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Reviewing Creighton’s article in the light of Creighton’s response, I see that I did indeed miss a couple of things, both of them on the final page (really two thirds of a page) of the article. The more important of these is this: Creighton is aware of the caption “in Campbell’s Chamber” (next to the smaller drawing).

Here, for reference, is an image of (part of) the relevant page, with the captions ringed in blue and the “cross-reference marks” ringed in red:





Creighton’s Figure 2 is his own drawing of the drawing captioned “in Campbell’s Chamber”. We may note in passing (as here) that Creighton has also drawn the reference mark, having evidently mistaken it for part of the inscription. Creighton’s Figure 2 is connected to the image of the original by the usual apparatus in this article of red dotted lines.

What does Creighton say about this?


“. . . The second cartouche (Figure 2), also found by Vyse, is presented only in his handwritten journal (he didn’t publish this) and has clearly been found somewhere else since it is slightly different from the cartouche in the Great Pyramid; i.e., it has no horizontal lines in the small circle on the right. Had the cartouche in Figure 2 been copied from the cartouche in Campbell’s Chamber, then Vyse most surely would have copied the small lines into the plain circle that we observe in the circle of Figure 1. That he did not copy these lines tells us he did not observe such lines in the circle of this cartouche in Figure 2, which implies, of course, that the cartouche in Figure 2 is from a different source than the one in Campbell’s Chamber (Figure 1).”

Come again?

“. . . the cartouche in Figure 2 is from a different source than the one in Campbell’s Chamber . . .”

I will pose this as a question. Has Creighton not stated and argued, in the clearest possible terms, that the inscription represented by the smaller drawing, the one captioned “in Campbell’s Chamber”, is not the one in Campbell’s Chamber? Never mind the sheer eccentricity of this, which is merely a good predictor of what is to come.

Would not anyone reading this and looking at the evidence assume (and this on a charitable reading) that Creighton had overlooked the caption? Had simply not seen it?

Imagine my surprise, then, on reading this (on the final page of Creighton’s article):

“. . . On June 16 . . . he draws the plain blank disc again from the Chamber (we know this because of the two dots under the snake and also because Vyse writes alongside “in Campbell’s Chamber”).”

That’s right, folks. He’s talking about the same drawing. Saying that the caption “in Campbell’s Chamber” is next to it tells us so.

What is Creighton trying to pull here?

On a charitable reading, we would say that Creighton was very, very confused when he wrote this. Well, charity is exhausted and I’m going to say what I think.

Creighton knew perfectly well that the drawing is captioned “in Campbell’s Chamber” when he denied that it was of the inscription in Campbell’s Chamber. He chose (in this earlier part of the article) not to mention the caption. We have to ask why. It was certainly relevant — relevant in the sense that it flatly contradicts what Creighton says. The answer “which suggests itself” is that it didn’t suit his purpose — didn’t suit what he was trying to put over to (or put over on) the reader.

When it suits him, the drawing is of an inscription found outside the pyramid and when it suits him, the same drawing is of an inscription in Campbell’s Chamber, on grounds of the caption “in Campbell’s Chamber” (which hasn’t just magically appeared but was there all along).

Creighton alleges that Vyse contradicted himself. Well, sorry, no, Creighton, you don’t prove self-contradiction by engaging in it yourself. That’s not how it works.

Whatever Creighton’s murky thought process, hia argument is self-contradictory — and self-contradiction is grounds in LOGIC for chucking the whole thing out without further discussion. I suggest we do so.

M.



Post Edited (03-Jun-14 22:42)

