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Scott Creighton wrote:

> SC: There is no "might" about it. From Vyse's private journal:

Quote

"Cartouches in tomb to the W.[est] of first pyramid are different than Suphis" R. W. Howard Vyse
From your iffy transcription of a caption in the journal, actually:



Look at the strings which you’ve transcribed as “to the” and “than” respectively. They’re very similar. More likely this: “Cartouches in Tomb to the W. of Great Pyramid are different to the Suphis” or, glossing the ellipsis, “Cartouches in Tomb to the W. of Great Pyramid are different to the [cartouche of] Suphis”.

What does this tell us about what Vyse knew a day, or a week, or a month, before he wrote the caption? Does the name “Suphis” appear frequently in the journal? Do we find it earlier in the journal? If not, what does this tell us about Vyse’s supposed prior knowledge of the name?

> SC: To be able to recognise any differences, Vyse would HAVE to
> know (or think he knew) the correct spelling of Khufu (aka
> Suphis).

Er, Creighton? One of the “different” cartouches is a cartouche of “Suphis”. Vyse drew it without lines in the disc. As we have seen, there are no detectable lines in the disc in the photographs and epigraphy of the cartouches in this tomb. So much for your idea that Vyse got the idea of lines from this source! What puzzled Vyse was that the pyramid example had lines while the other did not: this was one of the differences noted. Note also that Vyse included the characters following the cartouche, the ones which tell us (I don’t include you) that we are looking at a title: “hm ntr (priest) of Khufu”. Clearly Vyse did understand that the “gibberish” characters with the cartouche made a difference. So much for the idea that he’d copy “gibberish” characters which for all he knew might be wildly inappropriate.

> CM: < But how would he have been able to recognise the
> smrw apr component that accompanies it?
>
> SC: Why would he have to recognise it? He recognises the
> "Khufu" cartouche alongside some other gibberish glyphs which
> he doesn't understand. So what--by their proximity it is
> reasonable to conclude that the other 'gibberish glyphs' would
> clearly relate to Khufu (i.e. the one thing Vyse CAN
> recognise), so he copies it all.

These “gibberish glyphs” include multiple examples of two other crew names at least, one of them containing a whole other cartouche name, one which Vyse’s supposed guide in these matters, Rosellini, assigned to a supposed “brother of” Suphis and not to Suphis himself (the builder of the pyramid according to Manetho). If Vyse knew enough to recognise a given cartouche name, he knew enough to recognise a cartouche (and the journal bears this out). Why on earth would he use what his sources would have told him was the wrong name?

http://www.grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=345364&t=344774#reply_345364

Note also that this conjectured “Alfordian” source is the presumable source of two significant characteristics of the crew names: (1) their arrangement in pairs and (2) their limitation to single blocks, not crossing block boundaries. In the simplest version of the Alfordian conjecture — all inscriptions copied en bloc into the pyramid — this would require an original context identically similar to the chambers in the pyramid. Have you identified such a context?

Absent such a context, we are back to Vyse using the material with discernment and not just copying it blindly. The considerations noted by Merrell apply.

M.

