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Hi Dune..

Thanks for the reply.
Yes I too noticed Petrie's comments regarding the whitewash.
He states that the whitewash and the red lines were applied during the building. Which is understandable. He also mentions "black lines" which do not appear to be there today.

First the whitewash issue. If the red marks had been applied in the quarry, would that not indicate that the whitewash had also been applied before the red lines, therefore also in the quarry. This seems rather odd to me?? The whitewash is clearly underneath the red lines.

Yes there are clearly creamy coloured marks over the red ochre.
Initially I put this down to "specular highlights" resulting from the photographic flash lighting. However I now feel that they may be abrasion marks indicating that the block was abraded post painting.

As for plaster and whitewash I'm guessing that whitewash was simply diluted plaster. I have had to largly ignore this as I cannot find any firm evidence for post Vyse repairs. I have seen repairs mentioned but nothing that can be proven.

What you are suggesting, in that someone had applied plaster over the red ochre marks, is what forgers call "distressing". In other words trying to make something look older than it really is.
It is a possibility but I'm not sure that the photographic evidence we have at this time can prove one way or the other.
It is a good point.

I also considered the idea of "cleaning" or abrasion of some sort of the whitewash to reveal the underlying rock colour. Question is how was this done without abrading away the red marks.??

So to sum up the above, it appears to me that the block was first installed, whitewashed. It was then cleaned or abraded, and finally the cartouche was added.
What happened where and when is yet to be determined.

So my view at present is that due to the lack of concise documentation regarding possible repairs and modern interference for whatever reason.
At this time it is impossible to determine the age of this artwork.
However that does not mean that it should not be questioned.
I will continue to question it.
If it were a valuable artwork I would highly recommend that it be subjected to proper forensic analyses.
I can't for the life of me understand why it hasn't been already...

There are a number of features that are clearly defined in the photos, which I believe are not the result of photographic aberrations, digital artifacts or manipulation.

For example in your photograph, if you look closely at the intersection of the cartouche frame and the reed. It is clear that the frame was painted after and partially overlapping the reed. We call this "modulation", where one brush stroke interferes with a preceding brush stroke.
The brush stroke which is effectively a "fingerprint" demonstrates that the frame was painted from bottom right to bottom left in one continuous mark/loop. This is hard evidence for the way in which the frame was painted.

Lastly I have been looking at, and among many other issues, the splashes to the lower left of the cartouche. I'd be interested in your opinion.
Please bear in mind that a splash has a very different signature to that of an applied dot.

And also I must apologise for not uploading images.I work in this field and it would be very unethical of me to use an image in any way unless I had written permission from the author.
Although you can.. And it is OK for me to comment on them.



Post Edited (10-Sep-14 12:46)