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Further comments on Creighton’s article [Thread Closed] 902 Martin Stower 23-May-14 00:06
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 499 drew 23-May-14 04:09
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 599 Martin Stower 23-May-14 09:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 583 Skatha 23-May-14 04:46
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 537 Martin Stower 24-May-14 19:11
Desperate 496 LonelyAngel 23-May-14 13:11
Re: Desperate 580 Martin Stower 23-May-14 13:46
Mod Note > LonelyAngel – Reminder 605 Dr. Troglodyte 23-May-14 17:19
Re: Desperate 525 eyeofhorus33 23-May-14 17:56
Re: Desperate 563 Martin Stower 23-May-14 23:12
Re: Desperate 559 LonelyAngel 25-May-14 14:15
Re: Desperate 529 Brian Patterson 25-May-14 15:30
Re: Desperate 544 Martin Stower 25-May-14 15:48
Re: Desperate 521 Ahatmose 25-May-14 16:04
Re: Desperate 486 Martin Stower 25-May-14 16:56
Re: Desperate 619 Ahatmose 25-May-14 17:13
Re: Desperate 563 LonelyAngel 25-May-14 20:24
Re: Desperate 583 Martin Stower 26-May-14 00:19
Re: Desperate 515 cladking 25-May-14 22:30
Re: Desperate 462 eyeofhorus33 25-May-14 17:13
Re: Desperate 507 LonelyAngel 25-May-14 20:51
Re: Desperate 569 Martin Stower 25-May-14 22:47
Re: Desperate 490 eyeofhorus33 26-May-14 08:35
Further comments II 1048 Martin Stower 24-May-14 18:20
Re: Further comments II 497 Thanos5150 24-May-14 19:31
Re: Further comments II 510 Martin Stower 24-May-14 19:51
Re: Further comments II 537 Thanos5150 25-May-14 01:35
Re: Further comments II 473 drew 25-May-14 03:47
Re: Further comments II 567 eyeofhorus33 25-May-14 10:01
Re: Further comments II 517 Martin Stower 25-May-14 12:05
Re: Further comments II 568 Martin Stower 25-May-14 12:01
Further comments III 958 Martin Stower 26-May-14 02:14
Re: Further comments III 545 Thanos5150 27-May-14 17:06
Re: Further comments III 548 Martin Stower 27-May-14 19:12
Re: Further comments III 528 Thanos5150 27-May-14 22:34
Re: Further comments III 503 Martin Stower 27-May-14 22:52
Re: Further comments III 549 Dr. Troglodyte 27-May-14 23:04
Re: Further comments III 532 Thanos5150 27-May-14 23:23
Re: Further comments III 507 Martin Stower 27-May-14 23:44
Re: Further comments III 501 Thanos5150 27-May-14 23:54
Re: Further comments III 532 Martin Stower 28-May-14 00:08
Re: Further comments III 507 Thanos5150 28-May-14 00:59
Re: Further comments III 549 Martin Stower 29-May-14 00:00
Re: Further comments III 570 Skatha 30-May-14 00:16
Re: Further comments III 508 Martin Stower 30-May-14 09:57
Re: Further comments III 536 Thanos5150 30-May-14 17:43
Re: Further comments III 558 randompHactor 30-May-14 18:17
Re: Further comments III 448 Martin Stower 30-May-14 19:25
Re: Further comments III 528 Thanos5150 30-May-14 20:21
Re: Further comments III 519 Martin Stower 30-May-14 20:43
Re: Further comments III 494 Thanos5150 30-May-14 20:56
Re: Further comments III 849 Martin Stower 30-May-14 21:15
Re: Further comments III 573 Thanos5150 31-May-14 00:28
Re: Further comments III 521 AmadeusD 31-May-14 02:42
Re: Further comments III 553 Martin Stower 31-May-14 07:56
Re: Further comments III 497 sfbey 30-May-14 21:16
Re: Further comments III 546 Dr. Troglodyte 30-May-14 20:12
Re: Further comments III 575 Audrey 30-May-14 05:34
Re: Further comments III 521 Martin Stower 30-May-14 09:25
Re: Further comments III 545 Martin Stower 27-May-14 22:35
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 580 D-Archer 27-May-14 19:15
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 569 Martin Stower 27-May-14 19:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 540 D-Archer 27-May-14 19:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 569 Martin Stower 27-May-14 22:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 583 D-Archer 28-May-14 10:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 649 Martin Stower 28-May-14 13:10
Drawn...and quartered : ) 518 Thunderbird 30-May-14 03:52
Re: Drawn...and quartered : ) 555 Martin Stower 30-May-14 12:49
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 555 k_mand 30-May-14 16:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 554 Martin Stower 30-May-14 19:31
What have you missed? 492 Thunderbird 30-May-14 22:49
Re: What have you missed? 585 Martin Stower 30-May-14 23:09
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 562 k_mand 31-May-14 04:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 507 Martin Stower 31-May-14 08:17
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 513 k_mand 01-Jun-14 02:21
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 458 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 10:38
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 512 Thanos5150 01-Jun-14 17:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 506 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 19:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 540 Thanos5150 02-Jun-14 02:26
The cult of Khufu 575 Thunderbird 02-Jun-14 03:40
I’d buy that for a dollar! 522 Martin Stower 30-May-14 21:53
Not worth it ... 638 Ahatmose 31-May-14 01:55
Re: Not worth it ... 567 Brian Patterson 31-May-14 04:04
The Mud Slinging Has Started 513 Scott Creighton 31-May-14 09:17
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 609 Ahatmose 31-May-14 11:47
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 513 Scott Creighton 31-May-14 12:00
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 527 Martin Stower 31-May-14 12:45
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 511 Ahatmose 31-May-14 23:14
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 500 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 00:54
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 570 Audrey 01-Jun-14 05:04
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 548 Thunderbird 01-Jun-14 06:06
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 441 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 10:35
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 554 Audrey 01-Jun-14 17:43
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 533 eyeofhorus33 01-Jun-14 19:35
Follow the cult follow the... 413 Thunderbird 01-Jun-14 21:11
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 547 Audrey 03-Jun-14 03:54
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 558 eyeofhorus33 03-Jun-14 22:33
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 557 Audrey 05-Jun-14 02:07
Re: The Ring of the gods 565 Thunderbird 04-Jun-14 15:55
Re: The Ring of the gods 528 Audrey 05-Jun-14 05:36
Re: Mystery of the Gods 478 Thunderbird 02-Jun-14 01:39
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 564 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 10:33
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 514 Audrey 01-Jun-14 19:38
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 585 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 20:44
Arches and Chambers 460 loveritas 01-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Arches and Chambers 562 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 00:03
Definitely Puzzled 547 loveritas 02-Jun-14 11:30
Re: Definitely Puzzled 526 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 13:05
Re: Definitely Puzzled 474 Audrey 03-Jun-14 01:38
Re: Definitely Puzzled 531 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 01:56
Re: Definitely Puzzled 568 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 10:40
Re: Definitely Puzzled 557 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 11:21
Re: Definitely Puzzled 613 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 13:02
Re: Definitely Puzzled 553 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 13:34
Re: Definitely Puzzled 507 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 13:56
Re: Definitely Puzzled 520 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 14:03
How it really happened 1277 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 16:15
Re: How it really happened 611 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 17:25
Re: How it really happened 708 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 20:18
Re: Definitely Puzzled 531 Audrey 05-Jun-14 01:54
Re: Definitely Puzzled 540 Merrell 03-Jun-14 07:41
Re: Definitely Puzzled 510 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 10:32
Re: Definitely Puzzled 557 loveritas 03-Jun-14 11:12
Re: Definitely Puzzled 557 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 13:05
Re: Definitely Puzzled 526 loveritas 03-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Arches and Chambers 511 Merrell 02-Jun-14 11:36
Re: Arches and Chambers 539 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Jun-14 16:40
Re: Arches and Chambers 501 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 18:02
Re: Arches and Chambers 562 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Jun-14 18:29
Re: Arches and Chambers 517 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 20:46
Re: Forced entry 515 Thunderbird 02-Jun-14 06:31
Going Inside The Pyramid 557 loveritas 02-Jun-14 12:07
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 522 Audrey 01-Jun-14 23:08
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 535 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 00:02
