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Scott Creighton wrote:

> SC: There is no "might" about it. From Vyse's private journal:

Quote

"Cartouches in tomb to the W.[est] of first pyramid are different than Suphis" R. W. Howard Vyse
From your iffy transcription of a caption in the journal, actually:



Look at the strings which you’ve transcribed as “to the” and “than” respectively. They’re very similar. More likely this: “Cartouches in Tomb to the W. of Great Pyramid are different to the Suphis” or, glossing the ellipsis, “Cartouches in Tomb to the W. of Great Pyramid are different to the [cartouche of] Suphis”.

What does this tell us about what Vyse knew a day, or a week, or a month, before he wrote the caption? Does the name “Suphis” appear frequently in the journal? Do we find it earlier in the journal? If not, what does this tell us about Vyse’s supposed prior knowledge of the name?

> SC: To be able to recognise any differences, Vyse would HAVE to
> know (or think he knew) the correct spelling of Khufu (aka
> Suphis).

Er, Creighton? One of the “different” cartouches is a cartouche of “Suphis”. Vyse drew it without lines in the disc. As we have seen, there are no detectable lines in the disc in the photographs and epigraphy of the cartouches in this tomb. So much for your idea that Vyse got the idea of lines from this source! What puzzled Vyse was that the pyramid example had lines while the other did not: this was one of the differences noted. Note also that Vyse included the characters following the cartouche, the ones which tell us (I don’t include you) that we are looking at a title: “hm ntr (priest) of Khufu”. Clearly Vyse did understand that the “gibberish” characters with the cartouche made a difference. So much for the idea that he’d copy “gibberish” characters which for all he knew might be wildly inappropriate.

> CM: < But how would he have been able to recognise the
> smrw apr component that accompanies it?
>
> SC: Why would he have to recognise it? He recognises the
> "Khufu" cartouche alongside some other gibberish glyphs which
> he doesn't understand. So what--by their proximity it is
> reasonable to conclude that the other 'gibberish glyphs' would
> clearly relate to Khufu (i.e. the one thing Vyse CAN
> recognise), so he copies it all.

These “gibberish glyphs” include multiple examples of two other crew names at least, one of them containing a whole other cartouche name, one which Vyse’s supposed guide in these matters, Rosellini, assigned to a supposed “brother of” Suphis and not to Suphis himself (the builder of the pyramid according to Manetho). If Vyse knew enough to recognise a given cartouche name, he knew enough to recognise a cartouche (and the journal bears this out). Why on earth would he use what his sources would have told him was the wrong name?

http://www.grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=345364&t=344774#reply_345364

Note also that this conjectured “Alfordian” source is the presumable source of two significant characteristics of the crew names: (1) their arrangement in pairs and (2) their limitation to single blocks, not crossing block boundaries. In the simplest version of the Alfordian conjecture — all inscriptions copied en bloc into the pyramid — this would require an original context identically similar to the chambers in the pyramid. Have you identified such a context?

Absent such a context, we are back to Vyse using the material with discernment and not just copying it blindly. The considerations noted by Merrell apply.

M.

