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hi Audrey

With regard to whether or not it may be wheat, I honestly don't know whether you just want to quibble: if I explain that the inscription supports the idea, you have made it clear in other posts that you question the reliability of 'translation' so do you want me to say yes in order that you can then question the reliability of the interpretation?

I don't want to engage in tit-for-tat or point scoring. I am happy to discuss with you my opinions - I am not so bold (or stupid) to make claims that my opinions are the right ones - but I don't wish to be demeaned in any way simply because I have a different viewpoint.

Might I sincerely suggest you consider learning to read Middle Egyptian and then you'll find out for yourself. It's a rewarding task and you clearly have a passionate interest in the history and ideas about the AE culture!

The 'w3s ankh' motif is associated variously with strength, success and life and is often a 'w3s djed ankh' motif, too. The 'w3s ankh' motif seems appropriate for a depiction of an agricultural cycle, relating to ideas of success in germination and life in the following season. The 'w3s ankh' motif can also be seen at the Ramasseum, the mortuary temple of Ramses II which interestingly has Osiride statues at its entrance. Here, I believe it to be associated with Ramses' success and power ('strength') as pharaoh. See here for the motif:



and here for the Osiride statues:




What is your 'interpretation' of the image depicting the mummified form of Osiris being watered, might I ask?

One of the reasons why I view it as a representation of seasonal renewal is the corroboration from other sources, like annual festivals where Osirian seed beds were filled with grain on the first day of the festival which coincided with the date of the annual planting of grain seeds. To my mind, this serves to strengthen the association of Osiris with the annual inundation and their agricultural cycle.

Cladking asked why the PT suggested that Egyptians were not to "tread" on the "oozing corpse" of Osiris, considering this "gobblety gook" as he so often does. I, on the other hand, interpret this to be an instruction not to tread the earth where crop seedlings may be growing as this could cause damage to the crop, failure in the harvest and, consequently, hunger for the masses.

I make no claims to being right, I'm simply sharing with you the way I piece the pieces of this puzzle together for myself.

Scott Creighton discusses it in a similar way here

[www.abovetopsecret.com]

and I find Scott's take on the 14 scattered pieces Of Osiris' body being represented by pyramids across Egypt quite intriguing. The PT is quite unequivocal about this:

"This king is Osiris, this pyramid of this king is Osiris, this construction of his is Osiris." (Pyramid Texts, 1657)

Your point about Plutarch's account of "Isis and Osiris" is correct in the sense that it was written during the first century AD. However, it is the earliest and only surviving, complete account of the myth in a language other than hieroglyphs which, admittedly, are still rightly disputed by academics and posters like Cladking, here on this forum. In the absence of anything else - and with Plutarch being two thousand years older than any Egyptologist - written during the Graeco-Roman period, it is arguably a more reliable source than any 19th, 20th or 21st century Egyptologist's 'interpretation' of the hieroglyphs and references to Osiris in the Pyramid Texts.

Lastly, without wishing to split hairs, the etymology of the word ritual is the Latinate 'ritualis' meaning "relating to rites." I acknowledged that "funerary rites, though variable, are part of the human condition." I agree that rituals are also, by extension, variable but the major and oldest world religions that I cited all practise prayer and believe in the idea of a soul transmigrating to either meet its maker or to begin afresh. I agree that funerary rites can be carried out without certain rituals but the ones I mentioned all share certain features.

As an atheist, it matters little to me and by citing a number of mono- and polytheistic world religions, I am certainly not projecting a familiarity with "Christian custom" onto others' rituals and rites.

:)

EDITED: To amend typo errors, to 'tidy up' a sentence or two and to add images.



Post Edited (16-Jun-14 23:32)

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 961 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 443 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 409 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 402 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 405 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 462 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 416 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 361 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 402 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 421 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 319 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 377 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 395 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 407 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 480 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 418 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 357 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 441 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 383 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 374 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 327 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 373 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 459 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 404 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 370 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 371 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 440 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 401 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 452 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 450 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 385 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 441 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 336 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 398 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 394 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 375 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 392 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 377 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 338 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 421 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 467 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 489 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 318 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 397 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 440 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 418 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 366 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 386 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 326 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 413 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 415 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 430 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 392 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 452 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 395 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 403 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 436 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 417 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 399 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 439 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 462 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 326 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 405 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 380 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 376 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 532 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 280 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 340 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 421 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 435 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 376 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 386 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 395 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 468 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 422 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 358 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 359 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 361 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 358 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 379 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 368 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 383 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 414 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 392 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 347 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 324 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 401 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 388 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 393 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 405 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 400 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 385 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 386 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 335 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 356 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 377 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 364 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 415 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 292 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 377 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 354 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 334 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 324 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 318 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 376 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 360 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 350 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 428 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 375 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 346 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 225 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 394 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 371 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 384 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 376 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 356 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 380 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 318 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 381 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 378 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 350 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 324 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 347 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 393 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 374 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 282 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 343 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 326 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 332 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 378 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 381 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 300 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 330 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 518 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 364 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 383 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 700 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 550 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 441 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 371 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 347 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 443 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 339 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 371 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 415 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 342 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 374 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 383 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 374 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 393 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 258 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 300 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 320 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 351 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 368 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 333 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 303 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 253 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 243 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 239 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 284 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 176 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 328 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 372 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 296 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 283 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 309 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 263 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 241 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 194 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 153 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 150 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 164 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 139 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 216 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 188 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 174 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 158 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 199 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 160 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 182 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 139 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 164 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 137 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 100 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 86 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 120 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 141 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 148 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 148 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 136 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 182 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 130 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 124 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 126 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 121 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 132 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 121 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 109 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 134 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 146 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 150 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 190 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 219 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 234 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 259 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 242 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 153 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 168 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 134 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 147 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 173 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 139 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 136 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 170 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 153 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 220 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 154 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 185 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 301 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 126 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 144 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 109 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 148 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 134 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 116 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53


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