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Reviewing Creighton’s article in the light of Creighton’s response, I see that I did indeed miss a couple of things, both of them on the final page (really two thirds of a page) of the article. The more important of these is this: Creighton is aware of the caption “in Campbell’s Chamber” (next to the smaller drawing).

Here, for reference, is an image of (part of) the relevant page, with the captions ringed in blue and the “cross-reference marks” ringed in red:





Creighton’s Figure 2 is his own drawing of the drawing captioned “in Campbell’s Chamber”. We may note in passing (as here) that Creighton has also drawn the reference mark, having evidently mistaken it for part of the inscription. Creighton’s Figure 2 is connected to the image of the original by the usual apparatus in this article of red dotted lines.

What does Creighton say about this?


“. . . The second cartouche (Figure 2), also found by Vyse, is presented only in his handwritten journal (he didn’t publish this) and has clearly been found somewhere else since it is slightly different from the cartouche in the Great Pyramid; i.e., it has no horizontal lines in the small circle on the right. Had the cartouche in Figure 2 been copied from the cartouche in Campbell’s Chamber, then Vyse most surely would have copied the small lines into the plain circle that we observe in the circle of Figure 1. That he did not copy these lines tells us he did not observe such lines in the circle of this cartouche in Figure 2, which implies, of course, that the cartouche in Figure 2 is from a different source than the one in Campbell’s Chamber (Figure 1).”

Come again?

“. . . the cartouche in Figure 2 is from a different source than the one in Campbell’s Chamber . . .”

I will pose this as a question. Has Creighton not stated and argued, in the clearest possible terms, that the inscription represented by the smaller drawing, the one captioned “in Campbell’s Chamber”, is not the one in Campbell’s Chamber? Never mind the sheer eccentricity of this, which is merely a good predictor of what is to come.

Would not anyone reading this and looking at the evidence assume (and this on a charitable reading) that Creighton had overlooked the caption? Had simply not seen it?

Imagine my surprise, then, on reading this (on the final page of Creighton’s article):

“. . . On June 16 . . . he draws the plain blank disc again from the Chamber (we know this because of the two dots under the snake and also because Vyse writes alongside “in Campbell’s Chamber”).”

That’s right, folks. He’s talking about the same drawing. Saying that the caption “in Campbell’s Chamber” is next to it tells us so.

What is Creighton trying to pull here?

On a charitable reading, we would say that Creighton was very, very confused when he wrote this. Well, charity is exhausted and I’m going to say what I think.

Creighton knew perfectly well that the drawing is captioned “in Campbell’s Chamber” when he denied that it was of the inscription in Campbell’s Chamber. He chose (in this earlier part of the article) not to mention the caption. We have to ask why. It was certainly relevant — relevant in the sense that it flatly contradicts what Creighton says. The answer “which suggests itself” is that it didn’t suit his purpose — didn’t suit what he was trying to put over to (or put over on) the reader.

When it suits him, the drawing is of an inscription found outside the pyramid and when it suits him, the same drawing is of an inscription in Campbell’s Chamber, on grounds of the caption “in Campbell’s Chamber” (which hasn’t just magically appeared but was there all along).

Creighton alleges that Vyse contradicted himself. Well, sorry, no, Creighton, you don’t prove self-contradiction by engaging in it yourself. That’s not how it works.

Whatever Creighton’s murky thought process, hia argument is self-contradictory — and self-contradiction is grounds in LOGIC for chucking the whole thing out without further discussion. I suggest we do so.

M.



Post Edited (03-Jun-14 22:42)

