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hi Audrey

With regard to whether or not it may be wheat, I honestly don't know whether you just want to quibble: if I explain that the inscription supports the idea, you have made it clear in other posts that you question the reliability of 'translation' so do you want me to say yes in order that you can then question the reliability of the interpretation?

I don't want to engage in tit-for-tat or point scoring. I am happy to discuss with you my opinions - I am not so bold (or stupid) to make claims that my opinions are the right ones - but I don't wish to be demeaned in any way simply because I have a different viewpoint.

Might I sincerely suggest you consider learning to read Middle Egyptian and then you'll find out for yourself. It's a rewarding task and you clearly have a passionate interest in the history and ideas about the AE culture!

The 'w3s ankh' motif is associated variously with strength, success and life and is often a 'w3s djed ankh' motif, too. The 'w3s ankh' motif seems appropriate for a depiction of an agricultural cycle, relating to ideas of success in germination and life in the following season. The 'w3s ankh' motif can also be seen at the Ramasseum, the mortuary temple of Ramses II which interestingly has Osiride statues at its entrance. Here, I believe it to be associated with Ramses' success and power ('strength') as pharaoh. See here for the motif:



and here for the Osiride statues:




What is your 'interpretation' of the image depicting the mummified form of Osiris being watered, might I ask?

One of the reasons why I view it as a representation of seasonal renewal is the corroboration from other sources, like annual festivals where Osirian seed beds were filled with grain on the first day of the festival which coincided with the date of the annual planting of grain seeds. To my mind, this serves to strengthen the association of Osiris with the annual inundation and their agricultural cycle.

Cladking asked why the PT suggested that Egyptians were not to "tread" on the "oozing corpse" of Osiris, considering this "gobblety gook" as he so often does. I, on the other hand, interpret this to be an instruction not to tread the earth where crop seedlings may be growing as this could cause damage to the crop, failure in the harvest and, consequently, hunger for the masses.

I make no claims to being right, I'm simply sharing with you the way I piece the pieces of this puzzle together for myself.

Scott Creighton discusses it in a similar way here

[www.abovetopsecret.com]

and I find Scott's take on the 14 scattered pieces Of Osiris' body being represented by pyramids across Egypt quite intriguing. The PT is quite unequivocal about this:

"This king is Osiris, this pyramid of this king is Osiris, this construction of his is Osiris." (Pyramid Texts, 1657)

Your point about Plutarch's account of "Isis and Osiris" is correct in the sense that it was written during the first century AD. However, it is the earliest and only surviving, complete account of the myth in a language other than hieroglyphs which, admittedly, are still rightly disputed by academics and posters like Cladking, here on this forum. In the absence of anything else - and with Plutarch being two thousand years older than any Egyptologist - written during the Graeco-Roman period, it is arguably a more reliable source than any 19th, 20th or 21st century Egyptologist's 'interpretation' of the hieroglyphs and references to Osiris in the Pyramid Texts.

Lastly, without wishing to split hairs, the etymology of the word ritual is the Latinate 'ritualis' meaning "relating to rites." I acknowledged that "funerary rites, though variable, are part of the human condition." I agree that rituals are also, by extension, variable but the major and oldest world religions that I cited all practise prayer and believe in the idea of a soul transmigrating to either meet its maker or to begin afresh. I agree that funerary rites can be carried out without certain rituals but the ones I mentioned all share certain features.

As an atheist, it matters little to me and by citing a number of mono- and polytheistic world religions, I am certainly not projecting a familiarity with "Christian custom" onto others' rituals and rites.

:)

EDITED: To amend typo errors, to 'tidy up' a sentence or two and to add images.



Post Edited (16-Jun-14 23:32)

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 1186 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 560 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 528 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 544 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 537 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 612 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 578 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 483 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 529 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 561 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 443 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 528 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 530 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 587 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 641 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 537 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 478 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 606 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 518 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 518 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 467 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 529 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 596 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 521 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 493 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 489 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 585 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 522 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 613 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 590 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 517 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 565 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 460 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 528 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 521 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 627 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 522 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 500 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 470 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 556 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 616 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 648 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 443 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 533 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 573 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 574 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 499 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 532 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 450 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 538 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 545 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 580 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 527 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 637 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 530 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 534 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 572 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 557 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 522 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 557 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 582 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 515 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 524 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 488 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 507 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 756 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 418 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 445 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 563 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 549 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 489 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 520 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 510 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 670 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 545 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 485 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 483 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 470 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 479 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 486 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 482 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 501 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 561 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 500 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 445 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 446 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 509 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 495 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 490 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 521 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 512 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 499 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 508 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 465 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 472 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 482 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 483 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 529 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 401 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 510 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 468 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 472 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 460 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 421 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 491 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 476 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 472 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 559 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 485 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 466 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 344 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 511 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 485 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 487 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 483 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 458 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 522 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 428 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 488 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 488 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 464 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 447 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 457 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 513 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 496 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 394 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 454 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 443 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 443 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 497 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 486 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 448 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 449 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 661 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 493 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 508 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 933 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 766 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 560 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 494 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 453 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 578 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 465 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 486 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 521 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 483 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 501 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 489 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 504 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 505 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 388 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 409 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 423 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 468 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 488 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 450 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 429 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 367 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 358 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 371 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 406 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 324 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 443 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 521 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 427 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 395 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 437 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 380 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 353 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 314 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 318 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 277 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 279 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 265 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 345 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 308 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 292 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 275 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 313 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 281 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 321 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 245 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 291 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 280 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 304 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 204 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 234 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 277 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 260 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 266 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 238 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 293 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 238 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 247 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 244 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 238 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 230 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 243 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 219 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 242 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 269 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 258 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 338 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 348 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 354 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 392 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 360 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 291 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 279 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 248 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 255 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 283 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 257 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 242 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 283 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 270 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 378 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 265 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 301 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 418 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 239 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 251 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 227 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 268 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 243 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 232 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53


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