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hi Audrey

With regard to whether or not it may be wheat, I honestly don't know whether you just want to quibble: if I explain that the inscription supports the idea, you have made it clear in other posts that you question the reliability of 'translation' so do you want me to say yes in order that you can then question the reliability of the interpretation?

I don't want to engage in tit-for-tat or point scoring. I am happy to discuss with you my opinions - I am not so bold (or stupid) to make claims that my opinions are the right ones - but I don't wish to be demeaned in any way simply because I have a different viewpoint.

Might I sincerely suggest you consider learning to read Middle Egyptian and then you'll find out for yourself. It's a rewarding task and you clearly have a passionate interest in the history and ideas about the AE culture!

The 'w3s ankh' motif is associated variously with strength, success and life and is often a 'w3s djed ankh' motif, too. The 'w3s ankh' motif seems appropriate for a depiction of an agricultural cycle, relating to ideas of success in germination and life in the following season. The 'w3s ankh' motif can also be seen at the Ramasseum, the mortuary temple of Ramses II which interestingly has Osiride statues at its entrance. Here, I believe it to be associated with Ramses' success and power ('strength') as pharaoh. See here for the motif:



and here for the Osiride statues:




What is your 'interpretation' of the image depicting the mummified form of Osiris being watered, might I ask?

One of the reasons why I view it as a representation of seasonal renewal is the corroboration from other sources, like annual festivals where Osirian seed beds were filled with grain on the first day of the festival which coincided with the date of the annual planting of grain seeds. To my mind, this serves to strengthen the association of Osiris with the annual inundation and their agricultural cycle.

Cladking asked why the PT suggested that Egyptians were not to "tread" on the "oozing corpse" of Osiris, considering this "gobblety gook" as he so often does. I, on the other hand, interpret this to be an instruction not to tread the earth where crop seedlings may be growing as this could cause damage to the crop, failure in the harvest and, consequently, hunger for the masses.

I make no claims to being right, I'm simply sharing with you the way I piece the pieces of this puzzle together for myself.

Scott Creighton discusses it in a similar way here

[www.abovetopsecret.com]

and I find Scott's take on the 14 scattered pieces Of Osiris' body being represented by pyramids across Egypt quite intriguing. The PT is quite unequivocal about this:

"This king is Osiris, this pyramid of this king is Osiris, this construction of his is Osiris." (Pyramid Texts, 1657)

Your point about Plutarch's account of "Isis and Osiris" is correct in the sense that it was written during the first century AD. However, it is the earliest and only surviving, complete account of the myth in a language other than hieroglyphs which, admittedly, are still rightly disputed by academics and posters like Cladking, here on this forum. In the absence of anything else - and with Plutarch being two thousand years older than any Egyptologist - written during the Graeco-Roman period, it is arguably a more reliable source than any 19th, 20th or 21st century Egyptologist's 'interpretation' of the hieroglyphs and references to Osiris in the Pyramid Texts.

Lastly, without wishing to split hairs, the etymology of the word ritual is the Latinate 'ritualis' meaning "relating to rites." I acknowledged that "funerary rites, though variable, are part of the human condition." I agree that rituals are also, by extension, variable but the major and oldest world religions that I cited all practise prayer and believe in the idea of a soul transmigrating to either meet its maker or to begin afresh. I agree that funerary rites can be carried out without certain rituals but the ones I mentioned all share certain features.

As an atheist, it matters little to me and by citing a number of mono- and polytheistic world religions, I am certainly not projecting a familiarity with "Christian custom" onto others' rituals and rites.

:)

EDITED: To amend typo errors, to 'tidy up' a sentence or two and to add images.



Post Edited (16-Jun-14 23:32)

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 1051 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 489 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 456 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 461 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 460 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 538 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 495 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 408 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 457 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 470 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 367 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 440 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 451 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 456 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 544 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 463 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 405 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 505 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 445 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 438 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 383 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 444 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 516 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 453 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 419 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 418 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 500 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 449 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 516 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 523 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 432 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 493 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 388 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 452 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 448 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 436 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 440 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 428 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 393 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 484 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 533 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 554 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 371 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 450 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 494 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 492 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 419 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 461 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 378 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 462 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 468 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 489 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 457 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 532 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 457 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 455 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 499 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 483 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 449 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 482 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 511 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 385 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 452 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 415 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 426 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 609 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 344 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 386 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 487 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 479 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 425 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 450 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 443 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 526 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 474 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 417 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 421 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 406 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 405 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 421 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 415 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 442 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 475 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 436 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 388 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 372 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 452 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 431 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 422 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 448 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 454 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 428 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 434 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 396 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 400 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 416 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 415 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 463 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 332 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 434 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 399 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 386 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 381 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 361 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 425 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 403 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 405 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 489 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 420 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 392 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 269 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 451 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 414 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 430 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 419 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 392 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 424 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 358 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 424 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 420 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 401 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 371 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 392 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 442 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 429 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 326 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 385 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 373 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 373 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 432 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 420 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 358 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 373 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 579 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 416 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 439 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 797 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 655 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 487 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 425 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 390 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 519 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 393 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 418 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 457 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 418 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 434 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 428 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 428 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 440 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 319 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 345 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 349 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 395 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 417 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 376 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 352 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 299 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 296 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 301 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 333 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 246 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 375 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 442 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 359 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 328 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 367 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 315 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 290 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 238 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 208 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 208 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 208 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 184 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 270 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 237 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 226 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 207 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 245 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 211 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 263 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 180 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 217 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 212 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 144 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 137 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 167 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 202 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 192 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 198 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 180 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 229 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 172 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 185 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 178 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 166 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 173 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 174 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 155 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 179 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 209 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 193 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 257 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 263 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 285 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 321 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 297 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 230 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 214 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 180 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 193 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 214 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 182 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 184 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 214 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 205 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 285 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 199 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 235 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 346 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 174 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 186 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 159 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 210 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 180 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 163 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53


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