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And around in circles the merry-go-round travels. One would have thought the number of times we've gone round on this we'd all be spewing our guts by now. Nevertheless, once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more.....


MS: So the full chain of hearsay is this:

Humphries Brewer → William Marchant Brewer → Helen Pattengill (née Brewer) → Walter’s mother → Walter M. Allen → Zecharia Sitchin

SC: What? Are you having a giggle here or what? Surely you jest? Surely you understand the difference between a primary source and secondary source? Who first wrote the words "Faint marks were repainted, some were new"? Was it Walter Allen or was it Sitchin? Yes, Stower - it was Walter Allen. Sitchin merely QUOTED Walter Allen. You do understand the difference, Stower, don't you? Of course you do:


"...By the way, despite the way you've quoted it, I didn't write the article." - Martin Stower

So, you clearly understand the difference between someone who WRITES an original piece (the original source) and someone who subsequently QUOTES that original source. Is it then the case on Planet Stower that anyone who QUOTES someone else is to be held responsible and accountable for the original quote? In short, is the person who delivers the message responsible for the content of the message? Am I responsible for something Hawass wrote simply because I presented his quote in my last book? Of course I am not and by your statement above, I do not believe you really do consider that to be the case either. So do tell us then, Stower, why do you insist that Sitchin is somehow responsible for something written entirely by someone else and which he (Sitchin) was merely the messenger (i.e. Sitchin was merely the person who made public Walter Allen's hitherto private notes)? Explain yourself.


MS: To complete your analogy:

The person who slips you the note is a known liar.

SC: Irrelevant because the "known liar" did not write the note. See above about primary and secondary sources.


MS: The known fraudster was never convicted of fraud.

SC: Charges were certainly leveled against him but he certainly wasn't formally convicted. However, he DID fraudulently secure for himself 932 votes in the 1807 election and, as such, he SHOULD have been convicted for it:


Vyse is known to have paid all but 78 of those who voted for him at the rate of £3 8s. for a plumper and £1 14s. for a split vote. - From your own link.

That's 932 crimes, 932 instances of electoral fraud, 932 fraudulent notes/votes. So, regardless of there not being a formal conviction (did partisan politics prevent Staple's Petition from succeeding as was often the case in those times? Did Tricky Dicky pay Staple to drop his Petition?), the evidence is very clear that Tricky Dicky was a fraudster nonetheless, a view you evidently share, to wit:


"Not that this lets him [Howard-Vyse] off the hook: it looks like the petition [of Philip Staple] should have succeeded." - Martin Stower

SC: I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment and I am sure many others will too. With the benefit of historical perspective, Tricky Dicky has been found guilty as charged in the court of public opinion.


MS: The known fraudster was never caught passing dud banknotes.

SC: He certainly secured 932 fraudulent notes/votes - see your link above. With regards to the latest fraud allegations, the jury is still out.


MS: Experts say the banknotes he did pass are genuine.

SC: And incredulously they came to that conclusion without any forensic tests being done whatsoever. The experts simply accepted the fraudster on his word.


MS: The fraud of which there is some evidence is one perpetrated also by such well-known moral lepers as William Wilberforce and Lord Cochrane.

SC: Tricky-Dicky perpetrated fraud. See your own quote above, in which you imply such. All that is needed now is further evidence to either convict or exonerate him of the latest fraud allegation.


Post Edited (18-May-13 11:02)