Edited 2017-04-12 to fix link format.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12-Apr-17 09:06 by Martin Stower.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
A Vyse Mystery Solved 924 Scott Creighton 04-Dec-14 11:26
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 404 Jon Ellison 04-Dec-14 11:43
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 544 gulsbo 04-Dec-14 15:14
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 425 Martin Stower 05-Dec-14 14:30
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 403 Scott Creighton 05-Dec-14 14:38
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 391 Martin Stower 05-Dec-14 14:55
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 351 Scott Creighton 05-Dec-14 15:03
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 481 Martin Stower 05-Dec-14 15:13
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 435 Scott Creighton 05-Dec-14 15:16
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 326 DScribr 05-Dec-14 15:23
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 393 Scott Creighton 05-Dec-14 15:26
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 411 sfbey 05-Dec-14 15:40
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 420 Scott Creighton 05-Dec-14 15:49
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 343 sfbey 05-Dec-14 16:02
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 384 Scott Creighton 05-Dec-14 16:07
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 373 Merrell 05-Dec-14 16:14
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 460 Scott Creighton 05-Dec-14 16:23
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 452 sfbey 05-Dec-14 16:59
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 395 Scott Creighton 05-Dec-14 17:24
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 431 Luminescence 05-Dec-14 18:11
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 400 Scott Creighton 05-Dec-14 18:34
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 417 Luminescence 06-Dec-14 01:44
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 381 Jon Ellison 05-Dec-14 18:47
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 400 DScribr 05-Dec-14 23:04
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 500 Martin Stower 06-Dec-14 02:06
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 427 DScribr 05-Dec-14 22:54
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 373 Martin Stower 06-Dec-14 00:27
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 428 Scott Creighton 06-Dec-14 09:35
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 433 Martin Stower 07-Dec-14 02:01
pseudo paradise 396 hendrik dirker 07-Dec-14 04:00
Re: pseudo paradise 376 Martin Stower 07-Dec-14 21:18
Re: pseudo paradise 387 Jon Ellison 07-Dec-14 22:09
Re: pseudo mystery 316 DScribr 07-Dec-14 22:25
Re: pseudo paradise 567 Martin Stower 07-Dec-14 23:27
Re: pseudo paradise 416 Jon Ellison 07-Dec-14 23:33
Re: pseudo paradise 747 Martin Stower 08-Dec-14 00:24
Re: pseudo paradise 387 Jon Ellison 08-Dec-14 00:29
Re: pseudo paradise 374 Martin Stower 08-Dec-14 00:38
Re: pseudo paradise 409 Jon Ellison 08-Dec-14 00:44
Re: pseudo paradise 386 Scott Creighton 08-Dec-14 00:59
Re: pseudo paradise 429 Martin Stower 08-Dec-14 01:12
Re: pseudo paradise 390 Scott Creighton 08-Dec-14 01:17
Re: pseudo paradise 371 Martin Stower 08-Dec-14 01:40
Re: pseudo paradise 394 Scott Creighton 08-Dec-14 01:45
Re: pseudo paradise 557 Martin Stower 08-Dec-14 02:17
Re: pseudo paradise 546 Scott Creighton 08-Dec-14 02:21
Re: pseudo paradise 439 Martin Stower 08-Dec-14 02:55
Re: pseudo paradise 381 Scott Creighton 08-Dec-14 09:35
Re: pseudo paradise 749 sfbey 08-Dec-14 13:51
Re: pseudo paradise 504 Scott Creighton 08-Dec-14 14:16
Re: pseudo paradise 410 Martin Stower 08-Dec-14 15:07
Re: pseudo paradise 435 Scott Creighton 08-Dec-14 15:26
Re: pseudo paradise 434 Martin Stower 08-Dec-14 23:00
