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Martin Stower wrote:

> Thanos5150 wrote:

> Perhaps you’d like first to explain how careful examination of
> evidence which Creighton examined carelessly is a rigmarole?

I was referring to the rigmarole that is this topic in general....

> Have you read it? Have you read Creighton’s article?

No. The cliff notes of these threads are suffice for my limited interest. The authenticity of this one cartouche is not the end-all-be-all as there are 20+ other lines of graffiti in these chambers whose provenance is not in question, ergo, someone wrote a bunch of graffiti on these blocks using red ochre paint at the time the relieving chambers were constructed/repaired which was obviously not 10,000BC or the like. It stands to reason to establish a true context for the one we must understand them all.

> Do you
> understand the point I’m making?

Of course, but I have no interest in getting caught up in the negativity that ensues when this topic is brought up, for one, but also for me the point is moot until the context of the other translations can be established.

> Vyse’s journal has no translations. Vyse’s knowledge of
> hieroglyphs was that of an intelligent layman with a guidebook
> in his hand: next to none.
> He left all that to Samuel Birch.
> It was largely beyond Birch. The most advanced contemporary
> opinion was that of Lepsius, who examined Hill’s facsimiles in
> 1838. He didn’t get everything right. Lots of this stuff was
> not adequately understood until years later.
>
> The other two well-attested crew names in the pyramid of Khufu
> are, in arguable translation, “Followers of the powerful White
> Crown of Khnum-khufu” and “Pure ones of Horus Medjedu”.

I knew this about Vyse, but thought he might have catalogued them in list form and attempted to translate them with his reference. I have seen many references to Birch so I suppose he would be the place to start my search. Yes, I am aware of the others, though hardly "uncontested" as to who they actually refer to, either the king or god, but like I said there there are nearly 20 others. It stands to reason we should know what they say to give context to the whole.

Thanks anyways, but if you can think of any particular reference that may be helpful I would appreciate it.



Post Edited (25-May-14 01:39)

