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To continue the debate in the first part of this discussion...


Thanos5150 wrote:

> Hopefully now this stupid conversation can be over.
>
> *Sigh*. And to the comments above about what the column is made
> of, not to mention the several dozen other quarried objects
> including other columns and the quarry itself, it is not "red
> marble", it granodiorite, a bother of granite, often in laymen
> terms referred to for convenience as granite. Jeezus.


I'm not "hoping", I'm looking for evidence, and so far I've not seen anything that compelling to support the contemporaneous quarry narrative. I simply see Hadrian instructing his team to retrieve granite columns from Mons Claudianus. But did the "quarrymen" actually quarry raw stone from bedrock, or were they sent there to retrieve pre-fabbed columns from an earlier establishment so that Hadrian can repurpose them for the Pantheon? The fact that we see columns in those "quarries" already shaped down to a polished finished indicates that they were used in structures in that location and were not originally quarried for use elsewhere.

Are there any partially shaped columns in those "quarries"? Something that resembles the precursor of the finished product we see lying around in the debris there? I see perfectly shaped and finished columns at the quarry, which is NOT what you would expect to find at an abandoned quarry. Rather, there is too much risk in damaging such finished columns during the land transportation (100km to the port) and across the Sea. Why would construction managers finish the column at the quarry instead of transporting it to a staging area near the construction site before shaping it down to its more delicate surface finish? There's even one column weighing 207 tons with a crack that's been repaired with iron staples! Are we to believe that the quarrymen believed that a Roman emperor would accept a cracked column that was repaired with dovetail staples staples as a "finished product" in one of his buildings?

As Corpuscles noted elsewhere, note the damage to that one red column lying there in the Mons quarry (regardless whether it's marble or granodiorite). If it can get that damaged while just lying there still in the quarry, how could it not risk getting damaged during the 100km transport to the port where it is then packed on a ship to make the trip across the Sea to Italy? Remember, these things weighed 50-60 tons. They would require a LOT of handling with various cranes, trucks, barges, tie-downs, etc., all of which would introduce risk to the finished surface.

It's interesting that the remaining columns in the quarry are all damaged. Consider the possibility that if that site had been established with its own buildings, and the Roman "quarrymen" were sent to acquire those pre-existing columns (perhaps the same way the casing stones on G1 were "quarried"), then it makes sense that the Romans would leave the damaged columns behind. What does NOT make sense is that the quarrymen would shape and smoothly finish each column while it was still in the quarry, thereby risking damage to the finished surface at any point during the extensive transportation process. It certainly doesn't make sense that the Romans would go through the trouble to repair a cracked column with surface staples, and then just leave it there.

Again, Mons Claudianus and perhaps other so-called "quarries" in Egypt that were used as a resource by the Romans, contain evidence that they, similar to the megaliths at Baalbek, constituted an established ancient settlement which was pilfered for its stonework by a later civilization.

The claim that these sites were quarried by the Romans for raw bedrock granite to make columns in the 1st millennium is not supported by compelling physical evidence. In fact, the physical evidence contradicts that notion and, instead, indicates those sites were once established in their own right in more ancient times and the stonework was repurposed for use in buildings in other locations.

Regarding how those things were allegedly transported, here is what Sidebotham, et al. have to offer:
Quote

We assume that these monolithic monstrosities would not have been quarried in the first place if some means of transporting them to the Nile were not available. We can only Imagine the size and appearance of the vehicles, the number of draft animals and people used to haul these giant blocks across the desert to the Nile.
This is hardly a compelling fact-based argument.

The authors also refer to the "surprisingly well-preserved temple and its elaborate inscription", suggesting it may be far younger than the rest of the site.

The reference to 9,200 ostraca fragments is reminiscent of scattered magnetic letters on a refrigerator from which just about any imaginable message could be constructed.

The site contains a fort, school, temple, baths, and the ostraca seems to "detail many aspects of the lives of the men, women, and children who made Mons Claudianus their home". How does this provide evidence that the site was an industrial outpost quarry and not a self-sufficient settlement? Is there a description of the actual quarrying process so that we would have insight into whether Hadrian was simply ordering a salvage operation?

