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hi Audrey

With regard to whether or not it may be wheat, I honestly don't know whether you just want to quibble: if I explain that the inscription supports the idea, you have made it clear in other posts that you question the reliability of 'translation' so do you want me to say yes in order that you can then question the reliability of the interpretation?

I don't want to engage in tit-for-tat or point scoring. I am happy to discuss with you my opinions - I am not so bold (or stupid) to make claims that my opinions are the right ones - but I don't wish to be demeaned in any way simply because I have a different viewpoint.

Might I sincerely suggest you consider learning to read Middle Egyptian and then you'll find out for yourself. It's a rewarding task and you clearly have a passionate interest in the history and ideas about the AE culture!

The 'w3s ankh' motif is associated variously with strength, success and life and is often a 'w3s djed ankh' motif, too. The 'w3s ankh' motif seems appropriate for a depiction of an agricultural cycle, relating to ideas of success in germination and life in the following season. The 'w3s ankh' motif can also be seen at the Ramasseum, the mortuary temple of Ramses II which interestingly has Osiride statues at its entrance. Here, I believe it to be associated with Ramses' success and power ('strength') as pharaoh. See here for the motif:



and here for the Osiride statues:




What is your 'interpretation' of the image depicting the mummified form of Osiris being watered, might I ask?

One of the reasons why I view it as a representation of seasonal renewal is the corroboration from other sources, like annual festivals where Osirian seed beds were filled with grain on the first day of the festival which coincided with the date of the annual planting of grain seeds. To my mind, this serves to strengthen the association of Osiris with the annual inundation and their agricultural cycle.

Cladking asked why the PT suggested that Egyptians were not to "tread" on the "oozing corpse" of Osiris, considering this "gobblety gook" as he so often does. I, on the other hand, interpret this to be an instruction not to tread the earth where crop seedlings may be growing as this could cause damage to the crop, failure in the harvest and, consequently, hunger for the masses.

I make no claims to being right, I'm simply sharing with you the way I piece the pieces of this puzzle together for myself.

Scott Creighton discusses it in a similar way here

[www.abovetopsecret.com]

and I find Scott's take on the 14 scattered pieces Of Osiris' body being represented by pyramids across Egypt quite intriguing. The PT is quite unequivocal about this:

"This king is Osiris, this pyramid of this king is Osiris, this construction of his is Osiris." (Pyramid Texts, 1657)

Your point about Plutarch's account of "Isis and Osiris" is correct in the sense that it was written during the first century AD. However, it is the earliest and only surviving, complete account of the myth in a language other than hieroglyphs which, admittedly, are still rightly disputed by academics and posters like Cladking, here on this forum. In the absence of anything else - and with Plutarch being two thousand years older than any Egyptologist - written during the Graeco-Roman period, it is arguably a more reliable source than any 19th, 20th or 21st century Egyptologist's 'interpretation' of the hieroglyphs and references to Osiris in the Pyramid Texts.

Lastly, without wishing to split hairs, the etymology of the word ritual is the Latinate 'ritualis' meaning "relating to rites." I acknowledged that "funerary rites, though variable, are part of the human condition." I agree that rituals are also, by extension, variable but the major and oldest world religions that I cited all practise prayer and believe in the idea of a soul transmigrating to either meet its maker or to begin afresh. I agree that funerary rites can be carried out without certain rituals but the ones I mentioned all share certain features.

As an atheist, it matters little to me and by citing a number of mono- and polytheistic world religions, I am certainly not projecting a familiarity with "Christian custom" onto others' rituals and rites.

:)

EDITED: To amend typo errors, to 'tidy up' a sentence or two and to add images.



Post Edited (16-Jun-14 23:32)

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 992 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 465 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 434 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 424 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 430 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 487 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 439 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 384 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 425 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 442 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 344 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 401 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 419 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 428 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 508 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 440 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 378 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 463 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 407 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 405 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 353 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 400 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 482 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 428 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 396 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 394 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 467 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 425 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 478 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 473 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 409 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 467 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 362 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 424 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 421 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 399 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 415 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 404 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 366 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 445 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 495 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 517 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 345 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 426 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 467 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 446 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 391 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 413 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 342 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 438 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 438 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 456 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 419 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 480 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 420 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 427 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 461 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 443 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 427 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 462 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 486 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 353 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 429 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 390 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 399 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 556 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 315 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 361 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 444 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 457 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 399 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 416 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 416 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 490 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 450 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 380 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 383 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 384 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 382 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 402 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 392 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 405 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 435 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 411 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 367 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 344 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 431 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 408 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 402 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 426 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 428 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 407 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 408 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 357 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 375 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 396 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 385 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 437 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 311 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 399 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 377 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 357 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 344 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 340 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 398 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 381 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 372 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 453 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 396 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 371 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 246 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 415 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 391 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 407 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 398 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 370 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 399 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 329 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 402 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 397 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 373 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 345 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 369 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 413 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 399 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 304 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 363 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 349 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 344 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 399 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 402 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 320 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 351 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 541 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 393 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 407 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 728 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 584 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 457 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 391 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 369 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 466 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 361 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 397 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 436 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 369 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 399 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 405 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 395 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 416 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 281 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 319 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 328 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 370 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 393 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 356 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 330 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 275 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 264 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 268 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 306 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 198 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 348 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 394 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 315 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 307 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 331 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 283 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 265 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 215 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 174 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 175 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 186 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 161 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 247 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 211 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 199 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 181 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 223 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 183 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 217 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 160 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 186 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 159 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 119 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 108 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 149 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 167 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 169 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 172 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 159 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 205 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 150 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 149 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 146 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 140 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 151 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 144 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 131 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 156 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 168 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 170 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 217 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 240 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 256 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 282 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 270 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 175 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 192 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 159 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 168 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 192 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 162 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 162 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 193 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 177 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 243 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 175 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 207 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 324 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 147 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 165 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 130 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 169 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 153 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 137 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53


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