Re: pseudo paradise 392 Morten 08-Dec-14 23:32
Re: pseudo paradise 372 DScribr 09-Dec-14 00:01
Re: pseudo paradise 413 Scott Creighton 09-Dec-14 08:38
Re: pseudo paradise 386 Merrell 09-Dec-14 09:12
Re: pseudo paradise 437 Scott Creighton 09-Dec-14 09:36
The Alford argument 389 Merrell 09-Dec-14 10:47
Re: The Alford argument 402 Scott Creighton 09-Dec-14 11:01
Re: The Alford argument 424 Merrell 09-Dec-14 12:33
Re: The Alford argument 417 Scott Creighton 09-Dec-14 12:48
Re: The Alford argument 371 Morten 09-Dec-14 13:13
Re: The Alford argument 397 Scott Creighton 09-Dec-14 13:24
Re: The Alford argument 524 Merrell 09-Dec-14 14:11
Re: The Alford argument 391 Scott Creighton 09-Dec-14 14:26
Re: The Alford argument 425 Merrell 09-Dec-14 15:00
Re: The Alford argument 603 Scott Creighton 09-Dec-14 15:17
Re: The Alford argument 352 DScribr 09-Dec-14 16:21
Re: The Alford argument 416 Martin Stower 10-Dec-14 02:52
Re: The Alford argument 524 DScribr 09-Dec-14 16:12
Re: The Alford argument 418 Martin Stower 10-Dec-14 04:24
Re: The Alford argument 380 Martin Stower 10-Dec-14 23:39
Re: The Alford argument 491 DScribr 11-Dec-14 00:13
Re: The Alford argument 383 DScribr 09-Dec-14 16:06
Re: The Alford argument 378 DScribr 09-Dec-14 15:57
Re: The Alford argument 386 Merrell 09-Dec-14 13:22
Re: The Alford argument 418 Scott Creighton 09-Dec-14 13:46
Re: The Alford argument 348 Merrell 09-Dec-14 14:41
Re: The Alford argument 401 Scott Creighton 09-Dec-14 14:50
Re: The Alford argument 347 Merrell 09-Dec-14 15:07
Re: The Alford argument 475 Scott Creighton 09-Dec-14 15:40
Re: The argument-Speculation s based on assumptions 362 DScribr 09-Dec-14 20:13
Re: The Alford argument 438 Martin Stower 14-Dec-14 01:01
Re: The Alford argument 422 Hanslune 14-Dec-14 02:56
Re: The Alford argument 441 Martin Stower 14-Dec-14 23:49
Re: The Alford argument 437 sfbey 15-Dec-14 00:56
Re: The Alford argument 427 Martin Stower 16-Dec-14 01:15
Re: The Alford argument 435 Hanslune 15-Dec-14 01:54
Re: The Alford argument 347 Origyptian 15-Dec-14 14:54
Re: The Alford argument 366 sfbey 15-Dec-14 15:33
Re: The Alford argument 417 Origyptian 15-Dec-14 16:39
Re: The Alford argument 497 sfbey 15-Dec-14 16:44
Re: The Alford argument 368 Sirfiroth 15-Dec-14 21:36
Re: The Alford argument 362 Origyptian 15-Dec-14 21:46
Re: The Alford argument 430 Martin Stower 15-Dec-14 23:01
Re: The Alford argument 363 Origyptian 15-Dec-14 23:15
Re: The Alford argument 457 Audrey 16-Dec-14 06:00
Re: The Alford argument 392 Merrell 16-Dec-14 11:39
Re: The Alford argument 545 Martin Stower 17-Dec-14 01:13
Re: The Alford argument 427 Audrey 17-Dec-14 02:17
Re: The Alford argument 373 Martin Stower 17-Dec-14 04:26
Re: The Alford argument 396 Martin Stower 15-Dec-14 23:05
Re: The Alford argument 430 Hanslune 15-Dec-14 17:27
Re: The Alford argument 364 Origyptian 15-Dec-14 23:23
Re: The Alford argument 401 Hanslune 16-Dec-14 06:48
Re: The Alford argument 398 Origyptian 16-Dec-14 16:19
Re: The Alford argument 345 DScribr 16-Dec-14 16:34
Re: The Alford argument 366 Origyptian 16-Dec-14 17:04
Re: The Alford argument 381 DScribr 16-Dec-14 23:10
Re: The Alford argument 378 Origyptian 16-Dec-14 23:24
Re: The Alford argument 438 DScribr 16-Dec-14 23:52
Re: The Alford argument 387 eyeofhorus33 15-Dec-14 18:00
Re: The Alford argument 356 Origyptian 15-Dec-14 21:22
Re: The Alford argument 395 Martin Stower 16-Dec-14 01:47
Re: The Alford argument 445 Martin Stower 16-Dec-14 02:28
Re: The Alford argument 384 Origyptian 16-Dec-14 03:44
Re: The Alford argument 359 DScribr 16-Dec-14 04:17
Re: The Alford argument 420 Origyptian 16-Dec-14 04:46
Re: The Alford argument 393 DScribr 16-Dec-14 05:31
Re: The Alford argument 408 Martin Stower 16-Dec-14 12:12
Re: The Alford argument 377 Origyptian 16-Dec-14 15:18
Re: The Alford argument 405 Origyptian 16-Dec-14 16:08
Re: The Alford argument 392 DScribr 16-Dec-14 16:22
Re: The Alford argument 462 Origyptian 16-Dec-14 16:51
