Mysteries :  The Official forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
eyeofhorus33 wrote:

> "They meant everything they said literally."
> In which case, why not write: "Water is a counter weight used
> to lift stones on the opposite side of the pyramid" ?

Every word in every sentence in modern language is dependent on context to provide definition. This is much of the source of confusion and misunderstanding. It is he reason that each listener walks away with a different understanding. It is why when messages are relayed hrough many individuals (Chinese telephone) the meaning is corrupted.

We are accustomed to deciphering meaning like this so simply don't notice when meaning isn't expressed like this. I can think of several ways to interpret your statement and if I lacked the referents and the culture that we share I'd probably misinterpret it. Water always has weight so how can it be used lift something? "Opposite" could be taken to mean anything. There is no "pyramid" until the structure is complete so what's being lifted?

There simply isn't only one language and the ancient language is unintelligible to us so it looks liuke gobbledty gook which Egyptologists believe is religion and incantation. Yet, even with all this wrirting they can't tell us the first thing about either the religion or magic without resorting to concepts from the book of the dead. Even after a century and a half of intensive study no two Egyptologists agree on the meaning of even the simplest concepts like "the eye of horus" (an opening for water).

> If the ancients expressed themselves through metaphor - as they
> patently seem to in the examples you cite - then you must
> acknowledge that it is not feasible to also claim: "They meant
> everything they said literally."

There's no metaphor. Tefnut literally makes the earth high beneath the sky. She literally uses her arms to do it. This is by definition and it is true metaphysically. Seker literally tows the earth by achieving balance. He does so by definition. There is only one way to express this concept though it can be viewed from a vurtual infinite number of perspectives. They could have said "shu embraces horus by means of his sister tefnut" but this might have broken a grammatical rule with two scientific terms in the same sentence. It would at least be unusual and somewhat convoluted. Shu embraced all things just as tefnut caused shu to embrace eacgh thing. Meaning was communicated in ways that sounded natural and my perspectives here are not wholly natural (take my word on it). More naturally "the wdn't offering is before seker and horus is behind him".

But don't forget almost all the writing that exists is the PT and the PT is just a silly little book of rituals. The authors would consider it hilarious that their descendents misunderstood it and that we misunderstand it in the exact same way. We misunderstand it in this way largely because it's only natural. We can hardly imagine a language where you can't sperak at all unless you know what you're talking about. The PT is more formal than everyday speech but the same rules still applied. This was the natural human language that people are born with. It is simply forgotten. It became too complicated for the average man so it failed.

> If that was the case then they would have expressed it
> literally, wouldn't they?

Everything was literal. They had no beliefs at all. Everything they knew was on the tip of their tongue. They thought in science.

> Or are you granting them poetic license to suit your own
> perspective here?

They probably didn't wax poetic too often. I don't know. All I have to understand them is a silly little book of ritual that is translated to fit the book of the dead.

Man fears the pyramid, time fears man.

Options: ReplyQuote

Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 1064 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 498 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 463 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 468 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 466 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 545 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 505 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 415 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 465 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 477 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 375 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 453 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 458 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 463 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 550 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 469 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 411 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 514 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 450 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 443 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 390 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 461 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 521 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 458 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 426 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 425 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 507 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 455 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 525 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 529 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 441 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 498 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 395 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 460 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 454 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 440 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 449 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 436 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 403 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 490 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 546 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 560 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 376 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 455 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 499 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 499 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 427 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 466 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 384 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 468 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 476 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 495 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 469 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 543 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 464 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 462 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 506 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 490 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 456 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 489 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 517 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 393 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 458 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 420 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 433 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 617 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 352 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 392 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 494 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 485 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 430 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 458 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 451 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 533 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 481 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 424 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 426 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 413 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 413 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 426 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 421 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 447 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 494 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 443 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 393 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 380 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 457 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 437 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 429 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 455 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 458 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 434 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 442 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 405 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 408 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 424 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 422 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 469 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 337 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 451 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 405 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 393 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 386 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 368 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 431 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 410 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 414 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 494 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 427 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 399 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 276 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 456 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 421 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 435 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 427 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 398 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 430 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 368 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 431 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 428 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 406 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 381 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 398 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 447 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 436 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 332 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 391 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 379 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 377 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 438 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 425 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 365 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 380 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 585 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 423 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 445 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 807 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 670 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 498 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 432 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 395 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 524 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 402 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 425 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 465 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 426 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 440 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 436 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 444 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 445 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 326 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 351 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 355 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 405 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 423 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 381 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 359 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 305 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 303 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 312 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 340 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 256 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 382 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 449 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 365 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 334 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 377 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 323 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 295 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 243 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 217 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 213 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 214 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 192 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 276 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 245 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 231 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 214 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 252 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 218 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 269 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 188 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 224 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 218 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 152 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 142 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 176 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 208 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 200 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 204 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 186 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 234 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 180 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 190 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 185 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 173 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 179 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 180 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 160 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 184 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 214 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 199 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 265 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 268 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 294 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 330 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 304 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 235 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 222 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 185 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 201 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 220 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 189 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 189 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 221 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 212 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 293 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 204 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 240 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 352 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 180 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 191 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 166 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 216 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 186 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 169 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.