When I read Sidebotham, it reminds me of Protzen trying to explain how Inca primitives made air tight seams between their andesite blocks, or Stocks trying to explain the stonework, or Reisner trying to make something out of G7000x, or Engelbach's logical contortions with the Stele of Khufu, or Tallet trying to convince us that Wadi el-Jarf was a link in the chain to build G1. The main problem with all of these investigators is that they lack strong physical evidence to support their conclusions.



Post Edited (16-Jun-15 00:16)

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Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 1016 JonnyMcA 15-Jun-15 14:47
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 220 Starbinder 15-Jun-15 16:13
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 238 Casimir THth 15-Jun-15 22:19
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 270 DUNE 15-Jun-15 17:21
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 240 Skatha 15-Jun-15 19:43
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 244 MJT 15-Jun-15 20:27
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 220 Jon Ellison 15-Jun-15 20:34
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 248 DUNE 15-Jun-15 21:13
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 237 MJT 15-Jun-15 21:51
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 265 DUNE 15-Jun-15 22:23
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 256 molder 16-Jun-15 00:53
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 230 Jon Ellison 16-Jun-15 01:02
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 201 molder 17-Jun-15 00:47
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 333 Liddz 21-Apr-17 15:47
Mod Note > Duplicate Posts 345 Dr. Troglodyte 21-Apr-17 18:58
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 261 MJT 17-Jun-15 15:23
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 207 Origyptian 17-Jun-15 15:45
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 238 MJT 17-Jun-15 16:40
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 244 Origyptian 17-Jun-15 19:48
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 252 MJT 17-Jun-15 20:46
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 201 DUNE 17-Jun-15 17:10
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 211 MJT 17-Jun-15 20:23
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 249 Sirfiroth 17-Jun-15 21:20
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 239 Origyptian 17-Jun-15 21:38
Re: Tonga giants - molder 252 Thunderbird 15-Jun-15 22:53
Re: Giants Oceania 250 Thunderbird 16-Jun-15 15:51
Re: Giants Oceania 258 Casimir THth 16-Jun-15 20:41
Re: Giants Oceania 238 Thunderbird 18-Jun-15 02:35
Re: "Stupid Discussion" is NOT over yet... 237 Origyptian 15-Jun-15 23:35
Re: "Stupid Discussion" is NOT over yet... 248 Corpuscles 16-Jun-15 01:08
Re: "Stupid Discussion" is NOT over yet... 265 Origyptian 16-Jun-15 02:01
Evidence for the lost civ. Original post: 257 Casimir THth 17-Jun-15 15:48
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 276 DUNE 17-Jun-15 21:26
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 250 Sirfiroth 17-Jun-15 21:58
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 226 DUNE 17-Jun-15 22:10
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 150 MJT 17-Jun-15 22:53
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 140 Sirfiroth 17-Jun-15 23:12
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 213 DUNE 17-Jun-15 23:33
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 248 molder 17-Jun-15 22:30
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 243 MJT 17-Jun-15 22:44
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 227 molder 18-Jun-15 03:22
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 255 MJT 18-Jun-15 10:20
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 225 molder 18-Jun-15 10:57
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 233 Origyptian 18-Jun-15 20:05
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 242 MJT 18-Jun-15 23:51
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 155 Jon Ellison 17-Jun-15 22:37
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 232 DUNE 17-Jun-15 23:02
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 184 Jon Ellison 18-Jun-15 00:14
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 230 MJT 17-Jun-15 22:41
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 208 DUNE 17-Jun-15 22:56
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 199 MJT 17-Jun-15 23:11
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 211 MJT 18-Jun-15 00:28
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 177 Sirfiroth 18-Jun-15 00:50
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 223 DUNE 18-Jun-15 13:00
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 238 MJT 18-Jun-15 14:42
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 192 molder 19-Jun-15 00:47
Mod note to all posters on this thread 214 Loki74 20-Jun-15 17:51
Re: Evidence for the lost civilisation ! Part 2 397 Romulus the 2nd 20-Jun-15 22:51


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