Edited 2017-04-12 to fix link format.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12-Apr-17 09:06 by Martin Stower.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
A Vyse Mystery Solved 721 Scott Creighton 04-Dec-14 11:26
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 298 Jon Ellison 04-Dec-14 11:43
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 277 gulsbo 04-Dec-14 15:14
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 297 Martin Stower 05-Dec-14 14:30
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 293 Scott Creighton 05-Dec-14 14:38
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 287 Martin Stower 05-Dec-14 14:55
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 232 Scott Creighton 05-Dec-14 15:03
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 281 Martin Stower 05-Dec-14 15:13
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 311 Scott Creighton 05-Dec-14 15:16
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 225 DScribr 05-Dec-14 15:23
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 266 Scott Creighton 05-Dec-14 15:26
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 283 sfbey 05-Dec-14 15:40
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 303 Scott Creighton 05-Dec-14 15:49
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 228 sfbey 05-Dec-14 16:02
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 280 Scott Creighton 05-Dec-14 16:07
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 248 Merrell 05-Dec-14 16:14
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 295 Scott Creighton 05-Dec-14 16:23
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 290 sfbey 05-Dec-14 16:59
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 280 Scott Creighton 05-Dec-14 17:24
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 315 Luminescence 05-Dec-14 18:11
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 288 Scott Creighton 05-Dec-14 18:34
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 314 Luminescence 06-Dec-14 01:44
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 271 Jon Ellison 05-Dec-14 18:47
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 262 DScribr 05-Dec-14 23:04
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 349 Martin Stower 06-Dec-14 02:06
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 275 DScribr 05-Dec-14 22:54
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 271 Martin Stower 06-Dec-14 00:27
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 321 Scott Creighton 06-Dec-14 09:35
Re: A Vyse Mystery Solved 299 Martin Stower 07-Dec-14 02:01
pseudo paradise 286 hendrik dirker 07-Dec-14 04:00
Re: pseudo paradise 259 Martin Stower 07-Dec-14 21:18
Re: pseudo paradise 273 Jon Ellison 07-Dec-14 22:09
Re: pseudo mystery 194 DScribr 07-Dec-14 22:25
Re: pseudo paradise 304 Martin Stower 07-Dec-14 23:27
Re: pseudo paradise 306 Jon Ellison 07-Dec-14 23:33
Re: pseudo paradise 312 Martin Stower 08-Dec-14 00:24
Re: pseudo paradise 274 Jon Ellison 08-Dec-14 00:29
Re: pseudo paradise 265 Martin Stower 08-Dec-14 00:38
Re: pseudo paradise 298 Jon Ellison 08-Dec-14 00:44
Re: pseudo paradise 270 Scott Creighton 08-Dec-14 00:59
Re: pseudo paradise 253 Martin Stower 08-Dec-14 01:12
Re: pseudo paradise 287 Scott Creighton 08-Dec-14 01:17
Re: pseudo paradise 253 Martin Stower 08-Dec-14 01:40
Re: pseudo paradise 282 Scott Creighton 08-Dec-14 01:45
Re: pseudo paradise 376 Martin Stower 08-Dec-14 02:17
Re: pseudo paradise 282 Scott Creighton 08-Dec-14 02:21
Re: pseudo paradise 332 Martin Stower 08-Dec-14 02:55
Re: pseudo paradise 272 Scott Creighton 08-Dec-14 09:35
Re: pseudo paradise 306 sfbey 08-Dec-14 13:51
Re: pseudo paradise 268 Scott Creighton 08-Dec-14 14:16
Re: pseudo paradise 276 Martin Stower 08-Dec-14 15:07
Re: pseudo paradise 329 Scott Creighton 08-Dec-14 15:26
Re: pseudo paradise 325 Martin Stower 08-Dec-14 23:00