Medjedu 569 loveritas 04-Jun-14 11:39
Wilkinson? 532 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 00:25
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 646 Martin Stower 31-May-14 12:44
Perring and Vyse 859 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 00:33
Reference marks 582 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 14:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 540 Brian Patterson 03-Jun-14 04:06
Mod Warning > Messrs. Creighton and Stower 500 Dr. Troglodyte 03-Jun-14 16:51
How it really happened 499 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 16:54
From caption to self-contradiction 524 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 22:38
Why the drawings? 953 Martin Stower 04-Jun-14 22:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 562 DUNE 04-Jun-14 22:46
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 498 sfbey 04-Jun-14 23:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 621 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 08:50
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 520 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 09:42
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 600 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 10:08
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 547 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 10:59
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 548 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 488 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 11:42
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 554 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 531 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 483 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:16
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 568 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:27
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 498 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:30
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 556 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 544 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:56
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 527 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 13:49
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 481 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 14:05
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 571 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:12
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 545 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:22
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 486 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 505 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 497 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:50
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 501 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:52
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 564 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 566 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 16:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 431 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:38
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 516 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 16:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 567 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:56
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 489 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 555 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:18
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 499 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:23
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 511 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:27
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 547 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 543 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:51
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 512 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:55
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 566 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 18:16
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 507 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 18:21
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 449 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:23
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 545 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 552 eyeofhorus33 05-Jun-14 17:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 507 cladking 05-Jun-14 16:11
Re: Ping for Audrey and Loveritas 492 Thunderbird 05-Jun-14 19:11
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 496 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 14:20
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 490 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 14:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 460 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:30
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 487 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:40
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 407 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 408 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 538 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:33
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 491 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:42
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 494 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 518 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 556 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:53
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 537 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 538 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 17:44
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 443 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:03
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 591 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 18:18
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 572 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:21
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 498 Audrey 05-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 575 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:37
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 464 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 588 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 689 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 23:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 639 Martin Stower 06-Jun-14 11:44
Mod Warning #2 > Scott Creighton 523 lukehancock 06-Jun-14 14:51
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 488 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 20:22
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 470 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 18:10
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 461 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:19
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 533 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:10
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 508 Audrey 05-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 554 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:47
Mod Warning #3 > Ahatmose 512 lukehancock 06-Jun-14 14:50
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 521 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:06
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 472 Martin Stower 04-Jun-14 23:20
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 614 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 10:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 580 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 11:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 546 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 735 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 11:39
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 445 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 539 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:00
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 533 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 518 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 14:34
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 444 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 14:58
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 526 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:10
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 471 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 16:13
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 522 eyeofhorus33 05-Jun-14 18:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 531 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:17


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