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Further comments on Creighton’s article [Thread Closed] 1097 Martin Stower 23-May-14 00:06
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 619 drew 23-May-14 04:09
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 724 Martin Stower 23-May-14 09:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 698 Skatha 23-May-14 04:46
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 660 Martin Stower 24-May-14 19:11
Desperate 648 LonelyAngel 23-May-14 13:11
Re: Desperate 702 Martin Stower 23-May-14 13:46
Mod Note > LonelyAngel – Reminder 721 Dr. Troglodyte 23-May-14 17:19
Re: Desperate 672 eyeofhorus33 23-May-14 17:56
Re: Desperate 689 Martin Stower 23-May-14 23:12
Re: Desperate 671 LonelyAngel 25-May-14 14:15
Re: Desperate 645 Brian Patterson 25-May-14 15:30
Re: Desperate 668 Martin Stower 25-May-14 15:48
Re: Desperate 645 Ahatmose 25-May-14 16:04
Re: Desperate 617 Martin Stower 25-May-14 16:56
Re: Desperate 742 Ahatmose 25-May-14 17:13
Re: Desperate 689 LonelyAngel 25-May-14 20:24
Re: Desperate 716 Martin Stower 26-May-14 00:19
Re: Desperate 628 cladking 25-May-14 22:30
Re: Desperate 582 eyeofhorus33 25-May-14 17:13
Re: Desperate 628 LonelyAngel 25-May-14 20:51
Re: Desperate 686 Martin Stower 25-May-14 22:47
Re: Desperate 608 eyeofhorus33 26-May-14 08:35
Further comments II 1264 Martin Stower 24-May-14 18:20
Re: Further comments II 623 Thanos5150 24-May-14 19:31
Re: Further comments II 629 Martin Stower 24-May-14 19:51
Re: Further comments II 656 Thanos5150 25-May-14 01:35
Re: Further comments II 597 drew 25-May-14 03:47
Re: Further comments II 686 eyeofhorus33 25-May-14 10:01
Re: Further comments II 643 Martin Stower 25-May-14 12:05
Re: Further comments II 693 Martin Stower 25-May-14 12:01
Further comments III 1203 Martin Stower 26-May-14 02:14
Re: Further comments III 663 Thanos5150 27-May-14 17:06
Re: Further comments III 672 Martin Stower 27-May-14 19:12
Re: Further comments III 651 Thanos5150 27-May-14 22:34
Re: Further comments III 663 Martin Stower 27-May-14 22:52
Re: Further comments III 672 Dr. Troglodyte 27-May-14 23:04
Re: Further comments III 656 Thanos5150 27-May-14 23:23
Re: Further comments III 637 Martin Stower 27-May-14 23:44
Re: Further comments III 617 Thanos5150 27-May-14 23:54
Re: Further comments III 658 Martin Stower 28-May-14 00:08
Re: Further comments III 631 Thanos5150 28-May-14 00:59
Re: Further comments III 683 Martin Stower 29-May-14 00:00
Re: Further comments III 691 Skatha 30-May-14 00:16
Re: Further comments III 634 Martin Stower 30-May-14 09:57
Re: Further comments III 658 Thanos5150 30-May-14 17:43
Re: Further comments III 684 randompHactor 30-May-14 18:17
Re: Further comments III 575 Martin Stower 30-May-14 19:25
Re: Further comments III 651 Thanos5150 30-May-14 20:21
Re: Further comments III 643 Martin Stower 30-May-14 20:43
Re: Further comments III 619 Thanos5150 30-May-14 20:56
Re: Further comments III 1067 Martin Stower 30-May-14 21:15
Re: Further comments III 727 Thanos5150 31-May-14 00:28
Re: Further comments III 688 AmadeusD 31-May-14 02:42
Re: Further comments III 669 Martin Stower 31-May-14 07:56
Re: Further comments III 627 sfbey 30-May-14 21:16
Re: Further comments III 666 Dr. Troglodyte 30-May-14 20:12
Re: Further comments III 693 Audrey 30-May-14 05:34
Re: Further comments III 635 Martin Stower 30-May-14 09:25
Re: Further comments III 668 Martin Stower 27-May-14 22:35
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 714 D-Archer 27-May-14 19:15
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 685 Martin Stower 27-May-14 19:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 662 D-Archer 27-May-14 19:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 684 Martin Stower 27-May-14 22:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 709 D-Archer 28-May-14 10:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 771 Martin Stower 28-May-14 13:10
Drawn...and quartered : ) 648 Thunderbird 30-May-14 03:52
Re: Drawn...and quartered : ) 676 Martin Stower 30-May-14 12:49
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 673 k_mand 30-May-14 16:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 672 Martin Stower 30-May-14 19:31
What have you missed? 613 Thunderbird 30-May-14 22:49
Re: What have you missed? 701 Martin Stower 30-May-14 23:09
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 681 k_mand 31-May-14 04:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 635 Martin Stower 31-May-14 08:17
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 636 k_mand 01-Jun-14 02:21
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 577 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 10:38
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 626 Thanos5150 01-Jun-14 17:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 623 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 19:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 681 Thanos5150 02-Jun-14 02:26
The cult of Khufu 699 Thunderbird 02-Jun-14 03:40
I’d buy that for a dollar! 643 Martin Stower 30-May-14 21:53
Not worth it ... 757 Ahatmose 31-May-14 01:55
Re: Not worth it ... 682 Brian Patterson 31-May-14 04:04
The Mud Slinging Has Started 651 Scott Creighton 31-May-14 09:17
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 726 Ahatmose 31-May-14 11:47
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 635 Scott Creighton 31-May-14 12:00
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 654 Martin Stower 31-May-14 12:45
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 627 Ahatmose 31-May-14 23:14
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 626 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 00:54
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 691 Audrey 01-Jun-14 05:04
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 671 Thunderbird 01-Jun-14 06:06
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 574 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 10:35
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 680 Audrey 01-Jun-14 17:43
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 654 eyeofhorus33 01-Jun-14 19:35
Follow the cult follow the... 529 Thunderbird 01-Jun-14 21:11
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 688 Audrey 03-Jun-14 03:54
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 683 eyeofhorus33 03-Jun-14 22:33
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 693 Audrey 05-Jun-14 02:07
Re: The Ring of the gods 692 Thunderbird 04-Jun-14 15:55
Re: The Ring of the gods 644 Audrey 05-Jun-14 05:36
Re: Mystery of the Gods 672 Thunderbird 02-Jun-14 01:39
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 694 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 10:33
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 636 Audrey 01-Jun-14 19:38
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 707 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 20:44
Arches and Chambers 580 loveritas 01-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Arches and Chambers 683 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 00:03
Definitely Puzzled 662 loveritas 02-Jun-14 11:30
Re: Definitely Puzzled 642 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 13:05
Re: Definitely Puzzled 597 Audrey 03-Jun-14 01:38
Re: Definitely Puzzled 644 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 01:56
Re: Definitely Puzzled 693 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 10:40
Re: Definitely Puzzled 683 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 11:21
Re: Definitely Puzzled 730 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 13:02
Re: Definitely Puzzled 692 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 13:34
Re: Definitely Puzzled 625 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 13:56
Re: Definitely Puzzled 644 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 14:03
How it really happened 1556 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 16:15
Re: How it really happened 734 Scott Creighton 03-Jun-14 17:25
Re: How it really happened 897 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 20:18
Re: Definitely Puzzled 662 Audrey 05-Jun-14 01:54
Re: Definitely Puzzled 666 Merrell 03-Jun-14 07:41
Re: Definitely Puzzled 632 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 10:32
Re: Definitely Puzzled 677 loveritas 03-Jun-14 11:12
Re: Definitely Puzzled 682 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 13:05
Re: Definitely Puzzled 652 loveritas 03-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Arches and Chambers 654 Merrell 02-Jun-14 11:36
Re: Arches and Chambers 664 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Jun-14 16:40
Re: Arches and Chambers 623 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 18:02
Re: Arches and Chambers 696 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Jun-14 18:29
Re: Arches and Chambers 643 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 20:46
Re: Forced entry 629 Thunderbird 02-Jun-14 06:31
Going Inside The Pyramid 677 loveritas 02-Jun-14 12:07
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 640 Audrey 01-Jun-14 23:08
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 655 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 00:02
Medjedu 716 loveritas 04-Jun-14 11:39