Re: pseudo paradise 283 Morten 08-Dec-14 23:32
Re: pseudo paradise 262 DScribr 09-Dec-14 00:01
Re: pseudo paradise 302 Scott Creighton 09-Dec-14 08:38
Re: pseudo paradise 278 Merrell 09-Dec-14 09:12
Re: pseudo paradise 255 Scott Creighton 09-Dec-14 09:36
The Alford argument 277 Merrell 09-Dec-14 10:47
Re: The Alford argument 301 Scott Creighton 09-Dec-14 11:01
Re: The Alford argument 304 Merrell 09-Dec-14 12:33
Re: The Alford argument 306 Scott Creighton 09-Dec-14 12:48
Re: The Alford argument 271 Morten 09-Dec-14 13:13
Re: The Alford argument 272 Scott Creighton 09-Dec-14 13:24
Re: The Alford argument 302 Merrell 09-Dec-14 14:11
Re: The Alford argument 279 Scott Creighton 09-Dec-14 14:26
Re: The Alford argument 309 Merrell 09-Dec-14 15:00
Re: The Alford argument 319 Scott Creighton 09-Dec-14 15:17
Re: The Alford argument 238 DScribr 09-Dec-14 16:21
Re: The Alford argument 308 Martin Stower 10-Dec-14 02:52
Re: The Alford argument 312 DScribr 09-Dec-14 16:12
Re: The Alford argument 292 Martin Stower 10-Dec-14 04:24
Re: The Alford argument 272 Martin Stower 10-Dec-14 23:39
Re: The Alford argument 285 DScribr 11-Dec-14 00:13
Re: The Alford argument 266 DScribr 09-Dec-14 16:06
Re: The Alford argument 268 DScribr 09-Dec-14 15:57
Re: The Alford argument 277 Merrell 09-Dec-14 13:22
Re: The Alford argument 308 Scott Creighton 09-Dec-14 13:46
Re: The Alford argument 243 Merrell 09-Dec-14 14:41
Re: The Alford argument 283 Scott Creighton 09-Dec-14 14:50
Re: The Alford argument 250 Merrell 09-Dec-14 15:07
Re: The Alford argument 330 Scott Creighton 09-Dec-14 15:40
Re: The argument-Speculation s based on assumptions 266 DScribr 09-Dec-14 20:13
Re: The Alford argument 323 Martin Stower 14-Dec-14 01:01
Re: The Alford argument 302 Hanslune 14-Dec-14 02:56
Re: The Alford argument 338 Martin Stower 14-Dec-14 23:49
Re: The Alford argument 336 sfbey 15-Dec-14 00:56
Re: The Alford argument 325 Martin Stower 16-Dec-14 01:15
Re: The Alford argument 293 Hanslune 15-Dec-14 01:54
Re: The Alford argument 241 Origyptian 15-Dec-14 14:54
Re: The Alford argument 267 sfbey 15-Dec-14 15:33
Re: The Alford argument 296 Origyptian 15-Dec-14 16:39
Re: The Alford argument 237 sfbey 15-Dec-14 16:44
Re: The Alford argument 249 Sirfiroth 15-Dec-14 21:36
Re: The Alford argument 262 Origyptian 15-Dec-14 21:46
Re: The Alford argument 263 Martin Stower 15-Dec-14 23:01
Re: The Alford argument 259 Origyptian 15-Dec-14 23:15
Re: The Alford argument 305 Audrey 16-Dec-14 06:00
Re: The Alford argument 267 Merrell 16-Dec-14 11:39
Re: The Alford argument 337 Martin Stower 17-Dec-14 01:13
Re: The Alford argument 324 Audrey 17-Dec-14 02:17
Re: The Alford argument 276 Martin Stower 17-Dec-14 04:26
Re: The Alford argument 291 Martin Stower 15-Dec-14 23:05
Re: The Alford argument 303 Hanslune 15-Dec-14 17:27
Re: The Alford argument 260 Origyptian 15-Dec-14 23:23
Re: The Alford argument 272 Hanslune 16-Dec-14 06:48
Re: The Alford argument 299 Origyptian 16-Dec-14 16:19
Re: The Alford argument 235 DScribr 16-Dec-14 16:34
Re: The Alford argument 271 Origyptian 16-Dec-14 17:04
Re: The Alford argument 281 DScribr 16-Dec-14 23:10
Re: The Alford argument 276 Origyptian 16-Dec-14 23:24
Re: The Alford argument 305 DScribr 16-Dec-14 23:52
Re: The Alford argument 271 eyeofhorus33 15-Dec-14 18:00
Re: The Alford argument 253 Origyptian 15-Dec-14 21:22
Re: The Alford argument 283 Martin Stower 16-Dec-14 01:47
Re: The Alford argument 326 Martin Stower 16-Dec-14 02:28
Re: The Alford argument 287 Origyptian 16-Dec-14 03:44
Re: The Alford argument 259 DScribr 16-Dec-14 04:17
Re: The Alford argument 282 Origyptian 16-Dec-14 04:46
Re: The Alford argument 298 DScribr 16-Dec-14 05:31
Re: The Alford argument 307 Martin Stower 16-Dec-14 12:12
Re: The Alford argument 274 Origyptian 16-Dec-14 15:18
Re: The Alford argument 296 Origyptian 16-Dec-14 16:08
Re: The Alford argument 295 DScribr 16-Dec-14 16:22
