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Thanos5150 wrote:

> Origyptian:
Quote

> One of the ostraca fragments is a communication between
> the quarry and the procurator admitting that the column is
> ready for shipment but the quarry administrator doesn't know
> what quarry it's from. In another fragment the quarryman asks
> the procurator for "more iron" to presumably speed up getting a
> single column ready. What kind of quarry is this that isn't
> equipped to quarry the stones that are on order?
> One that quarries columns obviously. Yes, we in the modern
> world never make mistakes or need more material to complete a
> job. Come on man. But strange you would cite an ostraca that
> clearly refers to quarrying and columns yet still think this is
> not evidence? A broken record, but this make no sense. The
> ostraca speak extensively of the quarrying activities which as
> you unknowingly note the overwhelming majority date to the time
> of Hadrian which is also the most active period of using the
> stone from MC in the Roman Empire.


Note quite. I think you may be overreading. Here is the complete inscription, per Russell (P.212):
Quote

To Antonius Flavianus, prefect, from the foreman and the stonemasons, Sir, greetings. With the help of our Lord Sarapis and the Tyche of Claudianus and your Tyche we announce that we have finished one of the 25 foot columns on the 26th day of Hathyr. If you please, Sir, and with the accord of our master the procurator, if steel and charcoal be sent to us, we shall finish the other one faster, if we can work without hindrance. From the moment you send us (it, and if) all the infidels (will leave us in peace)...(we shall be able to finish it).
I presume the parenthetic phrases are speculation of the translator to replace unreadable inscriptions. There is no reference to quarrying any stone. In fact there is no reference to actually doing any work on a stone at all. "Finished" could simply mean it's packed up on the transporter and ready to roll, but could also mean trimming a pre-existing column to the procurator's current specifications. There is no specific indication of what they intended to use the "steel and charcoal" for -- it makes no mention of whether the "steel" should be chisels, axles, spokes, nails, tie-bands, etc. I'm wondering why he didn't specify what form of "steel" he needed.

And so we are left with the distinct possibility that the "steel and charcoal" may instead be intended simply as bribes to keep the "infidels" away so they can finish their work. To speculate alternative unreadable phrases: "From the moment you send us the bribes, all the infidels will leave us in peace...and we will be allowed to finish our work". After all, there were many reports of the locals causing repeated disruptions in the workflow, and it's certainly logical that the quarry would tend to resist giving away its own precious tools as bribes to keep the locals at bay or else they would soon run out of tools. The generic request for "steel and charcoal" might simply indicate that ANY form form of steel would suffice as a trinket to keep the infidels away. But wasn't M. Claudianus akin to a military operation with a so-called "fort" there that allegedly protected the quarry operation?

And regarding the source of the column:
Quote

You write, Sir, to tell you from which quarry. We do not know the name of the quarry, but it is the quarry far from praesidium, lying towards Porphyrites, which we have given the name 'Philoserapis'. When we were well arrived at the quarry...
And they were ready to ship the 2nd column 19 days later, but apparently it was either a broken/repaired column or the result of conjoining two pre-existing shorter columns to form one longer column which resulted in this inscription:
Quote

We have received your letter, Sir, in which you reproach us about the caurasia [broken stone?] because we have made then conterminous [fitted them together?]. However, as we (had learnt) from your letter that there was iron in the store, we used all the colour-mixing, like the people of old (taught us).

"Steel and charcoal"?
"Infidels"?
"Conterminous"?
"People of old"?

Fascinating material, these ostraca.