Wilkinson? 649 Martin Stower 02-Jun-14 00:25
Re: The Mud Slinging Has Started 802 Martin Stower 31-May-14 12:44
Perring and Vyse 1028 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 00:33
Reference marks 689 Martin Stower 01-Jun-14 14:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 668 Brian Patterson 03-Jun-14 04:06
Mod Warning > Messrs. Creighton and Stower 612 Dr. Troglodyte 03-Jun-14 16:51
How it really happened 615 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 16:54
From caption to self-contradiction 669 Martin Stower 03-Jun-14 22:38
Why the drawings? 1172 Martin Stower 04-Jun-14 22:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 687 DUNE 04-Jun-14 22:46
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 619 sfbey 04-Jun-14 23:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 778 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 08:50
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 704 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 09:42
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 771 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 10:08
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 687 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 10:59
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 667 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 603 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 11:42
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 669 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 681 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 596 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:16
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 700 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:27
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 611 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:30
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 687 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 662 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:56
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 629 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 13:49
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 591 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 14:05
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 725 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:12
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 658 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:22
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 604 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 636 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 625 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:50
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 611 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:52
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 730 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 681 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 16:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 557 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:38
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 627 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 16:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 691 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:56
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 603 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:02
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 683 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:18
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 616 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:23
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 643 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:27
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 660 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 650 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:51
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 629 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 17:55
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 693 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 18:16
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 616 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 18:21
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 600 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:23
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 650 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 673 eyeofhorus33 05-Jun-14 17:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 629 cladking 05-Jun-14 16:11
Re: Ping for Audrey and Loveritas 609 Thunderbird 05-Jun-14 19:11
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 614 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 14:20
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 606 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 14:32
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 567 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:30
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 598 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 15:40
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 511 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 542 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 638 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:33
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 601 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 15:42
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 597 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 630 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 16:45
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 678 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:53
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 649 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 17:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 652 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 17:44
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 555 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:03
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 697 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 18:18
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 690 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:21
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 617 Audrey 05-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 696 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:37
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 573 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 708 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 814 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 23:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 773 Martin Stower 06-Jun-14 11:44
Mod Warning #2 > Scott Creighton 635 lukehancock 06-Jun-14 14:51
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 602 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 20:22
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 580 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 18:10
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 571 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 18:19
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 640 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:10
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 626 Audrey 05-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 669 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:47
Mod Warning #3 > Ahatmose 641 lukehancock 06-Jun-14 14:50
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 642 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:06
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 585 Martin Stower 04-Jun-14 23:20
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 732 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 10:01
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 749 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 11:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 669 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 881 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 11:39
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 684 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 11:48
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 663 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 12:00
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 708 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 12:14
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 627 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 14:34
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 556 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 14:58
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 638 Ahatmose 05-Jun-14 16:10
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 598 Scott Creighton 05-Jun-14 16:13
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 623 eyeofhorus33 05-Jun-14 18:25
Re: Further comments on Creighton’s article 644 Martin Stower 05-Jun-14 21:17


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