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SC: So now the inference is that Walter Allen was a fraudster and made it all up?

CM: If you re-read what I posted, you'll realise that what I'm saying is that there can be problems, and unanswered questions, when dealing with this sort of document.

SC: No one doubts there are problems but the problems are not limited to the 'word/testimony' of Brewer/Allen - they apply equally to the 'word/testimony' of Howard-Vyse. So, how do we try and find an answer to the "unanswered questions" these 'testimonies' present? Given that the parties involved have all departed this mortal coil and are unavailable to provide any answers to any further questions, do you not think we have to now look beyond the testimonies of BOTH Brewer/Allen and Howard-Vyse, to go to the source material itself, i.e. the inscriptions?

Quote

SC: Why would he do that? Do you have any proof of that?

CM: These questions go beyond what I discussed in my previous post, in which - to repeat - I merely pointed out the potential problems with this sort of document.

SC: No - that is just a copout. We're all aware of the problems such 'testimonies' present. You are keen to point out that the 'testimony' that the Brewer/Allen document presents cannot (yet) be verified. That doesn't mean it is wrong or that it does not present us with the truth. Why are you reluctant to consider as a possiblity that this Brewer/Allen 'testimony' presents the truth?

Quote

SC: You do realise that even without the Brewer/Allen testimony, Tricky-Dicky's journal, with regard to the discovery of the inscriptions, remains in no less a questionable position. Do we then have the 'word' of two liars/fraudsters? It's possible (though I personally doubt it). So, how do you propose the truth of the situation might be determined - what's your thoughts on that? How might this cloud of uncertainty be removed? Would it not seem sensible to go to the original, primary source i.e. the inscriptions themselves and try to scientifically verify their authenticity?

CM: I think what would be even more sensible would be to consider very carefully the various historical contexts under discussion, and the various historical materials available to us, and see what might be gathered from that exercise.

SC: You can couch your words or frame them in any way you like, but you have essentially said (above) what I am already advocating - "...to consider very carefully ... the various historical materials available to us, and see what might be gathered from that exerceise." Do you not think a very careful consideration of the historical materials available to us should also include a forensic scientific consideration of the actual primary evidence, i.e. the inscriptions?

SC



Post Edited (20-May-13 14:29)

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 987 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 460 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 426 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 419 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 424 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 481 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 434 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 377 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 417 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 437 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 337 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 393 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 412 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 422 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 503 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 435 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 373 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 458 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 400 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 397 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 344 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 392 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 475 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 420 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 387 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 387 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 458 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 418 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 470 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 465 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 402 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 459 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 354 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 415 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 411 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 392 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 407 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 395 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 358 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 436 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 486 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 506 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 336 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 415 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 458 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 436 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 383 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 405 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 338 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 431 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 430 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 448 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 409 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 473 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 412 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 419 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 453 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 434 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 418 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 454 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 478 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 345 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 422 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 386 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 392 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 549 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 311 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 356 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 439 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 451 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 392 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 411 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 412 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 486 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 446 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 374 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 379 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 380 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 376 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 397 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 387 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 398 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 430 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 407 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 363 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 339 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 425 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 403 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 401 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 421 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 422 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 400 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 402 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 350 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 371 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 391 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 380 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 433 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 306 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 394 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 370 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 351 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 338 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 334 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 394 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 376 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 365 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 446 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 390 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 366 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 242 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 409 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 386 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 401 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 393 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 368 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 395 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 326 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 397 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 392 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 368 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 338 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 364 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 409 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 394 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 298 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 359 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 343 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 343 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 394 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 396 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 315 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 346 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 537 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 382 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 402 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 722 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 576 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 453 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 387 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 364 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 458 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 357 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 392 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 430 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 362 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 395 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 398 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 391 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 411 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 275 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 315 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 326 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 366 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 384 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 351 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 319 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 270 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 259 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 261 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 300 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 193 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 343 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 389 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 311 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 303 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 326 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 278 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 260 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 209 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 169 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 167 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 181 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 156 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 242 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 206 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 194 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 176 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 219 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 178 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 209 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 156 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 182 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 153 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 113 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 102 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 143 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 160 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 164 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 166 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 154 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 199 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 145 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 144 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 142 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 136 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 145 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 140 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 124 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 151 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 163 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 165 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 211 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 235 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 252 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 276 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 264 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 171 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 186 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 152 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 162 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 187 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 157 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 153 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 187 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 171 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 239 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 170 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 202 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 316 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 143 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 160 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 124 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 163 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 147 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 131 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53


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