______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 898 JonnyMcA 25-Jun-15 20:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 380 Thanos5150 25-Jun-15 23:19
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 401 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 01:22
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 469 Audrey 26-Jun-15 02:00
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 402 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 02:52
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 403 MJT 26-Jun-15 17:34
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 385 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 17:57
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 455 MJT 26-Jun-15 19:22
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 394 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 04:04
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 383 Audrey 26-Jun-15 05:18
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 384 Jon Ellison 26-Jun-15 10:24
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 413 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 15:26
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 387 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 391 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 06:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 317 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 14:50
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 358 Audrey 27-Jun-15 02:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 339 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 04:49
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 385 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 02:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 403 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 07:06
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 389 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 15:06
Example 413 DScribr 26-Jun-15 18:05
Re: Example 354 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:04
Re: Example 332 cladking 26-Jun-15 19:21
Re: Example 366 Brian Patterson 26-Jun-15 19:32
Re: Example 419 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:43
Re: Example 370 DScribr 26-Jun-15 22:36
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 337 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 20:24
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 395 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 21:42
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 386 Corpuscles 27-Jun-15 00:19
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 373 Audrey 27-Jun-15 02:26
Same old same old..... 425 DScribr 26-Jun-15 22:48
Re: Same old same old..... 416 Thanos5150 27-Jun-15 05:16
Re: Same old same old..... 385 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 16:08
Re: Same old same old..... 391 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 21:18
Re: Same old same old..... 346 Corpuscles 28-Jun-15 00:10
Re: Same old same old..... 321 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 01:25
Re: Same old same old..... 404 Corpuscles 28-Jun-15 02:52
Re: Same old same old..... 377 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 01:35
Re: Same old same old..... 400 Audrey 28-Jun-15 00:47
Re: Same old same old..... 431 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 02:56
Re: Same old same old..... 369 Merrell 28-Jun-15 13:20
Only One World of True Believers? 373 cladking 28-Jun-15 15:23
Re: Same old same old..... 350 Thanos5150 28-Jun-15 03:27
Re: Same old same old..... 453 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 11:00
Re: Same old same old..... 337 Thanos5150 28-Jun-15 16:53
Re: Same old same old..... 402 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 17:25
Re: Same old same old..... 362 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 18:14
Why change??? 345 DScribr 30-Jun-15 22:19
Re: Why change??? 344 Jon Ellison 30-Jun-15 22:52
Re: Why change??? 377 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 04:27
Re: Why change??? 407 Corpuscles 01-Jul-15 06:11
Re: Why change??? 335 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 13:41
Re: Why change??? 350 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 14:08
Re: Why change??? 422 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 15:33
Re: Why change??? 349 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 15:38
Re: Why change??? 397 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 16:03
Re: Why change??? 390 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 16:21
Re: Why care about the facts??? 344 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:59
Re: Why care about the facts??? 362 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 20:13
Re: Why care about the facts??? 380 Jon Ellison 02-Jul-15 20:52
Mod Warning > Jon Ellison 382 lukehancock 03-Jul-15 11:20
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 407 DScribr 06-Jul-15 18:17
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 350 Corpuscles 07-Jul-15 02:26
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 376 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 03:26
Willful ignorance 433 DScribr 07-Jul-15 18:02
Re: Why care about the facts??? 392 Jon Ellison 02-Jul-15 22:49
Re: NO change of facts 356 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:54
Re: NO change of facts 380 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 21:55
Re: Why change??? 315 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:52
Re: Why change??? 419 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 21:54
"Seems to be..." 345 DScribr 06-Jul-15 18:06
Re: "Seems to be..." 345 Origyptian 06-Jul-15 19:03
Re: "Seems to be..." 270 DScribr 07-Jul-15 17:48
Re: "Seems to be..." 374 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 18:19
Re: "Seems to be..." 358 DScribr 07-Jul-15 18:31
Re: "Seems to be..." 372 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 18:35
Re: "Seems to be..." 363 Jon Ellison 07-Jul-15 20:27
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 380 DScribr 08-Jul-15 17:49
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 324 Origyptian 08-Jul-15 17:55
It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 357 DScribr 08-Jul-15 22:49
Re: It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 411 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 00:32
Re: It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 400 Origyptian 09-Jul-15 05:55
Same nonsense-different day... 416 DScribr 09-Jul-15 18:13
Re: Same nonsense-different day... 385 Origyptian 09-Jul-15 18:45
Re: Same nonsense-different day... 374 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 19:21
Re: Same nonsense-different day....A MUST READ for all Ori "Fans." 350 DScribr 10-Jul-15 19:29
Re: Same nonsense-different day....A MUST READ for all Ori "Fans." 473 Origyptian 10-Jul-15 21:02
Selective memory loss 467 DScribr 10-Jul-15 22:49
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 358 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 01:09
English Lesson 379 randompHactor 27-Jun-15 15:46
Re: English Lesson 384 Thanos5150 27-Jun-15 16:33
Re: English Lesson 411 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 16:55
Re: English Lesson 424 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 20:25
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 401 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 04:31
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 306 Audrey 26-Jun-15 05:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 313 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 06:43
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 303 Audrey 27-Jun-15 01:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 364 Corpuscles 27-Jun-15 01:56
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 376 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 17:00
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 482 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 18:58
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 337 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 20:05
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 370 Origyptian 29-Jun-15 13:39
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 373 Jon Ellison 29-Jun-15 14:11
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 386 Audrey 30-Jun-15 03:01
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 372 Jon Ellison 30-Jun-15 13:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 360 DUNE 27-Jun-15 17:01
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 378 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 17:10
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 375 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-15 18:12
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 332 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 18:37
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 376 cladking 27-Jun-15 18:47
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 331 Ulrich 28-Jun-15 15:06
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 359 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 15:30
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 344 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 16:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 316 Audrey 28-Jun-15 17:39
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 349 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 18:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 395 Ulrich 29-Jun-15 19:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 405 Audrey 30-Jun-15 01:26
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 321 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 02:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 408 Origyptian 30-Jun-15 03:48
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 370 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 15:53
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 449 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 21:03
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 486 Thanos5150 30-Jun-15 04:12
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 343 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 19:11
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 382 Thanos5150 29-Jun-15 21:25


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