Re: The Alford argument 387 Jon Ellison 16-Dec-14 19:04
Re: The Alford argument 414 Origyptian 16-Dec-14 20:06
Re: The Alford argument 402 Jon Ellison 16-Dec-14 20:23
Re: The Alford argument 360 DScribr 16-Dec-14 23:58
Re: The Alford argument 388 Martin Stower 17-Dec-14 02:03
Re: The Alford argument 391 Origyptian 17-Dec-14 04:41
Re: The Alford argument 503 Luminescence 19-Dec-14 03:09
minor distinction 403 hendrik dirker 19-Dec-14 05:37
Re: minor distinction 425 Origyptian 19-Dec-14 05:57
Re: minor distinction 385 Scott Creighton 19-Dec-14 09:52
NOT a new discovery-NO puzzle 367 DScribr 19-Dec-14 11:44
Re: minor distinction-NO discovery-NO puzzle 327 Jon Ellison 19-Dec-14 11:49
Re: minor distinction-NO discovery-NO puzzle 467 Scott Creighton 19-Dec-14 12:00
Re: NOT a new discovery-NO puzzle 412 Jon Ellison 19-Dec-14 12:13
Re: NOT a new discovery-NO puzzle 410 DScribr 19-Dec-14 16:42
Re: minor distinction 393 Origyptian 19-Dec-14 14:08
Re: minor distinction 411 Scott Creighton 19-Dec-14 14:19
Re: minor distinction 360 DScribr 19-Dec-14 16:53
Re: minor distinction 393 Origyptian 20-Dec-14 03:11
Re: minor distinction 350 DScribr 20-Dec-14 04:08
Re: minor distinction 390 Origyptian 20-Dec-14 15:30
Re: minor distinction-more spin 326 DScribr 20-Dec-14 15:46
Re: minor distinction 454 Martin Stower 20-Dec-14 01:51
Re: minor distinction 484 DScribr 19-Dec-14 17:09
Re: minor distinction 315 Origyptian 20-Dec-14 03:18
Re: minor distinction 384 DScribr 20-Dec-14 04:22
Re: minor distinction 338 Merrell 19-Dec-14 17:42
Re: minor distinction-major spin 393 DScribr 19-Dec-14 18:08
Re: minor distinction 231 Martin Stower 20-Dec-14 01:43
Re: minor distinction 291 DScribr 20-Dec-14 01:53
Re: minor distinction 347 Origyptian 20-Dec-14 03:37
Re: minor distinction 302 DScribr 20-Dec-14 04:49
Re: minor distinction 328 Origyptian 20-Dec-14 15:43
Re: minor distinction-spun and done. 303 DScribr 20-Dec-14 16:27
Re: minor distinction 247 Martin Stower 22-Dec-14 00:01
Re: minor distinction-get your copy today. 252 DScribr 22-Dec-14 00:47
Re: minor distinction-get your copy today. 331 Martin Stower 22-Dec-14 02:39
Re: minor distinction-get your copy today. 342 sfbey 22-Dec-14 04:30
Re: minor distinction-get your copy today. 348 DScribr 22-Dec-14 04:47
Re: minor distinction-get your copy today. 308 DScribr 22-Dec-14 04:38
Re: minor distinction-get your copy today. 317 Origyptian 22-Dec-14 05:15
Re: minor distinction-get your copy today. 294 Martin Stower 22-Dec-14 13:44
Re: minor distinction-get your copy today. 318 DScribr 22-Dec-14 15:55
Re: minor distinction 316 Origyptian 22-Dec-14 05:11
Re: minor distinction-trivial pursuit. 280 DScribr 22-Dec-14 06:27
Re: minor distinction-trivial pursuit. 236 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 14:02
Re: minor distinction-ATTN: Jon 321 DScribr 22-Dec-14 16:02
Re: minor distinction-ATTN: Jon 278 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 16:19
Re: minor distinction-ATTN: Jon 263 DScribr 22-Dec-14 16:30
Re: minor distinction-ATTN: Jon 284 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 16:39
Re: Jon asks, "What color are the imaginary paint drips?" 295 DScribr 22-Dec-14 16:49
Re: minor distinction-ATTN: Jon 231 Origyptian 22-Dec-14 16:24
Re: minor distinction-ATTN: Jon 263 DScribr 22-Dec-14 16:42
Re: minor distinction-ATTN: Jon 230 Origyptian 22-Dec-14 16:55
Re: minor distinction-ATTN: Ori 324 DScribr 22-Dec-14 17:37
Re: minor distinction-ATTN: Ori 296 Origyptian 22-Dec-14 18:29
Re: ATTN: Ori's selective blindness strikes again 325 DScribr 22-Dec-14 18:54
Re: ATTN: Ori's selective blindness strikes again 301 Origyptian 22-Dec-14 18:56
Re: ATTN: Ori's selective blindness strikes again 306 DScribr 22-Dec-14 19:38
Re: ATTN: Ori's selective blindness strikes again 344 Origyptian 22-Dec-14 19:49
Re: ATTN: Ori's selective blindness strikes again...his games continue...... 390 DScribr 22-Dec-14 20:51
