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eyeofhorus33 wrote:

> "They meant everything they said literally."
> In which case, why not write: "Water is a counter weight used
> to lift stones on the opposite side of the pyramid" ?

Every word in every sentence in modern language is dependent on context to provide definition. This is much of the source of confusion and misunderstanding. It is he reason that each listener walks away with a different understanding. It is why when messages are relayed hrough many individuals (Chinese telephone) the meaning is corrupted.

We are accustomed to deciphering meaning like this so simply don't notice when meaning isn't expressed like this. I can think of several ways to interpret your statement and if I lacked the referents and the culture that we share I'd probably misinterpret it. Water always has weight so how can it be used lift something? "Opposite" could be taken to mean anything. There is no "pyramid" until the structure is complete so what's being lifted?

There simply isn't only one language and the ancient language is unintelligible to us so it looks liuke gobbledty gook which Egyptologists believe is religion and incantation. Yet, even with all this wrirting they can't tell us the first thing about either the religion or magic without resorting to concepts from the book of the dead. Even after a century and a half of intensive study no two Egyptologists agree on the meaning of even the simplest concepts like "the eye of horus" (an opening for water).

> If the ancients expressed themselves through metaphor - as they
> patently seem to in the examples you cite - then you must
> acknowledge that it is not feasible to also claim: "They meant
> everything they said literally."

There's no metaphor. Tefnut literally makes the earth high beneath the sky. She literally uses her arms to do it. This is by definition and it is true metaphysically. Seker literally tows the earth by achieving balance. He does so by definition. There is only one way to express this concept though it can be viewed from a vurtual infinite number of perspectives. They could have said "shu embraces horus by means of his sister tefnut" but this might have broken a grammatical rule with two scientific terms in the same sentence. It would at least be unusual and somewhat convoluted. Shu embraced all things just as tefnut caused shu to embrace eacgh thing. Meaning was communicated in ways that sounded natural and my perspectives here are not wholly natural (take my word on it). More naturally "the wdn't offering is before seker and horus is behind him".

But don't forget almost all the writing that exists is the PT and the PT is just a silly little book of rituals. The authors would consider it hilarious that their descendents misunderstood it and that we misunderstand it in the exact same way. We misunderstand it in this way largely because it's only natural. We can hardly imagine a language where you can't sperak at all unless you know what you're talking about. The PT is more formal than everyday speech but the same rules still applied. This was the natural human language that people are born with. It is simply forgotten. It became too complicated for the average man so it failed.

> If that was the case then they would have expressed it
> literally, wouldn't they?

Everything was literal. They had no beliefs at all. Everything they knew was on the tip of their tongue. They thought in science.

> Or are you granting them poetic license to suit your own
> perspective here?

They probably didn't wax poetic too often. I don't know. All I have to understand them is a silly little book of ritual that is translated to fit the book of the dead.

Man fears the pyramid, time fears man.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 1007 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 473 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 440 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 433 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 436 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 499 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 450 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 391 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 434 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 448 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 350 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 407 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 426 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 437 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 516 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 446 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 384 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 472 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 419 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 414 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 359 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 409 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 488 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 436 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 402 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 403 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 472 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 429 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 489 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 483 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 416 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 473 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 369 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 429 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 427 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 407 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 423 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 411 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 372 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 454 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 501 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 531 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 351 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 431 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 474 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 453 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 397 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 421 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 347 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 444 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 445 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 462 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 425 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 493 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 428 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 434 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 470 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 450 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 434 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 467 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 491 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 364 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 436 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 395 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 405 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 568 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 327 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 367 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 457 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 462 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 405 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 424 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 424 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 502 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 457 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 386 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 398 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 391 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 389 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 408 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 398 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 419 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 448 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 418 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 373 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 351 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 438 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 415 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 407 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 432 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 434 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 414 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 417 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 368 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 383 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 403 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 391 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 445 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 316 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 408 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 382 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 364 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 353 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 347 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 405 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 387 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 380 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 459 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 402 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 377 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 253 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 426 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 396 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 414 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 403 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 375 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 405 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 334 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 408 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 404 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 377 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 352 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 375 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 419 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 409 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 309 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 370 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 355 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 350 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 406 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 407 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 330 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 358 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 548 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 399 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 415 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 739 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 599 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 462 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 406 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 373 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 476 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 369 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 402 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 443 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 380 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 405 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 410 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 404 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 423 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 287 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 325 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 333 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 376 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 400 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 362 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 336 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 281 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 273 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 279 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 311 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 205 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 354 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 405 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 329 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 312 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 338 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 289 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 271 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 221 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 180 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 180 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 193 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 169 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 252 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 216 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 204 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 187 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 231 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 192 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 232 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 166 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 198 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 166 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 129 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 116 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 155 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 174 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 174 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 180 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 166 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 213 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 157 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 161 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 152 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 147 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 158 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 149 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 138 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 163 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 177 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 176 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 230 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 247 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 263 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 290 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 279 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 182 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 199 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 164 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 175 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 198 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 167 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 168 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 198 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 183 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 255 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 181 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 214 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 329 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 153 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 173 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 136 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 176 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 160 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 146 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53

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