Re: The Alford argument 247 Origyptian 16-Dec-14 16:51
Re: The Alford argument 288 Jon Ellison 16-Dec-14 19:04
Re: The Alford argument 277 Origyptian 16-Dec-14 20:06
Re: The Alford argument 266 Jon Ellison 16-Dec-14 20:23
Re: The Alford argument 215 DScribr 16-Dec-14 23:58
Re: The Alford argument 294 Martin Stower 17-Dec-14 02:03
Re: The Alford argument 271 Origyptian 17-Dec-14 04:41
Re: The Alford argument 319 Luminescence 19-Dec-14 03:09
minor distinction 299 hendrik dirker 19-Dec-14 05:37
Re: minor distinction 323 Origyptian 19-Dec-14 05:57
Re: minor distinction 279 Scott Creighton 19-Dec-14 09:52
NOT a new discovery-NO puzzle 274 DScribr 19-Dec-14 11:44
Re: minor distinction-NO discovery-NO puzzle 234 Jon Ellison 19-Dec-14 11:49
Re: minor distinction-NO discovery-NO puzzle 237 Scott Creighton 19-Dec-14 12:00
Re: NOT a new discovery-NO puzzle 219 Jon Ellison 19-Dec-14 12:13
Re: NOT a new discovery-NO puzzle 306 DScribr 19-Dec-14 16:42
Re: minor distinction 293 Origyptian 19-Dec-14 14:08
Re: minor distinction 278 Scott Creighton 19-Dec-14 14:19
Re: minor distinction 255 DScribr 19-Dec-14 16:53
Re: minor distinction 295 Origyptian 20-Dec-14 03:11
Re: minor distinction 243 DScribr 20-Dec-14 04:08
Re: minor distinction 286 Origyptian 20-Dec-14 15:30
Re: minor distinction-more spin 231 DScribr 20-Dec-14 15:46
Re: minor distinction 344 Martin Stower 20-Dec-14 01:51
Re: minor distinction 276 DScribr 19-Dec-14 17:09
Re: minor distinction 217 Origyptian 20-Dec-14 03:18
Re: minor distinction 265 DScribr 20-Dec-14 04:22
Re: minor distinction 233 Merrell 19-Dec-14 17:42
Re: minor distinction-major spin 276 DScribr 19-Dec-14 18:08
Re: minor distinction 128 Martin Stower 20-Dec-14 01:43
Re: minor distinction 198 DScribr 20-Dec-14 01:53
Re: minor distinction 207 Origyptian 20-Dec-14 03:37
Re: minor distinction 202 DScribr 20-Dec-14 04:49
Re: minor distinction 198 Origyptian 20-Dec-14 15:43
Re: minor distinction-spun and done. 207 DScribr 20-Dec-14 16:27
Re: minor distinction 152 Martin Stower 22-Dec-14 00:01
Re: minor distinction-get your copy today. 159 DScribr 22-Dec-14 00:47
Re: minor distinction-get your copy today. 227 Martin Stower 22-Dec-14 02:39
Re: minor distinction-get your copy today. 239 sfbey 22-Dec-14 04:30
Re: minor distinction-get your copy today. 226 DScribr 22-Dec-14 04:47
Re: minor distinction-get your copy today. 208 DScribr 22-Dec-14 04:38
Re: minor distinction-get your copy today. 213 Origyptian 22-Dec-14 05:15
Re: minor distinction-get your copy today. 193 Martin Stower 22-Dec-14 13:44
Re: minor distinction-get your copy today. 193 DScribr 22-Dec-14 15:55
Re: minor distinction 217 Origyptian 22-Dec-14 05:11
Re: minor distinction-trivial pursuit. 172 DScribr 22-Dec-14 06:27
Re: minor distinction-trivial pursuit. 116 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 14:02
Re: minor distinction-ATTN: Jon 222 DScribr 22-Dec-14 16:02
Re: minor distinction-ATTN: Jon 178 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 16:19
Re: minor distinction-ATTN: Jon 164 DScribr 22-Dec-14 16:30
Re: minor distinction-ATTN: Jon 184 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 16:39
Re: Jon asks, "What color are the imaginary paint drips?" 200 DScribr 22-Dec-14 16:49
Re: minor distinction-ATTN: Jon 130 Origyptian 22-Dec-14 16:24
Re: minor distinction-ATTN: Jon 165 DScribr 22-Dec-14 16:42
Re: minor distinction-ATTN: Jon 136 Origyptian 22-Dec-14 16:55
Re: minor distinction-ATTN: Ori 209 DScribr 22-Dec-14 17:37
Re: minor distinction-ATTN: Ori 199 Origyptian 22-Dec-14 18:29
Re: ATTN: Ori's selective blindness strikes again 224 DScribr 22-Dec-14 18:54
Re: ATTN: Ori's selective blindness strikes again 209 Origyptian 22-Dec-14 18:56
Re: ATTN: Ori's selective blindness strikes again 195 DScribr 22-Dec-14 19:38
Re: ATTN: Ori's selective blindness strikes again 239 Origyptian 22-Dec-14 19:49
Re: ATTN: Ori's selective blindness strikes again...his games continue...... 165 DScribr 22-Dec-14 20:51
