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Thanos5150 wrote:

> Origyptian:
Quote

> One of the ostraca fragments is a communication between
> the quarry and the procurator admitting that the column is
> ready for shipment but the quarry administrator doesn't know
> what quarry it's from. In another fragment the quarryman asks
> the procurator for "more iron" to presumably speed up getting a
> single column ready. What kind of quarry is this that isn't
> equipped to quarry the stones that are on order?
> One that quarries columns obviously. Yes, we in the modern
> world never make mistakes or need more material to complete a
> job. Come on man. But strange you would cite an ostraca that
> clearly refers to quarrying and columns yet still think this is
> not evidence? A broken record, but this make no sense. The
> ostraca speak extensively of the quarrying activities which as
> you unknowingly note the overwhelming majority date to the time
> of Hadrian which is also the most active period of using the
> stone from MC in the Roman Empire.


Note quite. I think you may be overreading. Here is the complete inscription, per Russell (P.212):
Quote

To Antonius Flavianus, prefect, from the foreman and the stonemasons, Sir, greetings. With the help of our Lord Sarapis and the Tyche of Claudianus and your Tyche we announce that we have finished one of the 25 foot columns on the 26th day of Hathyr. If you please, Sir, and with the accord of our master the procurator, if steel and charcoal be sent to us, we shall finish the other one faster, if we can work without hindrance. From the moment you send us (it, and if) all the infidels (will leave us in peace)...(we shall be able to finish it).
I presume the parenthetic phrases are speculation of the translator to replace unreadable inscriptions. There is no reference to quarrying any stone. In fact there is no reference to actually doing any work on a stone at all. "Finished" could simply mean it's packed up on the transporter and ready to roll, but could also mean trimming a pre-existing column to the procurator's current specifications. There is no specific indication of what they intended to use the "steel and charcoal" for -- it makes no mention of whether the "steel" should be chisels, axles, spokes, nails, tie-bands, etc. I'm wondering why he didn't specify what form of "steel" he needed.

And so we are left with the distinct possibility that the "steel and charcoal" may instead be intended simply as bribes to keep the "infidels" away so they can finish their work. To speculate alternative unreadable phrases: "From the moment you send us the bribes, all the infidels will leave us in peace...and we will be allowed to finish our work". After all, there were many reports of the locals causing repeated disruptions in the workflow, and it's certainly logical that the quarry would tend to resist giving away its own precious tools as bribes to keep the locals at bay or else they would soon run out of tools. The generic request for "steel and charcoal" might simply indicate that ANY form form of steel would suffice as a trinket to keep the infidels away. But wasn't M. Claudianus akin to a military operation with a so-called "fort" there that allegedly protected the quarry operation?

And regarding the source of the column:
Quote

You write, Sir, to tell you from which quarry. We do not know the name of the quarry, but it is the quarry far from praesidium, lying towards Porphyrites, which we have given the name 'Philoserapis'. When we were well arrived at the quarry...
And they were ready to ship the 2nd column 19 days later, but apparently it was either a broken/repaired column or the result of conjoining two pre-existing shorter columns to form one longer column which resulted in this inscription:
Quote

We have received your letter, Sir, in which you reproach us about the caurasia [broken stone?] because we have made then conterminous [fitted them together?]. However, as we (had learnt) from your letter that there was iron in the store, we used all the colour-mixing, like the people of old (taught us).

"Steel and charcoal"?
"Infidels"?
"Conterminous"?
"People of old"?

Fascinating material, these ostraca.



