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And around in circles the merry-go-round travels. One would have thought the number of times we've gone round on this we'd all be spewing our guts by now. Nevertheless, once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more.....

Quote

MS: So the full chain of hearsay is this:

Humphries Brewer → William Marchant Brewer → Helen Pattengill (née Brewer) → Walter’s mother → Walter M. Allen → Zecharia Sitchin

SC: What? Are you having a giggle here or what? Surely you jest? Surely you understand the difference between a primary source and secondary source? Who first wrote the words "Faint marks were repainted, some were new"? Was it Walter Allen or was it Sitchin? Yes, Stower - it was Walter Allen. Sitchin merely QUOTED Walter Allen. You do understand the difference, Stower, don't you? Of course you do:

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"...By the way, despite the way you've quoted it, I didn't write the article." - Martin Stower

So, you clearly understand the difference between someone who WRITES an original piece (the original source) and someone who subsequently QUOTES that original source. Is it then the case on Planet Stower that anyone who QUOTES someone else is to be held responsible and accountable for the original quote? In short, is the person who delivers the message responsible for the content of the message? Am I responsible for something Hawass wrote simply because I presented his quote in my last book? Of course I am not and by your statement above, I do not believe you really do consider that to be the case either. So do tell us then, Stower, why do you insist that Sitchin is somehow responsible for something written entirely by someone else and which he (Sitchin) was merely the messenger (i.e. Sitchin was merely the person who made public Walter Allen's hitherto private notes)? Explain yourself.

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MS: To complete your analogy:

The person who slips you the note is a known liar.

SC: Irrelevant because the "known liar" did not write the note. See above about primary and secondary sources.

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MS: The known fraudster was never convicted of fraud.

SC: Charges were certainly leveled against him but he certainly wasn't formally convicted. However, he DID fraudulently secure for himself 932 votes in the 1807 election and, as such, he SHOULD have been convicted for it:

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Vyse is known to have paid all but 78 of those who voted for him at the rate of £3 8s. for a plumper and £1 14s. for a split vote. - From your own link.

That's 932 crimes, 932 instances of electoral fraud, 932 fraudulent notes/votes. So, regardless of there not being a formal conviction (did partisan politics prevent Staple's Petition from succeeding as was often the case in those times? Did Tricky Dicky pay Staple to drop his Petition?), the evidence is very clear that Tricky Dicky was a fraudster nonetheless, a view you evidently share, to wit:

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"Not that this lets him [Howard-Vyse] off the hook: it looks like the petition [of Philip Staple] should have succeeded." - Martin Stower

SC: I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment and I am sure many others will too. With the benefit of historical perspective, Tricky Dicky has been found guilty as charged in the court of public opinion.

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MS: The known fraudster was never caught passing dud banknotes.

SC: He certainly secured 932 fraudulent notes/votes - see your link above. With regards to the latest fraud allegations, the jury is still out.

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MS: Experts say the banknotes he did pass are genuine.

SC: And incredulously they came to that conclusion without any forensic tests being done whatsoever. The experts simply accepted the fraudster on his word.

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MS: The fraud of which there is some evidence is one perpetrated also by such well-known moral lepers as William Wilberforce and Lord Cochrane.

SC: Tricky-Dicky perpetrated fraud. See your own quote above, in which you imply such. All that is needed now is further evidence to either convict or exonerate him of the latest fraud allegation.

SC



Post Edited (18-May-13 11:02)

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 957 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 437 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 407 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 400 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 404 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 460 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 415 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 358 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 397 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 418 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 315 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 376 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 393 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 404 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 473 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 412 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 354 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 439 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 381 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 372 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 325 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 370 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 458 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 399 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 368 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 369 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 439 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 399 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 450 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 446 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 382 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 437 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 333 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 393 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 393 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 372 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 389 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 375 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 336 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 418 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 466 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 485 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 317 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 396 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 437 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 416 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 363 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 385 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 324 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 408 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 412 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 426 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 390 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 447 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 393 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 398 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 434 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 416 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 393 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 436 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 458 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 324 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 403 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 377 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 373 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 528 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 278 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 337 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 420 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 432 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 375 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 382 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 392 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 466 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 416 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 356 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 356 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 359 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 357 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 377 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 367 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 380 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 411 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 390 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 345 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 321 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 399 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 386 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 391 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 403 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 393 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 382 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 385 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 332 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 354 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 374 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 362 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 412 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 290 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 375 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 352 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 331 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 320 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 317 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 374 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 356 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 346 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 427 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 371 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 345 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 223 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 391 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 370 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 382 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 375 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 352 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 377 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 314 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 378 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 376 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 349 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 321 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 345 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 391 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 370 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 281 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 339 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 322 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 330 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 374 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 380 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 298 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 327 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 510 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 355 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 380 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 689 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 541 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 437 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 368 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 345 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 440 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 336 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 370 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 411 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 340 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 372 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 379 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 372 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 388 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 257 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 297 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 315 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 347 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 366 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 329 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 300 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 250 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 240 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 237 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 280 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 174 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 323 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 367 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 294 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 281 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 305 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 261 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 239 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 191 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 148 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 147 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 161 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 138 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 211 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 185 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 172 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 156 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 197 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 157 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 181 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 136 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 162 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 135 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 98 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 84 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 115 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 140 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 144 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 146 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 135 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 179 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 127 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 122 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 124 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 117 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 130 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 119 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 107 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 130 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 142 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 146 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 183 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 216 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 232 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 257 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 238 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 151 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 166 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 132 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 146 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 170 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 137 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 134 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 166 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 151 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 215 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 152 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 184 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 299 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 124 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 140 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 108 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 145 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 130 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 113 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53


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