Re: ATTN: Ori's selective blindness strikes again 166 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 18:58
Re: ATTN: Jon's selective blindness strikes again 147 DScribr 22-Dec-14 21:04
Re: ATTN: Jon's selective blindness strikes again 196 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 21:16
Re: minor distinction 194 Scott Creighton 22-Dec-14 13:54
Re: minor distinction 168 Origyptian 22-Dec-14 15:12
Re: minor distinction 173 Martin Stower 22-Dec-14 16:06
Re: minor distinction 194 DScribr 22-Dec-14 16:17
Re: minor distinction 233 Origyptian 20-Dec-14 03:31
Re: minor distinction 177 Merrell 20-Dec-14 09:01
Re: minor distinction 201 Origyptian 20-Dec-14 19:48
Re: minor distinction 200 Martin Stower 21-Dec-14 00:18
Re: minor distinction 218 Origyptian 21-Dec-14 03:07
Re: minor distinction 204 Martin Stower 21-Dec-14 00:58
Re: minor distinction 175 DScribr 19-Dec-14 11:37
Re: The Alford argument 192 Merrell 19-Dec-14 18:16
Re: The Alford argument 195 Luminescence 20-Dec-14 21:35
Re: The Authors Alford argument 190 Luminescence 20-Dec-14 22:42
Re: The Authors Alford argument 156 Merrell 21-Dec-14 17:03
Re: The Authors Alford argument 187 Audrey 21-Dec-14 19:37
Re: The Authors Alford argument 196 Luminescence 21-Dec-14 23:59
Re: The Authors Alford argument 217 Luminescence 21-Dec-14 21:46
Re: The Authors Sources argument 201 DScribr 22-Dec-14 00:32
Re: The Authors Alford argument 218 Origyptian 22-Dec-14 04:27
Re: The Authors Alford argument 238 DScribr 22-Dec-14 05:20
Re: The Authors Alford argument 156 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 09:30
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 164 DScribr 22-Dec-14 17:10
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 173 Martin Stower 22-Dec-14 17:35
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 181 DScribr 22-Dec-14 19:11
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 209 Martin Stower 22-Dec-14 20:23
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 168 DScribr 22-Dec-14 20:56
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 194 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 18:16
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 217 DScribr 22-Dec-14 19:20
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 113 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 19:26
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 177 Origyptian 22-Dec-14 19:46
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 164 DScribr 22-Dec-14 21:48
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 170 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 22:01
WHY the Games, Jon and Ori??? 209 DScribr 22-Dec-14 22:35
Re: WHY the Games, Jon and Ori??? 188 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 23:13
Re: WHY the Games, Jon and Ori??? 200 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Dec-14 00:02
Re: WHY the Games, Jon and Ori??? 166 Jon Ellison 23-Dec-14 00:10
Re: WHY the Games, Jon and Ori??? 322 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Dec-14 00:42
Re: WHY the Games, Jon and Ori??? 211 Jon Ellison 23-Dec-14 00:57
Extended Exercise in Deceased Equidaean Flagellation 127 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Dec-14 16:29
Re: Extended Exercise in Deceased Equidaean Flagellation 225 Origyptian 23-Dec-14 16:53
Re: Extended Exercise in Deceased Equidaean Flagellation 200 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Dec-14 17:19
Re: Extended Exercise in Deceased Equidaean Flagellation 195 Jon Ellison 23-Dec-14 18:12
Re: Thanks Dr. T. 174 DScribr 23-Dec-14 01:39
Re: Thanks Dr. T. 149 Luminescence 23-Dec-14 02:10
Re: ATTN: Colette. 233 DScribr 23-Dec-14 02:55
Re: Thanks Dr. T. 218 Origyptian 23-Dec-14 04:50
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 212 DScribr 22-Dec-14 19:53
Re: I can't point out what does NOT exist 183 Jon Ellison 22-Dec-14 20:29