 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 01:25
Re: Same old same old..... 456 Corpuscles 28-Jun-15 02:52
Re: Same old same old..... 428 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 01:35
Re: Same old same old..... 444 Audrey 28-Jun-15 00:47
Re: Same old same old..... 486 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 02:56
Re: Same old same old..... 418 Merrell 28-Jun-15 13:20
Only One World of True Believers? 446 cladking 28-Jun-15 15:23
Re: Same old same old..... 405 Thanos5150 28-Jun-15 03:27
Re: Same old same old..... 503 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 11:00
Re: Same old same old..... 381 Thanos5150 28-Jun-15 16:53
Re: Same old same old..... 483 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 17:25
Re: Same old same old..... 411 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 18:14
Why change??? 397 DScribr 30-Jun-15 22:19
Re: Why change??? 402 Jon Ellison 30-Jun-15 22:52
Re: Why change??? 434 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 04:27
Re: Why change??? 468 Corpuscles 01-Jul-15 06:11
Re: Why change??? 416 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 13:41
Re: Why change??? 408 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 14:08
Re: Why change??? 475 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 15:33
Re: Why change??? 409 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 15:38
Re: Why change??? 481 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 16:03
Re: Why change??? 442 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 16:21
Re: Why care about the facts??? 395 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:59
Re: Why care about the facts??? 407 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 20:13
Re: Why care about the facts??? 431 Jon Ellison 02-Jul-15 20:52
Mod Warning > Jon Ellison 438 lukehancock 03-Jul-15 11:20
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 467 DScribr 06-Jul-15 18:17
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 438 Corpuscles 07-Jul-15 02:26
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 440 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 03:26
Willful ignorance 484 DScribr 07-Jul-15 18:02
Re: Why care about the facts??? 439 Jon Ellison 02-Jul-15 22:49
Re: NO change of facts 413 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:54
Re: NO change of facts 433 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 21:55
Re: Why change??? 377 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:52
Re: Why change??? 480 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 21:54
"Seems to be..." 401 DScribr 06-Jul-15 18:06
Re: "Seems to be..." 411 Origyptian 06-Jul-15 19:03
Re: "Seems to be..." 322 DScribr 07-Jul-15 17:48
Re: "Seems to be..." 423 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 18:19
Re: "Seems to be..." 410 DScribr 07-Jul-15 18:31
Re: "Seems to be..." 428 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 18:35
Re: "Seems to be..." 429 Jon Ellison 07-Jul-15 20:27
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 439 DScribr 08-Jul-15 17:49
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 378 Origyptian 08-Jul-15 17:55
It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 404 DScribr 08-Jul-15 22:49
Re: It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 480 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 00:32
Re: It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 451 Origyptian 09-Jul-15 05:55
Same nonsense-different day... 472 DScribr 09-Jul-15 18:13
Re: Same nonsense-different day... 473 Origyptian 09-Jul-15 18:45
Re: Same nonsense-different day... 434 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 19:21
Re: Same nonsense-different day....A MUST READ for all Ori "Fans." 403 DScribr 10-Jul-15 19:29
Re: Same nonsense-different day....A MUST READ for all Ori "Fans." 527 Origyptian 10-Jul-15 21:02
Selective memory loss 549 DScribr 10-Jul-15 22:49
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 411 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 01:09
English Lesson 428 randompHactor 27-Jun-15 15:46
Re: English Lesson 451 Thanos5150 27-Jun-15 16:33
Re: English Lesson 463 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 16:55
Re: English Lesson 491 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 20:25
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 450 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 04:31
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 370 Audrey 26-Jun-15 05:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 371 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 06:43
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 361 Audrey 27-Jun-15 01:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 421 Corpuscles 27-Jun-15 01:56
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 460 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 17:00
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 543 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 18:58
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 426 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 20:05
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 444 Origyptian 29-Jun-15 13:39
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 431 Jon Ellison 29-Jun-15 14:11
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 443 Audrey 30-Jun-15 03:01
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 433 Jon Ellison 30-Jun-15 13:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 408 DUNE 27-Jun-15 17:01
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 426 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 17:10
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 430 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-15 18:12
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 379 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 18:37
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 443 cladking 27-Jun-15 18:47
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 448 Ulrich 28-Jun-15 15:06
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 414 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 15:30
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 394 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 16:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 372 Audrey 28-Jun-15 17:39
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 416 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 18:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 462 Ulrich 29-Jun-15 19:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 488 Audrey 30-Jun-15 01:26
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 375 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 02:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 468 Origyptian 30-Jun-15 03:48
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 425 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 15:53
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 517 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 21:03
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 547 Thanos5150 30-Jun-15 04:12
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 395 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 19:11
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 434 Thanos5150 29-Jun-15 21:25


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