______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 868 JonnyMcA 25-Jun-15 20:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 362 Thanos5150 25-Jun-15 23:19
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 383 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 01:22
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 456 Audrey 26-Jun-15 02:00
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 393 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 02:52
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 394 MJT 26-Jun-15 17:34
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 377 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 17:57
Re: Mons Claudianus Tools 441 MJT 26-Jun-15 19:22
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 376 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 04:04
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 365 Audrey 26-Jun-15 05:18
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 369 Jon Ellison 26-Jun-15 10:24
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 396 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 15:26
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 372 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 381 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 06:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 309 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 14:50
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 350 Audrey 27-Jun-15 02:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 330 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 04:49
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 374 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 02:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 381 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 07:06
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 370 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 15:06
Example 395 DScribr 26-Jun-15 18:05
Re: Example 331 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:04
Re: Example 326 cladking 26-Jun-15 19:21
Re: Example 346 Brian Patterson 26-Jun-15 19:32
Re: Example 412 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 19:43
Re: Example 352 DScribr 26-Jun-15 22:36
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 328 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 20:24
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 368 Origyptian 26-Jun-15 21:42
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 373 Corpuscles 27-Jun-15 00:19
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 354 Audrey 27-Jun-15 02:26
Same old same old..... 403 DScribr 26-Jun-15 22:48
Re: Same old same old..... 406 Thanos5150 27-Jun-15 05:16
Re: Same old same old..... 367 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 16:08
Re: Same old same old..... 383 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 21:18
Re: Same old same old..... 337 Corpuscles 28-Jun-15 00:10
Re: Same old same old..... 313 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 01:25
Re: Same old same old..... 389 Corpuscles 28-Jun-15 02:52
Re: Same old same old..... 361 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 01:35
Re: Same old same old..... 385 Audrey 28-Jun-15 00:47
Re: Same old same old..... 414 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 02:56
Re: Same old same old..... 357 Merrell 28-Jun-15 13:20
Only One World of True Believers? 357 cladking 28-Jun-15 15:23
Re: Same old same old..... 333 Thanos5150 28-Jun-15 03:27
Re: Same old same old..... 439 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 11:00
Re: Same old same old..... 329 Thanos5150 28-Jun-15 16:53
Re: Same old same old..... 381 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 17:25
Re: Same old same old..... 344 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 18:14
Why change??? 333 DScribr 30-Jun-15 22:19
Re: Why change??? 321 Jon Ellison 30-Jun-15 22:52
Re: Why change??? 368 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 04:27
Re: Why change??? 394 Corpuscles 01-Jul-15 06:11
Re: Why change??? 322 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 13:41
Re: Why change??? 330 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 14:08
Re: Why change??? 405 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 15:33
Re: Why change??? 333 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 15:38
Re: Why change??? 389 Jon Ellison 01-Jul-15 16:03
Re: Why change??? 382 Origyptian 01-Jul-15 16:21
Re: Why care about the facts??? 335 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:59
Re: Why care about the facts??? 353 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 20:13
Re: Why care about the facts??? 366 Jon Ellison 02-Jul-15 20:52
Mod Warning > Jon Ellison 372 lukehancock 03-Jul-15 11:20
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 397 DScribr 06-Jul-15 18:17
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 332 Corpuscles 07-Jul-15 02:26
Re: Why should 'we' care about the facts??? 361 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 03:26
Willful ignorance 420 DScribr 07-Jul-15 18:02
Re: Why care about the facts??? 383 Jon Ellison 02-Jul-15 22:49
Re: NO change of facts 344 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:54
Re: NO change of facts 372 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 21:55
Re: Why change??? 306 DScribr 02-Jul-15 19:52
Re: Why change??? 396 Origyptian 02-Jul-15 21:54
"Seems to be..." 335 DScribr 06-Jul-15 18:06
Re: "Seems to be..." 328 Origyptian 06-Jul-15 19:03
Re: "Seems to be..." 262 DScribr 07-Jul-15 17:48
Re: "Seems to be..." 365 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 18:19
Re: "Seems to be..." 344 DScribr 07-Jul-15 18:31
Re: "Seems to be..." 364 Origyptian 07-Jul-15 18:35
Re: "Seems to be..." 345 Jon Ellison 07-Jul-15 20:27
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 366 DScribr 08-Jul-15 17:49
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 312 Origyptian 08-Jul-15 17:55
It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 335 DScribr 08-Jul-15 22:49
Re: It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 394 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 00:32
Re: It IS a Dbl-standard!!! 391 Origyptian 09-Jul-15 05:55
Same nonsense-different day... 380 DScribr 09-Jul-15 18:13
Re: Same nonsense-different day... 361 Origyptian 09-Jul-15 18:45
Re: Same nonsense-different day... 352 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 19:21
Re: Same nonsense-different day....A MUST READ for all Ori "Fans." 342 DScribr 10-Jul-15 19:29
Re: Same nonsense-different day....A MUST READ for all Ori "Fans." 447 Origyptian 10-Jul-15 21:02
Selective memory loss 458 DScribr 10-Jul-15 22:49
Re: Seems to be a Dbl-standard 344 Jon Ellison 09-Jul-15 01:09
English Lesson 368 randompHactor 27-Jun-15 15:46
Re: English Lesson 367 Thanos5150 27-Jun-15 16:33
Re: English Lesson 397 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 16:55
Re: English Lesson 408 Origyptian 27-Jun-15 20:25
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 375 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 04:31
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 291 Audrey 26-Jun-15 05:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 304 Corpuscles 26-Jun-15 06:43
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 296 Audrey 27-Jun-15 01:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 356 Corpuscles 27-Jun-15 01:56
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 366 Thanos5150 26-Jun-15 17:00
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 461 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 18:58
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 327 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 20:05
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 361 Origyptian 29-Jun-15 13:39
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 360 Jon Ellison 29-Jun-15 14:11
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 365 Audrey 30-Jun-15 03:01
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 365 Jon Ellison 30-Jun-15 13:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 350 DUNE 27-Jun-15 17:01
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 366 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 17:10
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 366 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-15 18:12
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 323 Jon Ellison 27-Jun-15 18:37
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 361 cladking 27-Jun-15 18:47
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 319 Ulrich 28-Jun-15 15:06
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 345 Origyptian 28-Jun-15 15:30
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 334 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 16:33
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 305 Audrey 28-Jun-15 17:39
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 332 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 18:23
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 378 Ulrich 29-Jun-15 19:20
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 379 Audrey 30-Jun-15 01:26
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 314 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 02:28
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 400 Origyptian 30-Jun-15 03:48
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 362 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 15:53
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 431 Ulrich 30-Jun-15 21:03
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 465 Thanos5150 30-Jun-15 04:12
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 336 Jon Ellison 28-Jun-15 19:11
Re: Giza Pyramids: Order of Construction part 2 364 Thanos5150 29-Jun-15 21:25


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