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And around in circles the merry-go-round travels. One would have thought the number of times we've gone round on this we'd all be spewing our guts by now. Nevertheless, once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more.....

Quote

MS: So the full chain of hearsay is this:

Humphries Brewer → William Marchant Brewer → Helen Pattengill (née Brewer) → Walter’s mother → Walter M. Allen → Zecharia Sitchin

SC: What? Are you having a giggle here or what? Surely you jest? Surely you understand the difference between a primary source and secondary source? Who first wrote the words "Faint marks were repainted, some were new"? Was it Walter Allen or was it Sitchin? Yes, Stower - it was Walter Allen. Sitchin merely QUOTED Walter Allen. You do understand the difference, Stower, don't you? Of course you do:

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"...By the way, despite the way you've quoted it, I didn't write the article." - Martin Stower

So, you clearly understand the difference between someone who WRITES an original piece (the original source) and someone who subsequently QUOTES that original source. Is it then the case on Planet Stower that anyone who QUOTES someone else is to be held responsible and accountable for the original quote? In short, is the person who delivers the message responsible for the content of the message? Am I responsible for something Hawass wrote simply because I presented his quote in my last book? Of course I am not and by your statement above, I do not believe you really do consider that to be the case either. So do tell us then, Stower, why do you insist that Sitchin is somehow responsible for something written entirely by someone else and which he (Sitchin) was merely the messenger (i.e. Sitchin was merely the person who made public Walter Allen's hitherto private notes)? Explain yourself.

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MS: To complete your analogy:

The person who slips you the note is a known liar.

SC: Irrelevant because the "known liar" did not write the note. See above about primary and secondary sources.

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MS: The known fraudster was never convicted of fraud.

SC: Charges were certainly leveled against him but he certainly wasn't formally convicted. However, he DID fraudulently secure for himself 932 votes in the 1807 election and, as such, he SHOULD have been convicted for it:

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Vyse is known to have paid all but 78 of those who voted for him at the rate of £3 8s. for a plumper and £1 14s. for a split vote. - From your own link.

That's 932 crimes, 932 instances of electoral fraud, 932 fraudulent notes/votes. So, regardless of there not being a formal conviction (did partisan politics prevent Staple's Petition from succeeding as was often the case in those times? Did Tricky Dicky pay Staple to drop his Petition?), the evidence is very clear that Tricky Dicky was a fraudster nonetheless, a view you evidently share, to wit:

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"Not that this lets him [Howard-Vyse] off the hook: it looks like the petition [of Philip Staple] should have succeeded." - Martin Stower

SC: I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment and I am sure many others will too. With the benefit of historical perspective, Tricky Dicky has been found guilty as charged in the court of public opinion.

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MS: The known fraudster was never caught passing dud banknotes.

SC: He certainly secured 932 fraudulent notes/votes - see your link above. With regards to the latest fraud allegations, the jury is still out.

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MS: Experts say the banknotes he did pass are genuine.

SC: And incredulously they came to that conclusion without any forensic tests being done whatsoever. The experts simply accepted the fraudster on his word.

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MS: The fraud of which there is some evidence is one perpetrated also by such well-known moral lepers as William Wilberforce and Lord Cochrane.

SC: Tricky-Dicky perpetrated fraud. See your own quote above, in which you imply such. All that is needed now is further evidence to either convict or exonerate him of the latest fraud allegation.

SC



Post Edited (18-May-13 11:02)

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 987 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 460 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 426 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 419 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 424 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 481 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 434 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 377 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 418 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 437 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 337 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 393 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 412 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 422 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 503 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 435 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 373 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 458 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 400 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 397 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 344 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 392 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 475 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 420 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 387 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 387 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 458 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 418 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 470 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 465 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 402 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 459 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 354 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 415 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 411 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 392 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 407 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 395 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 358 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 436 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 487 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 506 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 336 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 415 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 458 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 436 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 383 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 405 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 338 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 431 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 430 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 448 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 409 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 473 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 412 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 419 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 453 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 434 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 418 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 454 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 478 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 345 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 422 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 386 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 392 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 549 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 311 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 356 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 439 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 451 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 392 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 411 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 412 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 486 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 446 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 374 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 379 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 380 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 376 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 397 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 387 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 398 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 430 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 407 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 363 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 339 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 425 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 403 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 401 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 421 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 422 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 400 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 402 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 350 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 371 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 391 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 380 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 433 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 306 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 394 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 370 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 351 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 338 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 334 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 394 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 376 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 365 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 446 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 390 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 366 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 242 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 409 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 386 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 401 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 393 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 368 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 395 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 326 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 397 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 392 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 368 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 338 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 364 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 409 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 394 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 298 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 359 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 343 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 343 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 394 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 396 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 315 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 346 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 537 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 382 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 402 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 722 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 576 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 453 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 387 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 364 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 459 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 357 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 392 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 430 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 362 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 395 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 398 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 391 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 411 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 275 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 315 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 326 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 366 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 384 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 351 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 319 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 270 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 259 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 261 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 300 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 193 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 343 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 389 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 311 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 303 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 326 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 279 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 260 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 209 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 169 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 167 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 181 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 156 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 242 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 206 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 194 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 176 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 219 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 178 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 209 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 156 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 182 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 153 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 113 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 102 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 143 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 160 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 164 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 166 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 154 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 199 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 145 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 144 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 142 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 136 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 145 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 140 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 124 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 151 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 163 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 165 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 211 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 235 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 252 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 276 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 264 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 171 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 186 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 152 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 162 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 187 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 157 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 153 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 187 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 171 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 239 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 170 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 202 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 316 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 143 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 160 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 124 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 163 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 147 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 131 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53


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