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Subject Views Written By Posted
About Those Two Dots.... 470 Scott Creighton 06-Sep-14 10:54
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 188 Jon Ellison 06-Sep-14 12:15
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 126 Skatha 06-Sep-14 17:24
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 188 Origyptian 06-Sep-14 18:12
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 201 Jon Ellison 06-Sep-14 18:36
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 165 sfbey 06-Sep-14 22:29
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 203 Scott Creighton 06-Sep-14 23:58
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 196 Origyptian 07-Sep-14 00:12
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 189 Jon Ellison 07-Sep-14 01:22
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 232 Origyptian 07-Sep-14 03:52
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 199 Jon Ellison 07-Sep-14 01:38
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 228 Audrey 07-Sep-14 06:21
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 262 Martin Stower 10-Sep-14 00:22
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 191 Jon Ellison 07-Sep-14 08:09
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 211 Scott Creighton 07-Sep-14 10:48
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 165 Audrey 07-Sep-14 17:44
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 197 Scott Creighton 07-Sep-14 18:59
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 250 sfbey 07-Sep-14 19:02
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 224 Scott Creighton 07-Sep-14 22:35
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 205 sfbey 08-Sep-14 00:35
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 232 Scott Creighton 08-Sep-14 10:09
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 190 Audrey 08-Sep-14 00:44
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 219 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 20:09
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 216 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 20:27
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 246 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 20:33
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 178 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 21:12
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 172 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 21:19
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 187 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 21:29
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 213 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 21:41
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 183 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 21:52
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 144 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 22:04
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 150 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 22:35
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 158 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 22:42
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 197 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 22:56
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 181 Audrey 09-Sep-14 01:01
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 185 Jon Ellison 09-Sep-14 01:37
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 235 eyeofhorus33 09-Sep-14 17:54
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 135 Origyptian 09-Sep-14 18:23
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 156 eyeofhorus33 09-Sep-14 19:02
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 194 Origyptian 09-Sep-14 19:32
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 210 eyeofhorus33 09-Sep-14 20:43
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 189 Jon Ellison 09-Sep-14 20:55
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 211 Morten 09-Sep-14 21:59
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 215 Jon Ellison 09-Sep-14 22:12
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 223 Origyptian 09-Sep-14 22:36
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 190 Jon Ellison 09-Sep-14 22:42
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 169 Origyptian 09-Sep-14 22:29
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 197 Jon Ellison 09-Sep-14 22:35
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 172 Origyptian 09-Sep-14 22:48
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 188 Jon Ellison 09-Sep-14 23:04
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 204 Jon Ellison 10-Sep-14 08:45
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 190 DUNE 10-Sep-14 09:52
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 234 Jon Ellison 10-Sep-14 11:47
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 205 DUNE 10-Sep-14 13:17
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 201 Jon Ellison 10-Sep-14 13:36
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 191 DUNE 10-Sep-14 14:14
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 194 Jon Ellison 10-Sep-14 16:49
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 130 DUNE 10-Sep-14 17:26
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 188 Origyptian 10-Sep-14 18:03
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 225 Scott Creighton 10-Sep-14 18:31
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 219 Jon Ellison 10-Sep-14 18:49
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 230 Scott Creighton 10-Sep-14 18:54
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 209 Jon Ellison 10-Sep-14 19:12
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 203 Origyptian 10-Sep-14 19:52
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 200 Jon Ellison 10-Sep-14 19:35
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 198 Origyptian 10-Sep-14 19:37
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 226 DUNE 10-Sep-14 19:54
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 217 Origyptian 10-Sep-14 20:06
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 243 Origyptian 10-Sep-14 19:34
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 228 Origyptian 10-Sep-14 15:57
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 196 DUNE 10-Sep-14 16:39
could be a result of overprocessing the image 200 Skatha 10-Sep-14 17:35
Re: could be a result of overprocessing the image 189 Jon Ellison 10-Sep-14 17:40
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 214 Origyptian 09-Sep-14 22:26
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 199 Morten 08-Sep-14 23:03
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 202 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 23:05
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 202 Morten 08-Sep-14 23:11
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 189 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 23:15
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 253 sfbey 08-Sep-14 23:18
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 183 Origyptian 09-Sep-14 00:03
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 200 Jon Ellison 09-Sep-14 00:30
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 235 Origyptian 09-Sep-14 00:03
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 215 Origyptian 09-Sep-14 00:01
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 193 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 23:13
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 177 Audrey 09-Sep-14 00:52
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 215 Origyptian 09-Sep-14 05:50
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 194 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 21:15
