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eyeofhorus33 wrote:

> "They meant everything they said literally."
> In which case, why not write: "Water is a counter weight used
> to lift stones on the opposite side of the pyramid" ?

Every word in every sentence in modern language is dependent on context to provide definition. This is much of the source of confusion and misunderstanding. It is he reason that each listener walks away with a different understanding. It is why when messages are relayed hrough many individuals (Chinese telephone) the meaning is corrupted.

We are accustomed to deciphering meaning like this so simply don't notice when meaning isn't expressed like this. I can think of several ways to interpret your statement and if I lacked the referents and the culture that we share I'd probably misinterpret it. Water always has weight so how can it be used lift something? "Opposite" could be taken to mean anything. There is no "pyramid" until the structure is complete so what's being lifted?

There simply isn't only one language and the ancient language is unintelligible to us so it looks liuke gobbledty gook which Egyptologists believe is religion and incantation. Yet, even with all this wrirting they can't tell us the first thing about either the religion or magic without resorting to concepts from the book of the dead. Even after a century and a half of intensive study no two Egyptologists agree on the meaning of even the simplest concepts like "the eye of horus" (an opening for water).

> If the ancients expressed themselves through metaphor - as they
> patently seem to in the examples you cite - then you must
> acknowledge that it is not feasible to also claim: "They meant
> everything they said literally."

There's no metaphor. Tefnut literally makes the earth high beneath the sky. She literally uses her arms to do it. This is by definition and it is true metaphysically. Seker literally tows the earth by achieving balance. He does so by definition. There is only one way to express this concept though it can be viewed from a vurtual infinite number of perspectives. They could have said "shu embraces horus by means of his sister tefnut" but this might have broken a grammatical rule with two scientific terms in the same sentence. It would at least be unusual and somewhat convoluted. Shu embraced all things just as tefnut caused shu to embrace eacgh thing. Meaning was communicated in ways that sounded natural and my perspectives here are not wholly natural (take my word on it). More naturally "the wdn't offering is before seker and horus is behind him".

But don't forget almost all the writing that exists is the PT and the PT is just a silly little book of rituals. The authors would consider it hilarious that their descendents misunderstood it and that we misunderstand it in the exact same way. We misunderstand it in this way largely because it's only natural. We can hardly imagine a language where you can't sperak at all unless you know what you're talking about. The PT is more formal than everyday speech but the same rules still applied. This was the natural human language that people are born with. It is simply forgotten. It became too complicated for the average man so it failed.

> If that was the case then they would have expressed it
> literally, wouldn't they?

Everything was literal. They had no beliefs at all. Everything they knew was on the tip of their tongue. They thought in science.

> Or are you granting them poetic license to suit your own
> perspective here?

They probably didn't wax poetic too often. I don't know. All I have to understand them is a silly little book of ritual that is translated to fit the book of the dead.

Man fears the pyramid, time fears man.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 985 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 458 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 425 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 418 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 423 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 479 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 433 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 376 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 416 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 436 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 336 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 392 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 410 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 421 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 502 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 434 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 372 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 457 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 399 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 394 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 342 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 390 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 473 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 419 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 386 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 386 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 456 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 417 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 469 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 464 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 401 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 457 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 353 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 414 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 409 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 390 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 406 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 394 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 357 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 435 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 484 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 505 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 334 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 414 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 456 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 434 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 382 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 404 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 336 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 430 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 428 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 445 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 408 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 472 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 410 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 418 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 452 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 433 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 417 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 453 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 477 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 343 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 421 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 385 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 392 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 548 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 309 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 354 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 437 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 449 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 391 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 407 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 409 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 483 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 445 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 374 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 378 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 380 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 376 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 396 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 385 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 398 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 429 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 407 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 363 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 339 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 425 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 403 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 400 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 420 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 421 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 400 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 401 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 350 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 371 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 391 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 379 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 432 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 305 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 394 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 370 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 350 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 338 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 334 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 394 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 374 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 365 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 446 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 389 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 366 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 242 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 409 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 385 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 401 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 393 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 367 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 394 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 324 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 397 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 391 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 367 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 338 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 364 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 408 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 394 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 298 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 358 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 343 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 342 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 394 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 395 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 315 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 345 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 535 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 381 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 400 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 720 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 575 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 451 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 386 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 363 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 458 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 356 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 392 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 430 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 362 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 395 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 398 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 390 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 411 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 275 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 315 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 325 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 366 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 384 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 351 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 319 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 270 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 259 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 260 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 300 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 193 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 343 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 389 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 310 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 303 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 326 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 277 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 259 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 209 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 169 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 166 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 181 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 156 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 241 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 205 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 193 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 175 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 219 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 178 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 209 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 155 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 181 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 153 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 113 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 101 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 143 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 159 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 163 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 166 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 154 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 198 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 145 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 144 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 141 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 136 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 145 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 138 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 124 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 151 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 163 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 165 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 210 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 234 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 250 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 274 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 261 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 169 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 186 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 152 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 162 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 187 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 156 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 153 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 187 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 171 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 239 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 169 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 201 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 316 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 143 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 160 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 124 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 163 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 147 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 131 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53

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