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 1053 Dr. Troglodyte 10-May-13 20:14
William Wilberforce, crook 490 Martin Stower 11-May-13 12:17
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 458 Nejc 11-May-13 16:15
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 463 Merrell 11-May-13 18:36
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 461 Scott Creighton 12-May-13 11:27
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 539 Merrell 12-May-13 22:37
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 499 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 11:03
Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, excavator 410 Merrell 13-May-13 13:11
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 459 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 13:21
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 472 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:14
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 370 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:16
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 444 Merrell 14-May-13 09:41
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 454 Scott Creighton 14-May-13 09:47
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 458 Martin Stower 15-May-13 11:18
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 547 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 12:02
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 465 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:26
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 406 Scott Creighton 15-May-13 15:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 506 Martin Stower 16-May-13 09:55
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 446 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:04
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 440 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:34
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 384 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 10:43
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 447 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:00
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 517 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:09
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 454 Martin Stower 16-May-13 11:31
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 420 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 11:36
Re: Wilberforce, abolitionist; Vyse, 419 cladking 16-May-13 15:14
Re: What are they so afraid of? 501 Thunderbird 16-May-13 15:55
Re: What are they so afraid of? 451 cladking 16-May-13 21:40
Calling Dr. Schoch 519 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 16:04
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 525 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 16:26
Logbook doubts 434 Merrell 16-May-13 21:38
Re: Logbook doubts 494 Scott Creighton 16-May-13 22:46
Re: Logbook doubts 390 Merrell 16-May-13 23:25
Re: Logbook doubts 455 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 08:00
Re: Logbook doubts 449 Merrell 17-May-13 14:30
Re: Logbook doubts 437 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 14:56
Re: Logbook doubts 443 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:11
Re: Logbook doubts 430 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:53
Re: Logbook doubts 394 MJT 17-May-13 22:31
Re: Logbook doubts 485 Merrell 18-May-13 11:23
Re: Logbook doubts 537 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 12:10
Re: Logbook doubts 556 Martin Stower 20-May-13 17:54
Re: Logbook doubts 372 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 00:20
Re: Logbook doubts 452 Morten 21-May-13 09:03
Re: Logbook doubts 495 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:22
Re: Logbook doubts 494 Merrell 21-May-13 10:26
Re: Logbook doubts 421 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 10:35
Re: Logbook doubts 463 Merrell 21-May-13 13:46
Re: Logbook doubts 379 Morten 21-May-13 10:40
Re: Logbook doubts 463 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 11:04
Re: Logbook doubts 470 Morten 21-May-13 11:29
Re: Logbook doubts 490 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 12:04
Re: Logbook doubts 460 Morten 21-May-13 13:19
Re: Logbook doubts 534 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 13:33
Re: Logbook doubts 460 Merrell 21-May-13 14:16
Re: Logbook doubts 457 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:27
Re: Logbook doubts 501 Merrell 21-May-13 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 485 Morten 21-May-13 14:37
Re: Logbook doubts 451 Scott Creighton 21-May-13 14:54
Re: Logbook doubts 485 Morten 22-May-13 10:51
Re: Logbook doubts 514 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:13
Re: Logbook doubts 389 Audrey 22-May-13 02:20
Re: Logbook doubts 454 Morten 22-May-13 08:18
Re: Logbook doubts 416 Martin Stower 22-May-13 15:02
Re: Logbook doubts 427 Audrey 24-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 611 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:43
Re: Logbook doubts 345 Audrey 24-May-13 01:10
Re: Logbook doubts 387 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 13:15