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Further comments on Creighton’s article [Thread Closed] 1076 Martin Stower 23-May-14 00:06
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 602 drew 23-May-14 04:09
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 708 Martin Stower 23-May-14 09:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 683 Skatha 23-May-14 04:46
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 645 Martin Stower 24-May-14 19:11
Desperate 608 LonelyAngel 23-May-14 13:11
Re: Desperate 687 Martin Stower 23-May-14 13:46
Mod Note > LonelyAngel – Reminder 707 Dr. Troglodyte 23-May-14 17:19
Re: Desperate 654 eyeofhorus33 23-May-14 17:56
Re: Desperate 673 Martin Stower 23-May-14 23:12
Re: Desperate 656 LonelyAngel 25-May-14 14:15
Re: Desperate 631 Brian Patterson 25-May-14 15:30
Re: Desperate 650 Martin Stower 25-May-14 15:48
Re: Desperate 628 Ahatmose 25-May-14 16:04
Re: Desperate 601 Martin Stower 25-May-14 16:56
Re: Desperate 724 Ahatmose 25-May-14 17:13
Re: Desperate 674 LonelyAngel 25-May-14 20:24
Re: Desperate 699 Martin Stower 26-May-14 00:19
Re: Desperate 614 cladking 25-May-14 22:30
Re: Desperate 567 eyeofhorus33 25-May-14 17:13
Re: Desperate 611 LonelyAngel 25-May-14 20:51
Re: Desperate 670 Martin Stower 25-May-14 22:47
Re: Desperate 593 eyeofhorus33 26-May-14 08:35
Further comments II 1237 Martin Stower 24-May-14 18:20
Re: Further comments II 605 Thanos5150 24-May-14 19:31
Re: Further comments II 614 Martin Stower 24-May-14 19:51
Re: Further comments II 640 Thanos5150 25-May-14 01:35
Re: Further comments II 579 drew 25-May-14 03:47
Re: Further comments II 671 eyeofhorus33 25-May-14 10:01
Re: Further comments II 625 Martin Stower 25-May-14 12:05
Re: Further comments II 676 Martin Stower 25-May-14 12:01
Further comments III 1176 Martin Stower 26-May-14 02:14
Re: Further comments III 647 Thanos5150 27-May-14 17:06
Re: Further comments III 652 Martin Stower 27-May-14 19:12
Re: Further comments III 635 Thanos5150 27-May-14 22:34
Re: Further comments III 634 Martin Stower 27-May-14 22:52
Re: Further comments III 655 Dr. Troglodyte 27-May-14 23:04
Re: Further comments III 639 Thanos5150 27-May-14 23:23
Re: Further comments III 619 Martin Stower 27-May-14 23:44
Re: Further comments III 603 Thanos5150 27-May-14 23:54
Re: Further comments III 639 Martin Stower 28-May-14 00:08
Re: Further comments III 616 Thanos5150 28-May-14 00:59
Re: Further comments III 666 Martin Stower 29-May-14 00:00
Re: Further comments III 675 Skatha 30-May-14 00:16
Re: Further comments III 619 Martin Stower 30-May-14 09:57
Re: Further comments III 642 Thanos5150 30-May-14 17:43
Re: Further comments III 667 randompHactor 30-May-14 18:17
Re: Further comments III 559 Martin Stower 30-May-14 19:25
Re: Further comments III 635 Thanos5150 30-May-14 20:21
Re: Further comments III 627 Martin Stower 30-May-14 20:43
Re: Further comments III 603 Thanos5150 30-May-14 20:56
Re: Further comments III 1034 Martin Stower 30-May-14 21:15
Re: Further comments III 703 Thanos5150 31-May-14 00:28
Re: Further comments III 656 AmadeusD 31-May-14 02:42
Re: Further comments III 652 Martin Stower 31-May-14 07:56
Re: Further comments III 611 sfbey 30-May-14 21:16
Re: Further comments III 650 Dr. Troglodyte 30-May-14 20:12
Re: Further comments III 677 Audrey 30-May-14 05:34
Re: Further comments III 620 Martin Stower 30-May-14 09:25
Re: Further comments III 652 Martin Stower 27-May-14 22:35
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 695 D-Archer 27-May-14 19:15
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 669 Martin Stower 27-May-14 19:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 645 D-Archer 27-May-14 19:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 668 Martin Stower 27-May-14 22:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 689 D-Archer 28-May-14 10:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 755 Martin Stower 28-May-14 13:10
Drawn...and quartered : ) 631 Thunderbird 30-May-14 03:52
Re: Drawn...and quartered : ) 658 Martin Stower 30-May-14 12:49
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 657 k_mand 30-May-14 16:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 657 Martin Stower 30-May-14 19:31
What have you missed? 597 Thunderbird 30-May-14 22:49
Re: What have you missed? 685 Martin Stower 30-May-14 23:09
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 665 k_mand 31-May-14 04:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 619 Martin Stower 31-May-14 08:17
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 618 k_mand 01-Jun-14 02:21
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 563 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 10:38
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 611 Thanos5150 01-Jun-14 17:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 606 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 19:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 666 Thanos5150 02-Jun-14 02:26
The cult of Khufu 683 Thunderbird 02-Jun-14 03:40
I’d buy that for a dollar! 627 Martin Stower 30-May-14 21:53
Not worth it ... 741 Ahatmose 31-May-14 01:55
Re: Not worth it ... 667 Brian Patterson 31-May-14 04:04
The Mud Slinging Has Started 631 Scott Creighton 31-May-14 09:17
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 712 Ahatmose 31-May-14 11:47
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 619 Scott Creighton 31-May-14 12:00
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 638 Martin Stower 31-May-14 12:45
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 612 Ahatmose 31-May-14 23:14
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 607 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 00:54
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 674 Audrey 01-Jun-14 05:04
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 655 Thunderbird 01-Jun-14 06:06
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 555 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 10:35
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 664 Audrey 01-Jun-14 17:43
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 639 eyeofhorus33 01-Jun-14 19:35
Follow the cult follow the... 514 Thunderbird 01-Jun-14 21:11
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 663 Audrey 03-Jun-14 03:54
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 667 eyeofhorus33 03-Jun-14 22:33
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 680 Audrey 05-Jun-14 02:07
Re: The Ring of the gods 677 Thunderbird 04-Jun-14 15:55
Re: The Ring of the gods 628 Audrey 05-Jun-14 05:36
Re: Mystery of the Gods 634 Thunderbird 02-Jun-14 01:39
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 675 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 10:33
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 622 Audrey 01-Jun-14 19:38
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 691 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 20:44
Arches and Chambers 568 loveritas 01-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Arches and Chambers 667 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 00:03
Definitely Puzzled 648 loveritas 02-Jun-14 11:30
Re: Definitely Puzzled 627 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 13:05
Re: Definitely Puzzled 579 Audrey 03-Jun-14 01:38
Re: Definitely Puzzled 628 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 01:56
Re: Definitely Puzzled 678 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 10:40
Re: Definitely Puzzled 668 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 11:21
Re: Definitely Puzzled 716 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 13:02
Re: Definitely Puzzled 676 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 13:34
Re: Definitely Puzzled 611 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 13:56
Re: Definitely Puzzled 630 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 14:03
How it really happened 1510 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 16:15
Re: How it really happened 719 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 17:25
Re: How it really happened 875 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 20:18
Re: Definitely Puzzled 647 Audrey 05-Jun-14 01:54
Re: Definitely Puzzled 650 Merrell 03-Jun-14 07:41
Re: Definitely Puzzled 617 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 10:32
Re: Definitely Puzzled 662 loveritas 03-Jun-14 11:12
Re: Definitely Puzzled 665 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 13:05
Re: Definitely Puzzled 636 loveritas 03-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Arches and Chambers 637 Merrell 02-Jun-14 11:36
Re: Arches and Chambers 647 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Jun-14 16:40
Re: Arches and Chambers 607 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 18:02
Re: Arches and Chambers 677 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Jun-14 18:29
Re: Arches and Chambers 624 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 20:46
Re: Forced entry 614 Thunderbird 02-Jun-14 06:31
Going Inside The Pyramid 661 loveritas 02-Jun-14 12:07
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 625 Audrey 01-Jun-14 23:08
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 637 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 00:02