Re: ATTN: Ori's selective blindness strikes again 265 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 18:58
Re: ATTN: Jon's selective blindness strikes again 247 DScribr 22-Dec-14 21:04
Re: ATTN: Jon's selective blindness strikes again 298 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 21:16
Re: minor distinction 288 Scott Creighton 22-Dec-14 13:54
Re: minor distinction 264 Origyptian 22-Dec-14 15:12
Re: minor distinction 277 Martin Stower 22-Dec-14 16:06
Re: minor distinction 285 DScribr 22-Dec-14 16:17
Re: minor distinction 329 Origyptian 20-Dec-14 03:31
Re: minor distinction 293 Merrell 20-Dec-14 09:01
Re: minor distinction 298 Origyptian 20-Dec-14 19:48
Re: minor distinction 299 Martin Stower 21-Dec-14 00:18
Re: minor distinction 318 Origyptian 21-Dec-14 03:07
Re: minor distinction 301 Martin Stower 21-Dec-14 00:58
Re: minor distinction 293 DScribr 19-Dec-14 11:37
Re: The Alford argument 295 Merrell 19-Dec-14 18:16
Re: The Alford argument 295 Luminescence 20-Dec-14 21:35
Re: The Authors Alford argument 292 Luminescence 20-Dec-14 22:42
Re: The Authors Alford argument 261 Merrell 21-Dec-14 17:03
Re: The Authors Alford argument 287 Audrey 21-Dec-14 19:37
Re: The Authors Alford argument 298 Luminescence 21-Dec-14 23:59
Re: The Authors Alford argument 321 Luminescence 21-Dec-14 21:46
Re: The Authors Sources argument 295 DScribr 22-Dec-14 00:32
Re: The Authors Alford argument 340 Origyptian 22-Dec-14 04:27
Re: The Authors Alford argument 477 DScribr 22-Dec-14 05:20
Re: The Authors Alford argument 271 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 09:30
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 258 DScribr 22-Dec-14 17:10
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 268 Martin Stower 22-Dec-14 17:35
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 344 DScribr 22-Dec-14 19:11
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 300 Martin Stower 22-Dec-14 20:23
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 264 DScribr 22-Dec-14 20:56
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 294 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 18:16
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 344 DScribr 22-Dec-14 19:20
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 204 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 19:26
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 276 Origyptian 22-Dec-14 19:46
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 261 DScribr 22-Dec-14 21:48
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 274 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 22:01
WHY the Games, Jon and Ori??? 307 DScribr 22-Dec-14 22:35
Re: WHY the Games, Jon and Ori??? 283 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 23:13
Re: WHY the Games, Jon and Ori??? 309 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Dec-14 00:02
Re: WHY the Games, Jon and Ori??? 263 Jon Ellison 23-Dec-14 00:10
Re: WHY the Games, Jon and Ori??? 435 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Dec-14 00:42
Re: WHY the Games, Jon and Ori??? 320 Jon Ellison 23-Dec-14 00:57
Extended Exercise in Deceased Equidaean Flagellation 235 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Dec-14 16:29
Re: Extended Exercise in Deceased Equidaean Flagellation 386 Origyptian 23-Dec-14 16:53
Re: Extended Exercise in Deceased Equidaean Flagellation 316 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Dec-14 17:19
Re: Extended Exercise in Deceased Equidaean Flagellation 292 Jon Ellison 23-Dec-14 18:12
Re: Thanks Dr. T. 271 DScribr 23-Dec-14 01:39
Re: Thanks Dr. T. 265 Luminescence 23-Dec-14 02:10
Re: ATTN: Colette. 342 DScribr 23-Dec-14 02:55
Re: Thanks Dr. T. 332 Origyptian 23-Dec-14 04:50
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 311 DScribr 22-Dec-14 19:53
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 276 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 20:29