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 224 sfbey 08-Sep-14 21:23
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 219 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 21:26
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 200 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 21:30
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 197 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 21:47
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 214 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 22:06
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 201 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 22:21
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 232 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 22:44
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 168 sfbey 08-Sep-14 22:04
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 186 Audrey 08-Sep-14 21:59
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 208 sfbey 08-Sep-14 22:11
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 117 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 21:25
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 174 Audrey 08-Sep-14 21:24
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 197 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 21:28
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 179 Audrey 08-Sep-14 22:02
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 155 eyeofhorus33 08-Sep-14 22:13
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 142 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 22:40
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 151 Thanos5150 11-Sep-14 05:11
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 166 Origyptian 11-Sep-14 13:51
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 186 Thanos5150 11-Sep-14 16:47
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 181 Origyptian 11-Sep-14 20:27
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 278 Thanos5150 11-Sep-14 21:28
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 189 Origyptian 11-Sep-14 22:46
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 201 Jon Ellison 11-Sep-14 22:55
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 165 Origyptian 11-Sep-14 23:34
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 201 Jon Ellison 11-Sep-14 23:54
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 176 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 00:07
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 183 Jon Ellison 12-Sep-14 00:17
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 185 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 00:27
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 196 Jon Ellison 12-Sep-14 00:39
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 202 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 01:12
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 171 Jon Ellison 12-Sep-14 06:26
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 184 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 15:49
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 183 Jon Ellison 12-Sep-14 07:22
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 160 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 15:58
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 137 DUNE 12-Sep-14 16:07
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 176 Jon Ellison 12-Sep-14 16:13
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 180 Jon Ellison 12-Sep-14 16:19
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 98 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 16:48
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 209 DUNE 12-Sep-14 17:07
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 200 DUNE 12-Sep-14 17:45
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 198 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 18:01
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 172 DUNE 12-Sep-14 18:16
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 195 Jon Ellison 12-Sep-14 18:25
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 195 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 18:53
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 250 Jon Ellison 12-Sep-14 19:15
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 190 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 19:58
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 170 Jon Ellison 12-Sep-14 20:27
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 200 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 20:58
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 195 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 16:35
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 191 Jon Ellison 12-Sep-14 18:05
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 216 Thanos5150 11-Sep-14 23:59
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 178 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 00:16
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 168 Thanos5150 12-Sep-14 00:27
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 168 Origyptian 12-Sep-14 00:31
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 214 Audrey 09-Sep-14 02:04
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 174 Jon Ellison 09-Sep-14 10:56
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 180 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 22:13
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 206 Jon Ellison 07-Sep-14 11:53
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 175 Origyptian 07-Sep-14 17:21
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 221 Jon Ellison 07-Sep-14 18:15
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 157 Origyptian 07-Sep-14 18:24
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 186 Jon Ellison 07-Sep-14 18:27
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 214 Jon Ellison 07-Sep-14 18:52
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 193 Origyptian 07-Sep-14 19:08
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 155 Jon Ellison 07-Sep-14 19:12
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 186 DScribr 07-Sep-14 22:10
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 201 Origyptian 07-Sep-14 22:53
Could you link to some? 199 Skatha 08-Sep-14 06:17
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 188 DScribr 08-Sep-14 08:41
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 210 Jon Ellison 08-Sep-14 09:26
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 156 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 15:00
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 183 DScribr 08-Sep-14 15:13
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 243 Jon Ellison 08-Sep-14 15:45
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 159 DScribr 08-Sep-14 15:58
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 142 Jon Ellison 08-Sep-14 16:11
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 84 Origyptian 08-Sep-14 16:19
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 176 Audrey 08-Sep-14 21:15
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 186 Martin Stower 10-Sep-14 00:27
Re: About Those Two Dots.... 200 Scott Creighton 10-Sep-14 10:19
...Vyse is showing THREE dots... 188 Skatha 10-Sep-14 15:31
Re: ...Vyse is showing THREE dots... 172 Origyptian 10-Sep-14 15:39
Re: ...Vyse is showing THREE dots... 238 Scott Creighton 10-Sep-14 15:55
Re: ...Vyse is showing THREE dots... 170 Skatha 10-Sep-14 17:33
Re: ...Vyse is showing THREE dots... 185 Scott Creighton 10-Sep-14 18:09
Re: ...Vyse is showing THREE dots... 158 Skatha 10-Sep-14 23:54
Re: ...Vyse is showing THREE dots... 200 Scott Creighton 11-Sep-14 08:49
Re: ...Vyse is showing THREE dots... 167 Skatha 11-Sep-14 15:06


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