Medjedu 703 loveritas 04-Jun-14 11:39
Wilkinson? 636 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 00:25
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 785 Martin Stower 31-May-14 12:44
Perring and Vyse 1011 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 00:33
Reference marks 677 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 14:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 658 Brian Patterson 03-Jun-14 04:06
Mod Warning > Messrs. Creighton and Stower 600 Dr. Troglodyte 03-Jun-14 16:51
How it really happened 602 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 16:54
From caption to self-contradiction 651 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 22:38
Why the drawings? 1146 Martin Stower 04-Jun-14 22:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 673 DUNE 04-Jun-14 22:46
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 601 sfbey 04-Jun-14 23:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 747 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 08:50
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 682 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 09:42
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 754 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 10:08
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 667 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 10:59
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 650 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 586 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 11:42
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 654 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 667 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 584 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:16
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 684 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:27
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 597 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:30
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 669 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 645 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:56
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 617 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 13:49
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 577 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 14:05
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 710 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:12
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 646 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:22
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 589 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 622 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 607 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:50
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 596 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:52
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 713 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 667 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 16:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 538 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:38
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 611 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 16:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 674 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:56
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 590 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 667 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:18
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 602 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:23
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 629 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:27
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 647 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 637 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:51
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 613 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:55
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 676 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 18:16
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 603 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 18:21
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 566 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:23
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 637 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 658 eyeofhorus33 05-Jun-14 17:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 616 cladking 05-Jun-14 16:11
Re: Ping for Audrey and Loveritas 594 Thunderbird 05-Jun-14 19:11
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 596 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 14:20
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 594 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 14:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 555 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:30
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 586 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:40
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 498 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 523 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 627 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:33
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 589 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:42
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 586 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 617 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 664 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:53
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 637 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 639 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 17:44
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 543 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:03
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 686 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 18:18
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 674 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:21
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 605 Audrey 05-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 684 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:37
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 558 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 694 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 800 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 23:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 760 Martin Stower 06-Jun-14 11:44
Mod Warning #2 > Scott Creighton 621 lukehancock 06-Jun-14 14:51
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 589 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 20:22
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 567 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 18:10
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 559 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:19
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 628 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:10
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 610 Audrey 05-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 657 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:47
Mod Warning #3 > Ahatmose 625 lukehancock 06-Jun-14 14:50
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 627 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:06
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 571 Martin Stower 04-Jun-14 23:20
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 719 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 10:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 730 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 11:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 651 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 867 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 11:39
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 639 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 647 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:00
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 676 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 617 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 14:34
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 543 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 14:58
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 625 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:10
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 582 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 16:13
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 611 eyeofhorus33 05-Jun-14 18:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 630 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:17


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