Re: Logbook doubts 489 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 18:17
Re: Logbook doubts 481 Scott Creighton 10-Jun-14 22:01
Re: Logbook doubts 427 eyeofhorus33 10-Jun-14 22:15
Re:Khufu....Hyksos? 451 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 01:36
Re: Logbook doubts 446 Audrey 11-Jun-14 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 528 eyeofhorus33 11-Jun-14 22:18
Re: Logbook doubts 476 Audrey 12-Jun-14 21:22
Re: Logbook doubts 418 eyeofhorus33 12-Jun-14 22:20
Re: Logbook doubts 423 cladking 13-Jun-14 00:24
Re: Logbook doubts 408 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 22:53
Re: Logbook doubts 408 cladking 13-Jun-14 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 423 eyeofhorus33 13-Jun-14 23:48
Re: Logbook doubts 416 cladking 14-Jun-14 00:17
Re: Logbook doubts 443 Audrey 14-Jun-14 02:17
Re: Logbook doubts 481 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 11:44
Re: Logbook doubts 438 cladking 14-Jun-14 15:25
context and customs 389 Audrey 14-Jun-14 19:25
Re: context and customs 373 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:23
Re: Logbook doubts 454 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 21:29
Re: Logbook doubts 433 cladking 14-Jun-14 22:07
Re: Logbook doubts 423 eyeofhorus33 14-Jun-14 23:04
Re: Logbook doubts 449 cladking 15-Jun-14 00:29
Re: Logbook doubts 455 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 18:35
Re: Logbook doubts 430 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:56
Re: Logbook doubts 436 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 21:26
Language doubts 398 cladking 15-Jun-14 21:48
Re: Language doubts 401 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 22:05
Re: Language doubts 417 cladking 15-Jun-14 22:51
Re: Language doubts 418 Audrey 16-Jun-14 04:17
Re: Language doubts 465 cladking 16-Jun-14 04:51
Re: Logbook doubts 334 cladking 12-Jun-14 22:57
Re:doubts 438 Thunderbird 11-Jun-14 23:36
Re:doubts 401 Audrey 12-Jun-14 19:54
Moderator Notice 389 Hoppy 22-May-13 01:32
Re: Logbook doubts 382 Audrey 22-May-13 02:52
Re: Logbook doubts 363 Martin Stower 18-May-13 13:37
Re: Logbook doubts 426 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 14:01
Re: Logbook doubts 404 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:52
Re: Logbook doubts 406 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:16
Re: Logbook doubts 491 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:57
Re: Logbook doubts 421 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:51
Re: Logbook doubts 393 Martin Stower 20-May-13 18:25
Re: Logbook doubts 270 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:49
Re: Logbook doubts 453 Martin Stower 21-May-13 15:42
Re: Logbook doubts 415 HungryHun 17-May-13 15:20
Re: Conspired.... 432 Thunderbird 17-May-13 15:47
Re: Conspired.... 422 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:04
Re: Conspired.... 393 Thunderbird 17-May-13 23:17
Re: Conspired....inspire d by money 425 Ratcho 03-Jun-13 05:57
Re: Logbook doubts 361 Martin Stower 17-May-13 16:23
Re: Logbook doubts 426 HungryHun 17-May-13 16:28
Re: Logbook doubts 422 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:25
Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 402 LonelyAngel 29-May-13 14:41
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 372 Nejc 29-May-13 23:23
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 394 Merrell 30-May-13 09:25
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 443 Martin Stower 30-May-13 12:48
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 431 WINDINWATERS 30-May-13 14:40
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 328 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:00
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 386 WINDINWATERS 31-May-13 21:47
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 374 LonelyAngel 30-May-13 17:43
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 374 Martin Stower 31-May-13 18:24
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 434 cladking 01-Jun-13 03:28
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 421 Merrell 01-Jun-13 11:02
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 360 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:59
Re: Would you buy a used cartouche from this man? 375 LonelyAngel 03-Jun-13 20:47
Re: Logbook doubts 581 Martin Stower 17-May-13 15:51
Re: Logbook doubts 417 Scott Creighton 17-May-13 20:27
Re: Logbook doubts 441 Nejc 17-May-13 22:28
Re: Logbook doubts 798 Martin Stower 18-May-13 14:43
Re: Logbook doubts 659 Scott Creighton 18-May-13 17:12
Re: Logbook doubts 489 Merrell 19-May-13 16:43
Re: Logbook doubts 426 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 09:38
Re: Logbook doubts 392 Merrell 20-May-13 13:29
Re: Logbook doubts 521 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 13:58
Re: Logbook doubts 396 Merrell 20-May-13 14:55
Re: Logbook doubts 420 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 18:46
Re: Logbook doubts 459 HungryHun 20-May-13 22:02
Re: Logbook doubts 419 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:05
Re: Logbook doubts 435 sfbey 20-May-13 23:23
Re: Logbook doubts 430 Thanos5150 20-May-13 23:35
Re: Logbook doubts 434 sfbey 21-May-13 15:41
Moghrah 442 Merrell 21-May-13 18:09
Re: Logbook doubts 322 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 23:38
Re: Logbook doubts 346 Merrell 21-May-13 21:34
Re: Logbook doubts 351 Audrey 22-May-13 02:34
Re: Logbook doubts 397 Merrell 21-May-13 21:58
Re: Logbook doubts 419 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 10:42
Re: Logbook doubts 378 Merrell 22-May-13 11:43
Re: Logbook doubts 353 Sirfiroth 22-May-13 17:44
Re: Logbook doubts 302 Nejc 22-May-13 23:18
Re: Logbook doubts 298 cladking 23-May-13 00:51
Re: Logbook doubts 304 Merrell 23-May-13 08:41
Re: Logbook doubts 336 Martin Stower 20-May-13 19:19
Re: Logbook doubts 250 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 19:35
Re: Logbook doubts 377 Martin Stower 21-May-13 17:59
Moderator Warning 443 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:12
Moderator Warning 361 JonnyMcA 21-May-13 20:11
Re: exercise elementary caution about sources 331 Thunderbird 20-May-13 19:36
Re: Logbook doubts 369 Audrey 22-May-13 02:50
Re: Logbook doubts 317 Merrell 22-May-13 12:53
Re: Logbook doubts 291 Audrey 24-May-13 01:48
Moderator Caution 239 Hoppy 22-May-13 12:55
Re: Logbook doubts 209 Martin Stower 22-May-13 16:06
Re: Logbook doubts 209 Audrey 24-May-13 01:41
Re: Logbook doubts 209 Martin Stower 24-May-13 13:56
Re: Logbook doubts 187 Thunderbird 17-May-13 22:40
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 272 Thanos5150 16-May-13 19:41
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 238 Dr. Troglodyte 16-May-13 21:56
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 227 Thanos5150 16-May-13 23:11
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 208 Dr. Troglodyte 17-May-13 00:01
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 247 Thanos5150 17-May-13 00:30
Re: Calling Dr. Schoch 213 cladking 16-May-13 21:50
Moderator Caution 265 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:09
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 181 Martin Stower 13-May-13 16:53
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 218 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 17:40
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 213 Martin Stower 13-May-13 18:32
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 147 Scott Creighton 13-May-13 19:23
Moderator Caution #2 139 Hoppy 15-May-13 14:18
Re: William Wilberforce, crook 169 Martin Stower 15-May-13 14:52
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 203 Nejc 11-May-13 13:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 193 JonnyMcA 11-May-13 18:41
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 200 Audrey 12-May-13 07:59
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 181 JonnyMcA 12-May-13 09:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 230 HungryHun 12-May-13 13:00
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 173 HungryHun 13-May-13 12:46
Re: Caviglia's complaint.... 186 Thunderbird 13-May-13 16:20
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 180 HungryHun 13-May-13 19:36
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 169 Martin Stower 15-May-13 15:04
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 174 HungryHun 16-May-13 10:03
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 175 Martin Stower 16-May-13 10:47
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 156 Merrell 16-May-13 16:33
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 180 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:02
Re: If fake, then... what? 210 MJT 16-May-13 12:45
More Vyse wickedness 194 Martin Stower 18-May-13 15:14
Re: More Vyse wickedness 259 Scott Creighton 19-May-13 09:01
Re: More Vyse wickedness 264 Martin Stower 20-May-13 16:44
Re: More Vyse wickedness 286 Scott Creighton 20-May-13 17:56
Re: More Vyse wickedness 323 jamesglory 21-May-13 10:26
Re: More Vyse wickedness 299 Audrey 22-May-13 02:42
Moderator Caution 231 Hoppy 20-May-13 17:57
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 217 Audrey 14-Jun-14 21:11
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 182 cladking 14-Jun-14 21:49
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 195 Scott Creighton 15-Jun-14 00:13
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 215 eyeofhorus33 15-Jun-14 00:58
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 184 cladking 15-Jun-14 01:12
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 186 Sirfiroth 15-Jun-14 19:09
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 216 cladking 15-Jun-14 20:40
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 206 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:32
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 287 eyeofhorus33 16-Jun-14 18:38
Re: Audrey - How to photoshop a cartouche a la Vyse 200 Audrey 23-Jun-14 03:15
Australian Funeral 236 molder 15-Jun-14 05:03
Re: Australian Funeral 348 Audrey 16-Jun-14 03:56
Re: Australian Funeral 175 molder 16-Jun-14 12:06
Re: Australian Funeral 187 cladking 16-Jun-14 16:50
Re: Australian Funeral 161 Audrey 23-Jun-14 01:58
Re: Australian Funeral 213 molder 19-Jun-14 07:25
Re: Australian Funeral 181 molder 20-Jun-14 10:28
Re: Australian Funeral/North American Funeral 164 molder 22-Jun-14 06:53

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